Joyful Followers

[Elgate]

I also found a bit of incompatibility ?
My follower asked to try the headless chicken challenge, which I obliged. Issue is it's considered as a debuff for some reason. Another of my follower (A wench from Yurianna Buxo wench) seems to always remove the debuff with a spell. So I end up with no cloak of flame to finish the dungeon.

[Scrab]

On 10/3/2021 at 9:55 PM, Elgate said:

I also found a bit of incompatibility ?

The spell is based on the Vanilla Flamecloak Spell and I didnt really see anything that should make your Follower react to it

 

Does this also happen with the Vanilla Cloaks? or is it only this one?

[Elgate]

6 hours ago, Scrab said:

The spell is based on the Vanilla Flamecloak Spell and I didnt really see anything that should make your Follower react to it

 

Does this also happen with the Vanilla Cloaks? or is it only this one?

 

So, I added an image showing how it treats it as a debuff.

On the other hand, I think I was mistaken. I have Ocato's recital setup. With the Soul cloak spell from apocalypse. You can only have one cloak spell at a time. So whenever I enter combat, I get the soul cloak, which then disable flamecloak.

My bad, I get the spells from the wenches at the beginning of fights as well, so they both happened at the same time. I completely forgot I was running that spell, it's only when I saw the animation that I realized.

[monsta88]

Hi Scrab,

 

I have this mod in my current game and I'm over 100 hours in. It is the 1st time I tried it, here is some feedback:

 

I use 2B as a follower from Nier Automata Characters mod. She was with me most of the time. Event chance 100%, CD 6 hours. I also have the Deviously Joyful installed.

 

1) The Affection gain seems very slow. I could reach level 3 only during this time. Then I got bored and just consoled a couple of hundred diamonds to increase it.

 

2) The follower does very little. She initiated only a couple of My cut events (I think 3 times, during the 100 hours) and that was it. When asked to do something, she is up for drinking only when I have booze in the inv, she does not suggest anything else.

2B) The My cut event fired even after I disabled it in MCM (and the My Fair Share too, so I'm not confusing them). I TAB-ed out of dialogue, dropped my money except 1 gold somewhere, then talked to her again and gave her everything (1 gold). She was happy.

 

3) The Deviously Joyful part seemed to work fine. She found some keys, she sometimes helped my character out of some restraints. Her minigames worked as well.

 

Overall I expected more events, interaction from the follower.

 

[Scrab]

2 hours ago, monsta88 said:

Overall I expected more events, interaction from the follower.

Thats the primary reason why its a Beta. Im aware that the original goals I had with this mod were unrealistic, especially because my library is constantly growing and thus individual mods can be focused on less

 

The next Beta is intended to complete Harshnils Story & do some internal restructuring to tune down the Scale of the mod a bit but as you can probably guess, Harshnil alone wont suddenly make the mod feel "full" or "complete" which is an issue this mod will always kind of have until its like.. really big

 

The amount of Affection you get is also depended on the amount of Events that start. Thus the more Events that are added the faster Affection will Level Up too, but currently with so little Events it can be quite a while until you level up

Edited November 5, 2021 by Scrab

[monsta88]

3 hours ago, Scrab said:

Thats the primary reason why its a Beta.

 

I misunderstood it, since I read it as 4.x Beta, instead of Beta 4

I took the time now to read the Spoiler sections of the description page. There is a lot more content than the MCM suggests, I just didn't find it in the game. Some seems a bit hard to trigger, like the Below the College, as I usually don't have that much salts.

 

Anyway, I difinitely visit those places.

[monsta88]

On 11/5/2021 at 4:39 PM, monsta88 said:

I took the time now to read the Spoiler sections of the description page. There is a lot more content than the MCM suggests, I just didn't find it in the game. Some seems a bit hard to trigger, like the Below the College, as I usually don't have that much salts.

 

Anyway, I definitely visit those places.

 

I visited 3 places with my rank 5 follower and made sure I have the requirements. Unfortunately none of those quest fired, or maybe I just did not notice them.

 

I went to the Bee and barb and found a new quest, but then it turned out it was from Yps fashion. I went to that monument near the vampire mill (N of Falkreath). Nothing happened. Now I am at Winterhold, all the required items in my inventory. Nothing again, although the quest says it has 60% chance to fire.

 

I am unsure how these event should start. Do the follower forcegreets me?

 

I do remember that once I saw a new line in the follower dialogue, but I was busy with something else and didn't click on it. Unfortunately I don't remember what it was, it was very long ago.

 

[Scrab]

1 hour ago, monsta88 said:

Do the follower forcegreets me?

Not always. Sometimes its not the Follower starting the Event but a surrounding NPC and sometimes you really only get that one line of Dialogue or the Follower wanders off on their own. If you ignore those then you might skip the Event and some Events can only fire once per save

 

You also need to make sure that "Event Chance" is set to 100 if you want to forcetrigger them

[JohnSmith54]

Have constant effect "Damage speechcraft"

You are tired, your speechcraft is decreased by <mag>. Persuasion and Intimidation are more difficult.

It's impossible to remove with sleep or recyceactor command.

 

Why mod author use such nasty mechanics? LL mods tends to put such debuts, maybe someone thinks it will be fun for users to debug this.

 

[HeckinBestBork]

On 11/21/2021 at 8:03 PM, JohnSmith54 said:

Have constant effect "Damage speechcraft"

You are tired, your speechcraft is decreased by <mag>. Persuasion and Intimidation are more difficult.

It's impossible to remove with sleep or recyceactor command.

 

Why mod author use such nasty mechanics? LL mods tends to put such debuts, maybe someone thinks it will be fun for users to debug this.

 

That effect is applied when your "fatigue" is above a certain amount. I don't know the amount exactly, but you can look in the MCM to see your fatigue and if it's not "Wake" then the debuff will be applied. Sleeping reduces your fatigue by an amount determined by the number of hours slept. It does not simply reset your fatigue to 0 when you sleep. If the effect remains after you've slept, then your fatigue is still too high. Check the MCM after sleeping to see how much your fatigue changed. If it didn't change at all, then there may be some other mod that is affecting the sleep trigger, or you have too many scripts running during the sleep event and the script event for reducing fatigue is being dropped. The latter is pretty unlikely, but it's not impossible. As for the effect itself, it seems pretty minor to me. A mere 5 Speech decrease at "Sleepy" - I presume more if your fatigue increases further, but I've haven't had that happen yet - is hardly debilitating.

[Krynn]

I had a question, my character crawls as soon as I loaded the mod. I have a collar on. Is there any way to turn this off?

[pihwht]

On 11/23/2021 at 5:19 AM, HeckinBestBork said:

That effect is applied when your "fatigue" is above a certain amount. I don't know the amount exactly, but you can look in the MCM to see your fatigue and if it's not "Wake" then the debuff will be applied. Sleeping reduces your fatigue by an amount determined by the number of hours slept. It does not simply reset your fatigue to 0 when you sleep. If the effect remains after you've slept, then your fatigue is still too high. Check the MCM after sleeping to see how much your fatigue changed. If it didn't change at all, then there may be some other mod that is affecting the sleep trigger, or you have too many scripts running during the sleep event and the script event for reducing fatigue is being dropped. The latter is pretty unlikely, but it's not impossible. As for the effect itself, it seems pretty minor to me. A mere 5 Speech decrease at "Sleepy" - I presume more if your fatigue increases further, but I've haven't had that happen yet - is hardly debilitating.

I've been playing survival mode, and JF starts giving me speech debuffs after about three hours of wakefulness while I'm still in the well-rested state. It started at 0 though I got a debuff from sleepy for about half an hour. Woke up at midnight. Ate till well-fed, made some potions, enchanted a couple of bows, went outside and collected some ingredients. By 3:00, I was past my peak. Don't object to debuffs, but this seems a little generous. I think I remember that wake was up to around 4.

Edited December 5, 2021 by pihwht

[Scrab]

On 11/25/2021 at 9:48 AM, Krynn said:

I had a question, my character crawls as soon as I loaded the mod. I have a collar on. Is there any way to turn this off?

Sounds like the Pet Collar which is a punishment and if it would just "get equipped" by loading a save Id have a lot more people here complaining. You prbly took some sort of punishment game

 

 

[Scrab]

Regarding the Sleep Debuff

 

I think its pretty obvious for anyone who played this mod a little that the mod is somewhat lacking in terms of content. This has 2 reasons:

1. Since I started writing those mods now roughly 18 months ago, I came a long way and went from this single project that was barely more than a single poorly written dialogue tree to a total of 7, with 5 of them being what I consider large scale projects which will need continuous updates for a very long time. SLUTS in particular is a gigantic mod that none of you can even imagine the scale of just yet, but even mods like Yamete or Alternate Perspective, and Joyful Followers of course, are mods that need a lot of content to make them feel somewhat finished. My time as a lone author is limited and I do have to admit sometimes I just wanna start a game and not look at the CK or VSC for a couple of hours or a day even :^) .. and I cant focus on all projects at once. This is also one of the more meaningful reasons why I started my patreon; I wanted to make sure to have a better overview of what Projects people want me to focus on
2. The entire structure JF is designed with is extremely complicated and grande. When I first designed those systems I was unexperienced and unaware of where exactly I want to go with this whole authoring in general. This design isnt feasible for a single author to properly utilize - especially not when that single author is someone everyones making jokes about that they got too many large scale projects on their constantly growing list. JF has this behind the Scenes flag System, Affection, Mental, Tiredness, 10 different Cooldowns and a sheer endless amount of Fragment Scripts because I thought its fun to script every 2nd answer or something. All those divions require a lot of content to get right, especially if most mods just arent meant to be entirely radiant and instead depend on the area youre currently in, and the items in your inventory

As such, and because most are probably going to use the Survival Mode from CK in one way or another, I will look into removing the Tiredness Debuff with the next update (which will be whenever the mod wins on my patreon polls) and see how I can properly redesign the mental state as well. In general a large focus of the next update(s) will be to trimm down the scale of the mod, ideally in a way that is invisible to you as the user - will only simplify the structure without harming the mods integrity and sense of progression

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Scrab

[Krynn]

9 hours ago, Scrab said:

Sounds like the Pet Collar which is a punishment and if it would just "get equipped" by loading a save Id have a lot more people here complaining. You prbly took some sort of punishment game

 

 

 

I still do not understand, as I install the mod and then load, my character kneels. no matter whether I wear a DD item or not.

I just started a completely new game, with the same effect, even without a companion.

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Krynn

[pihwht]

15 hours ago, Scrab said:

 

 

 

1. Since I started writing those mods now roughly 18 months ago, I came a long way and went from this single project that was barely more than a single poorly written dialogue tree to a total of 7, with 5 of them being what I consider large scale projects which will need continuous updates for a very long time. SLUTS in particular is a gigantic mod that none of you can even imagine the scale of just yet, but even mods like Yamete or Alternate Perspective, and Joyful Followers of course, are mods that need a lot of content to make them feel somewhat finished. My time as a lone author is limited and I do have to admit sometimes I just wanna start a game and not look at the CK or VSC for a couple of hours or a day even :^) .. and I cant focus on all projects at once. This is also one of the more meaningful reasons why I started my patreon; I wanted to make sure to have a better overview of what Projects people want me to focus on
2. The entire structure JF is designed with is extremely complicated and grande. When I first designed those systems I was unexperienced and unaware of where exactly I want to go with this whole authoring in general. This design isnt feasible for a single author to properly utilize - especially not when that single author is someone everyones making jokes about that they got too many large scale projects on their constantly growing list. JF has this behind the Scenes flag System, Affection, Mental, Tiredness, 10 different Cooldowns and a sheer endless amount of Fragment Scripts because I thought its fun to script every 2nd answer or something. All those divions require a lot of content to get right, especially if most mods just arent meant to be entirely radiant and instead depend on the area youre currently in, and the items in your inventory

As such, and because most are probably going to use the Survival Mode from CK in one way or another, I will look into removing the Tiredness Debuff with the next update (which will be whenever the mod wins on my patreon polls) and see how I can properly redesign the mental state as well. In general a large focus of the next update(s) will be to trimm down the scale of the mod, ideally in a way that is invisible to you as the user - will only simplify the structure without harming the mods integrity and sense of progression

 

 

Large, complicated, lots of fun, crazy to test. Thank you.

[o0shamus0o]

is there anything wrong with the pet collar punishment as its not making my character walk on all fours or anything just equips to my character thats it nothing else did i install it incorrectly?

[KingdomVelvet]

don't know if this is a known bug, or if it's even unrelated, but at time, the dialogue is skipped or pass too quickly, so I don't have the time to read it

[Scrab]

On 12/26/2021 at 5:25 AM, KingdomVelvet said:

don't know if this is a known bug, or if it's even unrelated, but at time, the dialogue is skipped or pass too quickly, so I don't have the time to read it

Get Fuz Ro Doh

 

 

[Scrab]

Got some good news.. I guess

 

Joyful Followers be updated next \o/

 

Beta 5 (Im not sure how many Betas there will be btw) will focus on a few things:

 

1. Updating Internals

I think this is something I marked as the "big thing" in most previous updates and Im certain its no secret anymore that I put large effort into making sure things are properly structured :^)

This time, I want to make sure that for one I can create some sort of Framework, allowing other mods to create their own Quests for JF. This includes making a proper API and building out the Event Node Structure JoyFols uses to start its Events. I hope that with this, the mod can get some more recognition even with me neglecting it and you guys should be able to properly shape where the mod is going (even if just one single quest) without me having to turn you down cause reasons

 

Another thing I want to do is rethinking how exactly Events start in JF, talking about the requirements right now. Currently there are 16 Quests in this mod but most of them are very specific and hard to get. Even the ones whch seem to have rather easy conditioning are affected by this, for example: How often do you guys sleep in the Wild under Stars in your game? Originally the Scale I was planning on was slightly larger than it is now, that was before I started working on SLUTS and Yamete and some smaller (N)SFW mods. Now I simply dont got the time to make 100+ Events to make sure you can always trigger some

Still, I want to keep the mod surprising and random to a certain extend so some Events such as "Traitor!" will still feel very random and surprising and I also want to avoid forcing you to gulping down the same Events 50 times per playthrough. The goal is to generalize Events more, allowing the Events that are already here to be easier to trigger and make it overall easier to add new Events to JF without first having to get a feeling on how exactly the mod actually works without however causing the same Events to be fired every 2 hours. This goes back to "I want you to be able to make your own Events for this mod" <- this wont work if I keep starting Conditions as complicated as they are right now

 

Next would be Affection. Im personally happy with the scaling Affection has. Im fully aware that Scaling is slow right now but I believe a major reason for this is the lack of Events playing. While Affection is gained over time and through the Present System, the primary income of  Affection is supposed to come through Events but if you never get to play any then you will also never properly progress through Affection. Hence I believe this issue is more a placebo created by the lack of Events

What I do want to note here however is something regarding Affection Lv5. I originally planned to have Lv5 to include some big changes in the followers persona but as it stands i simply dont have the time for it, not even being able to regularly include some new base Events. As a consequence Level 5 Affection will most certainly be removed

Next to lowering the content floor for this mod to feel at least semi finished, it will also further simplify the overall structure, allowing others to create their own Quests more easily (I shouldve proposed a drinking game here huh?). It will also give the mod overall a more casual feeling as anything even remotely extreme will be kept out the mod and the follower will stay this kinda silly fooling around persona that I assume is the reason most of you are here for anyway (or well, you should)

 

Last but not least we also got different Adult Frameworks. I do this in 2 mods now and I see no reason why JF should be an exception, I will remove the hard dependency on SexLab. However because of recent Events regarding the OProject, I will only remove the dependency. How and when another Frame will be added I dont know yet but I hope you understand that I currently dont feel like integrating a certain framework is a sufficient investment of time

 

2. Harshnil the Coward

This is JFs first big quest and as with anything in this mod from B5 forward, I will have to cut it down. Originally I wanted those Quests to build up over time and have 5+ Parts involved in it, Ive written out the Story now though and while theres still a lot you don't know about Harshnil, the total amount of Quests will be closer to 3 or 4, the first one of which you already got in your game

Originally I wanted to aim at roughly 2 hours of content, by how things are going currently the content will be close to 1 hour

 

I want to take another look at how the Quest starts and try to make it more reliable to get into this Quest to not miss it by accident and improve Harshnils daily schedule after you save him

My plan is to be completely done with his storyline by Beta 5, so with the next Update when you talk to him you should be able to start the next Quest and figure out some more about him. The grande finale of Harshnils Story will continue to be in its own mini dungeon and telling you even more would be considered a spoiler, so I stop now ?

 

3. Below the College

This is one of the newer Events and yet probably the largest one the mod has thus far and its not done! Below the College is actually supposed to have 3 endings, depending on how experienced your Follower is with Conjuration *cough, cough*

I want to add the remaining 2 Events with Beta 5. Not much else to say ?

 

=

 

No ETA on when Beta 5 wil be released

[Scrab]

A quick note here:

I made this topic here yesterday. While its not exclusively important to JF one of the main reasons why I got to asking that question was because I wanted to think more about the math behind the affection system and how to distribute it across your playthrough - how fast it scales and how much should be required for certain points

 

Id appreciate if you could take the 2min to write up a post there or at least answer the poll. would help me a lot to properly distribute affection levels  

 

---------------------------------

 

Regarding the next Beta there will be some big changes with Fatigue and Mental. To be precise: Those two stats will be removed entirely

Back then I felt that a lot of different Stats are necessary to properly distribute content and Im not gonna talk about this a whole lot again as I already covered this in the post above. Important is that JF isnt a Needs mod and I dont think it offers a lot of benefit in tracking this Stat in depth. I will keep tracking when exactly you slept last and give leads to how interpret them if someone wants to create an addon to JF around this "tiredness" idea but Fatigue as an actual Stat will be removed and will lose all influence on gameplay

Mental is a Stat to reflect the followers "well being" or "how angry they are" and I introduced a "leave token system" in the past iteration which kind of does the same just more punishing. Both of those Stats will be merged into a new one called "Severity" which I hope will give Mental and actual meaning:

 

Severity will be a Stat that can stack when you either actively harm your Follower or you insult them - this is NOT a stat to reflect the follower submission. Severity itself will be divided in 3 Segments:

The first Segment - which is where you start in (and ideally never leave) - will be this current Follower you know where nothing punishing is really happenin

The second Segment is the new part added in the new Beta and this will host a set of new Events which were previously reserved for high Mental. They will overwrite normal Events

The final Segment is what you currently know where the Follower either leaves or glitches out in a never ending "..." forcegreet (which I still dont know why that is)

 

Before those Leave Tokens felt like a black & white thing where once you got one token too much things just "shut down", Mental on the other hand felt rather pointless, a random number with an "imaginary purpose". Severity will properly implement Mental and make add some grey into the Leave Token System (which will also be removed if that wasnt clear yet)

The way this System will work is like a "multi level filter" perhaps. Imagine 3 layers put on top of each other and every time an Event may start you place it on the top level where it falls through. The higher layers will have more "punishing" Events, in the form of the "OnHit" or the Follower calling for Guards Event. The higher your Severity is, the more likely itll be that an Event call will be stuck on one of those "higher layers". With enough Events what this will create is a self managing, easily expandable System that will cause "expensive" or "impressive" Events like Below the College become rarer and rarer as their Event Calls will be overwritten by Severity Events

This will cause the amount of Events played to not decrease, allowing the Follower to be always active - avoiding to make the mod "stale" - while with you while still expressing this idea of the follower being angry and not liking what youre doing, making the whole system much more dynamic and easy to expand

 

Lastly I also streamlined all the numbers which in case you are interested in helping me filling JFs library should help you out massively to properly manage the affection system and other Stats. You no longer need to know if adding 10 or 15 or 25 Affection is appropriate because you will just add it based on a pre defined purpose which should hopefully cover all instances where Affection should be added. The same goes for any other variable (those that are left that is)

So if youre having some super cool ideas for follower Events but dont know how to implement them, JF will hopefully be able to offer a very simple entry point into its own library without forcing you to first learn and understand all the numbers  

 

[donttouchmethere]

On 1/1/2022 at 11:38 AM, Scrab said:

Got some good news.. I guess

 

Joyful Followers be updated next \o/

 

Beta 5 (Im not sure how many Betas there will be btw) will focus on a few things:

 

Scrab thinking hard about the next beta be like:

Spoiler

 

 

[henryhowardholmes]

I'm rather confused on what causes my follower to be locked out.

I knew I had a debt to my follower after I cleared a dungeon, but I knew it wasn't big because I had overpaid him recently and this was the first time he had mentioned it. I fast travel to a city to get rid of loot and when I go to pay my follower he's locked out and will only give me 3 options. Wait, trade, part ways. Confused, I tried all 3 options and when I chose part ways, he took -ALL- my gold(around 5000) and left, now he won't speak to me at all.

 

If this is an intended mechanic, I'm not complaining, but I feel like this is not working as intended.

 

A secondary issue is that my PAHE slaves seem to be locked out as well(probably cause I whip them every now and then and they hate me). I figured I need to used the debug options of all of them but that seems... tiresome. I'm content with putting PAHE aside for this playthrough to experience JF fully.

 

Bottomline questions:

1. What causes a lockout from follower interaction?

 

2. How long does the lockout last?

 

3. Would it be possible to offer a yes/no menu popup upon recruiting a follower to determine if JF applies or not? 

[Scrab]

1 hour ago, henryhowardholmes said:

I'm rather confused on what causes my follower to be locked out.

Good news in that regard: That System will be removed with the next release

 

1 hour ago, henryhowardholmes said:

1. What causes a lockout from follower interaction?

iirc from when I removed this System:

1. Excessive Debt
2. Making the follower hate you
   1. Hitting them
   2. Being rude in JFs Dialogue options

1 hour ago, henryhowardholmes said:

2. How long does the lockout last?

Dunno anymore, I think it was a couple days or something? It was admittedly not all that great. Im looking back at some of the stuff I did last year and am kinda embarassed to put that out

Im sure Ill say the same thing next year, well see

 

1 hour ago, henryhowardholmes said:

3. Would it be possible to offer a yes/no menu popup upon recruiting a follower to determine if JF applies or not? 

I dont want that as it staggers gameplay, having that box randomly pop up. I guess I can however disable the auto recruit entirely through an MCM Option

Edited February 6, 2022 by Scrab

[henryhowardholmes]

On 2/6/2022 at 8:19 PM, Scrab said:

Good news in that regard: That System will be removed with the next release

 

iirc from when I removed this System:

1. Excessive Debt
2. Making the follower hate you
   1. Hitting them
   2. Being rude in JFs Dialogue options

The follower was with me for about 1(real) hour before he locked out, and I definitely didn't engage in friendly fire.

It did last a few days and the dialogue was unlocked. After that I could pay my debt and then I found out it was 69015 septims. 

The odd part is that this is a fresh playthrough and I had the debt model set to complex(15%), which if I understand correctly scaled based on the amount of gold you've earned. 

I most definitely did not collect 460k gold doing companion questlines. Am I misinterpreting that system?

 

EDIT:

Feedback on the fatigue system. I get that you can get super tired, but I had to sleep for 3 days straight to bring my fatigue back to 0.

If the scale is 0-100, perhaps make 1 hour of sleep take away 8 points of fatigue, so 13 hours of sleep would clear it? I'd say 13 hours of sleep would clear normal tiredness in real life as well.

 

EDIT2:

The punishment games are prone to breaking.

I played the gem guessing game at affection 2, and lost. I got a collar put on me which is fine. I crawled around for a few real hours while I started and completed the thieves guild questline. I felt that was too long but I did understand that this is meant to punish the player not the PC.

 

However, when I played it again, I got a gag put on me, and it basically made me uninstall this mod for my current playthrough cause it broke all my companions that would use this mod.

I spent about 3 real hours in that gag, going around doing what I can without speaking to anyone. My follower would not remove the gag at any point, even though she sometimes said something among the lines that it's almost time. I tried waiting for 7 days, she still wouldn't let me take it off. Tried sleeping for 7 days, Tried fast travelling between solitude and rifted about 6 times. I gave up and left the game running while I went to work for 8 hours. Got back and the game was still running just fine. Still wouldn't take it off. I bit the bullet and tried to remove it myself with a few attempts and ended up picking the lock. 

 

After this it all went to shit. I talked to her, and she just put another gag on me. I tried waiting again for a few days and still nada. I decided to smack her until she left my service which she did. I went to recruit another follower that I had never recruited before and as soon as JF activated on them they acted like I had just removed the gag they put on me and gave me another one. 

 

Unfortunately I had to uninstall the mod as any follower I'd recruit would do the same thing. I like the idea of the mod and I'll definitely try the next version when it's out, but this one seems to be a bit too loose.

Edited February 8, 2022 by henryhowardholmes