Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[thedarkone1234]

Amazing update. Both kinds of boxbinders work great and also the transparent catsuit (and all catsuits in general) are supreme and work great with any gloves I tested. However, a few problems I found:

 

1. When equipping restrictive boots and running or sprinting, my thighs keep jumping outside the boots. It happens even if I reset any leg racemenu sliders (unless I missed one). Attached a picture. The bug doesn't happen if I wear  any clothing items when walking, even if these clothes don't hide the area at all.

Spoiler

 

2. When wearing a catsuit after having these boots equipped, I got the following bug where the ankles are missing and the boots are invisible.

 

Spoiler

 

3. The transparent catsuit is not as versatile as other catsuits when on a "blessed" body. For that one I don't have pictures (forgot to take), but in general it means small areas in the butt and breasts are peaking out of the thin transparent layer.

 

And another thing which might concern DCL more than DD actually: the DCL suits do not inherit the model upgrade of the DD suit. Specifically I consoled the exhibitionist suit on me and it had the old transparent model (which was all well and good but really can't compete). Is it possible in a future update to make it so DD mods are able to depend directly on DD if they choose to, so that model and mesh upgrades in DD will automatically upgrade the mod's items? If I understand correctly, it will reduce the overall number of bodyslides to build too.

 

[zarantha]

22 minutes ago, thedarkone1234 said:

However, a few problems I found:

 

Are you on SE? Just curious - those look more like issues I see often on SE. the first is with the newer bodies (3BA, BHUNP), those bodies have extra thigh weights and will clip out like that if the weights aren't transferred to the item. The second is the missing forearms/calves slots bug in the AA of the items, in the esp. Even if you're not, the fix will probably be along those lines.

 

For DCL, a short term easy fix would be to copy the transparent catsuit and replace DCL's zipsuits after you've built the catsuit for DD. Long term would need a DCL update like you thought.

[thedarkone1234]

23 minutes ago, zarantha said:

 

Are you on SE? Just curious - those look more like issues I see often on SE. the first is with the newer bodies (3BA, BHUNP), those bodies have extra thigh weights and will clip out like that if the weights aren't transferred to the item. The second is the missing forearms/calves slots bug in the AA of the items, in the esp. Even if you're not, the fix will probably be along those lines.

Not on SE but am using BHUNP TBBP (mostly for the vagina and anus it gives). I thought I was careful not to use any slider which does not exist on UUNP but I will double check. Doubt it is that though because as I said, even resetting those sliders didn't make the issue disappear

[thedarkone1234]

Double checked with fully zeroed sliders on the body in total. Still the same clipping, still only while naked.

 

Also discovered that the bug with the invisible boots and ankles only happens with normal catsuits and not straightjacket catsuits, so it looks like something that could be easily fixed if the part from the straightjacket suit that is working right replaces the part of the normal catsuit that doesn't.

 

But... I did discover one more bug as I was testing that. It seems straightjacket catsuit do not unequip or hide gloves either XD

 

Spoiler

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by thedarkone1234

[zarantha]

44 minutes ago, thedarkone1234 said:

Double checked with fully zeroed sliders on the body in total. Still the same clipping, but only while naked.

 

Also discovered that the bug with the invisible boots and ankles only happens with normal catsuits and not straightjacket catsuits, so it looks like something that could be easily fixed if the part from the straightjacket suit that is working right replaces the part of the normal catsuit that doesn't.

 

But... I did discover one more bug as I was testing that. It seems straightjacket catsuit do not unequip or hide gloves either XD

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

It's not the sliders, it's the weight painting. It only clips when you're naked because when you wear another outfit with the boots, they have the same weight painting. when you're naked, the body weights don't match the boot weights. Pretty sure that bhunp, even the LE version, has rear thigh and front thigh weights, in addition to the normal thigh weights. You'll probably need to wait for the bhunp conversion to get updated, but if you're interested in fixing it yourself:

 

Spoiler

I'm using 3BA here, but it's the same principal.

 

Open the boots in outfit studio. Load in your reference body, then go to the bones tab. you'll need the 3 thigh weights, and probably should get the calf as well if you have it. if they don't match up, you'll see the colors on the body, but not on the boot, or the colors don't line up. I've pressed 'T' to turn off textures so this is easier to see.

 

For the boots, it's as simple as right clicking the boots on the meshes tab, and select copy bone weights. Delete the body when you're done and then save it. close and reopen bodyslide so it picks up the change and rebuild the boots. For other outfits it can be more complex. I'd recommend leaving the dresses and straitjackets alone unless you're good with manually weight painting.

 

the straitjacket and restrictive gloves -> lol, whoops. that's an interesting bug. i'd expect those would be hidden with the hands, since they're the same slot.

Edited October 31, 2021 by zarantha

[UnEvenSteven]

KNOWN ISSUE/DISCLAIMER

 

I'll try my best to explain this. All these issues with devices not appearing or disappearing correctly is due to how devices are layered on top of each other. In the ArmorAddon entry for devices there's a "Priority" setting that determines which device (or clothing/armor) should be displayed if it shares the same Biped Slot with other device.

 

Catsuits, for example, have a priority setting of 5 while various boots and gloves have a setting of 10. Some of these gloves and boots share the same Biped Slots with Catsuit but priority should be given to them and not the catsuit. The priority will work fine if you equip a catsuit first followed by gloves or boots. However if try to wear a catsuit after you're already wearing boots or gloves then parts of the devices will be missing despite have a higher priority. 

 

This means it's either the priority system not working correctly in-game or it's because the way devices are equipped that they're ignoring the priority settings. Saving and reloading the game while wearing the offending devices usually fixes the issue but I know that's not optimal.

 

I don't know what can be done, the problem existed before any recent updates so it's always been there in some fashion. I don't know if there's any coding that could "re-load" the player character's model to potentially help with this problem after equipping certain devices.

 

It's not a bug with devices, it's an issue with either Skyrim being Skyrim or it's the way devices are equipped and the priority setting is being ignored.

[UnEvenSteven]

Furthermore for any issues with clipping you need to be sure you are using either a CBBE or UUNP body. Not COS, not BHUNP and not MEGATIGBITTIESDELUXE body. As pointed out BHUNP and I believe COS have different weight painting for their bodies and will not be 100% compatible with DD Framework devices until a conversion is made.

[UnEvenSteven]

5 hours ago, zarantha said:

 

Dammit, I was hoping i'd be finished today with a conversion for SE users to test. Oh well, at least i'm not too far behind this time.

 

Nice work!

 

Heh, sorry about that. I had to get this release out. I'm about to start a new job and training begins later this week and there's other RL stuff I need to get done before then. My time to work on anything will be massively cut for a good while.

[UnEvenSteven]

And I don't mean to be ass if the tone of my recent posts came off as such nor am I targeting anyone in particular.

 

My posts are just blanket responses for anyone that brings up these issues.

[zarantha]

12 minutes ago, UnEvenSteven said:

 

Heh, sorry about that. I had to get this release out. I'm about to start a new job and training begins later this week and there's other RL stuff I need to get done before then. My time to work on anything will be massively cut for a good while.

 

No worries, better to get it out now. It would be nice to get a version for SE users to try with outfits that fit, but it's doable with a little fiddling even so.

[Herowynne]

1 hour ago, UnEvenSteven said:

not MEGATIGBITTIESDELUXE body

 

58 minutes ago, UnEvenSteven said:

I don't mean to be ass if the tone of my recent posts came off as such

 

I thought it was hilarious. ?

[thedarkone1234]

Yet another hiding bug, but one that did not resolve itself when saving and reloading. The restrictive boots hide ankle chains (Not sure how to prove it with a picture, so there is none)

[naaitsab]

6 hours ago, UnEvenSteven said:

Furthermore for any issues with clipping you need to be sure you are using either a CBBE or UUNP body. Not COS, not BHUNP and not MEGATIGBITTIESDELUXE body. As pointed out BHUNP and I believe COS have different weight painting for their bodies and will not be 100% compatible with DD Framework devices until a conversion is made.

Laughed way to hard after reading this ?Surprises me there isn't a body called MEGATIGBITTIESDELUXE already.

 

The new texture jobs seems to be completely matte, not glossy anymore. Like latex that needs a good polishing. Is this intended or is it messing with my ENB (Vivid Weathers)?

[UnEvenSteven]

8 hours ago, naaitsab said:

Laughed way to hard after reading this ?Surprises me there isn't a body called MEGATIGBITTIESDELUXE already.

 

The new texture jobs seems to be completely matte, not glossy anymore. Like latex that needs a good polishing. Is this intended or is it messing with my ENB (Vivid Weathers)?

 

Definitely should not be matte, should be nice and shiny similar to the Zip Suit or Transparent Hobble Dress. Do those two look okay in your game? 

 

I don't use ENB but I know I've read time and time again that it tends to mess up alpha channels or the glossiness of objects.

Edited November 1, 2021 by UnEvenSteven

[UnEvenSteven]

13 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said:

Yet another hiding bug, but one that did not resolve itself when saving and reloading. The restrictive boots hide ankle chains (Not sure how to prove it with a picture, so there is none)

 

Probably one of the oldest examples of how devices are layered, how certain devices may hide other devices.

 

Restrictive Boots use Biped Slots:

• 37 - Feet
• 38 - Calves
• 53 - Unnamed (ModLegLeft in NifSkope/OS, used for various Leg Cuffs and Ankle Chains)

It should be noted that Restrictive Boots have partitions that will hide parts of the boot when wearing other devices such as Hobble Dresses, thus requiring the extra Biped Slots.

 

Ankle Chains (Iron Fetters in-game) use:

• 53 - Unnamed

Since Restrictive Boots have a higher priority than the various leg cuff devices they are usually hidden when wearing Restrictive Boots. What's odd here is that Priority setting seems to work without fail with Restrictive Boots and Leg Cuffs/Fetters. It appears that no matter the order your wear the devices the Cuffs will always be hidden by the boots. I don't know why it doesn't do the same for other devices mentioned in the thread.

 

As a test I created non-scripted (i.e. normal) versions of the catsuit, long gloves and the new boots. No matter the order my character wore the devices the Priority system was working every time. The gloves and boots were never invisible. 

 

So that makes me believe it has to do with some underlying problem with Skyrim or it's the way devices are equipped on your character. Remember the devices that are shown on our characters are equipped by script and that may be the reason why the Priority setting seems to be ignored. I don't know.

Edited November 1, 2021 by UnEvenSteven

[thedarkone1234]

2 hours ago, UnEvenSteven said:

Probably one of the oldest examples of how devices are layered, how certain devices may hide other devices.

...

Since Restrictive Boots have a higher priority than the various leg cuff devices they are usually hidden when wearing Restrictive Boots. What's odd here is that Priority setting seems to work without fail with Restrictive Boots and Leg Cuffs/Fetters. It appears that no matter the order your wear the devices the Cuffs will always be hidden by the boots. I don't know why it doesn't do the same for other devices mentioned in the thread.

Well, it used to work the other way around (fetters always above boots) in previous versions. Maybe the fetter's priority should be raised a little so it beats the boots again? Maybe the error is simply caused because the fetter's priority got accidently matched to other leg cuffs?

[naaitsab]

2 hours ago, UnEvenSteven said:

 

Definitely should not be matte, should be nice and shiny similar to the Zip Suit or Transparent Hobble Dress. Do those two look okay in your game? 

 

I don't use ENB but I know I've read time and time again that it tends to mess up alpha channels or the glossiness of objects.

Could be the weather preset also. Reset it and it's more glossy. Not close to the original but that might a bit much in hindsight but as it the default one it's my reference point. It does look more realistic but a bit less fetishy so to speak. 

 

With the new items working together better the device hider perhaps could also get an update to reflect this. Not sure if it would be possible but tagging items to wear over the catsuit/boxbinder-outfit for instance would be cool. So you can wear a belt or corset over the suit or under. Without messing in the menu, if a mod author could set this on equip that would also be a nice one to have. You also talked about the breasts in the catsuit complying to the bra. Would it be possible to "squash" the catsuit boobs part entirely so they don't collide? That way it doesn't conflict and cause the clipping. I believe this is already done for the "real" breasts (NiOverride ?) so not sure if that also could apply to bones in a clothing mesh. Making "separate" breasts is also an option but I kinda like the look. This mod has them separate for example (FO4) https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/30595

[UnEvenSteven]

1 hour ago, thedarkone1234 said:

Well, it used to work the other way around (fetters always above boots) in previous versions. Maybe the fetter's priority should be raised a little so it beats the boots again? Maybe the error is simply caused because the fetter's priority got accidently matched to other leg cuffs?

 

If you increase the priority of the iron fetters then the top portion of the restrictive boots will become invisible when worn together.  That's the partition on the boots that use Biped Slot 53 - Unnamed, the same slot as leg cuffs/fetters. Catch-22's all around.

 

I can't recall a time when the fetters would appear above restrictive boots, maybe early versions used to do that. The fetters work fine with other boots, though.

[thedarkone1234]

Might be some fuckup on my end, but any chance anyone else have all elbowbinders completely invisible (armbinders are visible, only the elbowbinder variants have this bug)?

It happens both on the player character and NPC, regardless of wearing other pieces of bondage or not.

[zarantha]

SE conversion with 3BA bodyslides as well. I managed to redo the bodyslides enough that I could shove a whole 'nother body in there, with Roggvir's help. And only slightly larger than the LE size.

 

DD 5.2 beta 1 SE/VR: https://mega.nz/file/Mah02KgA#H40jpIsYlB47Oi0ED-FqzGQzxs3YxcoxZCc6CfWtGcA

 

Edit: This should fix the boxbinder texture missing as well as allow Vortex to install the FOMOD.

Edited November 3, 2021 by zarantha
Updated FOMOD to work with Vortex

[thedarkone1234]

Ok, this one is going to be a little weird, but it seems the armbinders too have a very odd problem. When NPCs wear an armbinder their arms are not together enough, resulting in clipping through it. However, the player character does not have this problem even if she is the same body type and sliders as the NPC. To make things even more weird, during bound sex animation, the NPC places her arms properly inside her armbinder. It seems not the size of the binder is bugged, but the pose of the NPC wearing it when idle/walking. Not a bodyslide problem but a FNIS problem, if I had to guess.

 

Attaching a picture of us standing next to one another. The player is on the left side and has her arms properly inside (I switched to a preset with zeroed sliders so that my body gets the same shape as hers, to show its not a shoulder-width issue). Ignore the part where Lydia's armbinder also goes into her butt, that's only because she turned herself to look at my character, but you can still see her arms are going out.

 

Spoiler

 

And here is Lydia (back facing us) in the middle of a scene, arms exactly where they should be, proving that they can and do fit the size, just not the pose:

 

Spoiler

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by thedarkone1234

[UnEvenSteven]

11 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said:

Might be some fuckup on my end, but any chance anyone else have all elbowbinders completely invisible (armbinders are visible, only the elbowbinder variants have this bug)?

It happens both on the player character and NPC, regardless of wearing other pieces of bondage or not.

 

Not your fuckup, there isn't a pre-built version of the Elbowbinder anymore. 5.2 included a body slider for elbowbinders but I thought it was only for CBBE and not both that and UUNP. I also didn't notice the lack of a pre-built elbowbinder that previous versions of the framework used to have, if anyone was using UUNP they'd have invisible elbowbinders.

 

Simple and quick enough to fix, the following patch includes a body slider for both the leather and ebonite versions of the elbowbinder for UUNP. Also tweaked both the CBBE and UUNP versions to hopefully reduce some clipping with the under-arm strap.

 

FOR EVERYONE DO NOT USE this patch without my larger patch from here, you will screw something up. This is meant to be installed on top my larger patch. If you're not using my larger patch then don't use this and just wait for Kimy to update the test build.

 

Elbowbinder Patch.7z

[thedarkone1234]

12 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said:

Ok, this one is going to be a little weird, but it seems the armbinders too have a very odd problem.

 

A followup on that given the new working elbowbinders: NPCs do not have the same pose error as with armbinders, and their arms fit perfectly inside the binders.

 

So in short, the error is only in the pose that serves as idle/walking/running, for NPC's only, with armbinders only.

 

Here are Lydia and my character displaying good elbowbinder pose for the two of them (and since it is all about pose, of course the difference in our sliders didn't matter anyhow~)

 

Spoiler

 

[thedarkone1234]

There is a new visual bug on the iron breast yoke, but this one I am not sure how easy it would be to fix (though I *can* tell it is new and didn't exist in 5.1).

 

Characters whose breasts are bigger (slider play only, same bodytype) always had the yoke move accordingly, which is great. But since 5.2 there is a piece of metal that didn't exist before (or didn't scale with the breast area before) which, when moved, clips into the player's hands.

 

Ideally to fix it, that part of the item should be tied to the wrist cuff itself, which doesn't scale with breasts, and not to the middle part. It existed before so I know its a possibility, but I don't know what issues it had that made you guys change it. So you tell me if the fix is possible or not:

 

Attaching a picture showing the issue on my character with whom I messed a lot with breast sliders:

 

Spoiler

 

And a picture of the same character in the same place when I use showracemenu and switch to a zero-slider preset (I gotta emphasize the difference is solely in sliders, and not body type or bodyslide. Both pictures got taken in the same 2 minutes with only showracemenu in the middle):

 

Spoiler

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by thedarkone1234
Better fitting pictures

[thedarkone1234]

Aaand one bug related this time to animation filtering: When wearing a chastity belt and creature filter is active it will always break animations into DDBeltedSolo even if the animations are oral (and that filter option is actually supposed to temporarily remove DD items for creature animations, so it shouldn't revert to DDBeltedSolo either way). But I gotta say an improvement from 5.1: in 5.1 even with that option disabled creatures reverted to DDBeltedSolo.

 

By the way, as a general note I always think breaking a non-solo scene into DDBeltedSolo is not a good thing because it seperates two actors that should have been together into individual not-same-length scenes, causing severe issues with any mechanic that requires the scene to end (such as DCL "bind after rape" or simply "trigger next rapist in the queue") and releasing character control in a time when it shouldn't be possible. I personally would prefer a nonsensical rape-through-belt scene than falling into DDBeltedSolo in such cases, and tbh, I always exit and reload a save if such a thing ever happens (unless it replaces a solo masturbation, which it was made for, obviously)

Edited November 2, 2021 by thedarkone1234