Devious Followers - Continued

[1444971497]

On 2019/12/29 at AM7点54分, Zagzaguel said:

那不是很基本的跟随者框架的东西吗

 

EFF，NFF和AFT不会引起太大问题，您可以将它们与DF一起使用。羽扇豆已经在解决由冲突引起的一些问题

 

我认为这需要扎兹，对吗？ 

 

我对Zaz的问题是，它附带了几千个FNIS动画（如果尝试将其保持在10k以下，这会很多），并且几乎没有正确使用它们

但忽略这一点，锁定在那会发生什么？只是AFKing？

我想这在某些情况下可能不是问题，但是这次我缺乏对将要发生的事情的想象力（好吧，我可以想象可能发生的一些事情，但我认为无法使其正常工作）

I think it can be linked with this     

 

[1444971497]

 

[Tron91]

I have v2.06 of Display Model and my port is working fine.

[Rolgar]

I want to pass an idea:

I just went through the "MIasma" Quest in Dawnstar. It is one of those quest were you have to leave your Follower. I had DF activated and once the quest was done my follower simply joined the char and they went on adventuring. However, I think it would fit perfectly if the follower charges the mainchar after such quests with let's say 1000 Septim while complaining that the mainchar left him in order to make some secret money the mainchar wants to hide from his follower. 

[PoleProde]

Found a bag. Then you off mod in MCM and meet a guard, he will ask you to bring him to the master, but since the mode is turned off, the dialogue with the follower does not start. Will be great to fix it in a way then every aspect of a game will shut off. And really would like to see the possibility of a complete cut-off of debt or marking follower as non usable in mod.

[1444971497]

Look forward to 2.07

[slaveyan]

Will a mandatory tattoo feature be added in future releases?

[rangydangy]

hey, im having trouble getting the mod to work.

 

whenever i recruit a follower the message "i hope you dont cheat me..." message is displayed, indicating that the mod started. however this message reappears every couple of minutes. also i have set a minimum of 3 contract days, but even after recruiting a follower, the mcm still shows 0 days remaining. the same thing happends if i use the debug function to force the mod to register the follower as devious follower. are there any obviously conflicting mods that i am just unaware of? or is there a simple fix? help me please.

 

Also does this mod work with followers from mods?

[Black Justicar]

I GOT A BUG:
DFC can not properly detect is PC in Town or in Wildness/Dungeon. 
So if PC asks to take off the Town Collar, follower accepts and takes it off, but then instantly punishes PC with chains for not being in Town Collar.
Yes, I'm certain that PC is in real Wildness not just past town gates.

Any solutions, please?

[Lupine00]

To fix confusing problems where dialog says it will remove BlockGeneric items then aborts in the script...

 

I've changed the scripts so that you can't remove any items if you're wearing a BlockGeneric item, which is tiresome, but efficient.

Usually a block generic will be something nasty from DCL, but it may be that something like the PetProject belt is flagged that way.

 

Quest is not tested in this way.

There's no efficient way to test on a slotwise basis. There's a "less awful" way, but it's not ideal.

This probably deserves a more thorough rewrite, as the existing mechanisms are quite basic.

 

 

There are four obvious ways to go on this:

 

1) Retain new BlockGeneric blocks all follower removal options.

2) Restore old behaviour. You get a message on top-right that follower can't remove after attempting removal - it's easy to miss though.

3) Significant time spent making it work properly, this means other things don't get done

4) Ignore BlockGeneric altogether, and simply remove the items without regard for the flag.

 

Any strong opinions on this?

[Lupine00]

I've uploaded a new version: 2.07

 

Most importantly this adds built-in support for follower frameworks.

Followers should be counted correctly, and it shouldn't be possible to dismiss followers through dialog inappropriately.

Some MCM facilities to dismiss a devious follower may still work - as they are repair/debug tools - try not to abuse them.

 

This version also adds the fatigue/boredom system.

Spoiler

Willpower Fatigue

 

Each time you pay the follower, you receive some fatigue.

Paying off a debt removes some fatigue.

Donating to temples removes some fatigue.

Fatigue is subtracted from your resistance whenever you wake up and restore willpower.

If this is enough to zero your resistance, willpower is reduced and the damage carries over normally. You could lose multiple willpower points if your fatigue is high enough.

You can configure fatigue per payment. It doesn't have to be a whole number.

 

Follower Boredom

 

If you have insufficient deals, after an interval (usually a few days) the follower will increase their boredom level.

If you have sufficient deals at the time this is checked, boredom doesn't increase.

If the follower has some boredom, they will increase your fee by a percentage amount. The percentage increases each day (not boredom interval).

If you gain enough deals, boredom is reset to zero, as is the fee adjustment, but the required deals will be increased by one.

The only way to reset the expected deal count is to dismiss the follower and hire a new one.

It's actually possible to reach a point where you need more deals than you can actually have...

In such an extreme case, you should be able to exit slavery, but you will be back in it again within a few days if you don't quickly get rid of the follower.

 

Also, each deal you take now gives a standing discount (which may be offset by any boredom related penalty).

There's a tiny bug in this I already fixed, reviewing just now, but it makes only a trivial difference to the adjusted debt, just a few septims.

You can set the total discount limit.

 

Thus, it's now beneficial to make deals earlier rather than later, as it will save you money.

If you can time it just right, you can optimize the cost a bit. It isn't easy, so good luck with that.

It's beneficial to hold onto deals, due to the discount.

It's wise to rotate deals periodically, but not increase too fast.

If you end up holding a lot of deals, and in debt for a few boredom periods, the deal counter will tick up each time, quickly locking you into higher deal requirements to avoid boredom.

 

The mod tracks follower boredom numerically, but right now boredom more than one does nothing harmful.

The intent is to gate some new functionality on higher boredom levels.

For now, the main penalty for boredom is higher debts.

 

You can configure the boredom penalty to zero, and the maximum discount to zero if you want, effectively disabling this feature.

 

It only just occurred to me that being able to set a limit on the max expected deals (which could then be set to zero) is a good way to customise that feature, so I'm adding it for release in the next bug-fix update.

 

The follower framework integration and boredom/fatigue system is not as well tested as I'd like.

 

If you have problems, please report.

[macnchz]

not sure if this has not been mentioned but perhaps adding the "forced follower" as part of death alternative - rescued.   follower rescues you and stays with you until the PC pays them back for rescusing them.   Also as part of SD+ - follower rescuing the PC from a non human slavery and basically makes the PC the follower's slave.   just ideas thrown out, not sure if they have been mentioned as I did not read all the posts here.  

 

Great Mod, thank you for continuing it!!!!

[Lupine00]

12 minutes ago, macnchz said:

Also as part of SD+ - follower rescuing the PC from a non human slavery and basically makes the PC the follower's slave. 

I like this idea, as it could unbreak non-human slavery in SD+, which is currently all but useless (because you usually can't get out of it unless the master is a really weak animal).

How to integrate it, and when I'd have time, that's a different question.

 

 

As for rescues, it would be great if DiD could rescue via a Devious Follower. It never will.

I think the best you're likely to get for now is DF as a Simple Slavery outcome, which you can just configure for DA, Defeat, or DCL Combat Defeat.

[Bane Master]

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I like this idea, as it could unbreak non-human slavery in SD+, which is currently all but useless (because you usually can't get out of it unless the master is a really weak animal).

How to integrate it, and when I'd have time, that's a different question.

 

 

As for rescues, it would be great if DiD could rescue via a Devious Follower. It never will.

I think the best you're likely to get for now is DF as a Simple Slavery outcome, which you can just configure for DA, Defeat, or DCL Combat Defeat.

It could just use a modified version of the simple "Inn Rescue" scenario, if you "die" with a DF they rescue you and add debt/deals or whatever, if no follower then add one as the rescuer - if a past DF so much the better! 

 

Making this happen in DA is pretty straightforward especially if the DF Modevent interfaces support the  desired functionality. The clever bit (that I have never mastered - I'm just a script monkey) is getting some nice dialogue to happen explaining what is going on...

[reliefbloodsuck]

I really like this mod, however i cant seem to make this mod to work properly, when i installing this mod using NMM nothing overwrite the follower framework (im using EFF) the option to overwrite the framework doesnt show up, however the MCM menu does show up in game but no new dialog at all, am i doing something wrong ? sorry if this is a stupid question

[obviouslyincognito]

I had a thought today, so please excuse me while I ramble.

 

What if having multiple followers was made a little more exciting? I haven't really experimented with having multiple followers while using this mod, but from what I can gather the only thing that happens is that there's extra debt added for each follower you have. So currently it seems like you can either have one follower to keep your debt more manageable, or risk faster enslavement with more followers for the trade off of easier fights. It's fine, just personally it doesn't seem like much of an incentive for me to get multiple followers.

 

So what if there was extra flavour/content for more followers?

 

When you have a follower and go to hire another one, you get dialogue about agreeing to a new pay rate with more followers. Additional cost, like normal, or a slightly reduced cost per follower since each one will technically be required to do less work. I like the idea of a lower cost since it kind of fits the theme of the followers secretly planning on tricking you into slavery, and paying two followers at reduced rates could still end up being more than a single higher rate for more followers. This is where the extra "fun" would begin.

 

There Can Only be One Master

For the rest of this example, lets say you have three followers.

While adventuring you start racking up debt and making deals with your followers, the same old song and dance. However, you have three followers, and as your resistance and willpower start dropping they begin to realize that they all have the same end goal of enslaving you. And unspoken they all come to the same conclusion that only one of them can be the master of their new soon to be slave.

 

A new interaction starts to trigger now between the followers while your in safe locations like towns and such while you're busy selling items, resting at inns, or whatever. Your followers have now started playing games and gambling between each other, and now randomly they start to sell/trace their own freedoms between one another and some of them might even start getting a debt of their own.

 

Once they start these games, they won't stop until all but one of the followers is enslaved, even if you clear your debt and deals.

 

Consequences

If you're free (not enslaved)

Two of your followers are now slaves of the third, so now you technically have only one follower. However, your follower has some slaves they need to take care of now, so they increase their rate by a large amount (they're also more impatient about enslaving you now). If you still manage to stay debt free for long enough, your follower will get tired of you and end up dismissing themselves, taking their slaves with them.

 

Once your follower leaves with their slaves, that follower will return to their original place, and you will now encounter slave traders around Skyrim. These slave traders will have those enslaved followers in tow, having bought them from your follower once they grew tired of them.

 

If you're enslaved by your follower

Largely plays out like normal enslavement, with the added flavour of being one of a couple slaves now. Once your 'master' grows tired of you, as a tie in with the 'selling the player' mechanic, you and the other slaves get sold to a slave trader.

 

Return to "Normalcy"

You're free

You can now buy those enslaved followers from slave traders. Unbeknownst to you, your newly purchased slaves still have their old devious motivations. So while in the beginning you're not paying them anything (and they may be collared or cuffed, etc...) they'll still work towards breaking and enslaving you. After adventuring there's now a chance to have restraints put on you while you sleep or get sleep drugged by your follower. You 'slave' follower is actively seeking ways to turn their situation around after all. They're secretly looking for restraints for you and keys to unlock their own bindings. Once you start getting a worn down and your follower is free of their bonds, they can start offering to remove your devices for a fee and demanding a rate for their work. From here things are back to normal.

 

You were enslaved and sold

A potential follower (could even be the one that sold you) will buy you. They'll give you very basic armour and weapons, but that's it. Any items or gold you find are taken by your owner. After a while of good behaviour, your 'owner' now sees you as more than just a slave, so they free you and lift your restrictions. You're no longer a slave, and you have a grace period of a few days before your 'companion' starts to get some devious ideas.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  

 

A little long winded, but I just wanted to get this thought out of my head and out there. I don't know if it's something you'd like to do or not, or if it's even remotely feasible to make. I just thought some more flavour to multiple followers would be fun.

[HexBolt8]

1 hour ago, obviouslyincognito said:

So currently it seems like you can either have one follower to keep your debt more manageable, or risk faster enslavement with more followers for the trade off of easier fights. It's fine, just personally it doesn't seem like much of an incentive for me to get multiple followers.

Should there be an added incentive for additional followers?  Each one makes the game easier, so the extra cost is a compensating dis-incentive.  I realize that some players enjoy having a small army or harem of followers, but at that point they're just mobbing the enemy for you.

 

A truly devious follower would be well aware of the threat of adding a rival, and either stop you or screen potential new followers to disallow any other "alpha", accepting only ones who are submissive or willing to support the first follower.  The DF has plenty of ways to drain your cash without allowing a challenger into the group.  It would be interesting to see scripted interactions between followers, but Lupine has so many other excellent feature ideas on his to-do list that we might never see it.

[Guest AthenaESIV]

Thanks for the update Lupine, the direction of some of these additions looks really interesting.

[bammy1989]

Love this mod! 

 

Well the idea of it anyway, i can't seem to locate 2 of the required mods for this to work 

 

SexLab Aroused V28b or SLAX V29+ 

AND

Devious Devices - Integration 4.2+

 

Probarly just being blind, but a point in the right direction would be nice! 

[Guest AthenaESIV]

I keep getting an empty Defeat struggle bar when I try installing EFF... Is that a Defeat problem? EFF? or something I am missing in DFC?

[SkyAddiction]

On 1/3/2020 at 10:45 PM, Lupine00 said:

There are four obvious ways to go on this:

 

1) Retain new BlockGeneric blocks all follower removal options.

2) Restore old behaviour. You get a message on top-right that follower can't remove after attempting removal - it's easy to miss though.

3) Significant time spent making it work properly, this means other things don't get done

4) Ignore BlockGeneric altogether, and simply remove the items without regard for the flag.

 

Any strong opinions on this?

 

1) Makes quite a bit of sense in that it covers the obvious and guards against some potential future incompatibilities.

 

On 2.07:

 

It's worth noting that I haven't tested anything beyond the absolute minimum yet, but I like the fatigue system. Donating to temples? Why doesn't anyone else use this? Oh, right. Because the vanilla game does fuck-all with religion and everyone forgets it exists. Nicely done.

 

Boredom is elegant. It provides pressure on the player in a neat little package, but I think the boredom system could benefit from something that allows the player to pay significantly more to buy out of a deal and either halt the expected deal counter or lower it a level. Maybe both options? There's not a hell of a lot the player can do to work their way back or halt the progress of boredom. This would allow the option and also make the money sink even more robust. I see this being a lot more important to players who don't want to dismiss/rehire followers, but who knows - maybe everyone likes the idea? Or hates it... ?

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, AthenaESIV said:

I keep getting an empty Defeat struggle bar when I try installing EFF... Is that a Defeat problem? EFF? or something I am missing in DFC?

Probably completely a Defeat problem. May be related to Defeat not tracking your followers, but I'm guessing you tried it without any?

[Lupine00]

8 hours ago, bammy1989 said:

Well the idea of it anyway, i can't seem to locate 2 of the required mods for this to work 

 

SexLab Aroused V28b or SLAX V29+ 

AND

Devious Devices - Integration 4.2+

 

Probarly just being blind, but a point in the right direction would be nice! 

SLAX link is in my signature. 

DD is here: 

DD is on 4.3 now, though you could use an older 4.2 install (much smaller). Up to you. Either will work.

 

I'll update the front page to have links.

[Lupine00]

13 hours ago, reliefbloodsuck said:

I really like this mod, however i cant seem to make this mod to work properly, when i installing this mod using NMM nothing overwrite the follower framework (im using EFF) the option to overwrite the framework doesnt show up, however the MCM menu does show up in game but no new dialog at all, am i doing something wrong ? sorry if this is a stupid question

Do you already have EFF installed? It needs to install first if you want to overwrite. You can install it after as long as it doesn't overwrite. Amounts to the same thing, except that DF will have updates and EFF never will.

 

The files you should see getting overwritten are effcore.pex and eff_dialoguefollowerscript.pex (and their sources).

[Lupine00]

11 hours ago, obviouslyincognito said:

There Can Only be One Master

For the rest of this example, lets say you have three followers.

It all sounds fun, but probably not as wanted by most people as new deals and games?

 

I have long wanted to do something where multiple followers gang up on you to play a game (or two), but that's about the limit of my ambition.

I'd love to see more going on with multiple followers if you are enslaved, and with multiple followers generally, but it's vague wish, I don't have anything concrete.