Darkpig Posted May 20, 2019 Posted May 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Kendo 2 said: I won't buy any future Bethesda games on principle. They lost me as a customer with FO4, and the on-going FO76 fiasco confirms I'm making the right decision. They're in the same 'never-gonna-buy-anything-you-make' shithouse as EA and Ubisoft. If CDPR ever crosses the line they can join too. I don't have loyalty to corporations, only good games and my satisfaction (it is my money, afterall). Fuck that up and I'll speak with my wallet. Well that much is obvious. Quitting a corporation cold turkey is almost as silly as staying loyal to a corporation. The only difference is that it is your money as you said and corporations have no right to complain when their product isn't selling. Trust isn't an easy thing to get back once gone. If they want their trust back they better start cranking out good games again is all I'm saying. FO4 sounded kind of bland, FO76 was a really bad idea so I never bothered with those. Maybe yours was the right decision I dunno. Some in Bethesda might quit the company to start their own products so unless you know the names of all the members of the team you are back to square one when picking out good games.
Vyxenne Posted May 20, 2019 Posted May 20, 2019 3 hours ago, winny257 said: the English text would be sufficient, but thanks for your effort. You are most welcome. I try to be thorough whenever possible.
Ernest Lemmingway Posted May 20, 2019 Posted May 20, 2019 That "official message" from Bugthesda has to be one of the biggest trolls ever, catching both fanbois and hater alike who think it's real. While the image that inspired this topic is just...meh.
SpyVsPie Posted May 20, 2019 Posted May 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ernest Lemmingway said: That "official message" from Bugthesda has to be one of the biggest trolls ever, catching both fanbois and hater alike who think it's real. While the image that inspired this topic is just...meh. Anyone who thinks that's real still needs their mittens attached to their jacket ?
nightwing100 Posted May 21, 2019 Author Posted May 21, 2019 On 5/20/2019 at 4:46 AM, Kendo 2 said: Bethesda has always been like that. Call them out on their lies and bullshit or do something as basic as pointing out the obvious and BAM! blacklisted. Bethesda is the orange man of gamer. On 5/20/2019 at 4:36 AM, GrimReaper said: Classic cRPGs are either turn based or real time with pause. You're talking about hybrid RPGs, like Gothic (and other games from Piranha Bytes) and Bethesda's Elder Scrolls / Fallout series. Which are in turn loathed by RPG purists. There are not many studios willing to deal with the challenge of creating such a world, it's way easier to make money through typical open world games filled with busy-work or flavor of the month multiplayer games. Though you might want to look at Dragon's Dogma, it's not the same, but the closest one I can think of. Basically every complaints of Bethesda end up being like
GrimReaper Posted May 21, 2019 Posted May 21, 2019 On the other hand, blacklisting media outlets is entirely within their rights. It's not like games media had any real interest in games for the past couple of years anyway. It's always politics this, politics that. Bethesda has made many mistakes, but I don't think this is one of them. Why cater to folks that are only interested in selling outrage and clickbait to bloat their clicks and views? Have you seen the shitshow they've made about Sekiro?
Kendo 2 Posted May 21, 2019 Posted May 21, 2019 4 hours ago, nightwing100 said: Bethesda is the orange man of gamer Schreier is the Jim Acosta of gaming journos.
Celedhring Posted May 21, 2019 Posted May 21, 2019 I'd like some shades of gray morality to my RPG's thank you very much. Nothing too black and white. Too boring.
Ernest Lemmingway Posted May 21, 2019 Posted May 21, 2019 Schreier is already hinting at a "major" article about "horrible crunch culture" at CDPR based on the accounts of four--four--ex-employees from a company of thousands. The man is an attention whore the same as his employers, seeking affirmation with outrage articles. He may have exposed some serious rot in BioWare but he's still just another urinalist.
winny257 Posted May 21, 2019 Posted May 21, 2019 39 minutes ago, Ernest Lemmingway said: Schreier is already hinting at a "major" article about "horrible crunch culture" at CDPR based on the accounts of four--four--ex-employees from a company of thousands. The man is an attention whore the same as his employers, seeking affirmation with outrage articles. He may have exposed some serious rot in BioWare but he's still just another urinalist. https://kotaku.com/as-cyberpunk-2077-development-intensifies-cd-projekt-r-1834849725 https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1129469296185417731 german. "Cyberpunk 2077": Massive overtime and chaotic development like at "Anthem"? https://www.derstandard.de/story/2000103495001/cyberpunk-2077-crunch-chaos-wie-bei-anthem
Ernest Lemmingway Posted May 21, 2019 Posted May 21, 2019 4 hours ago, winny257 said: https://kotaku.com/as-cyberpunk-2077-development-intensifies-cd-projekt-r-1834849725 https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1129469296185417731 Jeremy at Thequartering on YouTube already did a video on both of these (sorry, it's in English). Schreier was hinting at a "major article" coming this week. I can't think of any game developer that doesn't have "brutal crunch," as the urinalist puts it, when a game is nearing the finish. It's not even unique to video game studios; any company that creates anything goes through a similar process unless they're ahead of schedule by several months. Schreier doesn't differentiate between the reality of all industries and the outright abuse that NetherRealm Studios was engaged in. He writes outrage articles for clicks. Which is self-defeating because people are already becoming numb to them and will soon no longer bother reading his stuff. It also hurts his cause that he screams on Twitter if anyone dares question his articles or points out his mistakes. For once I agree with Bethesda. The bum deserves to be blacklisted. He doesn't "report the facts," he editorializes.
nightwing100 Posted May 21, 2019 Author Posted May 21, 2019 7 hours ago, Ernest Lemmingway said: Schreier is already hinting at a "major" article about "horrible crunch culture" at CDPR based on the accounts of four--four--ex-employees from a company of thousands. The man is an attention whore the same as his employers, seeking affirmation with outrage articles. He may have exposed some serious rot in BioWare but he's still just another urinalist. So Yongyea is a urinalist too?
Ernest Lemmingway Posted May 22, 2019 Posted May 22, 2019 Ah. Videos over a year old. And based on even older sources. Try looking to see if those reports are still current. Yong's source, Glassdoor.com, now has over seventy CDPR employee reviews and they read the same as those for EA, Activision Blizzard, and any other studio you care to name that has a decent number of reviews: employees gripe about idiotic management and stressful crunch but love the pay--with the notable exception of contract employees for NetherRealm Studios. CDPR is no different than any other company if the majority of its employees are anything to go by. Also both videos showcase reports based on the word of ex-employees, people who may well have been fired and have an ax to grind. The anti-CDPR "facts" used to fuel the rhetoric could--and does--apply to any gaming company.
nightwing100 Posted May 22, 2019 Author Posted May 22, 2019 7 hours ago, Ernest Lemmingway said: Ah. Videos over a year old. And based on even older sources. Try looking to see if those reports are still current. Yong's source, Glassdoor.com, now has over seventy CDPR employee reviews and they read the same as those for EA, Activision Blizzard, and any other studio you care to name that has a decent number of reviews: employees gripe about idiotic management and stressful crunch but love the pay--with the notable exception of contract employees for NetherRealm Studios. CDPR is no different than any other company if the majority of its employees are anything to go by. Also both videos showcase reports based on the word of ex-employees, people who may well have been fired and have an ax to grind. The anti-CDPR "facts" used to fuel the rhetoric could--and does--apply to any gaming company. Found a picture of their Glassdoor review in 2017 Then check what positive review they got, here's an example Quote I worked at CD PROJEKT RED full-time for more than a year Pros All I have to say here is that a lot if not all of these reviews below are fake. We often talked to our staff and made sure they are perfectly happy working there. If anything was missing, we'd make sure we had a plan to atleast implement it. I no longer work there simply because I got too stressed, and I will never work anywhere if it's stressful, even if it is my dream job. I hate stress. Cons This website is a con. lol https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/bpvnvm/as_cyberpunk_2077_development_intensifies_cd/ And now they pledges to be 'More Humane' to Its workers, here's what people has to say. Quote From the article: Of course, anyone who’s worked anywhere knows that a request from the boss doesn’t need to be “mandatory” for it to be something you have to do. When probed, Iwiński wouldn’t promise to limit crunch to certain periods or offer specific numbers, other than to say that he hoped making this public statement would help CD Projekt Red employees feel more comfortable telling their managers when they don’t want to put in extra hours. (emphasis mine) It's weird to me that they chose to make a public statement. If the real goal was to change studio culture, they could for instance sanction the managers that are responsible for poor project management (if applicable) that resulted in crunch or offer longer vacation periods for employees that had to crunch, after the game shipped (the longer the crunch, the longer the added vacation). Quote They are making a public statement because they have been bleeding talent faster than they can acquire it. In Poland CDPR was already known to be a terrible place to work by most software engineers. But in the West that wasn't common knowledge until the various exposés and dev backlash that happened 2 years ago. At the time CDPR wasn't sure how to respond with studio management debating about whether to deny it, justify it, or admit it and promise to improve. They basically settled on justifying it. My guess is that brought widespread attention to how CDPR was one of the worst companies to work for in the industry. Now the talent situation must be even worse so they are trying to apologize and promising to improve. Quote I'd say it's because it has become a talking point for studios to discuss openly with their community. It's pretty common within office spaces that as management creates a deadline and the deadline nears, they feel there is no choice but to participate in a crunch. GGG is known for being ran by good people who happened to create a smash hit. On this thread he states A big topic in the gaming industry recently is development crunch. Some studios make their teams work 14 hour days to pack every patch full of the most fixes and improvements possible. Sometimes when we read our own Patch Notes threads and community feedback, we feel that we are being asked to do the same. I will not run this company that way. While there's inevitably a bit of optional paid overtime near league releases, the vast majority of a Path of Exile development cycle has great work/life balance. This is necessary to keep our developers happy and healthy for the long-term, but it does mean that some game improvements will take a while to be made. So the truth is that to buissnesses, all of the hype that players build up comes across as players asking that developers participate in a crunch. So that's exactly what businesses did. Now that a large conversation has started around this, it has shown that no, the players don't actually want developers to have a crunch and would rather a missed deadline over a crunch. It's a 2 way conversation between businesses and players to make sure they are on the same page with it. After years of seeing people flip out about missed deadlines screaming in all caps, and just generally being unreasonable I think it's a good discussion to have. Honestly my recommendation for solving the feeling of "A request feels mandatory" is to simply explain to the team that they are creating a system or board which shows who ( if not just a blanket everyone ) is able to pickup overtime and to request that management stop asking if someone wants overtime entirely. That way those who want to pick up overtime know how to check if they can, and in theory it should stop them from feeling like their boss is expecting them to because they are asking them directly. At the same time though you must be able to let deadlines slip, because if the choice is between overtime and your job much like happened on the game fortnite then the whole thing is a sham. I'm happy businesses are starting to make public statements about things, it feels more transparent this way. For the longest time game companies have always felt like a silent black box, and over these last few years that has started to change rapidly and games have started being much more transparent about what's going on. Quote I'm a fan of CD Projeckt Red, but this is all PR bullshit. Their policy is akin to unlimited vacation time that many Silicon Valley startups offer. If you use it, you're going to get frowned and talked behind, and slowly but surely it's going to come up at performance reviews. "Sam, you just don't seem to be working as hard as others." Quote "non-obligatory crunch policy" sure, youre not obligated to work crunch hours but Im sure they will say theyre not obligated to employ you if you dont. Quote "When probed, Iwiński wouldn’t promise to limit crunch to certain periods or offer specific numbers, other than to say that he hoped making this public statement would help CD Projekt Red employees feel more comfortable telling their managers when they don’t want to put in extra hours." aka here's a hollow statement saying we want to thwart crunch, but it's not gonna happen Look at all these dirty heretics, non-believers of Geraldo!
Kendo 2 Posted May 22, 2019 Posted May 22, 2019 Yup, CDPR is evil. What with all their predatory anti-consumer tactics...oh wait... I have zero sympathy for devs working for any game company (not just CDPR). It's a goddamned JOB and they get a paycheck. Don't like the working conditions or company culture? Get another fucking job. The devs aren't chained to their cubicles like slaves rowing a Roman galley. They can leave for greener pastures whenever they want.
winny257 Posted May 22, 2019 Posted May 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Kendo 2 said: They can leave for greener pastures whenever they want. not always, sometimes there are contracts that bind a worker to his job, can not be terminated so easily. In case of a breach of contract it may for the employee, very fast, very expensive become "called one contractual penalty". eg see football, The football players usually have a 4-year contract, that can not be broken. wants a player to change his club, then the new club must, a very high detachment fee pay. but you know that for sure, who Interested themselves not, for football.
WolfieMate Posted May 22, 2019 Posted May 22, 2019 4 hours ago, Kendo 2 said: Yup, CDPR is evil. What with all their predatory anti-consumer tactics...oh wait... I have zero sympathy for devs working for any game company (not just CDPR). It's a goddamned JOB and they get a paycheck. Don't like the working conditions or company culture? Get another fucking job. The devs aren't chained to their cubicles like slaves rowing a Roman galley. They can leave for greener pastures whenever they want. it's never really that easy
Ernest Lemmingway Posted May 22, 2019 Posted May 22, 2019 9 hours ago, nightwing100 said: <snip> Once more you're presenting just the facts that support your own conclusions rather than all of them and completely missing the point as well. Your own posts show things that can and do apply to every game studio, not just CDPR. Compared to companies like NetherRealm Studios or BioWare, CDPR isn't even the worst studio out there right now. And I even said before none of this is exclusive to the gaming industry. If you have a job, you're going to face "crunch." That's called life. What does this debate over CDPR and their practices have to do with the OP anyway? If it's a troll to try and inspire personal attacks so someone can play the victim, then we're just wasting our time even responding to this. Better to let it die of neglect than validate anything further. I'm out of here; take whatever petty satisfaction that gives you.
Mr. Otaku Posted May 22, 2019 Posted May 22, 2019 What is this thread man? I feel like, from reading the comments it's kinda like Bethesda vs CDPR? Or about CDPR's work schedules? Or about Cyberpunk and Witcher 3? Or Skyrim? Lmao where is this thread headed exactly? It started off as a Bethesda tweet i can see that much.
nightwing100 Posted May 23, 2019 Author Posted May 23, 2019 20 hours ago, Kendo 2 said: Yup, CDPR is evil. What with all their predatory anti-consumer tactics...oh wait... I have zero sympathy for devs working for any game company (not just CDPR). It's a goddamned JOB and they get a paycheck. Don't like the working conditions or company culture? Get another fucking job. The devs aren't chained to their cubicles like slaves rowing a Roman galley. They can leave for greener pastures whenever they want. YOU SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE GAMER! Like that time I bitch slap that disable Starbucks employee because she dares to forget to put milk in my coffee (I request tits milk btw), feel the power of consumer, fools! It's time for gamers to take our stand and start our jihad against those evil greedy corporation who try to make money, Geraldo Akbar!!! 12 hours ago, Ernest Lemmingway said: Once more you're presenting just the facts that support your own conclusions rather than all of them and completely missing the point as well. Your own posts show things that can and do apply to every game studio, not just CDPR. Compared to companies like NetherRealm Studios or BioWare, CDPR isn't even the worst studio out there right now. And I even said before none of this is exclusive to the gaming industry. If you have a job, you're going to face "crunch." That's called life. What does this debate over CDPR and their practices have to do with the OP anyway? If it's a troll to try and inspire personal attacks so someone can play the victim, then we're just wasting our time even responding to this. Better to let it die of neglect than validate anything further. I'm out of here; take whatever petty satisfaction that gives you. Does that mean you won't donate to my patreon? Okay then....Yooooooong out! 11 hours ago, Mr.Otaku said: What is this thread man? I feel like, from reading the comments it's kinda like Bethesda vs CDPR? Or about CDPR's work schedules? Or about Cyberpunk and Witcher 3? Or Skyrim? Lmao where is this thread headed exactly? It started off as a Bethesda tweet i can see that much. It's a bRaVe troll thread people, how many times do I have to say this?
Mr. Otaku Posted May 23, 2019 Posted May 23, 2019 3 hours ago, nightwing100 said: It's a bRaVe troll thread people, how many times do I have to say this? So.... just random bullshit then? lol
nightwing100 Posted May 23, 2019 Author Posted May 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mr.Otaku said: So.... just random bullshit then? lol On 5/18/2019 at 4:16 AM, Captain Cobra said: Gr8 troll thread OP. You know...maybe I was wrong, maybe it's not a brave troll thread. It is indeed...a great troll thread...But it's not a great Fallout troll thread.
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