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1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

However, you may want to unzip and apply the patch manually.

The patches are simply there, zipped up in the install bundle, There is no installer. 2.03 didn't have one.

i did....

 

and 2.03 has a fomod installer

i just used it....

 

but the original mod has a esp for the eff-patch, that your mod is missing....

but that esp is not in the EFF-patch file, its inside the 2.03 fomod installer...

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1 hour ago, MetZwerg said:

i did....

 

and 2.03 has a fomod installer

i just used it....

 

but the original mod has a esp for the eff-patch, that your mod is missing....

but that esp is not in the EFF-patch file, its inside the 2.03 fomod installer...

You might get away without the patch if you move DF above EFF in LO.

It's awhile tho that I tried EFF, totally NFF freak now.

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22 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

NFF is not something I will do anything for. If somebody produces a working DF patch for NFF I'll do my best to promote it though.

That's the good thing about NFF.

Just keep DF above NFF and all is fine.

In Fact I changed to NFF because it has less/notanyatall issues with DF if the LO is right.

 

The EFF patch was only relevant if DF needs to be below EFFdialoges for some reason as far as I understand it.

 

So far NFF evolves into something superior to EFF and AFT.

Even if it has a follower limit of 10.

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9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Having thought about this a bit more myself, I'm inclined to do the minimum to it.

  • Most people don't use Weird Potion.
  • Of those that do, the majority use the voluntary version.
  • If you use the forced version, you can still preempt it by volunteering.
  • If you use the forced version and let it play out, the difficult situation that arises is your problem.
  • If you don't want the forced version, then don't enable it.

Form where do you get always your "most ppl" statistics?

I always target the forced version ^^

I mean, who would want that voluntary? :classic_ph34r:

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2 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

Form where do you get always your "most ppl" statistics?

From the total lack of complaints about the problems with that version of the 'quest' on the old DF forum?

 

If you use the forced version regularly, how do you proceed once you're bound to a random NPC who is not your DF?

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I'm glad to see this is still being worked on! I do have one question... the weird potion thing, unforced, what are the requirements to get it to work?

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1 hour ago, MetZwerg said:

and 2.03 has a fomod installer

I made a poor choice of words there.

When I say there is no installer, I mean for 2.04.

2.03 does not need an installer, it has two downloads, one with, one without.

 

I never used the installer version, due to lack of need to install in German.

 

German translation for future versions of DF is not something I can solve. If somebody wants to do that I'll upload it, though I don't see a need for a FOMOD. It's easier just to have a German install. But I use MO, so direct install from a .7z is the easiest thing possible.

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4 minutes ago, bubba999 said:

the weird potion thing, unforced, what are the requirements to get it to work?

You choose the number of deals you need in the MCM.

So you need that many deals.

You also need to not be enslaved, you need to be in "deals" mode.

And it can't start when you're playing a game, such as the pony game.

 

When it is enabled you will have a dialog option: "Please! These deals... I'm a slave... I want to be free!"

It may be off the bottom of your regular options, so you need to scroll to see it.

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1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

From the total lack of complaints about the problems with that version of the 'quest' on the old DF forum?

 

If you use the forced version regularly, how do you proceed once you're bound to a random NPC who is not your DF?

"Lack of complains", that's one way to do it =D

 

Not sure why it's a problem that the NPC is not a DF?

I mean you keep your DF follower anyways and the rest of the party.

Just need to visit that mean NPC regularly to get a dose of sticky temporary curse removal.

 

I have to suffer the consequences and have to visit the random NPC regularly => this in turn creates stories on the way back, while totally DF debuffed.

Or fight naked a lot (means hiding behind some good followers until I make it back to that NPC)

Also have to evade most places with a lot of NPCs because of DEC.

That in turn makes campfire more interesting.

 

Potion quest saved me from a stuck situation where debt was so high, that I would never be able to pay it without cheating, but also I would never had chosen the potion quest as alternative voluntary (means I have to sell my beloved high quality stuff to get deals removed if I feel time runs out).

Now I set it so that there have to be a lot of deals until it might trigger, like some motivation to not get potion enslaved.

The evilness about that quest is what I like.

I wouldn't complain about it, because I know it's meant to be unfair, like SRR enslavement.

 

The price for that is a bit high tho :classic_ph34r:

 

You have a good point there to highlight the "random" in NPC.

I would like to have a chance to register a few NPCs for that, like with the DF SS+ outcome (although that's only one too).

Until now I was just lucky with the NPC that got randomly chosen by DF (for some reason it's always Argonians 🤷‍♂️).

I fear some LO it will be Embry 😱

 

I never tried what would happen if that forced potion NPC gets killed (so far it's always some civil NPC form ETaC or vanilla, guess he becomes essential or does it just break the quest?)

 

Not sure if there should be an escape option for the forced version of that deal.

A little hope on the other hand makes it even more evil.

Need to think about something^^

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Post below is definitely suggestions for "future" additions rather than current bugs or enhancements:

 

 

I had a chance to look at Lozeak's WIP .esp he provided when he announced he'd be away from modding for the foreseeable future.  The unfinished "humiliation" system he was building did look interesting, so I thought I'd suggest it as something possibly worth looking into adding to your continuation.

 

From what I could see it looked almost like an achievement tracker and status updater, made up of comments the PC has on her current deals situation and recalling things she's had to do in the past.  Things like remembering the "games" she's had to play seemed to make up a chunk of the comments available.

 

No clue how close it was to being functional, or if it was intended to have gameplay effects other than just flavour text.  Very likely it would make more sense to start from scratch if you did end up wanting to add such a feature into the mod. 

 

 

Whole cloth ideas below:

 

I do think that some form of minor persistence to the events you experience with DF could add something to the mod.  In the past managing to dig your way out of a debt spiral and dismissing your follower (followed by sleeping for a week to restore your destroyed willpower) basically gave you a clean slate as if nothing had ever happened.  That being said, being spammed by PC narration or status messages can get very tiresome for some, especially if the pool of possibilities is small.

 

One idea for a lingering humiliation system: 

  • Perhaps while the PC has a devious follower in tow, a hidden "humiliation" variable is incremented every time DF events take place to a certain limit.  Games could add a lot to this (with the Jarl pet suit game basically maxing it in one go).  Sleeping while still having the DF with you could reduce this variable by a set amount if willpower is restored.  *note - this might be a redundant stat if willpower goes back to restoring slowly again, where the below suggestions could just be linked to willpower itself*
  • The value of the PC's "humiliation" stat could affect a variety of things - such as status notifications, recollections of past events, DF specific dialogues and events ect.
  • If the PC ends up dismissing the DF for any reason she could be afflicted with debuff and shameful thoughts based on their current humiliation level.  The variable could decay over time (as there are no more DF events to trigger an increase) and *eventually* the PC will be back to normal and somewhat forget about her experiences.

So essentially humiliation could be incentive to keep a DF around even after digging your way out of a debt/deals hole, if your humiliation level is very high.  If you keep your head above water for a period of time the levels will naturally drop and the DF could be dismissed without too much repercussions.  

 

 

IMO major consequences like general infamy/NPC comments ect are probably outside the scope of DF and best left to mods that try to simulate those things like - Fall of the Dragonborn/Sexual Fame seems to be a mod setup that does that, altho I haven't tried it myself.

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A small thought on Follower "lives"...

 

Follower lives were an interesting way to consider the follower's mood as well as the player's willpower, with the follower getting a little sloppier with held gold, for instance, and generally being more troublesome at low lives (I don't know how many things were actually impacted by this).

 

With this in mind, I think using "lives" as  a "frustration" stat for the follower might be useful, to make them more demanding if the player constantly refuses their helpful suggestions.  Refusing a follower's request/demand for sex for instance (I know, that demand doesn't come from DF, I think it might be DEC), or turning down the occasional suggestion for a new deal or a new destination, that sort of thing.   This way not everything is dependent on willpower, but the player may find it (seemingly) wise to sometimes mollify the follower.

 

Restoration of "lives" might occur when sleeping as now, although perhaps with a very tight limit unless the sleep is luxurious ("And I'd like your nicest room for my follower...").  And of course, good behaviour makes for a happy follower.

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

I never tried what would happen if that forced potion NPC gets killed (so far it's always some civil NPC form ETaC or vanilla, guess he becomes essential or does it just break the quest?)

I didn't confirm it, but my assumption is that the potion giver alias is set essential, so they cannot die - just like the follower.

 

I'm aware of how the scenario could play out, but I wasn't sure if that was what you were doing.

 

There are two glitches there:

 

1) as you identify, the random nature of the NPC is a bit too arbitrary - it should at least be a potential follower, and not somebody like Nazeem, hilarious as that would be

2) the dialog between you and the giver doesn't quite make sense - they have no history with you, so why do they have this thing going on with the potion to keep you?

 

For the future, I absolutely believe Lozeak intended an escape path, and I would like to implement one at some point - it would be hard though - and perhaps only temporary.

 

Why do I believe an escape path is implicit? Because of the source drinking from a vial before they "feed" you. The story about only their ... is clearly a lie. Anyone who drinks the stuff in the vial can supply. What if you drink it yourself? Maybe something good, maybe something bad. First problem is to get the chance to try it.

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15 hours ago, Reesewow said:

I had a chance to look at Lozeak's WIP .esp he provided when he announced he'd be away from modding for the foreseeable future.  The unfinished "humiliation" system he was building did look interesting, so I thought I'd suggest it as something possibly worth looking into adding to your continuation.

I don't think his WIP really shows how it would work, and I don't think what's there shows any sign of solving the problem with the existing willpower system. It solves some other problem that doesn't exactly exist right now. What he intended ... I don't think I can really see ... and I'm not sure he knew for sure himself ... it was part of a creative process that isn't finished.

 

What I do intend to do, quite soon, is provide some willpower mechanic changes, that will be options.

 


1) You get to choose to change how willpower is lost, so that resistance does not diminish as you lose willpower, and can even increase.

This will be a slider that selects how much base-resistance is altered for each willpower lost, and you can set it +ve or -ve.

With the ability to set starting base-resistance for willpower 10, this gives plenty of ability to customise willpower loss rate.

 

2) You get to choose not to regain all willpower on sleeping, and instead gain an amount of willpower based on what deals/devices you have.

(There's currently an option to limit max willpower based on deals, but that's a different thing).

This will be a tickbox, and when enabled willpower recovery will be as detailed below...

 

 D  |  W

----|----

 0  |  5       Where D = MAX(Deals, 2 x DevicesWorn)

 1  |  4             W = willpower regained from sleeping 6+ hours

 2  |  4

 3  |  3

 4  |  3

 5  |  3

 6  |  2

 7  |  2

 8  |  2

 9+ |  1 

 

So, for a six deal scenario, you'd need five nights of good sleep to recover.

But if you were to get rid of the deals, you'd recover in two nights ... unless you were wearing three devices, in which case it would still be five nights...

Though that's assuming you don't lose any willpower during the day ;) 

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On 9/28/2019 at 12:05 PM, Lupine00 said:

Personally, I always wanted a feature where the follower would sell stuff for you - to remove the vendor min-maxing drudgery from the game.

In NFF you ask a follower "I need a moment of your time"  then get a list including "I want you to sell some things for me."  A trade window opens and you put any non-enchanted items from your inventory in it.  If you happen to be near a store your follower runs off to the store when you close the window.  In a minute or two they return and hand you some gold. 

When playing with DF I usually send a non-devious follower off to the store.  Especially handy when the PC is gagged and will get super low pricing from merchants.

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8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

You get to choose to change how willpower is lost, so that resistance does not diminish as you lose willpower, and can even increase.

This is great, not just because players will have different preferences for how this should work, but also because the player can change it for different play-throughs.  In one game my PC might be very strong-willed and resilient, in another the PC might be weak and easily discouraged, which could lead to fairly different experiences with devious followers.

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I noticed "pony game" and "jarl game" being mentioned a few times in the thread.
What are those? Are they events from DF? I had never encountered those :O 

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4 hours ago, Garfieldcat said:

I noticed "pony game" and "jarl game" being mentioned a few times in the thread.
What are those? Are they events from DF? I had never encountered those :O 

They are games the follower sometimes plays with the PC.

Spoiler

 

One happens if you're wearing slave boots, and lacking certain other devices ... but only rarely.

The other happens if you're collared in a Jarl's palace and have low willpower, and lacking certain devices. I think there's a deal limit as well.

 

 

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On 9/30/2019 at 5:17 AM, legraf said:

A small thought on Follower "lives"...

 

Follower lives were an interesting way to consider the follower's mood as well as the player's willpower, with the follower getting a little sloppier with held gold, for instance, and generally being more troublesome at low lives (I don't know how many things were actually impacted by this).

 

With this in mind, I think using "lives" as  a "frustration" stat for the follower might be useful, to make them more demanding if the player constantly refuses their helpful suggestions.

 

Possibly, though this could make the follower a bit predictable. One problem is that losing lives can be entirely the follower's fault, and it can be unfair on the PC.

 

We've all had a follower who insisted on walking into the same trap over and over again.

This can be fixed - mostly - with the perk, but if you don't have a mod that adds it, you'll find a lot of followers do not have it.

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On 9/30/2019 at 4:48 AM, Reesewow said:

Whole cloth ideas below:

 

I do think that some form of minor persistence to the events you experience with DF could add something to the mod.  In the past managing to dig your way out of a debt spiral and dismissing your follower (followed by sleeping for a week to restore your destroyed willpower) basically gave you a clean slate as if nothing had ever happened.  That being said, being spammed by PC narration or status messages can get very tiresome for some, especially if the pool of possibilities is small.

 

That very specific pattern certainly resonates with me. The question is not so much "can it be detected?" as it is "how would we punish the PC in an interesting way?"

 

The DiD addiction system springs to mind here. It was a fascinating idea, spoiled only by an implementation that had some notable bugs.

 

DF makes it easier - each classic deal could tie to a consequence.

 

e.g. After having a level 3 slut deal it might take a long time before people forget what you told them, so often.

Or after having a level 3 bondage deal, people might assume you like being tied up and offer their help DCL style.

Or after having a level 3 ownership deal, people might assume that you are assuredly property.

And so on.

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On 9/29/2019 at 11:01 AM, donttouchmethere said:

That's the good thing about NFF.

Just keep DF above NFF and all is fine.

In Fact I changed to NFF because it has less/notanyatall issues with DF if the LO is right.

 

The EFF patch was only relevant if DF needs to be below EFFdialoges for some reason as far as I understand it.

 

So far NFF evolves into something superior to EFF and AFT.

Even if it has a follower limit of 10.

I have the same results. No issues with NFF.

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3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

DF makes it easier - each classic deal could tie to a consequence.

 

e.g. After having a level 3 slut deal it might take a long time before people forget what you told them, so often.

Or after having a level 3 bondage deal, people might assume you like being tied up and offer their help DCL style.

Or after having a level 3 ownership deal, people might assume that you are assuredly property.

And so on.

That could be a fun way to show the PC's behavior having an effect on NPC's assumptions. 

 

More interesting than just getting debuffs certainly, and if it is linked to getting out of level 3 deals then it could function just fine whether or not you still have a follower (they'd probably find it amusing, and definitely wouldn't go out of their way to correct the misconceptions).

 

Having NPCs asking the PC how much they are charging post level 3 plug deal or jokingly calling her a good dog post Jarl game could be a lot of fun.

 

How long this "infamy" lasts could be an MCM menu slider, so players can decide how long they want their PC's dirty deeds remembered.

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Talk of ponygame (which i haven't had chance to see yet) reminds me of an issue with the doggy game in Jarl's palace.

Spoiler

The game where you are in petsuit the mod goes in detail to explain how the suit stretches and then snaps limbs back together. But that's not what should be happening with DD 4.3+ anymore with petsuit sex animations and the suit's inherent carryweight limiter. You can't even jump with it, so it can't actually stretch the limbs at any point.

 

Of course there is that possibility that people installed their animations wrong way... I saw some talk about not seeing the petsuit anims, although they worked fine for me.

 

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53 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

Talk of ponygame (which i haven't had chance to see yet) reminds me of an issue with the doggy game in Jarl's palace.

It was done so it would work with inappropriate animations, as even if the filter works, there is no assurance the user has not disabled it, and some do.

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1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

How long this "infamy" lasts could be an MCM menu slider

Trust me. I know sliders :) 

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1 hour ago, Zaflis said:

Of course there is that possibility that people installed their animations wrong way... I saw some talk about not seeing the petsuit anims, although they worked fine for me.

 

At the time the petsuit game was first introduced I don't think any animations had yet been created for it, so it simply triggered regular SL animations.  That dialogue was likely supposed to explain away why the gear simply stretched and the PC moved normally during SL scenes (of which you get a lot in that scene).  Probably a bit overkill now assuming the player is using the filter, and if they aren't they should know what to expect.

 

I was having some issues triggering pet animations in the beta and posted that question in the forums - since others have confirmed the pet animations function for them it is likely just an artifact of the mods I had tested with or the old save finally breaking down (plan to start a new character once I wrap up a few major quest mods on the current one).  I think it is safe to assume the petsuit animation filter works fine in most cases.

 

Spoiler

Since that game still has the possibility of the Jarl's dog getting involved the stretching issue still somewhat stands, but much more minor of an issue than it was previously (1 sex scene out of.... 4/5?).

 

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