More Nasty Critters Special/Anniversary Edition

[OthelFermayan]

On 6/4/2024 at 6:25 PM, fluffyvault said:

 

I did try (fuck is it fast, 5-6 seconds for 55k animations???) But its not 100% backwards compatible with things that require Nemesis yet.

 

Things like JS Immersive Interactions don't play their animations if I use Pandora, and I had to find a patch for TK Dodge otherwise Id just roll in place lol

 

 

If it helps the headache, I only had the super jerky camera with the sprinting animation for all fours (not the vanilla one, but the alternate sprint animation that looks like its from "Werewolf Feral Beast Run".

 

Now I feel bad for finding and dumping a seemingly painful thing to fix. If I knew anything about animations or their annotations Id offer a helping hand

 

Since you said that you are using both fnis and nemesis, I presume you know how to mix and match their outputs. I've been testing combining all Nemesis, Fnis and pandora, and in my case it works very well. Generally, you can use Nemesis for character animations since pandora is still quite janky there, then take your pick of Pandora or fnis for creature animations. That should solve your problem with JS interactions at least.

 

Example use case: I mostly use pandora because of creature animations, as well as precision creatures. Pandora works fantastically for draugr (including skeletons etc.) but it breaks certain vanilla falmer animations. Falmer are not affected by precision creatures, so I can safely use the Fnis output for falmers.

 

 

[Serenity_XXI]

4 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

maybe, hdt stuff can do some odd shit (when it does not crash from whatever's wrong)

Yeah I've read in various threads that HDT could be the culprit, but I've tried disabling and even completely uninstalling it, and yet the problem still persisted.

 

Does the fact that it only happens indoors, or that disabling CF for a specific creature stops it from happening not offer any clues?

 

What is it about dongs being equipped for creatures that could be triggering this?

 

I've also tried using the "inv" and "removeitem" commands to unequip/remove any items the NPC creature might have. I narrowed it down to one equipped item, which appears to be the "nude suit", as removing it immediately made the creature re-appear fully dressed. A few seconds later it gets automatically reequipped and the creature immediately disappears again.

Edited June 8, 2024 by Serenity_XXI

[Grey Cloud]

3 hours ago, OthelFermayan said:

all Nemesis, Fnis and pandora,

Why? What do you think Pandora is doing if you have FNIS and Nemesis? Pandora is a replacement for the other two.

Edited June 8, 2024 by Grey Cloud

[Tlam99]

2 hours ago, Serenity_XXI said:

o be the "nude suit"

points to wrong skeleton for this armor, or wrong/bad armor nif itself. 

Equipping armor on wrong skeleton makes the NPC/creature disappear.

 

In your case, outside invisible could be a lag caused by too high tex resolution, grass density, too many differnt high res skin.

This might cause a script lag similar HDT, what disturbs equip event for skins.

Edited June 8, 2024 by Tlam99

[Serenity_XXI]

3 hours ago, Tlam99 said:

points to wrong skeleton for this armor, or wrong/bad armor nif itself. 

Equipping armor on wrong skeleton makes the NPC/creature disappear.

 

In your case, outside invisible could be a lag caused by too high tex resolution, grass density, too many differnt high res skin.

This might cause a script lag similar HDT, what disturbs equip event for skins.

Hey, thanks for taking a crack at my problem and your advice.

But I think you misunderstood: This ONLY happens inside.

If I start the same animation with the same NPC outside it works - the creature NPC doesn't disappear.

 

Also important, this is only an issue with *some* creature NPCs (like Falmer, Gargoyle). Others like dog, or Seeker, no issues.

[Tlam99]

Hm, what's the difference. First what comes into mind is the light.

ENB or lightning mod for inside..

It might be related to a problem some people have. Diappearing npc inside a cave.

HDT, ENB and some wigs in combination seem to caused this.

 

Is it possible to target, at least parts, with extended console to chrck the armor. 

Or do it when creatures are visible. Find the ID of the armor.

 

Use a torch or spell when animating creatures disappear.. Another idea, the actor size.

Try a console command move to player. Get the ID before the scene starts.

 

Falmer, Gargoyles are only found inside. Prid and move to player when you are outside.

 

All this is to narrow down. You must identify the problem. Switching of mods is not a reliable way, as this could mess up things

and obscure the real problem.

[Serenity_XXI]

52 minutes ago, Tlam99 said:

Hm, what's the difference. First what comes into mind is the light.

ENB or lightning mod for inside..

It might be related to a problem some people have. Diappearing npc inside a cave.

HDT, ENB and some wigs in combination seem to caused this.

 

Is it possible to target, at least parts, with extended console to chrck the armor. 

Or do it when creatures are visible. Find the ID of the armor.

 

Use a torch or spell when animating creatures disappear.. Another idea, the actor size.

Try a console command move to player. Get the ID before the scene starts.

 

Falmer, Gargoyles are only found inside. Prid and move to player when you are outside.

 

All this is to narrow down. You must identify the problem. Switching of mods is not a reliable way, as this could mess up things

and obscure the real problem.

I previously tried "Prid" and "Moveto" commands on a disappearing NPC, and it didn't move me anywhere different. So it shows the NPCs are not teleported somewhere, they are present in the same location, just invisible.

I also confirmed this by using the "Reveal Auras" spell (from "Better Vampires" mod), which highlights all NPCs. The invisible NPC was shown highlighted exactly where it should be, it was just invisible for the duration of the animation scene.

[MadMansGun]

42 minutes ago, Serenity_XXI said:

I previously tried "Prid" and "Moveto" commands on a disappearing NPC, and it didn't move me anywhere different. So it shows the NPCs are not teleported somewhere, they are present in the same location, just invisible.

I also confirmed this by using the "Reveal Auras" spell (from "Better Vampires" mod), which highlights all NPCs. The invisible NPC was shown highlighted exactly where it should be, it was just invisible for the duration of the animation scene.

you sure that you installed the SE/AE version of the mod/s?

Edited June 8, 2024 by MadMansGun

[Serenity_XXI]

44 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

you sure that you installed the SE/AE version of the mod/s?

Yes, I installed from here:

 

[OthelFermayan]

19 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

Why? What do you think Pandora is doing if you have FNIS and Nemesis? Pandora is a replacement for the other two.

 

There are some cases where Fnis and Nemesis wont work completely. For example, only Fnis can do creature animations, but only Nemesis can do precision creatures. That's why I also use pandora since it can do both.

 

Pandora is still quite buggy. For me, character animation don't work at all with the pandora output; as in all character t-pose. Hence why I use nemesis. And as I said, certain vanilla creature animations don't work for me with pandora, like falmers using staves, hence fnis. So by using all three behaviour engines, I get full functionallity out of my mods. 

Edited June 9, 2024 by OthelFermayan

[LiterallyATurtle]

23 hours ago, OthelFermayan said:

 

Since you said that you are using both fnis and nemesis, I presume you know how to mix and match their outputs. I've been testing combining all Nemesis, Fnis and pandora, and in my case it works very well. Generally, you can use Nemesis for character animations since pandora is still quite janky there, then take your pick of Pandora or fnis for creature animations. That should solve your problem with JS interactions at least.

 

Example use case: I mostly use pandora because of creature animations, as well as precision creatures. Pandora works fantastically for draugr (including skeletons etc.) but it breaks certain vanilla falmer animations. Falmer are not affected by precision creatures, so I can safely use the Fnis output for falmers.

 

 

 

Maybe it's just a Precision Creatures thing then? I've just been running FNIS for everything, then Nemesis after for anything that explicitly requires it. Trying to run Pandora then Nemesis likes to brick Nemesis when it comes to Engine updates. I have a feeling it doesn't help I'm using Vortex so just saying 'put your output here' for either of the 3 mods is kinda jank, since I'd have to deploy after to apply said output.

 

At this point, I'm just keeping what I've got working now until Pandora can be used as a drop in replacement without FNIS or Nemesis at all. Avoid the jank that way hopefully.

[Grey Cloud]

5 hours ago, OthelFermayan said:

 

There are some cases where Fnis and Nemesis wont work completely. For example, only Fnis can do creature animations, but only Nemesis can do precision creatures. That's why I also use pandora since it can do both.

 

Pandora is still quite buggy. For me, character animation don't work at all with the pandora output; as in all character t-pose. Hence why I use nemesis. And as I said, certain vanilla creature animations don't work for me with pandora, like falmers using staves, hence fnis. So by using all three behaviour engines, I get full functionallity out of my mods. 

You missed my point entirely. If FNIS and Nemesis cover all your animation needs then Pandora is not needed.

I use Pandora without either FNIS or Nemesis and have not had any issues with it. If any of the three have issues it is Nemesis which requires a certain amount of hoop-jumping to work with FNIS and is essentially abandonware.

Pandora is an alternative to FNIS and Nemesis, i.e. a replacement, it is not an add-on or extension to them.

[OthelFermayan]

4 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

You missed my point entirely. If FNIS and Nemesis cover all your animation needs then Pandora is not needed.

I use Pandora without either FNIS or Nemesis and have not had any issues with it. If any of the three have issues it is Nemesis which requires a certain amount of hoop-jumping to work with FNIS and is essentially abandonware.

Pandora is an alternative to FNIS and Nemesis, i.e. a replacement, it is not an add-on or extension to them.

 

I think you missed my point actually. Fnis can't do precision creatures, Nemesis can't do creature animations. Since you can't have outputs from both of them at once you need to chose which one you want. Pandora can do both at once. But, as I said, some falmer animations in particular breaks with pandora, which I solve by using the Fnis output for falmer instead.

 

I have at least one character animation mod which is explicitly incompatible with pandora. If even only one mod is incompatible, it breaks the entire output for that actor type (so characters in this case), causing permanent t-pose. This happens without that particular mod aswell, so there must be an unknown amount of mods out there which just don't work with pandora, yet. That's why Nemesis is still necessary.

 

9 hours ago, fluffyvault said:

 

Maybe it's just a Precision Creatures thing then? I've just been running FNIS for everything, then Nemesis after for anything that explicitly requires it. Trying to run Pandora then Nemesis likes to brick Nemesis when it comes to Engine updates. I have a feeling it doesn't help I'm using Vortex so just saying 'put your output here' for either of the 3 mods is kinda jank, since I'd have to deploy after to apply said output.

 

At this point, I'm just keeping what I've got working now until Pandora can be used as a drop in replacement without FNIS or Nemesis at all. Avoid the jank that way hopefully.

 

Yeah, pandora does some things to the actual nemesis folder which makes Nemesis not work properly. I fixed it by reinstalling any mods that sepcifically require Nemesis. I also use vortex, but you don't need to deploy. After you have ran Fnis or nemesis, just copy the folders in Data/meshes/actors into a backup folder, run pandora, then copy the folders you want from the backup back into that directory. I make a backup of both the Fnis and the nemesis output, and use the nemesis ouput for characters, and the fnis output for creatures that are buggy with pandora.

 

 

Edited June 9, 2024 by OthelFermayan

[Grey Cloud]

10 minutes ago, OthelFermayan said:

I think you missed my point actually. Fnis can't do precision creatures, Nemesis can't do creature animations. Since you can't have outputs from both of them at once you need to chose which one you want. Pandora can do both at once. But, as I said, some falmer animations in particular breaks with pandora, which I solve by using the Fnis output for falmer instead.

Maybe I am missing a point but you haven't made one yet. You keep repeating the same things without explaining why you need the third animation behaviour mod. Either you use just FNIS and Nemesis and leave Pandora out of it (which you should do) or you use Pandora and leave FNIS and Nemesis out of it (as I do).

If FNIS does A and Nemesis does B then why do you need Pandora?

What is 'precision creatures'? I cannot recall ever coming across that term or anyone talking about creature animations which FNIS cannot handle in eight years on this site.

No FNIS installed.

[OthelFermayan]

18 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Maybe I am missing a point but you haven't made one yet. You keep repeating the same things without explaining why you need the third animation behaviour mod. Either you use just FNIS and Nemesis and leave Pandora out of it (which you should do) or you use Pandora and leave FNIS and Nemesis out of it (as I do).

If FNIS does A and Nemesis does B then why do you need Pandora?

What is 'precision creatures'? I cannot recall ever coming across that term or anyone talking about creature animations which FNIS cannot handle in eight years on this site.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

No FNIS installed.


 

 

 

 

Alright. There's a mod called Precision on the nexus that adds a physics-based system for melee combat. The main feature is that a weapon swing will hit if the weapon model makes physical contact with whatever you are aiming for. There is an addon for precision called precision creatures, which add this functionallity to some creatures. Notably draugr, which actually use weapons, but also werewolfs and vampire lords for example. Both precision and precision creatures require Nemesis. They don't work with Fnis. For base precision, which only affect the "character" actor type that's fine since Nemesis can do everything Fnis can do for characters, so you can have all your sex animations and combat overhauls and whatever. But for precision creatures, you have the problem that Nemesis can't do everything Fnis can for creatures, and vice versa. As I said, Fnis can't do precision creatures, and Nemesis can't do creature animations from this site. So since I can only use the output of one engine, for creatures I can either get Nemesis functionallity (precision creatures) OR fnis functionallity (Creature animations). Pandora nominally has the functionallity of both Nemesis and Fnis when it comes to creatures and characters. But in practice, some character mods are not compatible with pandora (which was my problem) or makes some character animation mods behave wierdly (being the other user's problem with JS immersive interactions). I also had the problem with falmers using staves as I mentioned. Using the Fnis output for falmers fixed the issue.

 

The point is that Pandora, being in an alpha stage, does not completely replace those other engines at this point. If it works for your setup that's cool, but for me it doesn't. I use pandora since it results in full functionallity when it comes to creatures. Nemesis and Fnis are used to plug the gaps where pandora doesn't work properly, which in my case is character animations and falmer animations.

 

 

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, OthelFermayan said:

I use pandora since it results in full functionallity when it comes to creatures. Nemesis and Fnis are used to plug the gaps where pandora doesn't work properly,

So FNIS and Nemesis meet your needs therefore you have no need of Pandora - Pandora does not add anything. I moved to SE a couple of months ago and decided to give Pandora a go rather than FNIS (never used Nemesis) and so far after several version updates I haven't had any problems. Though I should add that I've not really played a lot other than for testing this and that.

[OthelFermayan]

10 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

So FNIS and Nemesis meet your needs therefore you have no need of Pandora - Pandora does not add anything. I moved to SE a couple of months ago and decided to give Pandora a go rather than FNIS (never used Nemesis) and so far after several version updates I haven't had any problems. Though I should add that I've not really played a lot other than for testing this and that.

 

No they don't meet my needs. Fnis can do creature animations, Nemesis can do precision creatures. But I can't have both at once since they override eachother. One can do A, one can do B, but I can't have A+B. Pandora can do both at once, so it is needed. But pandora breaks animations for characters and some creatures, so I need Nemesis and Fnis for those particular cases. 

I realy don't see why this is so difficult to understand.

 

[UsernameTaken666]

32 minutes ago, OthelFermayan said:

 

No they don't meet my needs. Fnis can do creature animations, Nemesis can do precision creatures. But I can't have both at once since they override eachother. One can do A, one can do B, but I can't have A+B. Pandora can do both at once, so it is needed. But pandora breaks animations for characters and some creatures, so I need Nemesis and Fnis for those particular cases. 

I realy don't see why this is so difficult to understand.

 

Ya know, you can run both FNIS and Nemesis but ya gotta follow particular instructions. 

[MadMansGun]

hole argument invalid, sexlab and fnis are made for each other, if you want sex then use fnis.

if you want to fuck up your game with gimmicky combat mods then use nemeshit.

 

you're all just going to end up as stealth archers anyways so why even bother with that crap.

Edited June 10, 2024 by MadMansGun

[OthelFermayan]

50 minutes ago, UsernameTaken666 said:

Ya know, you can run both FNIS and Nemesis but ya gotta follow particular instructions. 

 

Yea, but the level of control you have is you can chose which ouput you want for each actor type. If there are incombatibilities within one creature actor type then there is no way to solve it by using only fnis and nemesis. This happens when you have fnis dependent creature mods, but also a creature mod that require Nemesis, that both affect the same creature actor type. To my knowledge, this is only precision creatures. So it is perhaps an edge case, but the only way to solve it is by using Pandora.

 

39 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

hole argument invalid, sexlab and fnis are made for each other, if you want sex then use fnis.

if you want to fuck up your game with gimmicky combat mods then use nemeshit.

 

you're all just going to end up as stealth archers anyways so why even bother with that crap.

 

Idk, I want my cake and to eat it too, but fair enough. 

Edited June 10, 2024 by OthelFermayan

[UsernameTaken666]

3 minutes ago, OthelFermayan said:

 

Yea, but the level of control you have is you can chose which ouput you want for each actor type. If there are incombatibilities within one creature actor type then there is no way to solve it by using only fnis and nemesis. This happens when you have fnis dependent creature mods, but also a creature mod that require Nemesis, that both affect the same creature actor type. To my knowledge, this is only precision creatures. So it is perhaps an edge case, but the only way to solve it is by using Pandora.

 

 

Idk, I want my cake and to eat it too, but fair enough. 

Ok, then. Good luck with that. The issue / question is not with this mod then.

[OthelFermayan]

11 minutes ago, UsernameTaken666 said:

Ok, then. Good luck with that. The issue / question is not with this mod then.

I had neither a question nor an issue. I just answered to someone else who did and who brought up pandora. Literaly one page back.

[Oketo]

is their a way i get just get schlong without needing sex animations. not using FNIS for my playthough.

Overall im just trying to get the schlong add-on for Gaints, Orgers, Mintaros. 

[MadMansGun]

9 hours ago, Oketo said:

is their a way i get just get schlong without needing sex animations. not using FNIS for my playthough.

Overall im just trying to get the schlong add-on for Gaints, Orgers, Mintaros. 

https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/15040-less-nasty-critters/

note: you will need to use Cathedral Assets Optimizer on it to make it se/ae compatable.

[deathlyhill]

im having this issues idk whats going on humans are fine tho