Mod Rewards on Nexus?

[KoolHndLuke]

Yep, I just found out about it on Nexus. Mod rewards for unique downloads of your mods. You get points or "DP" that you can turn in at their store for *rewards*. Some of those rewards put cash in your pocket paid by Nexus. Funny thing is that I was asking for permission to use assets from another author and the first thing he/she said is "Sure, as long as you give me a fair share of the reward points!". I mean, how am I supposed to calculate what percentage he/she should get for me to use a few of his/hers meshes and textures out of dozens or hundreds I was going to use? Now I have to negotiate with everyone? Not so sure this is going to foster any more "sharing" in the community there, but, whatever.?

[ToJKa]

...Well, it's a good thing Bethesda's game have deteriorated enough to not bother with them anymore.

 

We had fun with the games and mods, but like everything in life that too turned into shit.

 

Maybe i should develop a fetish for (proverbial) shit?

 

 

[KoolHndLuke]

The thing is that it is optional. So what do you do when you haven't opted in and someone wants a share of dp? Not everyone is fuckin greedy, are they? This leads me to think it was better when there wasn't a "pie" to share. Now it will be every man or woman for themselves. Did management over there flip their lids? I remember some people there complaining about crap mods taking up server space or something. Wonder how they're gonna like all the crap mods uploaded there now?

[Fakenet]

But you got the solution right there.

It's opt in, so if he wants 50% of your DP, which is 0, he will get 50% of 0 which stays 0.

 

Also yes, it's a brainfart. No idea what they are trying to accomplish. Maybe there are "too many" mods on sites that aren't the Nexus.

[tomomi1922]

Guys, try not only dwell on the negative side of things.  Nexus seems to head in a direction in hope to reward mod creators.  Even a little would brighten someone's day and offer some motivation.  Mod creation can be really tedious.  It is sometimes very thankless and prone to exposure of the bad side of the community: ungrateful, demanding, annoying, rude mod users who refuse to learn, read instructions, and do their parts.  They just expect a non-existence level of customer service as if they are paying $100/month membership fee.  

Naturally, things like what KoolHndLuke brought up can be a problem too.  Mod creators demand a royalty fee but there is no proper way of calculating such thing, as of now.  

However, I believe we should applaud progress and overlook the early struggle.  Maybe Nexus will adopt certain models of profit sharing.  Like books or movies, there are systems in place to calculate royalty (and government regulations) so that all parties involved (at least the essential parties) would get royalty payout over the years when the production still makes money.  Name a movie, Forrest Gump.  It was an old movie.  But when they released it on Blueray, Tom Hanks got a paycheck.  When it got on Netflix, Tom Hanks got a paycheck.  If Amazon Video bought the right, Tom Hanks would get a paycheck.  If the movie gets distributed in China, Tom Hanks will get a paycheck.  And he has stopped working on that movie since around 1994.  

[TBoneTones]

I saw this, and have doubts. Why? Because, Nexus have done very nicely, thank you very much, from mod authors over the years; they can employ an ever increasing number of permanent and part time staff, pay God knows what for an unnecessary website re-design, and develop another Mod manager with the employment of the author of Mod Organizer to boot.

 

I think, they could have dripped some of that back to authors, themselves, in a simpler manner than this convoluted mod options baloney...I read about 3 sentecnes and lost interest as it was written so badly.  They could, for example, simply drip authors based maybes on endorsements, and/or  a raffle system for new authors, etc etc.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MadMansGun]

On 5/23/2018 at 9:05 AM, KoolHndLuke said:

Not so sure this is going to foster any more "sharing" in the community there, but, whatever.?

this has already screwed over work on my UnPatch mod, i can't get permission for anything now.

[Pfiffy]

Well, I will have to take a look if anyone complains about the permissions he gave me for using assets....and the share he requests now. 

And what will happen to statements like ' You can use it, as long as you don't get payed for it'. Think of all the Bodyslide armors and the ECE presets...or tools like nifoptimizer...

[RitualClarity]

On 5/23/2018 at 9:00 PM, Alkpaz said:

Just saw that today. I don't know what to think about it honestly, but if Nexus has money to blow, why would it foster anything from people wanting to upgrade their accounts to being paid? I have a Premium account on Nexus, but I did it more for support than to "get mods faster".

Yea... that will do wonders to get people to pay for a premium account. Before, you could say it was to support the site bandwidth but now it it to give money to mod authors... If I want an author to get money I am smart enough to give it to them. DIRECTLY.

 

On the flip side. Might not be a popular view... those that just want to go and get mods. Have a quality site with popular mods etc and not mess with paying this mod author or that etc can support them and let them work that shit out. lol. I know of some people in RL that think like that.

 

The bad thing is this was already discussed with the Steam, Bethesda pay mod issue. Paying for authors to upload and work on mods causes the very thing the OP experienced. Resistance for sharing some resources because they want to get a fair share. I can't blame anyone that does work on a mod (which is a shit ton of work even for some of the most simple mods ) to get a share of profit if it is offered. If their assets are somewhere in another persons mods and that makes it possible for them to make profit I understand their desire to get some share of that as well. I don't condemn them for this.  I condemn the setup for pitting authors against authors like this.

 

Perhaps Nexus could give points to the users that download their mods. Based on # of downloads they do on the site. Premium users get a few more points since they support the site. Then, those users could give the points to an author of their choice for a mod of choice (votes) and that author would get some credits and such as a result. Community driven. That doesn't solve the author against author issue though.

[KoolHndLuke]

Yeah, I don't know how many times I read in a mod's description the author saying that they don't do this for money or praise. I didn't believe them all. They demanding compensation for sharing assets is proof of their lies. "Forever Free"!! Yeah, right. My moderator friend over there was right when they told me that the main thing keeping mods free was the EULA by Beth/Zen. The minute that Beth/Zen amended that EULA to allow the selling of mods, you would see over half of those idiots pulling down their mods and locking them behind a paywall. Probably most of the ones that "champion" free mods would be among the first.

[Pfiffy]

8 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

Yea... that will do wonders to get people to pay for a premium account. Before, you could say it was to support the site bandwidth but now it it to give money to mod authors... If I want an author to get money I am smart enough to give it to them. DIRECTLY.

 

On the flip side. Might not be a popular view... those that just want to go and get mods. Have a quality site with popular mods etc and not mess with paying this mod author or that etc can support them and let them work that shit out. lol. I know of some people in RL that think like that.

 

The bad thing is this was already discussed with the Steam, Bethesda pay mod issue. Paying for authors to upload and work on mods causes the very thing the OP experienced. Resistance for sharing some resources because they want to get a fair share. I can't blame anyone that does work on a mod (which is a shit ton of work even for some of the most simple mods ) to get a share of profit if it is offered. If their assets are somewhere in another persons mods and that makes it possible for them to make profit I understand their desire to get some share of that as well. I don't condemn them for this.  I condemn the setup for pitting authors against authors like this.

 

Perhaps Nexus could give points to the users that download their mods. Based on # of downloads they do on the site. Premium users get a few more points since they support the site. Then, those users could give the points to an author of their choice for a mod of choice (votes) and that author would get some credits and such as a result. Community driven. That doesn't solve the author against author issue though.

In this case they would have to force the simple user to spend the coins. People are lazy... They would keep them, just to save some time. And then forget them in their pockets. Or they will spend them where they are and we are back at the sharing. I take an example from here: I have converted a lot of anim mods to SE. Uploaded them here with the permission of the author, so they don't have to bother with the SE conversion themselves. If I get one point for a download, how should it be shared?
What belongs to the author that created the anim and what belongs to me for making it accessible for SE users? Without me there wouldn't be the download and No Point at all. And how much is the share of the authors, that made the tools I needed to do the conversion? Or the share of the authors that created SL animloader? Without it there would be no anim packs.... what will Fore get for making it possible to add anims at all?       

[Fifoo]

13 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

this has already screwed over work on my UnPatch mod, i can't get permission for anything now.

So much effort made to finally end up in such a dead end? I find it really revolting when it goes against common sense.

 

5 hours ago, RitualClarity said:

I condemn the setup for pitting authors against authors like this.

And I share your point of view.

 

With this Donation Points system in place, I am afraid that most mod creators will migrate to new game versions and abandon old ones, for the sole purpose of being able to make the most of them.

 

And most of the time users tend to look only at the biggest and most popular mods, unfortunately making some good mods being missed. But this observation has already been made in the past. I'm not saying that popular mods are devoid of qualities, far from it, and I salute the work done by their creators, the risk being now that the gap is widening even more with this outbid of popularity, despite what makes the strength and effectiveness of a mod above all: its quality.

 

4 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Yeah, I don't know how many times I read in a mod's description the author saying that they don't do this for money or praise. I didn't believe them all. They demanding compensation for sharing assets is proof of their lies. "Forever Free"!! Yeah, right. My moderator friend over there was right when they told me that the main thing keeping mods free was the EULA by Beth/Zen. The minute that Beth/Zen amended that EULA to allow the selling of mods, you would see over half of those idiots pulling down their mods and locking them behind a paywall. Probably most of the ones that "champion" free mods would be among the first.

And Dark0ne did not mention any agreement made with Bethesda on this newly introduced system:

 

Spoiler

Have you discussed this system with Bethesda? If Bethesda aren't happy with the system and ask you to remove it, will you remove it?

Bethesda have made it very clear over the years that if you force them to give you an answer on a particular issue it's much easier for them to say "no" than it is to say yes. However, if you simply get on with it and don't ask them, they don't need to say "no" or "yes" and they'll let you know if they have a very serious issue with it.

As far as my solicitor and I are concerned, there really shouldn't be a legal issue here. I'd talk it through with them for sure, but if they're adamant that it has to be removed then I will remove it for any Bethesda games we host as I'm sure you can appreciate getting into a legal fight over this wouldn't be prudent.

I will not remove it for any other game we support that Bethesda has no jurisdiction over.

It would obviously result in a system that benefits far fewer mod authors on the site, but I'm not going to let Bethesda dictate functionality on the site that is about more than just their games now, and has been for many years.

 

------------

Sources: Mod Author Donation System

 

4 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

What belongs to the author that created the anim and what belongs to me for making it accessible for SE users? Without me there wouldn't be the download and No Point at all. And how much is the share of the authors, that made the tools I needed to do the conversion? Or the share of the authors that created SL animloader? Without it there would be no anim packs.... what will Fore get for making it possible to add anims at all?

This system is not going to make things easy, it leaves out the authors who have done so much since their arrival in the mod community and do not reward them with their true value. For my part, force is to believe that Nexus is trying to attract new mods authors = more mods = more downloads/views = more advertising profits.

[RitualClarity]

Quote

With this Donation Points system in place, I am afraid that most mod creators will migrate to new game versions and abandon old ones, for the sole purpose of being able to make the most of them.

Yes, that is a very real possibility.

Quote

In this case they would have to force the simple user to spend the coins. People are lazy... They would keep them, just to save some time. And then forget them in their pockets.

If I was given points to allocate to the mods I download I'd give the credit to the mods authors. I click on the nice little thumb button all the time for authors even if the mod failed my expectation but was still solid and functional or just because I know the author really put their heart into it. sure not everybody would do this but it would be easy if the points or such was allowed to be allocated by the user instead of unique downloads.

 

However, I guess, I could create a multiple accounts and such and then download 5 or 10 times from a mod to give them more credits if I fell they deserve the points or whatever Nexus is doing...

 

anyway ... off the subject for a moment... Until recently I didn't even know you existed (Haven't used any of your mods)  @Pfiffy Anyway... love the work you have done. Kudos to you. If I had internet buttons or points or whatever, I'd give you many... Keep up the good work . Maybe you might be able to cash in and get some internet cookies or cake or something in the future.   All authors that do work on a mod that people enjoy deserve praises and points and whatever else can be given for their time and efforts.

[Pfiffy]

16 hours ago, RitualClarity said:

Yes, that is a very real possibility.

If I was given points to allocate to the mods I download I'd give the credit to the mods authors. I click on the nice little thumb button all the time for authors even if the mod failed my expectation but was still solid and functional or just because I know the author really put their heart into it. sure not everybody would do this but it would be easy if the points or such was allowed to be allocated by the user instead of unique downloads.

 

However, I guess, I could create a multiple accounts and such and then download 5 or 10 times from a mod to give them more credits if I fell they deserve the points or whatever Nexus is doing...

 

anyway ... off the subject for a moment... Until recently I didn't even know you existed (Haven't used any of your mods)  @Pfiffy Anyway... love the work you have done. Kudos to you. If I had internet buttons or points or whatever, I'd give you many... Keep up the good work . Maybe you might be able to cash in and get some internet cookies or cake or something in the future.   All authors that do work on a mod that people enjoy deserve praises and points and whatever else can be given for their time and efforts.

Most of the things i have done have not been much of a work. It takes just few minutes to convert an anim pack, getting the permission to post them takes much longer. Only CF, ZAZ and DD have been real work and the important parts have not been done by me. I have just been the first who put the things together and gave them to the public. If I haven't done it, it would have been done by someone else and this 'someone else' might have done it much better than me.  

[Guest]

On 6/4/2018 at 5:30 PM, Pfiffy said:

Most of the things i have done have not been much of a work. It takes just few minutes to convert an anim pack, getting the permission to post them takes much longer. Only CF, ZAZ and DD have been real work and the important parts have not been done by me. I have just been the first who put the things together and gave them to the public. If I haven't done it, it would have been done by someone else and this 'someone else' might have done it much better than me.  

But you did it.

And you have my appreciation.

[Pfiffy]

25 minutes ago, CPU said:

But you did it.

And you have my appreciation.

I feel honored. But I also feel like I have missd the target. I started with that, because I wanted to encourage others, but by now it seems that I have made them just lazy...

 

[dagobaking]

On 6/3/2018 at 6:44 AM, KoolHndLuke said:

Yeah, I don't know how many times I read in a mod's description the author saying that they don't do this for money or praise. I didn't believe them all. They demanding compensation for sharing assets is proof of their lies. "Forever Free"!! Yeah, right. My moderator friend over there was right when they told me that the main thing keeping mods free was the EULA by Beth/Zen. The minute that Beth/Zen amended that EULA to allow the selling of mods, you would see over half of those idiots pulling down their mods and locking them behind a paywall. Probably most of the ones that "champion" free mods would be among the first.

Even if this accusation is true, people wanting to be compensated for their work makes them idiots?

[KoolHndLuke]

5 hours ago, dagobaking said:

Even if this accusation is true, people wanting to be compensated for their work makes them idiots?

It's just opening a door that will do more harm than good imho.

[guk]

Well apparently Nexus is making more money than Dark0ne can spend/invest, so they decide to share some of the surplus among the modders. Not directly a bad idea.

Problems:

 

1) Permissions and used assets - exactly as KoolHndLuke said above, since you can't negotiate a sensible share this can only lead to authors locking down permissions.

 

2) I have three mods on Nexus. Two of them have ten thousands of downloads and a very good DL/endorsement ratio (albeit a drastically different DL/month ratio).

However all my monthly downloads are so comparably low that it probably would take me hundreds years before i could buy a pack of condoms from the shared rewards. Because there are a few major of mods with millions of downloads, and likewise hundred thousands of other small mods.

 

Now the thing is, if people like me don't participate - simply because getting a share of >0.002 cent per month is irrelevant - then a disproportionally high sum will go to the owners of the large mods. Fictional example of what i mean:

 

- 50% of all downloads are caused by the top 10 major modders

- 50% of remaining downloads are caused by 200.000 small/medium modders

 

If only half of the small modders waive their rights to claim their 0.002 cent, then effectively the top 10 modders get 75% of the total money (instead of the 50% they would deserve). This would go even further up in favor of the major modders, since some of them (like SkyUI) still are the most important mods but their creators might no longer be active.

 

 

-----

 

*PS - 10.000$ / 2 = 5000$

5000$ / 200.000 users = 0.025$ (not cent, whatever we are talking about irrelevant sums)

[reaper66689]

huh who trust them on nexus since they had there db stolen i wouldnt

 

but just in case to see if your data breached on any website just put your email in i know the site owner and its safe

 

https://haveibeenpwned.com/

[guk]

On 6/3/2018 at 3:44 PM, KoolHndLuke said:

Yeah, I don't know how many times I read in a mod's description the author saying that they don't do this for money or praise. I didn't believe them all. They demanding compensation for sharing assets is proof of their lies. "Forever Free"!! Yeah, right. My moderator friend over there was right when they told me that the main thing keeping mods free was the EULA by Beth/Zen. The minute that Beth/Zen amended that EULA to allow the selling of mods, you would see over half of those idiots pulling down their mods and locking them behind a paywall. Probably most of the ones that "champion" free mods would be among the first.

The "Forever Free" initiative was a complete joke - they explicitly did NOT take a stance on the "paid modding fiasco", but instead only wanted to show that their mods would not be for sale in the future. That's not even passive protest, but acceptance.

 

Well the reason why paid modding was cancelled after a few days, was only because we were storming the Steam forums and wrote negative reviews. In the end it was Lord GabeN who stopped the sale of mods in the Steam Workshop, because unlike Bethesda he did seem to actually care about the reputation (if not user opinion) at least.

[Pfiffy]

Free modding seems to get out of date.... How would be the share of the SKSE team? If you think about it, things are gettin very interesting.

[reaper66689]

 

5 minutes ago, guk said:

The "Forever Free" initiative was a complete joke - they explicitly did NOT take a stance on the "paid modding fiasco", but instead only wanted to show that their mods would not be for sale in the future. That's not even passive protest, but acceptance.

 

Well the reason why paid modding was cancelled after a few days, was only because we were storming the Steam forums and wrote negative reviews. In the end it was Lord GabeN who stopped the sale of mods in the Steam Workshop, because unlike Bethesda he did seem to actually care about the reputation (if not user opinion) at least.

ea and pay simsites done it for years  breaking eula now tsr gone free forever be shocked if nexus dont block download if you use a adblocker

[goldust]

well its cool with me...anyway the guys want to roll...at this point i dont care..i have 3..4 tb hard drives..full of mods..from nexus and other places..so let them lock them behind pay walls..i will just go right on playing the game.how i want ..by the way CPU nice new pic 

[KoolHndLuke]

2 hours ago, goldust said:

so let them lock them behind pay walls..i will just go right on playing the game.how i want

 Modding- as far as I'm concerned- is about a community that shares.....and cares much less about "what's in it for me?". I'm not judging you personally, though, it is a good idea to have copies of mods just in case something "happens" to them.