What really makes you happy?

[Darkpig]

15 minutes ago, FauxFurry said:

It is difficult to say whether or not the movie really qualifies as 'woke' since there is little that the presumed target audience can identify with in the protagonist other than her gender. She gets where she ends up due to being extremely gifted naturally rather than clever and determined.

 

Possibly one of the only things wrong in this video is the use of the label 'Mary Sue' as that label refers to new female characters introduced into a preexisting series who disregards or outright breaks many if not all of the pre-established rules of the franchise related to competence and capability of characters in the setting. The same main character given a tweak in a remake is not the same thing as a late series addition who clashes horribly with everything in the setting.

That is why Lina Inverse is not seen as a Mary Sue even though she is likely more powerful than Rey from the new Star Wars trilogy.

It is also because of other characters' reactions to Lina which definitely do not fall into either blind acceptance/adoration or reluctance to see how great they are which only lasts until the Mary Sue shows that character how great she is.

Yeah. She really is a mary sue isn't she. Speaking of which have they killed that bitch Luke Skywalker yet?

 

Aaaaand now the Star Wars fans are mad. Getting back to Mulan. I guess her only real flaw is that she bathes even less than men in this movie which I find hilarious. I have heard people in Asian countries bathe more regularly than their western counterparts but I'm not sure if China during this time period was included in that statement. Still they really didn't go in depth about her lack of hygiene and likely excused it as part of the man disguise. She likes pranking her sister sure but the way she did it was just boring. I have wondered about that magical juju shit and I can't say it is right or wrong. On one hand her social standing as a man is compromised but on the other hand pretending to be something you are not can weigh on the mind and even the body. Yes martial arts is different for men than it is for women due to body structure.

 

Overall yeah it is boring.

[FauxFurry]

13 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

Yeah. She really is a mary sue isn't she.

Again, no, she can not be by definition. If they added this version of Mulan to The Romance of Three Kingdoms or Water Margin/Suikoden (the novels, not the video games adaptations) then she would count. In the video games, she'd fit right in among all of the ki-wielding one-person-armies so the answer would go right back to being No.

[Darkpig]

31 minutes ago, FauxFurry said:

Again, no, she can not be by definition. If they added this version of Mulan to The Romance of Three Kingdoms or Water Margin/Suikoden (the novels, not the video games adaptations) then she would count. In the video games, she'd fit right in among all of the ki-wielding one-person-armies so the answer would go right back to being No.

Lets try this again. Okay so what the fuck is a Mary Sue?

 

So the origin was a late addition to the Star Trek franchise. Was my mistake because Mulan was always there or what?

[legendarytoyou]

10 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

Lets try this again. Okay so what the fuck is a Mary Sue?

 

So the origin was a late addition to the Star Trek franchise. Was my mistake because Mulan was always there or what?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

Usually its a sign that character development was pretty much a, "bottom tier," goal and instead focus' more on the emphasis, "girl power," which is just lazy writing in my honest opinion.  Male characters are guilty of that to as well (Marty Stu in some circles, Harry Potter has been described as such).  Basically its just poor literary imagination or severe lack of imagination.

[Darkpig]

Actually lets back up from this Mary Sue thing. Before anything are there any characters that stand out? Is it a good or bad movie and how could it have been better?

 

And to address the whiny bitches. I don't care about any connection to the communist party. I just care about Is the movie good? If it relates to the movie then cool but it was set approx during the Song dynasty which predates the 1300s in where there was an established monarchy and the communist party wasn't established until the 1900s.

[FauxFurry]

12 minutes ago, legendarytoyou said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

Usually its a sign that character development was pretty much a, "bottom tier," goal and instead focus' more on the emphasis, "girl power," which is just lazy writing in my honest opinion.  Male characters are guilty of that to as well (Marty Stu in some circles, Harry Potter has been described as such).  Basically its just poor literary imagination or severe lack of imagination.

Thinking of Marty Stus and The Slayers franchise, one of the worst received Marty Stus was Prince Pakota from the R and Evolution-R chapters (yes, the 'seasons' had odd subtitles rather than numbers) of The Slayers. It was already known that magic power is boosted by female fertility cycles, making women the most powerful magic users by default. Any male who seems to be too powerful with magic to be real is always either a demon in disguise or drew their powers from a demon. That all changed with Pakota who was powerful in magic even in his human body. Maybe the excuse was that he was prepubescent so he isn't finished gendering?

 

Beyond that, the child was a skilled enough swordsboy that he could wield the Sword of Light just like Gourry Gabriev, a character whose entire gimmick is that he is the ultimate swordsman (and not much else). Unlike Lina, he tended to get on well with the party and random people/NPCs(the whole series takes place in a very much an RPG-verse type setting), further pushing him into Marty Stu territory. He essentially upstaged everyone in their own gimmicks at times without good cause.

 

Of course, there is also the body that he is trapped in by a curse. There is always room for him to claim that he would fare even better in combat were he in his real body rather than a fluffy stuffed toy.

It also may have been perceived as blatant merchandising to bring a character who is literally a stuffed toy into the show. At least The Transformers were alien super robot life forms in the canon itself rather than big toys from a store.

Then again, Season 3 did give them the origin of being created as consumer goods and weapons by The Quintessons so that might be close enough.

[FauxFurry]

9 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

Actually lets back up from this Mary Sue thing. Before anything are there any characters that stand out? Is it a good or bad movie and how could it have been better?

 

And to address the whiny bitches. I don't care about any connection to the communist party. I just care about Is the movie good? If it relates to the movie then cool but it was set approx during the Song dynasty which predates the 1300s in where there was an established monarchy and the communist party wasn't established until the 1900s.

Mulan 2020 is a remake so most of the detractors concerns are about how it stacks up to the older movie, be it as mere entertainment or as a vehicle to provide role models to young girls. The Mary Sue issue is pretty much peripheral but it is there, nonetheless. 

There we go. Here is a link to one of the more typical criticisms that have nothing to do with literary/fan fiction concepts:

 

[Darkpig]

5 minutes ago, FauxFurry said:

It also may have been perceived as blatant merchandising to bring a character who is literally a stuffed toy into the show. At least The Transformers were alien super robot life forms in the canon itself rather than big toys from a store.

Then again, Season 3 did give them the origin of being created as consumer goods and weapons by The Quintessons so that might be close enough.

My Little Pony~

My Little Pony~

-By Hasbro Toys

[FauxFurry]

Just now, Darkpig said:

My Little Pony~

My Little Pony~

-By Hasbro Toys

There is something to be said for honest, straightforward merchandise driven shows versus shows which conceal their consumerism. 

[27X]

1 hour ago, FauxFurry said:

Again, no, she can not be by definition. If they added this version of Mulan to The Romance of Three Kingdoms or Water Margin/Suikoden (the novels, not the video games adaptations) then she would count. In the video games, she'd fit right in among all of the ki-wielding one-person-armies so the answer would go right back to being No.

Yeah she is. She is the rote definition of self insert, because she acts nothing like a chinese woman, period accurate or not. She acts like the woke-whitewash version of chinese  superher-o. Literally Mary Sue; as defined by an actual chinese filmaker. Every writer on this film is twenty something white person, all four of whom can't even get the poem this is based on correct, much less historically accurate themes.

 

 

[FauxFurry]

2 minutes ago, 27X said:

Yeah she is. She is the rote definition of self insert, because she acts nothing like a chinese woman, period accurate or not. She acts like the woke-whitewash version of chinese  superher-o. Literaly Mary Sue; courtedy of an actual chinese filmaker. Every writer on this film is twenty something white person, all four of whom can't even get the poem this is based on correct, much less historically accurate themes.

 

 

She could be considered an Author Avatar but she still would not be a Mary Sue since she is the original protagonist of this remake (possible)franchise. I know that it is a bit pedantic for some peoples' liking but it is just a pet peeve of mine to see a character who is not shoehorned into another main characters series to overshadow them being called a Mary Sue or a Gary Stu.

[27X]

2 minutes ago, FauxFurry said:

She could be considered an Author Avatar but she still would not be a Mary Sue since she is the original protagonist of this remake (possible)franchise. I know that it is a bit pedantic for some peoples' liking but it is just a pet peeve of mine to see a character who is not shoehorned into another main characters series to overshadow them being called a Mary Sue or a Gary Stu.

Nope. Watch the video. Calling her "Mulan" does not make her Mulan. She is nothing like the poem.
 

[Darkpig]

5 minutes ago, 27X said:

Yeah she is. She is the rote definition of self insert, because she acts nothing like a chinese woman, period accurate or not. She acts like the woke-whitewash version of chinese  superher-o. Literaly Mary Sue; courtedy of an actual chinese filmaker. Every writer on this film is twenty something white person, all four of whom can't even get the poem this is based on correct, much less historically accurate themes.

Damn. I was hoping to avoid talking about words and their definitions. Now the philosophers are going to come in and kill all the fun.

[Canaris]

>Mulan isnt Mary Sue

Bruh please, she literally ticks every box on a Mary Sue checklist apart from weird animal sidekick and unusual hair colour.

 

Unlike the original one.

Actress praising Chienese gov for Hong Kong is just icing on the cake.

[FauxFurry]

15 minutes ago, 27X said:

Nope. Watch the video. Calling her "Mulan" does not make her Mulan. She is nothing like the poem.
 

She is Disney's Mulan Mark 2 (or should that be Disney's Mulan 1.0001?).

Spoiler

 

That still makes her the 'original' (I am using the loosest sense of the word here) main character of this derivative story produced by random Disney corporate storytelling group drones, just not the original Hua Mulan. 

Okay, I'll admit that being pedantic can be amusing sometimes. That will be enough of that (for now). 

 

[FauxFurry]

22 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

Damn. I was hoping to avoid talking about words and their definitions. Now the philosophers are going to come in and kill all the fun.

That itself is all part of the fun, is it not?

[Darkpig]

Just now, FauxFurry said:

That itself is all part of the fun, is it not?

True.

2 minutes ago, FauxFurry said:

She is Disney's Mulan Mark 2 (or should that be Disney's Mulan 1.0001?).

  Reveal hidden contents

 

That still makes her the 'original' (I am using the loosest sense of the word here) main character of this derivative story produced by random Disney corporate storytelling group drones, just not the original Hua Mulan. 

Okay, I'll admit that being pedantic can be amusing sometimes. That will be enough of that (for now). 

 

Kind of like Thor. Not the Norse frat god Thor but the sexy beast Marvel Thor.

[27X]

20 minutes ago, FauxFurry said:

She is Disney's Mulan Mark 2 (or should that be Disney's Mulan 1.0001?).

Except she isn't.

[Darkpig]

4 minutes ago, 27X said:

Except she isn't.

Is this a copyright thing?

[FauxFurry]

10 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

True.

Kind of like Thor. Not the Norse frat god Thor but the sexy beast Marvel Thor.

Sure enough. They are legally distinct entities even though one is derived from the other. One could be pretty sure that fans of Marvel's Thor are not upset that Thor was not killed by a giant snake during the events of Ragnarok. They were upset that M.T. turned into a fat washed up mess in End Game, though.

Jane Foster Thor is a whole other can of worms. 

[Darkpig]

4 minutes ago, FauxFurry said:

Sure enough. They are legally distinct entities even though one is derived from the other. One could be pretty sure that fans of Marvel's Thor are not upset that Thor was not killed by a giant snake during the events of Ragnarok. They were upset that M.T. turned into a fat washed up mess in End Game, though.

Jane Foster Thor is a whole other can of worms.

I heard the Jane Foster Thor story was well written but that Thor Hammer is one fickle fuck. For example:

Spoiler

One moment Thor has it then Captain America then big daddy Thanos. Thanos who wants to wipe out half the universe gets it. Why?

Mad respect for Thanos though. Not sad movie Thanos but comics Thanos who wants to bang death.

[FauxFurry]

10 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

I heard the Jane Foster Thor story was well written but that Thor Hammer is one fickle fuck. For example:

  Reveal hidden contents

One moment Thor has it then Captain America then big daddy Thanos. Thanos who wants to wipe out half the universe gets it. Why?

Mad respect for Thanos though. Not sad movie Thanos but comics Thanos who wants to bang death.

I have to wonder what Comics Thanos would think about this songs:

 

[Darkpig]

15 minutes ago, FauxFurry said:

I have to wonder what Comics Thanos would think about this songs:

 

Um... I watched Gurren Lagann. That is kind of like Evangelion.

[RitualClarity]

9 hours ago, FauxFurry said:

It is difficult to say whether or not the movie really qualifies as 'woke' since there is little that the presumed target audience can identify with in the protagonist other than her gender. She gets where she ends up due to being extremely gifted naturally rather than clever and determined.

 

Possibly one of the only things wrong in this video is the use of the label 'Mary Sue' as that label refers to new female characters introduced into a preexisting series who disregards or outright breaks many if not all of the pre-established rules of the franchise related to competence and capability of characters in the setting. The same main character given a tweak in a remake is not the same thing as a late series addition who clashes horribly with everything in the setting.

That is why Lina Inverse is not seen as a Mary Sue even though she is likely more powerful than Rey from the new Star Wars trilogy.

It is also because of other characters' reactions to Lina which definitely do not fall into either blind acceptance/adoration or reluctance to see how great they are which only lasts until the Mary Sue shows that character how great she is.

 

Ive read an article (never really watched either. Did see the cartoon parts and such but not intentionally ) I heard they had more of an opportunity with the guy that she is interacting with. The original .. apparently shown that he was interested in her...e ven when she was presenting as a male.  Possible bisexual character. Apparently they didn't follow this for the live version. This is the problem with SJW and productions now.  They want to shove it down our throats with meaningless useless examples of characters, but when they have an opportunity to really write something or add to a character reasonably ... they don't.  Now I didn't see them only going from what was written elsewhere. As far as I know that is a can of shit as well and they did write it (just not strong enough for the writer I read)  I am stil not going to see ... this or that Cuties thing....

[RitualClarity]

5 hours ago, Darkpig said:

I heard the Jane Foster Thor story was well written but that Thor Hammer is one fickle fuck. For example:

  Hide contents

One moment Thor has it then Captain America then big daddy Thanos. Thanos who wants to wipe out half the universe gets it. Why?

Mad respect for Thanos though. Not sad movie Thanos but comics Thanos who wants to bang death.

Thanos gets it I would guess because his heart is in the right place. He wants to alleviate suffering and help the universe.  He has conviction and willing to self sacrifice himself for it.  If it wasn't for his decision that killing half the universe, he would be a terrific hero.   I would suspect that Thor's hammer doesn't have the ability to think that far so it choose Thanos due to what he is trying to accomplish.