sse Paradise Halls Enhanced (pahe) Special Edition with the customary addons

[Pfiffy]

38 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

 

iirc that was the latest full release so it should support all 6 hookers, it just won't have the newer fixes in yet. don't know if pfiffy has made any changes on his end so i haven't sent out any newer full versions yet.

 

 

I had a bit of trouble following your changes, so I would like you to make a new pack with all your changes. That will the base for me to continue working on TDF. 

 

18 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

"Whores" would get my vote as the most immersive choice in the context of a world like Skyrim.  

As far as I can remember, TDF itself addresses the Hookers without naming any profession at all. It is simply 'you'. So any term used by the Pahe-patch will help to distinguish the 'regulars' from the 'slaves'. (I never felt like a devotee of Dibella... But we can make that difference here...) It should be somewhat degrading to enforce the status of the slaves. In the add-on we are getting back to the forced prostitution again (Nice little twist...). Are there any other terms for 'whore' that are more degrading?

 

[Antiope_Apollonia]

24 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

Are there any other terms for 'whore' that are more degrading?

In general, I think "whore" is the term that best fits the aesthetic of the old-timey fantasy world, and it has the advantage of also being both a noun and a verb.  But "harlot" is also an option with perhaps a bit more of a derogatory connotation.  Most words in this space have somewhat contextual connotations, though—prudes will look at any label for it as strongly negative, and libertines won't much mind whatever you call it.

 

For slaves, though, you might just focus on the slavery itself.  If you want a negative connotation, being any sort of slave puts you lower on the ladder than being any sort of freewoman, regardless of profession.  So you could just use simple labels like "slave", "sex slave", "pleasure slave", or "slave whore".

Edited May 28, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Martok73]

5 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

iirc that was the latest full release so it should support all 6 hookers, it just won't have the newer fixes in yet. don't know if pfiffy has made any changes on his end so i haven't sent out any newer full versions yet.

Cool, so what exactly is in the fixes? and what file do I need to add/download for those?

 

5 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

lol, no objection to changing sluts to hookers either...just was meant to shorten from prostitute

Awesome, sounds good mate Thank you

 

  

4 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

"Whores" would get my vote as the most immersive choice in the context of a world like Skyrim.  

That sounds good too, I think I made mention of that, can't remember, memory is shit these days.

 

  

4 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

Are there any other terms for 'whore' that are more degrading?

Pretty sure that's about as degrading as it gets for women in the sex trade. I do know that sometime in the 1800's America some folks referred to them as "paid ladies" But most gentlemen and upper class still used the term "whore" when referring to any woman in the sex trade.

 

Perhaps as to distinguish which ones were slaves and which ones were not, both terms could be used. Example "whore" could be used to refer to the slave prostitutes, and "hooker" could be used to refer to non-slave prostitutes. That would both distinguish between the two and still "shorten" it down from prostitutes.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Martok73

[Zach1736]

anyone knows how to disable follower and slave sex scene? it might cause a fatal bug that i can't talk to them anymore

[sickboy791]

4 hours ago, Zach1736 said:

anyone knows how to disable follower and slave sex scene? it might cause a fatal bug that i can't talk to them anymore

i´m not 100 % shure, but i guess that´s hsh, you can set follower aroused level to 100 to disable

 

Spoiler

 

[Pfiffy]

13 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Cool, so what exactly is in the fixes? and what file do I need to add/download for those?

 

Awesome, sounds good mate Thank you

 

  

That sounds good too, I think I made mention of that, can't remember, memory is shit these days.

 

  

Pretty sure that's about as degrading as it gets for women in the sex trade. I do know that sometime in the 1800's America some folks referred to them as "paid ladies" But most gentlemen and upper class still used the term "whore" when referring to any woman in the sex trade.

 

Perhaps as to distinguish which ones were slaves and which ones were not, both terms could be used. Example "whore" could be used to refer to the slave prostitutes, and "hooker" could be used to refer to non-slave prostitutes. That would both distinguish between the two and still "shorten" it down from prostitutes.

I will look it up, but I'm pretty sure, that we just talk about how we call the Slave hookers. I can't remember a dialogue in the original TDF that uses a term for the profession. 

[Antiope_Apollonia]

1 hour ago, Pfiffy said:

how we call the Slave hookers.

"Hooker" just sounds so out of place in a medieval fantasy world like Skyrim to my ear.  It's a term that originates from late-19th century U.S., which is a far cry from the setting Skyrim evokes.  And the original connotation is to the effect that immoral women are ensnaring—hooking—men who would otherwise be virtuous without their wicked temptation.  Which also just feels out of place in the context of the sexually permissive worlds that tend to be depicted by LoversLab modlists, especially when the prostitutes are slaves forced into the role whilst the clients are freemen.

 

Another term to consider in addition to whore and harlot would be strumpet.  But I'd say that's a term that's fallen so far out of the modern everyday vernacular that less nerdy folks might not know what to make of it, despite its rich literary pedigree, including The Bard himself.

[Pfiffy]

6 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

"Hooker" just sounds so out of place in a medieval fantasy world like Skyrim to my ear.  It's a term that originates from late-19th century U.S., which is a far cry from the setting Skyrim evokes.  And the original connotation is to the effect that immoral women are ensnaring—hooking—men who would otherwise be virtuous without their wicked temptation.  Which also just feels out of place in the context of the sexually permissive worlds that tend to be depicted by LoversLab modlists, especially when the prostitutes are slaves forced into the role whilst the clients are freemen.

 

Another term to consider in addition to whore and harlot would be strumpet.  But I'd say that's a term that's fallen so far out of the modern everyday vernacular that less nerdy folks might not know what to make of it, despite its rich literary pedigree, including The Bard himself.

'Hooker' is jut the term that is used internally. I think 'whore' will do for the Pahe-TDF-patch. 

[Pfiffy]

32 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

fixed(see below)

guessing they're referring to the new mcm page shown here:

dialogue fixes for winterhold city whores and for firing city whores

• also reviewed the missing script properties of the hirefire script applied to the hooker control quest
• slave patch now has 2 options to choose from, but switching patch versions mid-save won't erase any bugs if the friendly version is chosen. dialogues don't show names for non-uniques if the new version is chosen--this leaves the choice to the user which bug they can live with until a better solution comes along

TDF20220529.zip 61.41 MB · 0 downloads

Ok, I will check all Quests for the 'store-dialogue-option' and see if I can make the new dialogues better. 

[CliftonJD]

23 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

"Whores" would get my vote as the most immersive choice in the context of a world like Skyrim.  

oops, should have retested it before i uploaded it

19 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Cool, so what exactly is in the fixes? and what file do I need to add/download for those?

 

Awesome, sounds good mate Thank you

 

  

That sounds good too, I think I made mention of that, can't remember, memory is shit these days.

 

  

Pretty sure that's about as degrading as it gets for women in the sex trade. I do know that sometime in the 1800's America some folks referred to them as "paid ladies" But most gentlemen and upper class still used the term "whore" when referring to any woman in the sex trade.

 

Perhaps as to distinguish which ones were slaves and which ones were not, both terms could be used. Example "whore" could be used to refer to the slave prostitutes, and "hooker" could be used to refer to non-slave prostitutes. That would both distinguish between the two and still "shorten" it down from prostitutes.

if you downloaded it already, get this instead

9 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

Ok, I will check all Quests for the 'store-dialogue-option' and see if I can make the new dialogues better. 

seems the scripts don't like the change from sluts to whores mid-save, had to restore the previous version mcm script. the translation files for that however have no problem changing mid-save:

TDF20220529_v2.7z

[Farsh-nuke]

For what it's worth of the options being discussed 'whore' would get my vote as I am friends with a woman that loves skyrim and very proudly had "The Whore" as part of her twitter handle for a while lol

[Pfiffy]

The friendly-bug version of the patch is much smaller than the bug free version. Is this ok? 

 

Ok... The dialogues are rewoked, 'store-dialogue-option' removed and removed another essential flag in the pimpingquest6. 

 

 

 

TDF20220530_v2.7z

Edited May 30, 2022 by Pfiffy

[CliftonJD]

16 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

The friendly-bug version of the patch is much smaller than the bug free version. Is this ok? 

 

Ok... The dialogues are rewoked, 'store-dialogue-option' removed and removed another essential flag in the pimpingquest6. 

 

 

 

TDF20220530_v2.7z 37.83 MB · 1 download

the friendly bug version is smaller cuz the bug free version has the quest overwrites you had said previously the main mod doesn't need, which makes sense cuz you can't get the bug using only uniques. bug free version also contains dialogue overwrites preventing uniques from using the non-uniques slots. if you've decided to make those changes to the main mod instead, the second patch won't have any effect, so i'll need to rework the patch to clean up excess data

[Zach1736]

On 5/29/2022 at 6:58 PM, sickboy791 said:

i´m not 100 % shure, but i guess that´s hsh, you can set follower aroused level to 100 to disable

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

thank you, it worked

[Pfiffy]

7 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

the friendly bug version is smaller cuz the bug free version has the quest overwrites you had said previously the main mod doesn't need, which makes sense cuz you can't get the bug using only uniques. bug free version also contains dialogue overwrites preventing uniques from using the non-uniques slots. if you've decided to make those changes to the main mod instead, the second patch won't have any effect, so i'll need to rework the patch to clean up excess data

Ah... I was a bit confused about the large differences in the file sizes between the two packages and the two patches. I just wanted to make sure, that I have the right files. I'm also not sure which version of the patch i should install right now.  Is it still possible to add 6 unique Slaves in the bug free version?

Well, TDF is not made for playing it with Pahe Slaves in the first place, so it is a question of the Data load without Pahe...

 

How far will we expand the patch? Will this just make it possible to turn Slaves into prostitutes, or will we end up in some sort of stand-alone TDF-for-PAHE edition that will run  beside TDF and /or without it? Is there a demand for this?

 

We can add further Free Hooker Slots just for the Slaves first, and then add separate slots for the Cities and Inns and a separate MCM page for the slaves...

 

or merge the patch into the main mod, rewrite the dialogues and make it a stand alone, maybe with a bridge to the original mod, so that the 'Hookers' and the 'Whores' can interact....  

 

 

[CliftonJD]

7 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

merge the patch into the main mod, rewrite the dialogues and make it a stand alone, maybe with a bridge to the original mod, so that the 'Hookers' and the 'Whores' can interact....  

right now they already interact with each other in 3-somes or in honing their skills so merging it would only mean making the main mod require pahe to reduce the esp count

7 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

I'm also not sure which version of the patch i should install right now.  Is it still possible to add 6 unique Slaves in the bug free version?

are you talking about making the 6 hookers we already have as unique only or adding 6 more as unique only

7 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

Ah... I was a bit confused about the large differences in the file sizes between the two packages and the two patches. I just wanted to make sure, that I have the right files. I'm also not sure which version of the patch i should install right now. 

looked over your new version yesterday so the 2 patches are both free of the friendly bug with it. the 2 patch versions pretty much boil down to a choice of 6 of any hookers/whores or only 3 uniques and 3 non-uniques. the patch labeled as "slave patch with friendly bug" now has the bug contained by the main mod and still gives the option to mix and match any 6 hookers or whores. when deciding which patch to use with the new tdf, its best to start with that version of the patch and train up your slaves to make use of the 6 hooker slots first

 

eventually as you reach the 3rd and 4th whores and get them busy you'll come to realize why i made the other patch as 3non-uniques and 3 uniques. 3-way scenes and watcher scenes tend to bug out frequently as in nothing happens when those scenes are called, only rare occasions tend to work as intended

8 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

Well, TDF is not made for playing it with Pahe Slaves in the first place, so it is a question of the Data load without Pahe...

 

How far will we expand the patch? Will this just make it possible to turn Slaves into prostitutes, or will we end up in some sort of stand-alone TDF-for-PAHE edition that will run  beside TDF and /or without it? Is there a demand for this?

without pahe i doubt there's any use for the dialogue to exist on non-uniques cuz that's mostly only guards or soldiers who aren't also hostile

8 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

separate MCM page for the slaves...

thought about a separate whore page, but decided it might just make things more confusing reviewing who you have stationed where

8 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

We can add further Free Hooker Slots just for the Slaves first

for this it might be best for you to watch the behavior of the 6 we have first. then if you think we should add more, we keep the 3and 3 method(combined total of 6), but add 3 uniques to that for total 3 non-uniques and 6 uniques(combined total of 9). 

8 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

then add separate slots for the Cities and Inns

if i'm right about the quest marker saving data as matching the behavior i noticed in the past, there won't be a need to separate the cities and inns. so if you want more slots, just add more slots for all to share

[Pfiffy]

It feels like we are talking about 2 different things now. 

 

State now is that you can use Slaves as TDF prostitutes instead of followers or friends. 

 

We can keep it this way, (Simple Solution)

 

or

 

expand this in a way that you can use Slaves in addition to the followers, so that they don't fill the original slots. 

 

or

 

we merge the add-on into TDF and make a separate independent Slaves-only-mod. (like HSH or AYGAS)

[CliftonJD]

4 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

t feels like we are talking about 2 different things now. 

 

State now is that you can use Slaves as TDF prostitutes instead of followers or friends. 

 

We can keep it this way, (Simple Solution)

not really sure which dialogues you've changed so i'll show a file comparison from xedit:

follower dialogue first: 

left is the current tdf, middle is the previous version, and to the right is the slave addon. dialogue for followers is unchanged for tdf new versus old. same thing in game if i disable the slave patch and only use the newer tdf: 

next we have the bribery topics for uniques in game without the slave addon: 

48 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

or

 

expand this in a way that you can use Slaves in addition to the followers, so that they don't fill the original slots. 

this is where your results can vary based on which slave patch you use with this version of tdf. no slave patch added means you get all the same hookers as the base mod had, but with no names in dialogues. use the "slave patch with friendly bug" to test how the mod behaves with all 6 slaves as options, but you're still not limited to only slaves. after using it long enough to get a feel for how the mod behaves with more than 2 or 3 slaves as hookers, you can start testing it with the other slave addon

 

the slave addon labeled as "slave patch with out friendly bug" has dialogue restrictions to allow for ONLY 3 non-unique slaves as prostitutes and ONLY 3 uniques as prostitutes. the 3 slots setup for non-uniques have dialogue restrictions preventing them from being filled by uniques. the 3 uniques are also not limited to slaves only, so you can mix and match unique vanilla or unique modded npc or unique slaves, but they won't allow non-uniques to fill those 3 slots.  if we want more than those 3 and 3, i'd suggest we can make 3 more slots as uniques only since the bugs only exist on non-uniques

[Pfiffy]

I'm talking about the City/Inn/Freehooker slots. I think that having more than 6 active Hookers following you is too much. Just remember the trouble we had to add the last 3.

 

Right now Slaves and Hookers share the existing working places. Should we add some just for the Slaves?

 

 

 

[CliftonJD]

3 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

I'm talking about the City/Inn/Freehooker slots. I think that having more than 6 active Hookers following you is too much. Just remember the trouble we had to add the last 3.

 

Right now Slaves and Hookers share the existing working places. Should we add some just for the Slaves?

 

 

 

since we don't have the quest markers to save any data from the slave to the quest in cities or inns or free ranger hookers, i doubt we need to change any of those from how they were. best to leave them for all to use and test the follower hookers with these changes...consider changing the cities after testing the follower hookers enough to run into their respawn double to see if the friendly bug is fixed. think that's over 50 hooker slots reserved for cities/inns and free range

[Antiope_Apollonia]

1 hour ago, Pfiffy said:

We can keep it this way, (Simple Solution) [or] expand this in a way that you can use Slaves in addition to the followers, so that they don't fill the original slots [or] we merge the add-on into TDF and make a separate independent Slaves-only-mod. (like HSH or AYGAS)

I'm just one data point—and not a particularly important one, since I'm not really your key target demographic—but for what it's worth, I might be interested in trying it out with slaves once you get everything working, but I can't see myself ever having any use for it with followers.  

[CliftonJD]

1 hour ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I'm just one data point—and not a particularly important one, since I'm not really your key target demographic—but for what it's worth, I might be interested in trying it out with slaves once you get everything working, but I can't see myself ever having any use for it with followers.  

the version i posted on the 29th so far seems to be working with slaves and followers. only allowed 3 non-uniques and 3 uniques with a small caveat to non-uniques. it seems the dialogues that were showing console names in previous versions were creating an unintended side-effect when used on non-unique slaves, the respawns would be allied to the player. to fix this bug, non-uniques no longer show that name in the dialogue, instead we see [...] additionally those whores tend to bug out 3way scenes and watcher scenes when you have 3 or more non-uniques, so far 2 seems ok with the scenes, but mostly we need testers now. Pfiffy added an update to that yesterday, but that's mostly untested

 

think in the future we need to crack the code on a method of pointing out the whore to fix the name bugs in dialogue

[CliftonJD]

update 8.1.3:

• astrid should have all quest dialogues ready now
• some changes to roadside cicero dialogues between quest stages to allow full conversation with other mods when ever possible. quest dialogues at these stages also moved to a new topic "you had something to tell me?"
• inter-mod communication between addons slightly adjusted(this is the stage i would consider beta)
• stuff( forget what else i changed here)

update 8.1.4:

• fixes to road-side cicero to return the first topic to the quest dialogues, but allow normal speaking after the quest is accepted until the quest is completed--haven't been able to find a solution to cicero dialogues after the quest is completed
• slave info spell adjusted to work with home sweet home slaves
• fix/change to the sex/rape script to remove the forced zap animations for tied slaves so tied slaves should get the same animations as other slaves
• fix to slaves without valid pahe mood not having any sex dialogues--this is for dom users only since pahe can't get in this situation
• fix/change to gag detection when gagging slaves to remove the vampire cattle voice from nords
• change/added vampire thrall faction now has a toggle incase the gag detection isn't enough or doesn't work as intended
• change/added new toggle to set default naked outfit to uniques only
• change/added new feature to export or import most mcm settings to and from json--if you find a setting you prefer to be added to the export/import, suggestions or requests can be made to expand these saved settings
• updated french, german, and spanish mcm translations using Microsoft Translator
• more stuff (forget what else i changed here or does this finally cover all the changes with this update)

[Antiope_Apollonia]

Am I missing something?  8.1.4 seems to be 8.1.2, just with the archive renamed.  The MCM still says 8.1.2, and nothing appears to be different.

 

(Using the à la carte download.)

 

Does it need to wait for DoM to do something to incorporate the MCM changes?

Edited June 1, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Pfiffy]

10 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

since we don't have the quest markers to save any data from the slave to the quest in cities or inns or free ranger hookers, i doubt we need to change any of those from how they were. best to leave them for all to use and test the follower hookers with these changes...consider changing the cities after testing the follower hookers enough to run into their respawn double to see if the friendly bug is fixed. think that's over 50 hooker slots reserved for cities/inns and free range

Dialogue Changes: I just rewrote the dialogue lines for the Inn Hookers. It's just a bit of polishing. It will not have any effect. 

Other Changes: Removed the 'store-dialoge' option everywhere I found it. It was just in the pimping quests. In pimpingquest6 there was also an essential flag. that I removed.

 

I'm going to upload the new version on the TDF page to get some more feed-back about the general functionality, but this will not give us much information about the slaves.

 

For my way of playing it would be important to use all 6 slots for unique NPC's. Is there a way of limiting the generics to 3 without limiting the uniques?

 

Any Suggestions about Quests/Locations where I will run into the bug?