ToJKa Posted May 6, 2016 Posted May 6, 2016 Do you guys also apply the same smear to Bioware and CD Project as that's likely where BSG got the inspiration from (one that I feel is misguided given their kind of game). Of course, i bitch about everyone equally. For example, Larian really screwed up with the townspeople voices in Divinity Original Sin Enhanced Edition. The new ones are just bad The problem was they were repated too often, that doesn't mean you need to re-record them, geniuoses!
Trykz Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 "No Combat In Water" That little checkbox on the race form told me everything I needed to know about this DLC's "potential" underwater content. Bethesda is simply too lazy and lacking the creativity these days to make decent underwater animations. Combat or otherwise. There's tons of second rate and lower games with more and better all-around features than Bethesda is building into their games these days. So yeah, I'll say it..... I think "lazy" is a pretty fair assessment. Especially when you're talking about games that cost upward of 50 bucks at release. Replace deathclaws with werewolves, mirelurks with mudcrabs, mirelurk hunters with chaurus, molerats with skeevers, yao guay with wearbears, and BAM! You got SkyOut 4..... tales of the Lawyerborn. All it's missing is an "I'm gonna sue you!!" shout to blow raiders off cliffs and bridges Seriously...... rehashed animations are only a miniscule portion of the regurgitation this game is riddled with. Trykz
Frel Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 Lazy as in removed item condition, limiting dialogue, not allowed to be evil, no karma, no factions, no disguises, no in depth quests with choices, no meaningful story line for the main quest this time around, a bland wasteland that offers only a couple of unique locations and characters in exchange for generic Settler NPCs that you HAVE to babysit as a reference to how you were once a parent so you must now use your skills to tend to the majority of the Commonwealth. Yes lazy indeed in the sense they casualized the Fallout franchise and we will have to rely on Obsidian to make a TRUE RPG once more with all the mature content and gruesome details that made you actually believe it was the real deal of a apocalyptic situation where prude and civilized were extinct. (I still miss the hookers, there's no one squishy except the ghouls now) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Story wise this DLC sounds exactly like the base game; you search for someone and choose a faction to fight for and claim the wasteland as theirs. Not much of that could really be considered laziness though, a lack of proper planning or forethought in some cases; the current realities of being a major public business with multiple franchises in others. When it comes down to it they're trying to make a profit, making a profit in this case would be avoiding the public watchdogs and naysayers from coming down on their heads hard if they released anything too violent or sexualised, and making the game fit a general audience. I don't why they limited dialogue options, and stuff like that, I had some stuff planned that I'll never be able to make until someone clever finds a good way of adding more than four dialogue options to the UI that bypasses the hardcoded creation kit limitations. They could've easily put it in the UI without adding it to the creation kit in the way they did, a lot of the things they've done seem to have no valid justification. I love Fallout 4, but seriously I sometimes wish I could slap whoever made these decisions over the head with a tuna. Well if they were indeed scared of releasing "anything too violent or sexualised" then why this game is populated only by people that want you to kill someone or people that wants to kill you: don't you think it is a little violent ? I had this very strong feeling about it when I first met the Children of Atoms in this game. In Fallout 3 they were religious wackos to which you mostly spoke peacefully: you know like most religion and/or sects. In Fallout 4 ? ... well lets just say that if not for their armor or weapon I would have confused them with regular raiders. And yes I know that the ones in the glowing see are more chill but I cannot remember of any being aggressive in previous game. This fallout game is the first I can think of being pure black/white: people are either with or against you, no neutral stance exist. yes you have the story arc where you have 4 factions but you quickly end up wiping 2 of them. It is in many way a deeply violent game and more so than most previous Fallout that looked at more grey area while giving you the range to deal with situation on alternate (possible more pacific) ways. And the only "good" excuse I can give to that is not "being scared" but just produce quickly a game that will sell based on the reputation of its licence. I am not saying that they did not work on the game: they refined the engine, made some great improvement on the gun mechanics, ... but in term of overall game design and story well it is certainly not heir best work and I hope they will let another studio such as Obsidian try to give us a less lazy RPG while keeping the benefits of this game engine on other playing aspects.
Gameplayer Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 If I take off my glasses maybe the animations are the same.... Bear in mind without my glasses I see like 4 or 5 images...just think drunk vision and ya that's how the world looks... In other words your full of it. Just hating cause that's whats cool. I'd say my likes and dislikes but its like people are writing a thesis or something here.
Trykz Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 Saying that people are "just hating because it's what's cool" is utter nonsense. And it sounds like the last response of someone who simply cannot reasonably deny the obvious. The fact is, even those you think are "hating cuz it's cool" have found things they actually do like about the game. Myself included. It's been 5+ years since Skyrim. Of course they've polished a lot of things up. Animations included. The gun combat animations are really nice and very fluid. Especially for npcs. The way they utilize cover and dodge when you shoot at them is really cool. But...... Why were they reserved for npcs ONLY? Why not add the cover animations for the player as well? Why did a mod on Nexus have to do Bethesda's job for them, to make them available for the player? The trusty old "they ran out of time" excuse doesn't cut it there. If that guy could pull it off without official tools, then surely Bethesda could have added it rather efficiently in a relatively short period of time. They simply didn't...... This isn't about "hating cuz it's cool"...... it's about holding developers accountable to the higher standard they want to be paid for. If we don't hold them accountable, they'll just continue jacking up the costs for fewer and fewer features. Trykz
Aria Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 Is it me or "Fog Crawler" animations are reused from skyrim. Probably, Deathclaws use Werewolf animations after all. So they are serious about turning Murder Hobo Adventures Post-Apocalyptic into Murder Family Member Finder Chronicles Post-Apocalyptic? Bad idea, MHAPA is just so much better than MFMFCPA I KNEW the deathclaw animations look familiar, I just could never figure out where though... NOW I KNOW AND IT CANNOT BE FORGOTTEN Yep its copy/pasted from skyrim, the moment i seen that deathclaw running animation, i knew im looking at a werewolf in deathclaw skin I'm ok with critics, but sometimes you got to be real and not go with the hate train. Just a few comparisons and it's fairly obvious that the animations are far from a simple copy/paste. The werewolf animations in Skyrim were crappy at best. Hell even the claw attack is different. Deathclaws have idle animations, different running animations (crippled, running, walking, zigzag dodge). Here : https://gfycat.com/DirtyUnrulyEgret VS this : Not only it's different, but the level of detail is better. Now laziness ? I do agree to some level : the recycled crappy engine, reused sounds (skyrim Fireball) and surely some other things. But it's usual for any company to reuse existing assets (I don't trully mind for some sounds, I hardly noticed). About the engine they said they didn't find one that could let them do all the things they do with the one they have atm :"taking and moving many many objects in the world etc". I don't know much about programming, but I didn't believe that excuse lol No hate train here, all i said were my impressions on fo4 thats all, i even said i would have bought it if they done some underwater exploration dlc (something new they havent done before) and made that suit useful. Also its obvious the animations are better, but their base comes from skyrim like lots of other assets, add to it the whole rehash of fo3 and now point lookout and you get the picture. DocClox and Trykz hit the nail here. I read a discussion about comic book artists a while back. Someone made the point that as artists get older, some improve their style to make better artwork, while others keep their style about the same but get faster when it comes to making the actual drawings. That's sort of how I feel about Fallout 4; there's a lot of work that's gone into this, but a lot of it seems to be aimed at making it possible to develop games cheaper and faster rather than making a the game more enjoyable for the player. Which would be all right if the game was at least as enjoyable as Fallout 3 or Skyrim. As it is, it looks lazy because (from a purely player perspective) the effort is being misapplied. This isn't about "hating cuz it's cool"...... it's about holding developers accountable to the higher standard they want to be paid for. If we don't hold them accountable, they'll just continue jacking up the costs for fewer and fewer features. Trykz
Kaz Aanh Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 I said Bethesda was being lazy with Skyrim and most didn't want to believe me. Well folks, Fallout 4 is just further proof of the horribly kept secret that THEY'RE FUCKING LAZY. Pfft, "lazy". Sure, some things can be better, and when is that not the case, but to just categorically call them lazy shows just how little you realize how much work has gone into these games. No, they're not lazy because obviously yes, they've put a lot of development into their games. Open world games, which do take up a lot of time. I can imaine a dungeon alone could take a month or more to have everything working properly from clutter to scripts leading those trigger events from main quest or side quests. I'm not too bothered by recycle animations as long as it works. In a sense if it does work, it saves them time and money. But if it is thrown in there for the sake of saving time and money and it turns out to be clunky, then yes, I would say that is laziness. I wouldn't have guessed the deathclaw uses the werewolf animation because I don't very much care playing as a warewolf in Skyrim and I don't play Fallout 4 to really pay attention to it. Only effort was done by the level/map designers. Its beautiful to look at, amazing environmental storytelling, there is no single rushed area. Rest of the stuff simply sucks and is lazy, especially settlement system, quests , writing, rpg elements., repeating the same formula over and over, null innovation.
Darkening Demise Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 12 more days for a cheaper base game, yay. Lord I hope there's actually something to do in this wasteland compared to the nothingness of the base game since the story is just pretty much a copy and paste of the base game's.
crusher Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 I like spending money on DLCs; yes, I'm a DLC addict. (like using an invisible hand to encourage creativity)
Kargrin Posted May 7, 2016 Posted May 7, 2016 Open at your own discretion: God, how horrifying. Dlc size its around 3.5 gb, some neat armors, unique weapons with unique visuals, and an old guy companion. Also Rad Chickens !
youngfool Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 I honestly wouldn't throw the 'lazy' cap on Bethesda because they have clearly conducted their market search well. I mean their main target audience - the Z generation has too many distractions and too little attention spans to appreciate complexed RPGs of the old days. They have been exposed to games with stripped and simplistic concepts like league of legends, hearthstone and COD, most are pressured to play triple A shooters just so they could be swag and talk about it with their peers and quickly move on. I remember in my most glorious roleplaying days I could roleplay as a bus driver in gta vice city for hours long after I clock the game, I was somewhat astonished when two of my pupils told me none of them nor their schoolmates has finished GTA 5, as they were mostly occupated by multiplayer. Look at the steam global achievement for GTA, only 23% of all players received the achievement for the final story mission (To live or die in Los Santos), assuming this statistic represents an average measure across all platforms, which most likely is. Thus it is rationally logical for Bethesda to strip their games and focus on the FPS elements of it, because this is what the market wants, just the invisible hand stroking its job. Lets face it, hardcore RPG lovers is a dying breed.
Veniat Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 I honestly wouldn't throw the 'lazy' cap on Bethesda because they have clearly conducted their market search well. I mean their main target audience - the Z generation has too many distractions and too little attention spans to appreciate complexed RPGs of the old days. They have been exposed to games with stripped and simplistic concepts like league of legends, hearthstone and COD, most are pressured to play triple A shooters just so they could be swag and talk about it with their peers and quickly move on. I remember in my most glorious roleplaying days I could roleplay as a bus driver in gta vice city for hours long after I clock the game, I was somewhat astonished when two of my pupils told me none of them nor their schoolmates has finished GTA 5, as they were mostly occupated by multiplayer. Look at the steam global achievement for GTA, only 23% of all players received the achievement for the final story mission (To live or die in Los Santos), assuming this statistic represents an average measure across all platforms, which most likely is. Thus it is rationally logical for Bethesda to strip their games and focus on the FPS elements of it, because this is what the market wants, just the invisible hand stroking its job. Lets face it, hardcore RPG lovers is a dying breed. I wouldn't call Bethesda's target audience people from Gen Z, not that generation has anything to do with it. From memory the main demographic for RPGs like Fallout 4 are in Gen X and Y. I can't remember the statistics from memory but most gamers are millennials now, yeah? So it wouldn't be from just one generation.
Advint Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 I honestly wouldn't throw the 'lazy' cap on Bethesda because they have clearly conducted their market search well. I mean their main target audience - the Z generation has too many distractions and too little attention spans to appreciate complexed RPGs of the old days. They have been exposed to games with stripped and simplistic concepts like league of legends, hearthstone and COD, most are pressured to play triple A shooters just so they could be swag and talk about it with their peers and quickly move on. I remember in my most glorious roleplaying days I could roleplay as a bus driver in gta vice city for hours long after I clock the game, I was somewhat astonished when two of my pupils told me none of them nor their schoolmates has finished GTA 5, as they were mostly occupated by multiplayer. Look at the steam global achievement for GTA, only 23% of all players received the achievement for the final story mission (To live or die in Los Santos), assuming this statistic represents an average measure across all platforms, which most likely is. Thus it is rationally logical for Bethesda to strip their games and focus on the FPS elements of it, because this is what the market wants, just the invisible hand stroking its job. Lets face it, hardcore RPG lovers is a dying breed. Personally I still have yet to beat Fallout 4's main story line. Mainly due to lack of interest in the actual story. But I understand what your saying here; seems like quite a few people these days don't buy or don't finish long complex games.
Zor2k13 Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 I remember playing those RPG games on the ps2 back in the early 2000's and earlier stuff too. Dragoon something it was four discs and kind of lame but not really meh... got bored with it half way through because of all the kiddy graphics. Played all the resident evil stuff in the late 90's longer than anything else. The old school rpg games are boring and they all look exactly the same just slightly different hairstyles. There was some cool but incredibly frustrating stuff on the original NES like blaster master or golgo 13 top secret episode etc. Mass effect would have worked out well had they just thought it through better and it would have drawn much more people to EA had ME3 been what it was supposed to be. I want to try fallout 4 again after far harbor comes out but honestly the game is just not interesting, I know that when I play it again all those dam settlements will still be there for me to babysit over and over again. Thanks to the cell reset bug we can't enjoy settlement mods that fix a lot of things and we can't make mods yet that allow for things like already build but disabled settlements that once activated would build themselves so they player doesn't have to keep coming back for radiant shit over and over. If you take all the radiant shit out of this game it would only provide about five hours of gameplay for the main story and and maybe twenty hours for the factions stories. So instead of shooting your way through another call of dookie in five hours you do it in 25 to 30? So now with these new dlcs like automatron and far harbor that time extends but still there is only so much to do and after that it is repetitive and boring just like skyrim just like oblivion etc. All we can really do is pace ourselves with immersion to slow things down and try and enjoy the game longer but after going through it a few times whats the point anymore? Games are getting boring because limits have been reached, budgets are in the 100 million range and higher and writing always takes a back seat to everything else. They can't do anything interesting anymore it will probably require much higher budgets like 200 million and more time too. They don't want to invest that time and money they just want to get paid fast like everyone else.
billypnats Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 Open at your own discretion: God, how horrifying. Dlc size its around 3.5 gb, some neat armors, unique weapons with unique visuals, and an old guy companion. Also Rad Chickens ! Lol dat crotch cup
Darkening Demise Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 Casualized for COD kiddies and appealing towards the Graphic Whore Generation of gamers. That's all Failout 4 is; a dumbed down piece of shit. ------------------------ Its just a another Point Lookout FO3PL FOFH Arrive by boat Arrive by boat Search for a woman Search for a woman Get caught in a tribe of religious nut cases Get caught in a tribe of religious nut cases All connected to a feud between two different groups All connected to a feud between two different groups I can't see why buying this unless you're a fanboy makes it worthy of the asking price yet. Just Point Lookout 2.0 with some expansion to the wasteland size apparently. Also with only some old fart follower? Tch, at least there's a old fashion scuba suit; modders will finish the rest as usual for BGS who should be working for Electronic Arts. What's next, Fallout 4 Mothership Zeta 2.0? It will be the same thing with a bit of a environment size expansion. XD
Aria Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 I honestly wouldn't throw the 'lazy' cap on Bethesda because they have clearly conducted their market search well. I mean their main target audience - the Z generation has too many distractions and too little attention spans to appreciate complexed RPGs of the old days. They have been exposed to games with stripped and simplistic concepts like league of legends, hearthstone and COD, most are pressured to play triple A shooters just so they could be swag and talk about it with their peers and quickly move on. I remember in my most glorious roleplaying days I could roleplay as a bus driver in gta vice city for hours long after I clock the game, I was somewhat astonished when two of my pupils told me none of them nor their schoolmates has finished GTA 5, as they were mostly occupated by multiplayer. Look at the steam global achievement for GTA, only 23% of all players received the achievement for the final story mission (To live or die in Los Santos), assuming this statistic represents an average measure across all platforms, which most likely is. Thus it is rationally logical for Bethesda to strip their games and focus on the FPS elements of it, because this is what the market wants, just the invisible hand stroking its job. Lets face it, hardcore RPG lovers is a dying breed. Most people nowadays dont really have the time to play long rpg's cuz of busy real life and kids dont have the attention span nor wil to play them as we had, when we were in their years and games were just becoming a thing IMO. Thats who Bethesda probably targets now, the busy people and short attention span kids who just wanna have some fun and kill something without having to think much and in that regard they are successful without a doubt.
oniric1 Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 point lookout was my favorite dlc for fallout 3 and is was dead money for new vegas. Far harbor remind me pretty good time in f3. For this, i m happy
bjornk Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 From memory the main demographic for RPGs like Fallout 4 are in Gen XSo a large number of 40-50 year old folk play Fallout 4 huh? The youngest Gen X is about 40 year old now.
DocClox Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 From memory the main demographic for RPGs like Fallout 4 are in Gen XSo a large number of 40-50 year old folk play Fallout 4 huh? The youngest Gen X is about 40 year old now. Hence, presumably why they had a thirty-something protagonist, married with child for this outing. Trying to appeal to the proud mums and dads out there.
bjornk Posted May 8, 2016 Posted May 8, 2016 Doubt it. Gen X may be the first generation of "gamers" but not all of them grew up with video games. I am one and for a lot of my friends video games have never been a thing. Pretty sure majority of them don't play games at all. Although keep in mind that Todd, Pete and possibly other lead devs are Gen X. In other words, not made for them, but made by them.
Zor2k13 Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 Making and selling games during the computer fads of the 90s is one thing and it all fit together then but now things are very different. Hardware is slowing down significantly in many areas and the economy sucks world wide. Making money with games requires huge investments before any kind of a payoff. The games industry is looking like hollywood these days and that ain't a good thing. All that middle man crap is just bloating up and eating the budget of most games.
Veniat Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 From memory the main demographic for RPGs like Fallout 4 are in Gen XSo a large number of 40-50 year old folk play Fallout 4 huh? The youngest Gen X is about 40 year old now. I think you forgot the 'and Gen Y' part of that sentence; though I was only repeating what I remember reading from a poll on video gaming habits.
bjornk Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 Gen X part didn't make much sense, that's why I quoted that part only.
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