Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[incrediblysecure]

On 9/19/2021 at 7:22 AM, naaitsab said:

On LE or SE? On LE it's not something I can relate to. As my mod has a very large assortment of custom items buyable from a vender.

@Laura as you have a vendor option in your mod as well. Have you run into this? If so perhaps it's something to check further.

 

le; seems to get much worse with multiple leveled lists or any amount of randomness. having a fixed set of items in a container tends to be fine, it's when you add any amount of variance through leveled lists, especially more than one, that you quickly run into some very odd issues

[naaitsab]

34 minutes ago, incrediblysecure said:

 

le; seems to get much worse with multiple leveled lists or any amount of randomness. having a fixed set of items in a container tends to be fine, it's when you add any amount of variance through leveled lists, especially more than one, that you quickly run into some very odd issues

Nested level-lists are a engine attention point. It's noted on one of the Creationkit.com pages to stay away from nesting as much as possible. So perhaps that's the issue.

On my mod I'm using a single list on/in a container. That works without issue as far as I know. You can check it you in the CreationKit if you want to.

[incrediblysecure]

44 minutes ago, naaitsab said:

Nested level-lists are a engine attention point. It's noted on one of the Creationkit.com pages to stay away from nesting as much as possible. So perhaps that's the issue.

On my mod I'm using a single list on/in a container. That works without issue as far as I know. You can check it you in the CreationKit if you want to.

it's been a while, but i recall that while nesting made the problems worse it wasn't the only factor that broke things. i *believe* that any time i attempted to populate different chests in the same cell with different leveled lists there was a chance that any items contained in those chests would have very broken behavior, even if the leveled lists were individually very simple. i gave up on randomness pretty fast and then gave up on the CK in general soon after; idk how you guys deal with it

[UnEvenSteven]

I got a wild hair again and bashed together another new harness, this version is collar-less. While there are some harnesses in the framework that don't have a collar they're simply "unlocked" versions. If there's any custom, collar-less harnesses in mods the collar is just removed. So how are those locked-on? They somehow just stay in place without the support of a collar that's attached.

 

I set out to create a harness with some shoulder straps to support a collar-less version.

 

Spoiler

 

I used the straps and metal bits from the armbinder to create the shoulder pieces. Had to also re-work the straps around the chest as you can see.

 

No more conflicts with collars, both can be worn together now.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Also covered the new crotch-less harness that should hopefully be in the next version of the framework. The collar-and-crotch-less harness should be quite compatible with other devices.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Screenshots with new harness and armbinder for no reason...

 

Spoiler

 

 

Almost quit a few times out of frustration trying to get parts bashed together. That and Outfit Studio started to become increasingly unstable the further I worked on the harness. Managed to finish in the end though. Still needs a few more tweaks here and there but I think it turned out well.

 

 

Now for something else, as some of you know I re-worked just about every catsuit-related device back here and the changes should be in the next version of the framework. I know some people didn't like some of the changes mainly in regards to the catsuit loosing it's seamless-ness. While I think one person brought the issue up here in this thread I've seen a couple of others complain about the changes but did it elsewhere 

 

I've heard you, I looked into bringing back the seamless-ness while also keeping the other changes I have done.

 

Spoiler

 

"But DumbEvenSteven, that's just the catsuit with the regular gloves and socks!" 

 

And you'd be correct....however what you're seeing is a single mesh. The gloves and socks are no longer separate, they are now part of the catsuit so it's just a single and "seamless" mesh now. Well as seamless as I could get, you can't weld vertices in OS. I just moved them around to make the gloves and socks as seamless as possible.

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Thanks to partitions the hands and feet will be hidden/removed if you're wearing boots or other gloves.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Primarily a concept right now, still need to do more testing and iron out some kinks but I think it'll work. Transparent version is giving me the most trouble.

 

I don't want to remove devices so the short gloves will stay as a separate device. As for the socks and if Kimy approves they could be replaced by some new boots.

 

Spoiler

 

These boots do come from the same mod as the other catsuit items and the permissions appear to open. I initially saw these boots in Deviously Pink but they didn't have a BodySlide. So of course I created a body slide for these boots and added cuffs. No new textures needed as they use the same texture as the catsuit collar and gas mask. Once again if Kimy approves these boots could replace the separate catsuit socks.

 

 

And sorry, but no uploads to play around with this time. I'm waiting for Kimy to drop a test/beta version of framework, with the extensive changes made to the BodySlide folders I'll need that new base to work from.

[circuit]

3 hours ago, UnEvenSteven said:

I got a wild hair again and bashed together another new harness, this version is collar-less. While there are some harnesses in the framework that don't have a collar they're simply "unlocked" versions. If there's any custom, collar-less harnesses in mods the collar is just removed. So how are those locked-on? They somehow just stay in place without the support of a collar that's attached.

 

I set out to create a harness with some shoulder straps to support a collar-less version.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I used the straps and metal bits from the armbinder to create the shoulder pieces. Had to also re-work the straps around the chest as you can see.

 

No more conflicts with collars, both can be worn together now.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Also covered the new crotch-less harness that should hopefully be in the next version of the framework. The collar-and-crotch-less harness should be quite compatible with other devices.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Screenshots with new harness and armbinder for no reason...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Almost quit a few times out of frustration trying to get parts bashed together. That and Outfit Studio started to become increasingly unstable the further I worked on the harness. Managed to finish in the end though. Still needs a few more tweaks here and there but I think it turned out well.

 

 

Now for something else, as some of you know I re-worked just about every catsuit-related device back here and the changes should be in the next version of the framework. I know some people didn't like some of the changes mainly in regards to the catsuit loosing it's seamless-ness. While I think one person brought the issue up here in this thread I've seen a couple of others complain about the changes but did it elsewhere 

 

I've heard you, I looked into bringing back the seamless-ness while also keeping the other changes I have done.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

"But DumbEvenSteven, that's just the catsuit with the regular gloves and socks!" 

 

And you'd be correct....however what you're seeing is a single mesh. The gloves and socks are no longer separate, they are now part of the catsuit so it's just a single and "seamless" mesh now. Well as seamless as I could get, you can't weld vertices in OS. I just moved them around to make the gloves and socks as seamless as possible.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Thanks to partitions the hands and feet will be hidden/removed if you're wearing boots or other gloves.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Primarily a concept right now, still need to do more testing and iron out some kinks but I think it'll work. Transparent version is giving me the most trouble.

 

I don't want to remove devices so the short gloves will stay as a separate device. As for the socks and if Kimy approves they could be replaced by some new boots.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

These boots do come from the same mod as the other catsuit items and the permissions appear to open. I initially saw these boots in Deviously Pink but they didn't have a BodySlide. So of course I created a body slide for these boots and added cuffs. No new textures needed as they use the same texture as the catsuit collar and gas mask. Once again if Kimy approves these boots could replace the separate catsuit socks.

 

 

And sorry, but no uploads to play around with this time. I'm waiting for Kimy to drop a test/beta version of framework, with the extensive changes made to the BodySlide folders I'll need that new base to work from.

I Very much like the shoulder straps as an option... but I also like the integrated look of the current catsuit collars, so I'm torn on the idea of them being a strait replacement.

[tznvlw]

6 hours ago, UnEvenSteven said:

I got a wild hair again and bashed together another new harness, this version is collar-less. While there are some harnesses in the framework that don't have a collar they're simply "unlocked" versions. If there's any custom, collar-less harnesses in mods the collar is just removed. So how are those locked-on? They somehow just stay in place without the support of a collar that's attached.

 

I set out to create a harness with some shoulder straps to support a collar-less version.

 

  Hide contents

 

I used the straps and metal bits from the armbinder to create the shoulder pieces. Had to also re-work the straps around the chest as you can see.

 

No more conflicts with collars, both can be worn together now.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Also covered the new crotch-less harness that should hopefully be in the next version of the framework. The collar-and-crotch-less harness should be quite compatible with other devices.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Screenshots with new harness and armbinder for no reason...

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Almost quit a few times out of frustration trying to get parts bashed together. That and Outfit Studio started to become increasingly unstable the further I worked on the harness. Managed to finish in the end though. Still needs a few more tweaks here and there but I think it turned out well.

 

 

Now for something else, as some of you know I re-worked just about every catsuit-related device back here and the changes should be in the next version of the framework. I know some people didn't like some of the changes mainly in regards to the catsuit loosing it's seamless-ness. While I think one person brought the issue up here in this thread I've seen a couple of others complain about the changes but did it elsewhere 

 

I've heard you, I looked into bringing back the seamless-ness while also keeping the other changes I have done.

 

  Hide contents

 

"But DumbEvenSteven, that's just the catsuit with the regular gloves and socks!" 

 

And you'd be correct....however what you're seeing is a single mesh. The gloves and socks are no longer separate, they are now part of the catsuit so it's just a single and "seamless" mesh now. Well as seamless as I could get, you can't weld vertices in OS. I just moved them around to make the gloves and socks as seamless as possible.

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Thanks to partitions the hands and feet will be hidden/removed if you're wearing boots or other gloves.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Primarily a concept right now, still need to do more testing and iron out some kinks but I think it'll work. Transparent version is giving me the most trouble.

 

I don't want to remove devices so the short gloves will stay as a separate device. As for the socks and if Kimy approves they could be replaced by some new boots.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

These boots do come from the same mod as the other catsuit items and the permissions appear to open. I initially saw these boots in Deviously Pink but they didn't have a BodySlide. So of course I created a body slide for these boots and added cuffs. No new textures needed as they use the same texture as the catsuit collar and gas mask. Once again if Kimy approves these boots could replace the separate catsuit socks.

 

 

And sorry, but no uploads to play around with this time. I'm waiting for Kimy to drop a test/beta version of framework, with the extensive changes made to the BodySlide folders I'll need that new base to work from.

 

@UnEvenSteven Good Work   I really like them very much. I would like to ask, as end users, when can we see them??

[UnEvenSteven]

9 hours ago, circuit said:

I Very much like the shoulder straps as an option... but I also like the integrated look of the current catsuit collars, so I'm torn on the idea of them being a strait replacement.

 

No worries, they won't be a replacement for existing harnesses. Just another option.

 

 

7 hours ago, tznvlw said:

 

@UnEvenSteven Good Work   I really like them very much. I would like to ask, as end users, when can we see them??

 

As stated in my post I'm waiting for Kimy to drop to the next beta/test version of the framework before uploading anything. No idea when she plans on doing that, though.

[tznvlw]

1 hour ago, UnEvenSteven said:

As stated in my post I'm waiting for Kimy to drop to the next beta/test version of the framework before uploading anything. No idea when she plans on doing that, though.

 

Thank you very much for your reply. It seems that we will have more options in the new version of DD??

[Kimy]

19 hours ago, UnEvenSteven said:

 

'm waiting for Kimy to drop a test/beta version of framework, with the extensive changes made to the BodySlide folders I'll need that new base to work from. No idea when she plans on doing that, though.

 

 

Soon!™

Edited September 23, 2021 by Kimy

[Gräfin Zeppelin]

On 9/22/2021 at 10:07 PM, UnEvenSteven said:

I got a wild hair again and bashed together another new harness, this version is collar-less. While there are some harnesses in the framework that don't have a collar they're simply "unlocked" versions. If there's any custom, collar-less harnesses in mods the collar is just removed. So how are those locked-on? They somehow just stay in place without the support of a collar that's attached.

 

I set out to create a harness with some shoulder straps to support a collar-less version.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I used the straps and metal bits from the armbinder to create the shoulder pieces. Had to also re-work the straps around the chest as you can see.

 

No more conflicts with collars, both can be worn together now.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Also covered the new crotch-less harness that should hopefully be in the next version of the framework. The collar-and-crotch-less harness should be quite compatible with other devices.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Screenshots with new harness and armbinder for no reason...

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Almost quit a few times out of frustration trying to get parts bashed together. That and Outfit Studio started to become increasingly unstable the further I worked on the harness. Managed to finish in the end though. Still needs a few more tweaks here and there but I think it turned out well.

 

 

Now for something else, as some of you know I re-worked just about every catsuit-related device back here and the changes should be in the next version of the framework. I know some people didn't like some of the changes mainly in regards to the catsuit loosing it's seamless-ness. While I think one person brought the issue up here in this thread I've seen a couple of others complain about the changes but did it elsewhere 

 

I've heard you, I looked into bringing back the seamless-ness while also keeping the other changes I have done.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

"But DumbEvenSteven, that's just the catsuit with the regular gloves and socks!" 

 

And you'd be correct....however what you're seeing is a single mesh. The gloves and socks are no longer separate, they are now part of the catsuit so it's just a single and "seamless" mesh now. Well as seamless as I could get, you can't weld vertices in OS. I just moved them around to make the gloves and socks as seamless as possible.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Thanks to partitions the hands and feet will be hidden/removed if you're wearing boots or other gloves.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Primarily a concept right now, still need to do more testing and iron out some kinks but I think it'll work. Transparent version is giving me the most trouble.

 

I don't want to remove devices so the short gloves will stay as a separate device. As for the socks and if Kimy approves they could be replaced by some new boots.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

These boots do come from the same mod as the other catsuit items and the permissions appear to open. I initially saw these boots in Deviously Pink but they didn't have a BodySlide. So of course I created a body slide for these boots and added cuffs. No new textures needed as they use the same texture as the catsuit collar and gas mask. Once again if Kimy approves these boots could replace the separate catsuit socks.

 

 

And sorry, but no uploads to play around with this time. I'm waiting for Kimy to drop a test/beta version of framework, with the extensive changes made to the BodySlide folders I'll need that new base to work from.

Considering you are filling gaps I just wanted to point out that there are no Ebonite ballet heels, just the matte "leather" ones.

Just saying, I would love to have them but this aint a request.

[UnEvenSteven]

2 hours ago, Gräfin Zeppelin said:

Considering you are filling gaps I just wanted to point out that there are no Ebonite ballet heels, just the matte "leather" ones.

Just saying, I would love to have them but this aint a request.

 

It'd take more than simply changing some shader values of the boots in order to give them the appearance of Ebonite. It would require quite a bit of texture work to achieve that Ebonite look. The diffuse would need be darker and have that smooth, sleek appearance that other Ebonite devices have. Also the normal map and specular map would require similar work.

 

I'm not a texture artist so I couldn't do this 

[DeWired]

19 hours ago, Kimy said:

 

Soon!™

Speaking of the next version, there are some ideas that I had:

1. Making everything configurable. As I understand it, main problem with this is MCM quirks, so how about making everything a property on config quest, exposing to MCM only selected important ones. But, all goes into and from backup. So, every mod that wants to change something, like Devious Training - can do it. Every user that wants something tweaked, can export settings to json, change hidden values, and import them back.

2. In the previous vein, adding a hidden "hardcore" option, that when changed to 1, disables MCM completely, including import and free_me options.

3. Adding craftable "free_me" analogue, with sufficiently hard requirements.

4. Some kind of "priming" devices before equip - like, prepared form in storage, that device can access in equip phase and modify it's internal values accordingly - so, it would be possible to set timers and properties like "DestroyOnRemove" in runtime. With protections like including gametime and device keyword, so that device can check validity of data before applying it.

5. Also, exposing more of device data to storage - not only jammed status, but also timers, lockshield, difficulty type - normal, blockGeneric, or quest, number of keys to unlock. Also, exposing if it can be tightened. Also, exposing device escape difficulty and updating it if it changes, for example, with failed escape attempts.

6. Rearranging event system even more: right now, there are some events that are hardcoded and tied to their devices, like inflatable pump events. So, changing device effects to use events and lib functions, separating inflatable pump events to self pump (adding to new event system properly) and NPC-driven pump - is it possible to do include NPC-driven event into the event system?

7. Almost forgot - it would be great for "Call for help" gag menu doing something, other them making player moan. Namely, sending modevent.

 

I also want to properly articulate my position: I want opinion on that ideas, not actually implementing them immediately. If they are considered worthy to include, it is possible I would do a coding myself. And if I wouldn't, I won't demand anyone doing it ? 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by DeWired
Almost forgot about "Call for Help"...

[circuit]

Several things have come up in my mind worth sharing:

Easy fixes/adds:

• With the new slave harnesses, I think they need to be altered to allow genital piercings.  As of right now, (using the beta release from several posts ago), they allow plugs to be taken out/inserted, but not piercings~
• It'd be nice to see furniture keys drop with other keys in cursed loot, now that there are furniture traps.
• On last check, the beast versions of the Gold and Silver collars (regular size, not posture) are trying to use the posture collar textures, when they should be using the "cuff" textures.

Harder but interesting idea:

• tweak the bound girls in cursed loot so that when you untie them, you get to keep their restraints as a reward, instead of just random loot.
• For cursed loot, replace some puzzles in dungeons with devious furniture you have to lock yourself into for a set amount of time.  I understand that the implementation of this would likely be nightmarish if not impossible, but I thought it was a kinky enough idea to be worth mentioning.
• For cursed loot, tweak furniture so that you can wait/rest while locked in place, but you run the risk of a devious event happening, like some locking more restraints onto you while you sleep, or someone fiddling with locks, adding/extending timers.

Edited September 30, 2021 by circuit

[UnEvenSteven]

On 9/29/2021 at 9:08 PM, circuit said:

Several things have come up in my mind worth sharing:

Easy fixes/adds:

• With the new slave harnesses, I think they need to be altered to allow genital piercings.  As of right now, (using the beta release from several posts ago), they allow plugs to be taken out/inserted, but not piercings~

 

 

Already noticed a similar issue with the collar-less harnesses and other collars. It works if you wear the harness first then equip a collar but if you try it the other way around, collar first then harness then it won't work. Already created a couple of new scripts for the collar-less harnesses to address this issue, they don't check for a collar now.

 

As for the clitoral piercings either a new keyword for the open/crotch-less harnesses would be needed (zad_DeviousOpenHarness) or the script for the piercings needs to be edited to not check for harnesses. 

 

Not sure which route Kimy would go but either option needs to be done for the next update if she hasn't already.

 

EDIT: A new keyword for "open" harnesses would also work well for several rope harness devices that have a similar problem.

Edited October 1, 2021 by UnEvenSteven

[no_way]

I've got a number of DD mods installed in SSE

 

DD 5.1

Deviously Helpless

Devious Lore

DD Equip

ZaZ AP

 

For some reason, certain yokes when equipped have a truncated running animation, as if its too short or too long and doesnt finish at the same spot as they begain, resulting in a distracting animation stutter.  

 

Any idea what could be causing this or how to fix?  Removing FNIS sexy move or patching it with monomans patch didn't help

 

 

[Herowynne]

4 hours ago, no_way said:

certain yokes when equipped have a truncated running animation

 

Which yokes?

[neghthraw]

@Kimy

I did a retexture of the pony boots, mainly focusing on the metal parts. The texture files still have the same size and resolution as before, but due to the lossy DXT compression the colors have been altered slightly, especially on the leather variants (might be a problem with some ENBs? idk).

Also, I have no idea who the author of the original textures is (my guess would be Xinafay, but I don't know for sure) (From the DD mod page: "For all art assets used by this mod, all conditions set by their original creators apply instead. Please contact the respective author for further information on permissions etc."). Is it ok to upload them to this topic?

 

Spoiler

Black Ebonite

 

 

The big "pixels" you can still see on all ebonite boots are caused by the ebonite texture and not a part of the modified textures.

 

Spoiler

Red ebonite

 

Spoiler

White ebonite

 

Spoiler

Black leather

 

Spoiler

Red leather

 

Spoiler

White leather

[no_way]

On 10/7/2021 at 6:46 PM, Herowynne said:

 

Which yokes?

All the DD ones.  The zaz ones that can be removed at will have normal unclippy animations.

[Kimy]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:45 AM, neghthraw said:

@Kimy

I did a retexture of the pony boots, mainly focusing on the metal parts. The texture files still have the same size and resolution as before, but due to the lossy DXT compression the colors have been altered slightly, especially on the leather variants (might be a problem with some ENBs? idk).

Also, I have no idea who the author of the original textures is (my guess would be Xinafay, but I don't know for sure) (From the DD mod page: "For all art assets used by this mod, all conditions set by their original creators apply instead. Please contact the respective author for further information on permissions etc."). Is it ok to upload them to this topic?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Black Ebonite

 

 

The big "pixels" you can still see on all ebonite boots are caused by the ebonite texture and not a part of the modified textures.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Red ebonite

 

  Reveal hidden contents

White ebonite

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Black leather

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Red leather

 

  Reveal hidden contents

White leather

 

Yeah, that's fine! Great work btw!

[neghthraw]

3 hours ago, Kimy said:

 

Yeah, that's fine! Great work btw!

Thanks!

 

textures.zip

[donttouchmethere]

On 9/23/2021 at 11:24 PM, Gräfin Zeppelin said:

Considering you are filling gaps I just wanted to point out that there are no Ebonite ballet heels, just the matte "leather" ones.

Just saying, I would love to have them but this aint a request.

(you can find some shiny black ebonite ones in DDe) ?

[circuit]

As a thought, since latex/ebonite suits have zippers in the crotch, could they be tweaked to not block sex?

[naaitsab]

5 hours ago, circuit said:

As a thought, since latex/ebonite suits have zippers in the crotch, could they be tweaked to not block sex?

Ever tried having sex trough a locked metal zipper?  I think It's more the job of a mod to do that. Like if the player/attacker has a key for the suit.

[circuit]

Not sure if this is actually already implemented, but the idea just came to me:
100% success chance to pick a restraint lock if you have the Skeleton Key on you.

[circuit]

18 hours ago, naaitsab said:

Ever tried having sex trough a locked metal zipper?  I think It's more the job of a mod to do that. Like if the player/attacker has a key for the suit.

Could add an option to lock/unlock the crotch zip in the use menu, like panel gags have an option to remove their plug.