Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[HexBolt8]

11 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

[Faster, Lola, Faster] This really isn't helped by the fact that the completion dialogue is buried fairly deep in the dialogue tree—you have to scroll to see it.

In my game the completion topic is the third line.  I'm guessing you have mods that add a good bit to the follower's topic window.

 

11 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I think a lot might depend on serendipity the first time a player encounters this event.

I think I'll add a one-time pop-up to clarify what's required.  Since pop-ups stop game time, that will also give the player a moment to think about what's happening on the first encounter with the event.

 

11 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Taping up the sign is definitely better than letting people continue running into the door, but it's best to fix the underlying problem.

I like the way the quest works.  ?

 

11 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

All together, maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't see what the motivation is for the current implementation, other than the status quo.

A town is obvious.  There's no need to tell the owner "I know where we are now" when that's quite clear.  But for landmarks, as I mentioned before, the player can decide if a map marker is a suitable landmark or not.  If it's not, the player can keep going.

 

Players can be broadly classified into two groups: Gamers, and Role Players.  Gamers tend to complete objectives as quickly & efficiently as possible.  A Gamer would probably head straight for the nearest map marker (even if that location hadn't been discovered yet on the playthrough).  Role Players tend to complete objectives in a manner that fits the character, the story, and the player's notions of fair and reasonable actions -- even if that means taking a longer route, or doing it inefficiently, or in a more challenging way.  The design accommodates Role Players by giving the player a choice.  A minor animal den in the middle of nowhere might be significant to a hunter but meaningless to a mage.  A Nord might recognize a ruin that he's never seen before based on lore, whereas a Breton visiting Skyrim might not.  If the quest auto completes on any map marker, no matter how trivial or inappropriate, the player would be obligated to detour around those locations to avoid prematurely ending the quest.

 

11 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I would just say that an absence of evidence for frustration is not the same as evidence of an absence of frustration.

A lot of people are pretty quick to complain if they don't like something.  It's the best gauge a mod author has.  It's true that some players are too shy, too apathetic, or blame a problem on their setup, or might be confused whether it's a feature, there are enough who will speak up.

 

11 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

[Regarding asking to have your hair changed back.]  It feels to me like the whole point of playing a mod like SLTR is to give up control to your mistress.

There are different aspects to loss of control.  Having to ask for something that you otherwise could have done yourself underscores loss of control.  The recent discussion of having to ask permission to sleep is in line with that.  An alternative approach would have the owner inform you when you're going to sleep, but that's likely to frustrate the human player.  Asking seems plenty submissive to me.  That process could be extended by allowing the owner to sometimes say "no, not yet", if that would interest players.  (Actually, that could be a good use of the under-utilized setting for owner rejects rule changes.)

Edited December 25, 2021 by HexBolt8

[HexBolt8]

3 hours ago, Dio021 said:

Punishment animations are cancelled after the player recieved a hit from a punishment Tool is that a feature or intended? 

Both actors are then freezed until timer runs out.

Your character is supposed to hold that pose until the whipping ends, so that part is normal.  If the owner freezes, that's not intended.  I've never seen this myself, but others have.  The whipping scene is actually handled by ZAP, not directly by this mod.  I don't know what would cause the owner to freeze until the scene ends.

 

20 minutes ago, CaptainJ03 said:

about time lag while kneeling down/standing up. It works instantly when you're bearfooted, but takes its sweet time with heels.

Yes, it's the high heels fix that I added to kneeling a few versions back.  If you find it unhelpful, in SexLab's MCM (not this mod's MCM) you can turn off the "Clear High Heel's Height" option,

 

It's possible that high-heel handling plus the optional slot unequipping is what's bugging out the 5-second kneel, but I have no solution for that (other than removing the 5-second kneel).

 

20 minutes ago, CaptainJ03 said:

Even longer with oldschool HDT High Heels, on some occasions I have to remove my boots and put them on again to not be sunken in the floor.

I borrowed SexLab's own code for this.  I'm not sure what I can do to improve things.  If you notice a pattern for when it works well and when it doesn't, maybe I can do something.

Edited December 25, 2021 by HexBolt8

[maxsteiner]

Quick question, I'm on V 20.38. How to upgrade? Do I just install the new one over the old version, or do I have to uninstall first and do a clean save? Sorry if this has been asked before. Just love this mod.

[HexBolt8]

6 hours ago, maxsteiner said:

I'm on V 20.38. How to upgrade?

Just install over the old version.  Rarely, if a quest changed a lot, you might have to complete it before installing an update.  If so, I will note that in bold red text in the update notes.  Nothing like that has happened since version 2.0.38.

[HexBolt8]

14 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Isn't "kneeling" always just a "basic pose"?

No.  First, there's the kneeling angle fix, assuming that it's enabled.  That's fairly minor.  Next, there's unequipping armor in up to three slots, if the player set that up in the MCM.  This has to get the armor by slot number, which not fast (and one of the reasons for capping the number of such slots at three).  Last, there's the high heels fix.  Unless the player turned that off in SexLab's MCM, that's another slot check and some node transformations.  The reverse of the latter two gets performed when the kneeling ends a few seconds later.  I'm classifying this as one of those cool ideas that just didn't work.

 

14 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

...it's easy for humans to get trapped into certain patterns of looking at things, and having outsiders come in and bounce ideas around can help to come up with new solutions...

Exactly.  Even if I disagree with an idea, it might influence my thinking for something else, or be the basis for polishing or adjusting an existing feature.  Speaking of that, when I was adjusting the "Faster, Lola, Faster" quest tonight, I came up with changes to make it a little easier to complete at a landmark, with a series of upper-left-corner notifications to talk to your owner.  It's not what you requested, but it should now be very clear how to end the quest there if you want to, without even needing an annoying pop-up.

 

Spoilers for 100 score event:

 

Spoiler

14 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

How about a little ceremony just with the Playmate if you have one?  I just feel like putting the tag on Lola's collar should be a bigger moment, with at least a modicum of pomp involved.  

I have a note to have the PC kneel (not necessarily in the next update).  For now, the event still feels complete to me, especially considering the goal of being vague toward the owner's personality and attitude.  It could be expanded at some point, but I think I'd like to work on other things now.

 

14 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

[Tattoo]  Well, as long as it's optional, isn't it a win-win?

Within that context, a tattoo could fit the mod.  However, the part that's not a win is (just being candid) is my desire to work on it.  I'd have to figure out how to make it work, then build and test it -- a feature that I might never use myself.  If I just don't want to work on something, I'll probably push back on even a good suggestion, usually by adding it to my list of possible future work with no promises.  I'm going to do that here and add this as a possible enhancement with no planned timeframe.

 

14 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

[Tattoos]  If you're choosing this path while talking to Mistress in the initial "Tagged" conversation, then there's a break between that dialogue and when you talk to the smith.

After thinking about it further, I agree.  There are ways to help the player not be blindsided by a possible tattoo choice.

 

Edited December 26, 2021 by HexBolt8

[maxsteiner]

4 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Just install over the old version.  Rarely, if a quest changed a lot, you might have to complete it before installing an update.  If so, I will note that in bold red text in the update notes.  Nothing like that has happened since version 2.0.38.

Good to hear my friend. My poor Lola thanks you,

[Antiope_Apollonia]

20 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

It's possible that high-heel handling plus the optional slot unequipping is what's bugging out the 5-second kneel, but I have no solution for that (other than removing the 5-second kneel).

I'm pretty sure I can rule that out as the cause of the kneeling breaking dialogue.  I wasn't using either of those options when I was testing.  Antiope doesn't wear anything to strip—I've never touched that MCM setting—and I don't even have HDT Heels or Racemenu High Heels or anything installed.  Something something here about "women in comfortable shoes." ? I do have the kneeling angle fix enabled, and of course the better kneeling animation.  

Edited December 26, 2021 by Antiope_Appolonia

[ThePopato]

I've been testing the Careless Hands quest lately, and I can't seem to get it to trigger automatically. The follower just doesn't register that I hit them during combat. I also tried starting the quest through the console. There I got the dialogue to trigger and the restraints equipped, but the quest just completed automatically and the restraints are stuck in my inventory. Would greatly appreciate suggestions and/or fixes. Thanks in advance.

 

EDIT: Also, the text for 'Master' randomly appears as lowercase instead of properly capitalized. Not sure what's causing this.

Edited December 26, 2021 by ThePopato

[Talesien]

3 hours ago, ThePopato said:

I've been testing the Careless Hands quest lately, and I can't seem to get it to trigger automatically. The follower just doesn't register that I hit them during combat. I also tried starting the quest through the console. There I got the dialogue to trigger and the restraints equipped, but the quest just completed automatically and the restraints are stuck in my inventory. Would greatly appreciate suggestions and/or fixes. Thanks in advance.

Have you tried hitting your Mistress out of combat? Does that fail to trigger punishment as well?
Also are you sure you don't have other mods that either catch that occurrence (Deviously Enslaved for example) or prevent friendly fire from the get go (for example included in Nethers Follower Framework)?

[CaptainJ03]

4 hours ago, ThePopato said:

I've been testing the Careless Hands quest lately, and I can't seem to get it to trigger automatically. The follower just doesn't register that I hit them during combat. I also tried starting the quest through the console. There I got the dialogue to trigger and the restraints equipped, but the quest just completed automatically and the restraints are stuck in my inventory. Would greatly appreciate suggestions and/or fixes. Thanks in advance.

The careless hands aren't easy to trigger, you need to hit your owner more than once in battle, and i.e. in NFF you can turn off damage to your own party. Best choice here is something magical like fire with cost per second, because that hits (at least) once per second.

[HexBolt8]

5 hours ago, ThePopato said:

the text for 'Master' randomly appears as lowercase instead of properly capitalized.

Skyrim's design caches strings.  If it first encountered "Master" as "master", it will remember it that way.  This is probably what you're seeing.

 

59 minutes ago, CaptainJ03 said:

The careless hands aren't easy to trigger, you need to hit your owner more than once in battle

That's right.  By design, in combat, the owner ignores a single hit.  After that hit, you're on probation for 30 seconds.  Another hit during that period and you've earned punishment.  (Healing your owner with restoration magic cancels a hit and ends probation, if it's done before the second hit happens.)  Punishment duration increases with the number of hits.

 

5 hours ago, ThePopato said:

I've been testing the Careless Hands quest lately, and I can't seem to get it to trigger automatically.

Outside of combat, any hit results in immediate punishment.  As Talesien and CaptainJ03 said, you might have friendly fire disabled in your game.

[ThePopato]

Thank you for the replies. My follower does take damage when I hit them, and multiple times at that, even though I use NFF.

 

Also, the punishment with the whipping plays out with no issues, but the quest itself does not trigger.

[HexBolt8]

17 minutes ago, ThePopato said:

the punishment with the whipping plays out with no issues, but the quest itself does not trigger.

That's the punishment for an out of combat hit.  The quest is for multiple hits in combat.

[ThePopato]

My bad, though I'm still confused as to why the combat quest won't trigger. Does it have something to do with SkySA, perhaps?

[HexBolt8]

11 minutes ago, ThePopato said:

My bad, though I'm still confused as to why the combat quest won't trigger. Does it have something to do with SkySA, perhaps?

I don't know.  Another mod might be interfering with friendly fire.  A couple of whacks with a sword triggers it for me.

[ThePopato]

I guess I'll just start testing again. Sorry to take up your time, thanks a bunch for the help. Just one final question, there's no minimum submission score required for this event, right? 

[HexBolt8]

10 hours ago, ThePopato said:

there's no minimum submission score required for this event, right? 

That's right.  For your testing, the player must be in combat.  It's not enough for just the follower to be.  I like to run past a mud crab, which then pursues me, a clear indication that I'm in combat.  I'll then double back and strike the follower a few times before the follower can hit and kill the mud crab.  That leads to a force-greeting conversation when all combat ends.

 

When you're looking for possible conflicting mods, remember that not all mods have esp files.  Some are just SKSE plugins, so they can be easy to forget after you've installed them.

[ThePopato]

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try it soon. I've just been clearing bandit ruins and striking my follower and hoping I get lucky. I just really hope I don't have to uninstall SkySA.

[shiagwen]

Just to say, i dont have any problems with whipping, even with zaz 6.11. i just need my selfbrew potion to get 666hp for 3 minutes.

 

can the pc fail the prostitution quota ?  Should be. And get a punishment. Actually i think it is not possible.  How shall that go ? A random % slider in mcm opens in case a window  that you cant go on (because of ....opposing prostitute, pain, no clients around,  Guards, ....)

[ThePopato]

The problem wasn't with the out of combat punishment, but with the combat friendly fire punishment. I got the quest to fire properly by manually setting the relevant FriendlyFireCount variable through the console.

 

Incidentally, @HexBolt8, apologies for the ping, but is it possible for you to share the code fragment that allows said variable to increment, along with its location? I checked the mod's script source files myself, and couldn't find where exactly it happened. Keep in mind I know very little about Papyrus and the CK.

 

I think seeing the code would help me figure out exactly what's going wrong on my end. Thanks in advance.

[HexBolt8]

3 hours ago, shiagwen said:

can the pc fail the prostitution quota ?

No.  You just can't leave town until you do.

 

58 minutes ago, ThePopato said:

is it possible for you to share the code fragment that allows said variable to increment, along with its location?

It's in vkjowneralias, the OnHit event.

[Straze]

I am unsure if it is a bug, but after starting the Lola quest the collar placed on me is not visible within the Inventory, thus causing issues when a Cursed Loot event triggers that requires temporary removal of the Collar to unlock (body suits etc). 

 

I checked MCM and tried to find a solution on the forums but I haven't yet found one. 

 

Is this intentional? 

 

Collar seems to be a Padded one.

[bnub345]

@HexBolt8 Have you looked at how Sanguine's Debauchery handles kneeling? It binds a hotkey for entering/exiting the kneeling pose. You might be able to implement that for SLTR and avoid the issues with the kneeling power or the 5 second timer.

[HexBolt8]

11 minutes ago, Straze said:

after starting the Lola quest the collar placed on me is not visible within the Inventory

This mod uses standard Devious Devices collars for its list of collar choices.  If you're using a version of Devious Devices older than 4.3, that could be a problem and I recommend updating.  It's also possible that you received that collar some time previously in your game, and its invisible part wasn't later removed from your inventory when it should have been, causing that collar to be bugged.  Mods that strip you by simply using RemoveAllItems will bug devious devices.

 

You can work around the problem by equipping your own collar before starting that event.  This mod will detect that you're already collared and not give you another one.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

1 hour ago, Straze said:

I am unsure if it is a bug, but after starting the Lola quest the collar placed on me is not visible within the Inventory, thus causing issues when a Cursed Loot event triggers that requires temporary removal of the Collar to unlock (body suits etc). 

Were you wearing a collar or something else that occupies that slot when you were enslaved?  My guess would be you had the single item padded steel full set equipped, perhaps, which occupies the collar slot but isn't actually a collar item?  SLTR will give you a collar—just which collar being configurable in the MCM → Devices—when you're enslaved if you're not wearing one, but if you are, then instead Mistress says she's attaching something to your existing collar, and the mod recognises whatever collar you're wearing.  I'd guess that wearing a collar that isn't a dedicated collar could cause you issues.  

Edited December 28, 2021 by Antiope_Appolonia