Sexlab Adventures

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, Corsayr said:

I feel like we had this conversation before... 

Yes, and TDF aroused rape is still in no way a satisfactory mod.

 

SLA(R)'s arousal model is not something you want determining when rape attempts occur, you'd be better off simply using a random chance, as at least you'd know what it was.

 

With SLAX, it would work a bit better, as doing stuff that triggers particular individuals' fetishes would have much more predictable outcomes.

 

The brawling would still be perfectly tedious though.

 

In any case, why should a character with 100 in 1H have to brawl to protect herself?

 

My experience with TDF aroused rape was that I'd prefer SL Adventures rapes with no chance to resist, because at least they could be configured to only occur in moderately sensible ways.

 

And another problem with TDFAR is that it cripples any solicitation mod you have - as soon as you  have NPCs horny enough to pay, they all start raping you. If you set the arousal threshold higher, rape will never happen. It's also not very useful with Sex Slaves.

 

 

I've never been entirely happy with the idea that anyone can become a rapist, for almost no reason. Adding the reason that they rolled randomly to get some arousal when SLA(R) set them up doesn't improve matters greatly. It increases the impression that the NPCs are not characters but simply bots, with no lives, no history, no personal goals and no personal preferences.

 

The rise of rape mods as "a thing" seems to me to be a reaction to solving the simple problems of "getting more sex in Skyrim" and creating extra peril for the PC. The neat way rape delivers those two things together has resulted in a strong interest in rape mods to "solve a problem" in games, particularly weak-girl style games, or slavery-peril games.

 

However, looking back at the rape mods we got: (some early examples spring to mind) Deviously Enslaved (before it was continued), Horrible Harrasment (original), Defeat, and then DCL ... and I think DCL came fairly late to this party ... is that apart from Defeat they were simplistic, and they undermined story and character, replacing scripted NPC interactions with random rapes.

 

Some mods have added more logic to random rapes, trying to make a story out of it. ME was probably the most sophisticated in this, though it started from a different end of the string. SL Approach is probably the most effective right now in terms of bringing some kind of character interaction - assuming you don't use ME. Alas, SL Approach is written in google-translate - a language I can barely read.

 

I no longer use SL Adventures for rapes at all, having given that task to SL Approach. My (usually rare) random rapes come from SLD, and are driven by devices. I'd prefer DEC, but there are some other blockers there, so I can't use it at the moment. SLD rape is very much pure random - albeit you have dynamic modification of the chance based on dozens of inputs - but who rapes is only restricted by gender and role (guards never rape in SLD, women never rape in SLD). I'm not sure whether it's worth improving that feature, or writing something more like SL Advance - but in English, and with a bit more Skryim-sexist-setting sensibility. The nice guys in SL Advance are a little too nice for a game with SLS and Sexist Guards in it, for example. I want to do both things, but right now I find myself procrastinating writing this instead of working on SLAX  which I need to release before I do anything else.

 

I also use the updated HH with extra keywords, and with my SLAX prototype I can set the keywords in-game rather than having to do it in the ESP, so that's quite convenient. It only rapes on "bump" events, and only if wearing sexy clothes in my setup, which is ... acceptable ... though still a bit silly.

 

So, for me, SL Adventures is left handling some crime (SLS handles weapons/armor and such now), cum-coverage effects, and some sleep-creep.

[Corsayr]

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

you'd be better off simply using a random chance, as at least you'd know what it was.

Wrong!

 

The arousal animations tell you when a situation is getting dangerous. You see some rando in the corner of the bar rubbing his junk and it it's like, "fuck I need to get out of here before something bad happens." ?

 

When I ran TDF rape I ran it with SLA proximity so I had both going and that figured into all your conditions. 

 

TDF though, is kind of a processing pig, and there were other process pig mods I wanted so something had to go. Now it's gone in my load order for the moment.  

[Corsayr]

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

And another problem with TDFAR is that it cripples any solicitation mod you have - as soon as you  have NPCs horny enough to pay, they all start raping you.

Not a bug it's a feature. ?

 

To me that is actually immersive as fuck, prostitution is a total balancing act.  

 

Spoiler

 

[Corsayr]

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I've never been entirely happy with the idea that anyone can become a rapist, for almost no reason. Adding the reason that they rolled randomly to get some arousal when SLA(R) set them up doesn't improve matters greatly. It increases the impression that the NPCs are not characters but simply bots, with no lives, no history, no personal goals and no personal preferences.

It's been a while didn't TDF have a morality setting?

 

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I no longer use SL Adventures for rapes at all, having given that task to SL Approach.

I use both.

 

 

[HexBolt8]

5 hours ago, Corsayr said:

To me that is actually immersive as fuck, prostitution is a total balancing act.  

Yes, that's how I see it.  I'm not using TDF, but the concept works for any arousal-based rape mod.  I have the arousal threshold set a little above the minimum for prostitution though, so when I enter an inn it's a race to "pacify" the place before the trouble begins.  Sometimes I'm not quick enough, or I wrongly ignore a guy in the corner who was more aroused than I'd thought.

[Lupine00]

16 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

21 hours ago, Corsayr said:

To me that is actually immersive as fuck, prostitution is a total balancing act.  

Yes, that's how I see it.  I'm not using TDF, but the concept works for any arousal-based rape mod.  I have the arousal threshold set a little above the minimum for prostitution though, so when I enter an inn it's a race to "pacify" the place before the trouble begins.  Sometimes I'm not quick enough, or I wrongly ignore a guy in the corner who was more aroused than I'd thought.

It's the job of the pimp to stop that. Lost whore earnings = lost pimp earnings.

[Corsayr]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's the job of the pimp to stop that. Lost whore earnings = lost pimp earnings.

So really what TDF AR needs is a feature where a Male follower stops horney rapists (just like the female followers already do) but instead of "taking one for the team" like a female follower will, the Male follower either send em packing or negotiates a price. ?

[llokii70]

Male or female....nothing say the pimp technically could be a badass woman

[Corsayr]

11 hours ago, llokii70 said:

Male or female....nothing say the pimp technically could be a badass woman

True but it already has a feature for female followers getting raped instead of the PC so I am guessing that TDF wanted it that way. ?

 

But we are getting into hi-jack territory so I'll probably transpose this as a suggestion over on the TDF aroused rape thread. Sorry @Teutonic ?

[HexBolt8]

4 hours ago, Corsayr said:

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's the job of the pimp to stop that. Lost whore earnings = lost pimp earnings.

So really what TDF AR needs is a feature where a Male follower stops horney rapists (just like the female followers already do) but instead of "taking one for the team" like a female follower will, the Male follower either send em packing or negotiates a price.

I'd already essentially done that, but in a way that doesn't make it so easy for the player, I just left out extra details to keep my original response concise. 

 

But since the point was raised, I've slightly modified Radiant Prostitution to let the follower be a pimp, and added a few conditional lines to the rape dialog in DEC (my current arousal-based rape mod) to detect when the PC is in prostitution mode or in a tavern (SL Adventures is my conditions-based peril mod.)  If so, the follower intervenes to demand payment.  The would-be rapist might then walk away, or might agree to pay (via Radiant Prostitution).  But, since the pimp had to step in, the pimp takes the entire pay. 

 

So, as I'd described earlier, in my game setup it's very much in my interest to quickly pacify an inn before arousal gets too high, or the PC gets wear & tear for nothing.  I like the arousal "balancing act", as Corsayr put it.  And by using Radiant Prostitution rather than TDF, I'm able to leave a small arousal window between being people being willing to pay for sex and just taking what they want.  So mods with an arousal threshold for rape, such as SL Adventures and others, work pretty well for me.

[llokii70]

that to me is actually a pretty cool way to handle it I like it

[Lupine00]

18 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I like the arousal "balancing act", as Corsayr put it. 

Once again leans heavily on SLA(R), which I know from rewriting every single line of it, that it's ... not really up to that job, or ever intended to do it.

 

SLA(R) is such a minimal (and unstable) simulation, that trying to base gameplay off it is painful indeed.

 

DCL does much the same thing by leaning heavily on arousal, and the results are arbitrary and unstable.

 

But here's a genuine question...

 

What would you expect from arousal in gameplay terms to make it better?

I don't mean what simulation would you use. I mean what final outcomes do you believe would be most fun?

 

I currently have an approach that (usually) results in brief spikes of arousal, that can be dangerous times, but which do not persist almost indefinitely (as SLA(R) does once you have a high time rate or any meaningful source of exposure).

 

So the play experience is about being aware of those vulnerable times and handling them.

 

 

You won't end up with persistent high arousal unless you have a fetish for denial and are stuck in belt, or a fetish for rubber and are stuck in a rubber suit, etc.

Once you get out of those situations, you can lose arousal quickly again, and not just pile it back on almost immediately (unless you recreate the situation).

 

Right now I'm on total rewrite number three, as I found trying to hang on to certain non-essential parts of the old SLA(R) infrastructure were making things messy and less efficient/performant. I was originally trying to retain every function SLA(R) ever had defined - in some working form - but it was just too much legacy. I'm dumping that in favour of only retaining the stuff in the main framework - which is the only part third-party mods should ever have bindings to.

[HexBolt8]

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

But here's a genuine question...

 

What would you expect from arousal in gameplay terms to make it better?

I would love to discuss these things with you.  I'm a huge fan of your ideas for SLAX.  But I've already done too much to derail the SL Adventures discussion (thank you Teutonic for your patience).  Do you have a SLAX development blog? 

[llokii70]

that's kind of hard to answer because I think that answer is going to be somewhat different for everyone. A total submissive might say to be completely controlled. I know there are some things that annoy me definitely some which you already covered. While I like the arousal system there were a lot of things I had to go in and turn down on DCL because at the same time I would try to do something in Skyrim and couldn't because everytime I turned around 5 devious devices were being thrown by someone or even myself through DCL's self bondage system. I would get out of 4-5 devices and two minutes later PC would be like " I am so aroused that I am going to throw 5 more devices back on myself". I think in the end it comes down to balance which makes it fun. DCL which I like a lot so I don't want to sound like I am slamming it but if you go with it's defaults....youre not going to do anything in skyrim. I do think the d/s angles can be entertaining. The rape can again up to a point. Most things I have tried sexlab community are entertaining until it is either over used or implemented poorly. Angrim's Apprentice for example the story is great but at one point I had to let my followers go ahead of me and defeat one of the enemies because if the hit me at all the PC would become a spirit and really couldn't do anything at that point. Strangers, spouses, followers. Falls from grace. Maybe the dragonborn/dragonborness goes from being a hero to a forced slave and you have to fight your way out. Which I think there is mod or mods that do that.  Again its a very hard question to answer. I like some of the deal systems and quests in devious followers. Laura's bondage shop the story she presents in there along with the interactions is very well done. In the end I guess interesting well balanced gameplay along with some story or direction. Sorry I may have not been much help.

[Lupine00]

50 minutes ago, llokii70 said:

that's kind of hard to answer

As HexBolt8 suggests, probably best to take this to a new place.

 

[llokii70]

I am really dumb here for a minute and I hate to say this I answered the question wrong in a way because we were in the sexlab adventures topic that was how I answered when you asked "what are you looking for in arousal". Now that I am un-stupid, yes new word, let me take a look at the aroused MCM.

[DarksideTinkerbell]

I was going through the usual set up for a new play through, when it occurred to me, no Mod that I have found actually incorporates a sexist point of view? 

The inspiration was while setting up Crime Laws for individual Holds

You have Public Sex with Modifiers right (as you obviously know lol)

Is it at all possible to include a Sexist Modifier, that would Influence Overall Bounties, (maybe with a Toggle for each Law to allow Sexist Modifiers or not), so for Example the Old Guy Jarl in Dawnstar could be a Sexist prick, and deem that all Bounties against Women are 2 times as High as the listed (with the Toggle you could then remove that increase from Public Nudity, cause he thinks all women should be Naked? Yeah he is a sexist misogynistic Prick). In any case something like that, even adding maybe to a similar function for some Bounties, like Thane Immunity but for Gender?  (The Jarl in Falkreath insists that all men must be clothed while all women naked so men are immune to the Nudity Laws.

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, DarksideTinkerbell said:

Is it at all possible to include a Sexist Modifier, that would Influence Overall Bounties,

Another way would have been to replace the tick boxes for the per-hold crimes with sliders, so you set bounty 0 for no crime, or a hold-distinct bounty value... But that's probably not going to happen in SL Adventures at this point.

 

I still struggle with some things relating to collars:

• I can choose whether wearing or not wearing a collar is a crime.
• I can choose whether reports are invalid when collared.
• However, I can't choose that reports are only valid when collared, and, 
• I can set my PC to be marked enslaved, but I don't know what that actually does. What does it do? The tooltip gives on clue.

 

Now I appreciate there are some immersion issues with fining slaves (who are property) but I could imagine an additional mechanic (tick box?) that indicated that crimes while enslaved lead to immediate arrest. And in most cases, there is a way to apply the debt; DF and SD+ both have slave debts that can be modified.

 

What I'd like to do, is make it so that:

• For slaves, being out at night, owning a weapon, or wearing armor, or casting magic, or not being naked, or sexy, while enslaved are all crimes.
• While for non-slaves, public sex, cum-covered, or masturbation are crimes.

At the moment, the only way I could get that sort of functionality is to write my own mod to do it, or privately modify SL Adventures.

Yet SL Adventures seems like it's quite close to it - in some ways.

[Barry W.]

Сan't make sleep rape work, all options like always naked are at maximum chances.

How to configure it right?

[shiagwen]

On 9/30/2019 at 6:02 PM, Barry W. said:

Сan't make sleep rape work, all options like always naked are at maximum chances.

How to configure it right?

i just wanted to write a post about this. sleep rape city 100%, in sleeping giant, nothing happens.

so what does city mean ?  sleeping on the roads ? need to sleep 8 hours ?

[Sorrow_421]

5 minutes ago, shiagwen said:

i just wanted to write a post about this. sleep rape city 100%, in sleeping giant, nothing happens.

so what does city mean ?  sleeping on the roads ? need to sleep 8 hours ?

I posted a comment about that a few weeks ago I think. If you have SexLab Survival then sleep rape will not work. If you disable SL Survival then it will work. It's strange because DCL sleep rape works and SexLab Dangerous Nights 2 works as well.

[legraf]

37 minutes ago, Sorrow_421 said:

I posted a comment about that a few weeks ago I think. If you have SexLab Survival then sleep rape will not work. If you disable SL Survival then it will work. It's strange because DCL sleep rape works and SexLab Dangerous Nights 2 works as well.

Does it work with either or both "Sleep Deprivation" and  "Trapped Easy Beds" turned off in SL Survival?

[Barry W.]

1 hour ago, Sorrow_421 said:

I posted a comment about that a few weeks ago I think. If you have SexLab Survival then sleep rape will not work. If you disable SL Survival then it will work. It's strange because DCL sleep rape works and SexLab Dangerous Nights 2 works as well.

Even without SL Survival it don't work. 

SexLab Dangerous Nights 2 (last versions) also not work.

I have SD+, thought problem is because of it. Even started new game without SD+, but sleep rape in SA still not working...

[Sorrow_421]

10 minutes ago, Barry W. said:

Even without SL Survival it don't work. 

SexLab Dangerous Nights 2 (last versions) also not work.

I have SD+, thought problem is because of it. Even started new game without SD+, but sleep rape in SA still not working...

Well for me that was the problem, so I don't know nor I am a modder. But when I uninstalled SL Survival and cleaned my save it worked. Also I had SL Survival & Dangerous Nights 2 & DCL active and DCL's Sleep rape worked and dangerous nights 2 worked. So yea. Can't help here cause I can't even help my self with that. I hope the author tries to find the problem because SA has really nice mechanics for rape and sleep rape. All other sleep rape mods are pretty much barebones compared SA's.

[Teutonic]

Sorry about the late reply.

 

On 9/28/2019 at 7:15 AM, DarksideTinkerbell said:

I was going through the usual set up for a new play through, when it occurred to me, no Mod that I have found actually incorporates a sexist point of view? 

The inspiration was while setting up Crime Laws for individual Holds

You have Public Sex with Modifiers right (as you obviously know lol)

Is it at all possible to include a Sexist Modifier, that would Influence Overall Bounties, (maybe with a Toggle for each Law to allow Sexist Modifiers or not), so for Example the Old Guy Jarl in Dawnstar could be a Sexist prick, and deem that all Bounties against Women are 2 times as High as the listed (with the Toggle you could then remove that increase from Public Nudity, cause he thinks all women should be Naked? Yeah he is a sexist misogynistic Prick). In any case something like that, even adding maybe to a similar function for some Bounties, like Thane Immunity but for Gender?  (The Jarl in Falkreath insists that all men must be clothed while all women naked so men are immune to the Nudity Laws.

Why don't you just set up the bounty twice as high? You are not going to switch between male and female characters mid game, aren't you?

 

On 9/28/2019 at 11:50 AM, Lupine00 said:

Another way would have been to replace the tick boxes for the per-hold crimes with sliders, so you set bounty 0 for no crime, or a hold-distinct bounty value... But that's probably not going to happen in SL Adventures at this point.

Not sure what you mean. Sure, the bounty toggle is somewhat redundant when the bounty is set to 0 anyway, but it's not like that matters much. But you can already set up hold-distinct bounty values.

 

On 9/28/2019 at 11:50 AM, Lupine00 said:

I still struggle with some things relating to collars:

• I can choose whether wearing or not wearing a collar is a crime.
• I can choose whether reports are invalid when collared.
• However, I can't choose that reports are only valid when collared, and, 
• I can set my PC to be marked enslaved, but I don't know what that actually does. What does it do? The tooltip gives on clue.

Having reports only be valid if collared is something I might add in the future.

The enslaved toggle is currently for rape only. It was intended as a band-aid for marking you "available" when enslaved if you want to use Sexlab Adventures' gangrape feature instead of that of whatever slavery mod you have installed.

On 9/28/2019 at 11:50 AM, Lupine00 said:

What I'd like to do, is make it so that:

• For slaves, being out at night, owning a weapon, or wearing armor, or casting magic, or not being naked, or sexy, while enslaved are all crimes.
• While for non-slaves, public sex, cum-covered, or masturbation are crimes.

Might make sense to add a menu option to provide options regarding enslavement (crime only for slaves, only for non-slaves, for everyone) and it's not difficult either (it will still only use the enslaved toggle until mod-based detection is implemented though).