[ARTICLE] Gamestar.de about LoversLab and sex in video games

[worik]

40 minutes ago, landess said:

What are those yellow fruits/veggies? This whole off topic food thing is makin' me hungry.

This one?

On 1/23/2019 at 11:32 AM, winny257 said:

Spoiler

 

Looks like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knödel

Eat 5 of them or ask the bouncer to kick you in the stomach, the result is the same. The bouncer achieves it quicker, but the other way tastes better.

 

Edit: *sigh* winny was quicker

[donttouchmethere]

2 hours ago, worik said:

Eat 5 of them or ask the bouncer to kick you in the stomach, the result is the same. The bouncer achieves it quicker, but the other way tastes better.

?

now I want to visit Munich just to get a Haxn

(just grab 5 1l beer tubs instead of the 5 Knödel)

[landess]

Thanks worik and winny257 - I learned something new, but now I'm even more hungry.

 

Guess I better get dressed before heading out to get something.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Nazzzgul666]

56 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

?

now I wan't to visit Munich just to get a Haxn

(just grab 5 1l beer tubs instead of the 5 Knödel)

Still similar results.^^ I'd rather suggest to get two of both, that's a lot more fun afterwards

[winny257]

1 hour ago, worik said:

This one?

Looks like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knödel

Eat 5 of them or ask the bouncer to kick you in the stomach, the result is the same. The bouncer achieves it quicker, but the other way tastes better.

 

Edit: *sigh* winny was quicker 

not right, between dumplings and potato dumplings there is a huge difference.
Dumplings are made by buns, therefore is the correct term bread dumplings.
potato dumplings says it already, are made only from potatoes.
Shit English, here called all dumplings. 

 

Ger: 

Nicht richtig, zwischen Knödeln und Kartoffelklößen gibt es einen großen Unterschied.
Knödel werden aus Brötchen hergestellt, daher ist der richtige Begriff Semmelknödel.
Kartoffelklöße sagt es schon, werden nur aus Kartoffeln hergestellt.
Scheiße Englisch, hier heißt alles Knödel. ?

 

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thüringer_Klöße

[winny257]

23 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Still similar results.^^ I'd rather suggest to get two of both, that's a lot more fun afterwards 

two are too little, the throat stays dry ?

[worik]

14 minutes ago, winny257 said:

 

I couldn't see that from the picture I thought it was the potato version. The english wiki has it under "varieties"

[landess]

Thanks winny257, now I'm thirsty and horny, but at least I'm not hungry anymore....?

[winny257]

2 hours ago, landess said:

Thanks winny257, now I'm thirsty and horny, but at least I'm not hungry anymore....?

Here you do not need beer, Bavarian girl with wood in front the huts. 

 

Spoiler

[Pork Type]

 

Hey, who remembers THIS mini-controversy?

 

[Guffel]

Here something about the actual article  

 

I think it gives a nicely neutral overview about the sex modding scene for someone who doesn't know it and it refrains from any kind of judgement. It tents to let the action of the modders speak for themselves.

 

Personally I like the conclusion, I thinks it's very good assessment of the situation of the scene: the sex animations are strongly inspired by porn and broadly implemented, but the sensual and subtle aspect of love and erotic is missing.

 

What I read between the lines is, that rather few people are responsible for certain fetishes, that not everybody likes. But in general the most users want sex in a broader context, with a story around it, so that it can become part of the character history. Does anybody agree? 

 

That leads me to the question, why is the more sensual side of sex modding missing? Or better, what would be needed to make it happen?

I think on one hand it's just more difficult technically as well as creatively.

But on the other hand I also think that most game aren't made for that kind of "zoomed in" level of detail. The NPCs are little less than placeholders to fill in the void in the villages and to deliver quests.

 

When I was playing Skyrim the first time, before I knew modding was thing, I just rushed from quest to quest to complete them and hear the story. And for that the NPCs where complex enough. But when you try the creation more complex relationships with the NPCs like in the vanilla marriage, the article mentioned, or being enslaved by a mod or even the normal traveling with companions, it gets dull quickly. The NPC have too simple behavior and only a few lines to say. 

 

I think that the games itself don't offer that level of complexity by themselves. Maybe they have a different target audience or they just want to be as shallow as possible to reduce workload. 

 

I tried to tackle that problem with my mod RDS and give every NPC something to say from a large word-pool. With mixed success. The mod is not as popular as the more graphic ones but the people that like it, seem to really like it.

 

Anyway that were just my thoughts on that topic

[Nazzzgul666]

On 1/28/2019 at 7:26 PM, Guffel said:

That leads me to the question, why is the more sensual side of sex modding missing? Or better, what would be needed to make it happen?

I think on one hand it's just more difficult technically as well as creatively.

 

I partly agree. Where i disagree is that it doesn't exist, and that the mods not doing it are just for the visuals. I use mods like Defeat and Devious followers for the gameplay in the first place and atmosphere second, the dialogues aren't extraordinary but imho if you consider they're quite repetetive on purpose, they're pretty good.

Atmosphere is (at least almost) equally important to me as story and they do a good job when you don't want to play the mighty dragonborn but a poor girl in a harsh world.

Quest mods like Get Stripped, Thief, Isle of Mara, Amorous Adventures and a couple of others have great dialogues and atmosphere and story, imho way better than (most) vanilla quests but "suffer" from the same problem: you already know the story, you may want to replay them once or more but at some point it's not that intresting to play them once more.

 

So to keep them intresting modders need to constantly update them, plus the dialogues and settings have to be on point to make them good and keeping that in mind i agree that it's more work to create them, with less people who consider them a "must have in every playthrough". Not sure if they're technically more difficult, i didn't try myself. 

[landess]

4 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

So to keep them intresting modders need to constantly update them, plus the dialogues and settings have to be on point to make them good and keeping that in mind i agree that it's more work to create them, with less people who consider them a "must have in every playthrough". Not sure if they're technically more difficult, i didn't try myself.

While script mods are an important framework, if done correctly, they have events which are easily 'hooked' into by other creators. This allows a companion creator to fullfill concepts that would be too overwhelming for a framework creator.

 

I think the companion Ivy is an excellent example. Not meant to be used in conjunction with other companions, works well with most mods, and is unique enough to really add something to the game (FO4). I couldn't see a sex framework creator going into this much detail - times x amount - for all possible events.

[FauxFurry]

The article's author missed Mia's animations for The Sims 4 and the M2M animations and 0SEX/OSA for Skyrim. Too bad. Oh, well. Maybe next time.

[Swiftstep]

edit: nevermind, hit the wrong button, replied to the wrong entry.

Enjoy your weekend, if you have one.

[wokking56]

The article states:
[Lydia travels all of Skyrim with the hero dragging blades, armor, gold, and prey, plunging into battle as giants swing their clubs and dragons fill wide ravines with fire. Lydia is always at the side of the hero. Lydia, the steely-looking North woman, is not a simple companion, not an ordinary character, she's a friend, a partner, a ... lover? With an amulet of Mara in hand, the hero embarks on a new adventure. He tells Lydia about his feelings and asks for her hand. She says yes. And then? With the marriage ends in any romantic crackle and replaces it with brutal banal everyday life. Every day, Lydia cooks a meal, lives in a house and buys players prey. The Dovakhiin and Lydia, might as well just be roommates.]
While this is mostly true without mods there is no romantic banter in the first place and due to a bug no marriage. Sure she will follow me everywhere and carry all my crap but conversation is limited, mostly where we are or the occasional snide remark about carrying my burdens. However I will agree that after the marriage it becomes rather tedious "here eat this I will have more tomorrow" or "I made a small profit here's your share". Not very romantic at all.

 

Article:
[In Sims there is no sex, there is Woohoo. And Woohoo have adult Sims under the covers. When a naked member peeks out, it is immediately pixelated. Except when you use the mod. Then Sims have sex everywhere. In the shower, on the kitchen counter, in the toilet, in the park, on the beach, on the couch, on the floor, and, yes, sometimes in bed. They sleep together in all imaginable positions and in all possible constellations. Good birthday parties become orgies and walks in the park are interrupted by copulating neighbors. Everything is visible. Erect penises, hard-nipples, teetering breasts, bare butt, spurting body fluids. The classic conversation menu of The Sims is extended in the mod to a lot of sex options.]
And we find this surprising,why? In my (admittedly limited) experience all these things actually happen in real life so why not in my game. All the conversation options aren't just about sex, there is jobs, entertainment and much more that has been added also.

 

Article:
["The Sims 4 had been out there for two years," says the modder. "And it still had no official sex content. So I first looked for mods and found a lot: sex animations, nude patches, this and that. "]
DUH, there is never going to be "official sex content" these companies want to maintain a specific rating so they can sell to the widest possible audience.

 

Article"
[But today LoversLab is much more. It's the first stop for modders who bring sex into games. Here the community discusses the latest versions, asks for help and feedback and finds downloads for Skyrim, The Sims, Fallout, even for otherwise rather unsexy strategy games, such as Stellaris mods. The article deals with the many questionable mods that can be found on LoversLab. Mods that let the Skyrim hero rape his opponents or allow him to have sex with all sorts of monsters and animals. In short, acts that are punishable in the real world (at least in Germany).]
It's not just about sex there are so many other mods that add content and atmosphere. Defeat, Death Alternative, Sktrim Unhinged "I think" (adds random battles) and many more. While I agree with this German journalist rape and bestiality are indeed frowned upon in most places there are however areas where one or the other is accepted.

 

Article:
[TBOS is gay and part of the big fallout sex mod scene. He creates male fetish clothes and figures for Fallout 4. And he has a problem with this scene.  "I want to be honest: most mods are aimed at hetero-men."]
While this is true the only thing stunting development of LGBT mods is a lack of LGBT modders willing to create content. There is no rule precluding this content merely a lack of creators.

 

[Inajira]

11 hours ago, wokking56 said:

The article states:
[Lydia travels all of Skyrim with the hero dragging blades, armor, gold, and prey, plunging into battle as giants swing their clubs and dragons fill wide ravines with fire. Lydia is always at the side of the hero. Lydia, the steely-looking North woman, is not a simple companion, not an ordinary character, she's a friend, a partner, a ... lover? With an amulet of Mara in hand, the hero embarks on a new adventure. He tells Lydia about his feelings and asks for her hand. She says yes. And then? With the marriage ends in any romantic crackle and replaces it with brutal banal everyday life. Every day, Lydia cooks a meal, lives in a house and buys players prey. The Dovakhiin and Lydia, might as well just be roommates.]
While this is mostly true without mods there is no romantic banter in the first place and due to a bug no marriage. Sure she will follow me everywhere and carry all my crap but conversation is limited, mostly where we are or the occasional snide remark about carrying my burdens. However I will agree that after the marriage it becomes rather tedious "here eat this I will have more tomorrow" or "I made a small profit here's your share". Not very romantic at all.

 

Article:
[In Sims there is no sex, there is Woohoo. And Woohoo have adult Sims under the covers. When a naked member peeks out, it is immediately pixelated. Except when you use the mod. Then Sims have sex everywhere. In the shower, on the kitchen counter, in the toilet, in the park, on the beach, on the couch, on the floor, and, yes, sometimes in bed. They sleep together in all imaginable positions and in all possible constellations. Good birthday parties become orgies and walks in the park are interrupted by copulating neighbors. Everything is visible. Erect penises, hard-nipples, teetering breasts, bare butt, spurting body fluids. The classic conversation menu of The Sims is extended in the mod to a lot of sex options.]
And we find this surprising,why? In my (admittedly limited) experience all these things actually happen in real life so why not in my game. All the conversation options aren't just about sex, there is jobs, entertainment and much more that has been added also.

 

Article:
["The Sims 4 had been out there for two years," says the modder. "And it still had no official sex content. So I first looked for mods and found a lot: sex animations, nude patches, this and that. "]
DUH, there is never going to be "official sex content" these companies want to maintain a specific rating so they can sell to the widest possible audience.

 

Article"
[But today LoversLab is much more. It's the first stop for modders who bring sex into games. Here the community discusses the latest versions, asks for help and feedback and finds downloads for Skyrim, The Sims, Fallout, even for otherwise rather unsexy strategy games, such as Stellaris mods. The article deals with the many questionable mods that can be found on LoversLab. Mods that let the Skyrim hero rape his opponents or allow him to have sex with all sorts of monsters and animals. In short, acts that are punishable in the real world (at least in Germany).]
It's not just about sex there are so many other mods that add content and atmosphere. Defeat, Death Alternative, Sktrim Unhinged "I think" (adds random battles) and many more. While I agree with this German journalist rape and bestiality are indeed frowned upon in most places there are however areas where one or the other is accepted.

 

Article:
[TBOS is gay and part of the big fallout sex mod scene. He creates male fetish clothes and figures for Fallout 4. And he has a problem with this scene.  "I want to be honest: most mods are aimed at hetero-men."]
While this is true the only thing stunting development of LGBT mods is a lack of LGBT modders willing to create content. There is no rule precluding this content merely a lack of creators.

 

I agree with all your points. People need to understand people. It's in real life so we want it in the game, why not? These reviewers also do a poor job of investigating this scene. I can't believe it's that hard to get a bunch of mods working just because they're "sex mods". Its like they don't even try.

[worik]

11 hours ago, wokking56 said:

It's not just about sex there are so many other mods that add content and atmosphere. Defeat, Death Alternative, Sktrim Unhinged "I think" (adds random battles) and many more. While I agree with this German journalist rape and bestiality are indeed frowned upon in most places there are however areas where one or the other is accepted.

At least it is a refreshing thought that they wrote and commented about it at all.  But don't bother too much about it. 

Murdering people is basically ruled out in most countries by their rulers, excpet when sponsored by the the same rulers.

Yet, the most sucessful games in the last 3 decades go about doing exactly that.

*YAAAAWN*  ..*sleepy* And don't get me started about books or movies.....

 

Spoiler

Funny side effect, my local crime report states that homicide and the like are at all-time lows since recordings began. Double fun: finding anyone to put in front of the judge is at the same sinking all-time low....  Rising ethics in society, albeit heavy social turbulences in contrast to sinking competence of the rulers. ? Back to sleep.

 

[TheBottomhoodofSteel]

On 2/9/2019 at 3:36 PM, wokking56 said:

 

Article:
[TBOS is gay and part of the big fallout sex mod scene. He creates male fetish clothes and figures for Fallout 4. And he has a problem with this scene.  "I want to be honest: most mods are aimed at hetero-men."]
While this is true the only thing stunting development of LGBT mods is a lack of LGBT modders willing to create content. There is no rule precluding this content merely a lack of creators.

 

That would be great, but considering the amount of hate most LGBT creators get when we create mods for ourselves (anyone remember the mess of the LGBT family mod... The one where people talked about comitting genocide to gays and repeating the Tragedy in Orlando again... Or even the mess around Pride 76, more recently...) It's hard to say that "Well if you want this, why not make it" when most of the people who have tried to make it are inundated with bullshit or have people tryin to run them out for making content they wanted... 

 

It's not a lack of creators. It's a lack of creators willing to put up with the bullshit from the community at large... And Especially when uploading mods/content that doesn't cater to Either Heterosexual men or isn't about them... You can't say "Well there's no willing modders" when most of the willing modders have problems of getting ran out or inundated with hateful commentary. 

[FauxFurry]

5 minutes ago, TheBottomhoodofSteel said:

That would be great, but when there is LGBT content, it tends to get some really bad shit thrown at it and winds up with said creators being ran out or leaving because of the hateful shit they get. Anyone Remember the LGBT families mod that changed the gender of the Spouse around? Didn't that mod get death threats and other shit lobbed at it?

 

Can't say "Oh there needs to be more creators" when said creators get ran out or shat on for making content they wanna see in their games... 

That happens to pretty every mod maker who makes anything but the tamest of mods which tamper with nothing in the base game, only adding new content at some time or other.

 

A lot of my posts on the Nexus a few years back were actually in defense of modders creating content which appeals to heterosexuals, be it some sexy armors ( for both males and females) or those mods which add husbandos to the game such as Skyrim Romance, not just ones which are LGBT friendly. 

 

The only thing that matters in the end is whether or not one's detractors hold any sway over hosting services.

[TheBottomhoodofSteel]

30 minutes ago, FauxFurry said:

That happens to pretty every mod maker who makes anything but the tamest of mods which tamper with nothing in the base game, only adding new content at some time or other.

 

A lot of my posts on the Nexus a few years back were actually in defense of modders creating content which appeals to heterosexuals, be it some sexy armors ( for both males and females) or those mods which add husbandos to the game such as Skyrim Romance, not just ones which are LGBT friendly. 

 

The only thing that matters in the end is whether or not one's detractors hold any sway over hosting services.

In the Case of places like here or Nexus... Many of us tend to feel that Our detractors have more a place and say with moderation/hosting than we do, so Most of us tend to pull back into places where we won't deal with hateful bullshit. 

 

Like noted the commentary was very reuductive of the situation and the complexity of it. It's hard to make mods as a gay modder when you watch the shit people who made the same thing put up with to just go out there and want to make or release content knowing there's gonna be a big chance you'll get the same treatment. and with the lack of trust in moderation because it feels like they are just following the people who make them the most money rather than doing actual enforcement work, it's logical to conclude why there's such a lack... 

[FauxFurry]

24 minutes ago, TheBottomhoodofSteel said:

In the Case of places like here or Nexus... Many of us tend to feel that Our detractors have more a place and say with moderation/hosting than we do, so Most of us tend to pull back into places where we won't deal with hateful bullshit. 

 

Like noted the commentary was very reuductive of the situation and the complexity of it. It's hard to make mods as a gay modder when you watch the shit people who made the same thing put up with to just go out there and want to make or release content knowing there's gonna be a big chance you'll get the same treatment. and with the lack of trust in moderation because it feels like they are just following the people who make them the most money rather than doing actual enforcement work, it's logical to conclude why there's such a lack... 

There is no money to be made off of not being LGBT friendly on any gaming related site out there or for that matter, on nearly every entertainment site on the internet. If anything, not being LGBT friendly can draw heaps of negative attention and protest, hence the scramble to prove corporate Progressive bonafides in so many of the mainstream advertisements these days.

 

There aren't going to be any moderators taking sides with anyone who can risk drawing any negative heat to any but the most niche of sites, either. They will crack down on sexuality in general if they think that they will avoid further headaches down the road.

It took until 2018 for them to loosen up enough to finally be able to so much as mention LoversLab or to readily post NSFW images again after they were trying to 'clean up' the site regardless of the sexuality being catered to.

 

Most likely the lack of LGBT modders comes down to: 1. The simple fact that LGBT individuals make up the minority of the population. 2. Most modder burn out due to negative feedback or lack of feedback at all fairly quickly. 

[GrimReaper]

As FauxFurry has pointed out, there's a lot of hate mod makers get no matter the content or person behind the mod. There's anime-like mods for Rimworld on the workshop and you can't find a page of comments with something like 'fucking weebs kys'. Colourwheel, a female modder for Oblivion back in the day had a knack for skimpy content and she got harassed because people told her it's not appropiate for a girl to make such content. Modders in general get often attacked for making any sort of sexualized mods, getting called creepy basement-dwelling virgins and such all the time.

 

I won't deny that there's probably more hate depending on who is creating the mod and to what tastes the mod caters to, but it's an internet problem rather than the problem of a specific demographic. LGBT people are a tiny minority in every society, despite many people virtue signaling their support, the niche is pretty small all things considered. Even social activists won't consume LGBT content if it doesn't cater to their tastes. And since the vast majority of people is straight, the payout - whether it be endorsements, general interest or actual financial support via pateron - is pretty low, which can be horribly demoralizing on its own.

 

Considering that our brain emphasis negative experiences over positive ones, this can easily get to you. You can have dozens or hundreds of people thanking you for your work yet it only needs one dipshit being a dipshit to get you down sometimes. Not trying to downplay anyone's experiences, but our perception isn't perfect at best and can be severley warped at worst. For what it's worth, I think 'claiming' a problem that's enountered by many for your specific group alienates those that make the same or at least similar experiences but don't belong to the group you're 'claiming' that issue for. For example, someone in the tumblr-thread here on LL called the ban on adult content a LGBT-specific issue when it really wasn't.

[wokking56]

6 hours ago, TheBottomhoodofSteel said:

That would be great, but considering the amount of hate most LGBT creators get when we create mods for ourselves (anyone remember the mess of the LGBT family mod... The one where people talked about comitting genocide to gays and repeating the Tragedy in Orlando again... Or even the mess around Pride 76, more recently...) It's hard to say that "Well if you want this, why not make it" when most of the people who have tried to make it are inundated with bullshit or have people tryin to run them out for making content they wanted... 

Look I can feel your pain yet there are numerous other creators on this site that make content that is not exactly main-stream. While it is true that much of this is more hetero-centric content it is none the less "not the norm". We've got bestiality, rape, torture, BDSM, slavery and the like, and I have seen negative comments about each of those. If each of those creators had folded and quit because of some BS comments all we would be left with would be some boring ass Puritanical straight sex along the lines of "THE SIMS" woo hoo.

 

Beside most all of these a**hole talking crap on the internet shut right the F up in real life.

[27X]

9 hours ago, TheBottomhoodofSteel said:

In the Case of places like here or Nexus... Many of us tend to feel that Our detractors have more a place and say with moderation/hosting than we do, so Most of us tend to pull back into places where we won't deal with hateful bullshit. 

 

Like noted the commentary was very reuductive of the situation and the complexity of it. It's hard to make mods as a gay modder when you watch the shit people who made the same thing put up with to just go out there and want to make or release content knowing there's gonna be a big chance you'll get the same treatment. and with the lack of trust in moderation because it feels like they are just following the people who make them the most money rather than doing actual enforcement work, it's logical to conclude why there's such a lack... 

You're gonna have to post proof of any of that here.

 

You're asking for a walled garden, not a venue for honest critique. Making something same sex centric doesn't elevate it to godhood. Not even kinda.

 

And as for walled gardens, every one that been put up has fallen to prima donna bullshit and in-fighting, so your theory needs some serious back up and relevant data.