Things in the Dark

[bicobus]

13 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It might be because the space characters in the dialog aren't really space characters...

 

There is an ini file for Fuz in the SKSE folder, and you can tweak how fast it goes there. If slowing it doesn't fix those problem lines, it's because of "fake" spaces that Fuz can't recognize, so it counts the words in the dialog wrong and allows insufficient time.

Shouldn't fuz increase the time rather than diminish it then?

 

3 hours ago, Delzaron said:

Anyway, I'm trying to rebuilt the city... and I'll also need to rebuild the prologue!

To be honest, your dialogues should be your primary focus. If writing in base english is a bit too hard, try to start with french first. The prologue can simply be a rumour too, which adds a quest "investigate rumour of disappearances near X" and triggers the player's character own disappearance. Don't think too hard about it  

[Damoriva]

14 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It might be because the space characters in the dialog aren't really space characters...

 

There is an ini file for Fuz in the SKSE folder, and you can tweak how fast it goes there. If slowing it doesn't fix those problem lines, it's because of "fake" spaces that Fuz can't recognize, so it counts the words in the dialog wrong and allows insufficient time.

 

4 hours ago, Delzaron said:

Fake spaces ?

I don't understand... I use the "space" button to make spaces...

There's some weird quirk going on. I'm actually starting to see the occasional line in conversations zip past. Not all of them, but I have had to go into the CK to find out what the hell someone just said. Increasing the time in the INI file did nothing either.

4 hours ago, Delzaron said:

- an artifact research

- an archeologic research.

Honestly, these two could just be the same thing. Make Frabbi the researcher who hires the player to watch her back while she's on an archaeological trek to find a rumoured Dwemer/Snow Elf artifact, gotta deal with 'typical' Falmer along the way, and you stumble into a Pure Falmer trap and get captured.

 

[Delzaron]

7 hours ago, Damoriva said:

 

There's some weird quirk going on. I'm actually starting to see the occasional line in conversations zip past. Not all of them, but I have had to go into the CK to find out what the hell someone just said. Increasing the time in the INI file did nothing either.

Honestly, these two could just be the same thing. Make Frabbi the researcher who hires the player to watch her back while she's on an archaeological trek to find a rumoured Dwemer/Snow Elf artifact, gotta deal with 'typical' Falmer along the way, and you stumble into a Pure Falmer trap and get captured.

 

Ok, Let's go for research prologue ? Frabbi no longer mercenary, but archeologist ?

[Lupine00]

If you make Frabbi an archaeologist, you have to rethink pretty much everything she ever says, because her entire experience will be seen from a different point of view.

For example, she'll see the city as a living museum.

Then there's the question of her speciality... Dwemer? Falmer? Falmer writing? Snow Elves (pre Nord invasion), etc.

 

It would be possible to tie this into the vanilla Thieves Guild questline, where you have to decode Falmer writing.

 

Doing that step in the vanilla quest could be tied into yours, with knowledge of their text also revealing something that means that the Neo Tegothian Falmer make silecning Frabbi and the PC an urgent priority, to stop a secret getting out. It could be something written in plain sight, but unreadable, until now. Something that reveals the secret way to a hidden city...

[shinji72]

What's wrong with the murder/mystery prologue?
I think the archeology research is a good idea per se, but why redoing everything from scratch. The prologue may need some polishing. I you completely redo it, I doubt the end result will be more polished than now.
I'm also very found of some scenes like the

Spoiler

the brief ghostly apparition

.

My suggestion would be to streamlining some part of the initial quest. One thing I don't like it's the fact that is very disperse around Skyrim. 

If at the end of the quest the entrance to the city is outside

Spoiler

Markarth

 

I would focus all previous encounters and happening around that area. It would give a sense there is something going on in that specific location. A sense of getting physically closer and closer to the target of the investigation.

 

[Fuzzy_Fox]

If Frabbi was switched from being a mercenary to investigator there wouldn't need to be much of a change in the way she operates, just some dialogue would need to be changed to fit the new role.

 

So you get a rumour from the tavern keeper or citizen which points to Frabbi. She then says she needs help because her last assistant went missing.

The player retraces the last assistant steps and finds the falmer assassin on the bridge to Windhelm.

At this point you could have a fade to black scene for the player and they end up in Ibn due to being bushwhacked by the falmer agent.

 

This opening does away with the traveling npcs and the trip to Markarth which seemed disjointed in the quest.

 

Inside the slave quarters you could possibly find Frabbi's last assistant dead or bat shit insane due to the horrors he/she has been subjected to. Leaving the player and Frabbi on their own.

[EinarrTheRed]

I like Fox's general idea.  Could be fleshed out more to create more of a prologue and of course I'd like more options for different play styles eventually.  But yeah, the core idea works.

 

I had always wondered why if the player was knocked unconscious in the first fight at the butchery, why they weren't captured then, why did they only take Frabbi.  If you want to support play thru this would be a good point at which to split the quest line.  If the player goes with Frabbi to investigate whatever it is (a strange symbol, the butchery, a dwemer ruin, etc.) then they get captured and the story continues on the 'player-slave' route.  But, there could be a choice worked into the story line so that instead of investigating that with Frabbi, the player investigates some other clue or something, in which case only Frabbi gets captured and this starts the 'player-rescue' quest line (leading to the player finding another way to Ibn and either rescuing Frabbi or joining the Falmer).  If you plan for it that way, you could the player-slave quest line first and then add in the second quest line later.

 

Also like the idea of the assistant being found pretty much mind broken / extremely terrified.  I think adding in more of a horror element would fit well with the mod overall.  Life for a meat slave must be pretty grim and terrifying; being forced to do menial labor, milked, bred to chaurus, etc and knowing that ultimately after all that still ending up 'filet of meat slave' or chaurus chow (possibly while still alive).  That would seriously mess with anyone mentally.  Maybe there's a chance if the meat slave is  "entertaining" enough or useful enough they might get "promoted" to being a personal slave or something so despite their likely grim fate they try hard to please their masters in the hopes of being spared a grim fate.

 

 

[Lupine00]

9 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Life for a meat slave must be pretty grim and terrifying; being forced to do menial labor, milked, bred to chaurus, etc and knowing that ultimately after all that still ending up 'filet of meat slave' or chaurus chow (possibly while still alive).

This was where the dialogue in the city fails to match the situation. Lots of people provide background that is supposed to horrify, but they all seem pretty laid back about their situation. Nobody proposes resistance, escape, or even makes a simple plea for help of any kind. We're told that some slave leaders are worse than others, yet this isn't really backed up by events.

 

The introduction to possible "falmerisation" is provided too early, telegraphing almost immediately that this possibility exists, and that many "falmers" are not falmers, but ex-something-else.

 

That said, in the early slavery my concern was entirely that I was going to die of thirst because you can't get fed until you talk to Frabbi, and Frabbi disappears off to an area where she can be extremely hard to locate, and which is hard to find a path to that doesn't get you killed for trying to escape. I had to explore pretty much the entire city before I managed to find a way to Frabbi, and as all her dialogue is "introductory" it's quite redundant when you get to meet her. I actually couldn't see why I had to talk to her, it was like many other parts of the TitD questlines: a forced dialogue that seems to serve no purpose other than making you walk a long way, and that delivers an anticlimax.

 

Only when you find Frabbi does she suggest that the skewered bodies or red lights hint at no-go areas, by which time it's far too late. In any case, those signals are used unclearly, and inconsistently, so the player really has no idea when they're going to enter in an instant-death, no surrender area. You learn only by dying, and so you quickly become used to load and retry.

 

What's particularly silly, is that you take one step in a forbidden area, and all the falmer go aggro on you, and there's no way to surrender or be captured, you just get killed. It would make far more sense that they beat you unconscious and you get returned to the slave quarters, and then get a punishment. Whether that's more realistic or not (and you can argue) it doesn't matter, because it's just better game-play, and ultimately more horrible. Punishments last, getting killed is just a reload. Why is it they feel a need to fill a defenceless, naked slave with arrows, when they cross some invisible line? Why don't they just have a gate or something?

 

[Lupine00]

When I said archaeologist Frabbi needs a complete rethink, I mean from a dialogue perspective. What locations you go to, or what fights you have are immaterial, but Frabbi's character needs to be consistent and believable. Archaeologists have different interests, perspectives and priorities to bandits. There's this little thing called "characterisation" and if you don't do it, you get a boring mechanism that seems like the obvious contrivance that it is.

 

Plot notes below, hidden for spoilers, though it's mostly pointless as you have to read how the entire thing works to do the hacks to make it play through, as is.

Spoiler

 

It's a Cthulhu genre thing that you have to travel the world to track down the cultists, so I'm fine with bouncing from Windhelm to Markarth, but the gratuitous back and forth with that seems overdoing it. I think at the point you get to the farm house, it should conclude then and there, and not bounce you back to Windhelm again, as you can see really clearly what is going on, and it just makes no sense to return to Windhelm at that point.

 

It would probably flow better if Frabbi went to the butcher's by herself, and never returned, then you find a note from her saying where she went, or get a message she left with the innkeeper, or in any one of several places, or even a courier.  You then go to the butchery to investigate by yourself, and have the big fight, and win, but get a clue about the farm.

 

The device with the potion is irritating, especially because the player isn't offered the choice not to drink it - and there's a completely arbitrary delay between being given the potion and arriving at the farm - it could be darys, or weeks. Please get rid of it; it isn't even necessary.

 

You should go to Markarth, ask around, get information in the warrens that the farm people seem innocent but are very scary.

You then head to the farm, for the first time, and speak with the inhabitants, who stonewall and won't tell you anything.

 

Afterwards, you leave, and when you next sleep, you're woken by attackers ... exposition plays ... black screen ... people speaking but you can't see them because it's dark ... and you awake again in the city.

 

 

[EinarrTheRed]

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

This was where the dialogue in the city fails to match the situation. Lots of people provide background that is supposed to horrify, but they all seem pretty laid back about their situation. Nobody proposes resistance, escape, or even makes a simple plea for help of any kind. We're told that some slave leaders are worse than others, yet this isn't really backed up by events.

 

Agreed.  Better thought out dialog would help.  Maybe some "random" scenes or events of slaves being beaten, tortured, etc. would help.  For the player, not knowing if the next time you enter a building or turn a corner there's going to be a scene of some other slave getting the crap beaten out of them or something would add some suspense.  Might even happen to a slave-player.  Maybe some NPCs are more likely to torture than others, have a reputation for sadism, so players learn to avoid them as much as possible.  There's a lot that could be done here, need to ponder some ideas and write them up.

 

For players who like playing as a slave, maybe even a chance to be sold at auction scene complete with bids.  Bids get based on past player actions, so if they've been a "desirable" slave they go for a higher price.  Could even use slave tats to brand them with their sale price.  Not my thing, but I suspect some who really get into playing a slave might enjoy that.

 

Quote

Only when you find Frabbi does she suggest that the skewered bodies or red lights hint at no-go areas, by which time it's far too late. In any case, those signals are used unclearly, and inconsistently, so the player really has no idea when they're going to enter in an instant-death, no surrender area. You learn only by dying, and so you quickly become used to load and retry.

 

What's particularly silly, is that you take one step in a forbidden area, and all the falmer go aggro on you, and there's no way to surrender or be captured, you just get killed. It would make far more sense that they beat you unconscious and you get returned to the slave quarters, and then get a punishment. Whether that's more realistic or not (and you can argue) it doesn't matter, because it's just better game-play, and ultimately more horrible. Punishments last, getting killed is just a reload. Why is it they feel a need to fill a defenceless, naked slave with arrows, when they cross some invisible line? Why don't they just have a gate or something?

Yeah I had the same problem, I wondered why Frabbi was way out there by herself in the first place, much less why you had to wander around to find her like that.  Maybe for that bit of info a scene where a slave "overseer" takes the player along with a few other new slaves and shows them the markers and also maybe a slave being executed for going beyond them, make the execution gruesome.  Or, to really ratchet up the horror, have one of the slaves in the new group make a break for it and run off.  The overseer remains calm, tells the slaves this will be a good example and the player and remaining slave watch as hidden falmer, spiders, etc. capture the runaway who is hauled back and then gruesomely executed.  The lesson being as bad as being a slave may be, running away will result in a much more painful slow death.

 

Alternatively, a slave who tries to run away gets captured and demoted to "meat slave".  So if you've worked your way up the "slave ranks" a bit and then get in trouble, try to run away, etc.  The slave gets demoted back to "meat slave" and has to try an work their way back up again.  This could be a good option for player-slaves, avoids the insta-death thing but as a meat slave they're in danger of becoming chaurus chow, get all the shit jobs, etc. until they regain enough favor to be promoted to "ordinary slave" or whatever it would be called.

 

Another thought I had about Frabbi, maybe her fate is more variable.  In the current "story" she ends up being a potential follower, but that need not be the case.  What if Frabbi gets involved in something, maybe an escape plot or something.  You could choose to help her (player and Frabbi escape, end adventure assuming they succeed), talk Frabbi out of it which leads to Frabbi maybe ending up a little better off and the player gains rank for loyalty (and the other would be escapee's come to a bad end), or betray Frabbi and she ends up a meat slave.  But even as a meat slave, that might not be the end of Frabbi.  Maybe if the player goes the full falmer or symbiot route then once they gain enough rank they could have the option to buy Frabbi as a slave.  The player could then keep her as a slave, maker her a servant, etc.  It adds some variables so players could experiment with different choices each time they play thru the mod, and that extends replay value for the mod.

 

The running back and forth in this and Up From the Deep does get to be immersion breaking.  Why go on some long overland trip to talk to someone for just 3 lines of dialog and then be sent right back where you came from?  So yeah, its not that long journeys are bad... but if you send the player somewhere, have them stay there for a bit doing several things so that it seems like there was a real purpose in going there.

 

[Delzaron]

On 13/04/2018 at 2:46 PM, shinji72 said:

What's wrong with the murder/mystery prologue?
I think the archeology research is a good idea per se, but why redoing everything from scratch. The prologue may need some polishing. I you completely redo it, I doubt the end result will be more polished than now.
I'm also very found of some scenes like the

  Reveal hidden contents

the brief ghostly apparition

.

My suggestion would be to streamlining some part of the initial quest. One thing I don't like it's the fact that is very disperse around Skyrim. 

If at the end of the quest the entrance to the city is outside

  Reveal hidden contents

Markarth

 

I would focus all previous encounters and happening around that area. It would give a sense there is something going on in that specific location. A sense of getting physically closer and closer to the target of the investigation.

 

 

On 13/04/2018 at 6:22 PM, Fuzzy_Fox said:

If Frabbi was switched from being a mercenary to investigator there wouldn't need to be much of a change in the way she operates, just some dialogue would need to be changed to fit the new role.

 

So you get a rumour from the tavern keeper or citizen which points to Frabbi. She then says she needs help because her last assistant went missing.

The player retraces the last assistant steps and finds the falmer assassin on the bridge to Windhelm.

At this point you could have a fade to black scene for the player and they end up in Ibn due to being bushwhacked by the falmer agent.

 

This opening does away with the traveling npcs and the trip to Markarth which seemed disjointed in the quest.

 

Inside the slave quarters you could possibly find Frabbi's last assistant dead or bat shit insane due to the horrors he/she has been subjected to. Leaving the player and Frabbi on their own.

 

19 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

I like Fox's general idea.  Could be fleshed out more to create more of a prologue and of course I'd like more options for different play styles eventually.  But yeah, the core idea works.

 

I had always wondered why if the player was knocked unconscious in the first fight at the butchery, why they weren't captured then, why did they only take Frabbi.  If you want to support play thru this would be a good point at which to split the quest line.  If the player goes with Frabbi to investigate whatever it is (a strange symbol, the butchery, a dwemer ruin, etc.) then they get captured and the story continues on the 'player-slave' route.  But, there could be a choice worked into the story line so that instead of investigating that with Frabbi, the player investigates some other clue or something, in which case only Frabbi gets captured and this starts the 'player-rescue' quest line (leading to the player finding another way to Ibn and either rescuing Frabbi or joining the Falmer).  If you plan for it that way, you could the player-slave quest line first and then add in the second quest line later.

 

Also like the idea of the assistant being found pretty much mind broken / extremely terrified.  I think adding in more of a horror element would fit well with the mod overall.  Life for a meat slave must be pretty grim and terrifying; being forced to do menial labor, milked, bred to chaurus, etc and knowing that ultimately after all that still ending up 'filet of meat slave' or chaurus chow (possibly while still alive).  That would seriously mess with anyone mentally.  Maybe there's a chance if the meat slave is  "entertaining" enough or useful enough they might get "promoted" to being a personal slave or something so despite their likely grim fate they try hard to please their masters in the hopes of being spared a grim fate.

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

This was where the dialogue in the city fails to match the situation. Lots of people provide background that is supposed to horrify, but they all seem pretty laid back about their situation. Nobody proposes resistance, escape, or even makes a simple plea for help of any kind. We're told that some slave leaders are worse than others, yet this isn't really backed up by events.

 

The introduction to possible "falmerisation" is provided too early, telegraphing almost immediately that this possibility exists, and that many "falmers" are not falmers, but ex-something-else.

 

That said, in the early slavery my concern was entirely that I was going to die of thirst because you can't get fed until you talk to Frabbi, and Frabbi disappears off to an area where she can be extremely hard to locate, and which is hard to find a path to that doesn't get you killed for trying to escape. I had to explore pretty much the entire city before I managed to find a way to Frabbi, and as all her dialogue is "introductory" it's quite redundant when you get to meet her. I actually couldn't see why I had to talk to her, it was like many other parts of the TitD questlines: a forced dialogue that seems to serve no purpose other than making you walk a long way, and that delivers an anticlimax.

 

Only when you find Frabbi does she suggest that the skewered bodies or red lights hint at no-go areas, by which time it's far too late. In any case, those signals are used unclearly, and inconsistently, so the player really has no idea when they're going to enter in an instant-death, no surrender area. You learn only by dying, and so you quickly become used to load and retry.

 

What's particularly silly, is that you take one step in a forbidden area, and all the falmer go aggro on you, and there's no way to surrender or be captured, you just get killed. It would make far more sense that they beat you unconscious and you get returned to the slave quarters, and then get a punishment. Whether that's more realistic or not (and you can argue) it doesn't matter, because it's just better game-play, and ultimately more horrible. Punishments last, getting killed is just a reload. Why is it they feel a need to fill a defenceless, naked slave with arrows, when they cross some invisible line? Why don't they just have a gate or something?

 

 

12 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

When I said archaeologist Frabbi needs a complete rethink, I mean from a dialogue perspective. What locations you go to, or what fights you have are immaterial, but Frabbi's character needs to be consistent and believable. Archaeologists have different interests, perspectives and priorities to bandits. There's this little thing called "characterisation" and if you don't do it, you get a boring mechanism that seems like the obvious contrivance that it is.

 

Plot notes below, hidden for spoilers, though it's mostly pointless as you have to read how the entire thing works to do the hacks to make it play through, as is.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

It's a Cthulhu genre thing that you have to travel the world to track down the cultists, so I'm fine with bouncing from Windhelm to Markarth, but the gratuitous back and forth with that seems overdoing it. I think at the point you get to the farm house, it should conclude then and there, and not bounce you back to Windhelm again, as you can see really clearly what is going on, and it just makes no sense to return to Windhelm at that point.

 

It would probably flow better if Frabbi went to the butcher's by herself, and never returned, then you find a note from her saying where she went, or get a message she left with the innkeeper, or in any one of several places, or even a courier.  You then go to the butchery to investigate by yourself, and have the big fight, and win, but get a clue about the farm.

 

The device with the potion is irritating, especially because the player isn't offered the choice not to drink it - and there's a completely arbitrary delay between being given the potion and arriving at the farm - it could be darys, or weeks. Please get rid of it; it isn't even necessary.

 

You should go to Markarth, ask around, get information in the warrens that the farm people seem innocent but are very scary.

You then head to the farm, for the first time, and speak with the inhabitants, who stonewall and won't tell you anything.

 

Afterwards, you leave, and when you next sleep, you're woken by attackers ... exposition plays ... black screen ... people speaking but you can't see them because it's dark ... and you awake again in the city.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, EinarrTheRed said:

Agreed.  Better thought out dialog would help.  Maybe some "random" scenes or events of slaves being beaten, tortured, etc. would help.  For the player, not knowing if the next time you enter a building or turn a corner there's going to be a scene of some other slave getting the crap beaten out of them or something would add some suspense.  Might even happen to a slave-player.  Maybe some NPCs are more likely to torture than others, have a reputation for sadism, so players learn to avoid them as much as possible.  There's a lot that could be done here, need to ponder some ideas and write them up.

 

For players who like playing as a slave, maybe even a chance to be sold at auction scene complete with bids.  Bids get based on past player actions, so if they've been a "desirable" slave they go for a higher price.  Could even use slave tats to brand them with their sale price.  Not my thing, but I suspect some who really get into playing a slave might enjoy that.

 

Yeah I had the same problem, I wondered why Frabbi was way out there by herself in the first place, much less why you had to wander around to find her like that.  Maybe for that bit of info a scene where a slave "overseer" takes the player along with a few other new slaves and shows them the markers and also maybe a slave being executed for going beyond them, make the execution gruesome.  Or, to really ratchet up the horror, have one of the slaves in the new group make a break for it and run off.  The overseer remains calm, tells the slaves this will be a good example and the player and remaining slave watch as hidden falmer, spiders, etc. capture the runaway who is hauled back and then gruesomely executed.  The lesson being as bad as being a slave may be, running away will result in a much more painful slow death.

 

Alternatively, a slave who tries to run away gets captured and demoted to "meat slave".  So if you've worked your way up the "slave ranks" a bit and then get in trouble, try to run away, etc.  The slave gets demoted back to "meat slave" and has to try an work their way back up again.  This could be a good option for player-slaves, avoids the insta-death thing but as a meat slave they're in danger of becoming chaurus chow, get all the shit jobs, etc. until they regain enough favor to be promoted to "ordinary slave" or whatever it would be called.

 

Another thought I had about Frabbi, maybe her fate is more variable.  In the current "story" she ends up being a potential follower, but that need not be the case.  What if Frabbi gets involved in something, maybe an escape plot or something.  You could choose to help her (player and Frabbi escape, end adventure assuming they succeed), talk Frabbi out of it which leads to Frabbi maybe ending up a little better off and the player gains rank for loyalty (and the other would be escapee's come to a bad end), or betray Frabbi and she ends up a meat slave.  But even as a meat slave, that might not be the end of Frabbi.  Maybe if the player goes the full falmer or symbiot route then once they gain enough rank they could have the option to buy Frabbi as a slave.  The player could then keep her as a slave, maker her a servant, etc.  It adds some variables so players could experiment with different choices each time they play thru the mod, and that extends replay value for the mod.

 

The running back and forth in this and Up From the Deep does get to be immersion breaking.  Why go on some long overland trip to talk to someone for just 3 lines of dialog and then be sent right back where you came from?  So yeah, its not that long journeys are bad... but if you send the player somewhere, have them stay there for a bit doing several things so that it seems like there was a real purpose in going there.

 

 

That's just hypothesis :

 

I'm rebuilding the entire city and small world..; so it's a good opportunity to rework the mod.

 

The actual prologue is a criminal case, similar to "blood on ice" quest. I wish to change it and make something "more lovecraftian".

 

The mod stroy will also be rewrited in several acts, like something like this :

0 : prologue

1 : player as slave

2 : player a "better" slave, help to establish the cult.

3 : player as servant, secure Ibn cave.

4 : build the empire

5 : free the god.

 

 

 

[Fuzzy_Fox]

6 hours ago, Delzaron said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's just hypothesis :

 

I'm rebuilding the entire city and small world..; so it's a good opportunity to rework the mod.

 

The actual prologue is a criminal case, similar to "blood on ice" quest. I wish to change it and make something "more lovecraftian".

 

The mod stroy will also be rewrited in several acts, like something like this :

0 : prologue

1 : player as slave

2 : player a "better" slave, help to establish the cult.

3 : player as servant, secure Ibn cave.

4 : build the empire

5 : free the god.

 

 

 

What if the prologue (if you wish for Lovecratian design) to start with a rumour of an abandoned house that people say they can hear moans and screams from. This house would have to be a new location to stop conflicts with other mods.

 

Inside the player finds Frabbi cocooned up much like you see in Alien films. She was the last person to investigate but before the player can free her she dies of a strange poison in her blood. This then sets the player off looking for an alchemist who can help with determining where the poison came from. This start would cut out a lot of the starting quest as it stands now with fewer steps to complete, and at the same time offer up a more Giger/Lovecraft start to the quest.

 

The horror of seeing a person trapped in a cocoon of Chaurus eggs, slime and chitin. To only release her and then have her die of a strange poison that caused her to drown in her own body fluids. Better burn the house Dovahkin just to be sure.

 

Without notes or a journal, just a bottle of strange fluid from Frabbi (poison you perverts, I mean poison :D) as the only clue. Sometimes having little to no information can create the suspense in horror as much as the big bad.

 

 

[Delzaron]

9 hours ago, Fuzzy_Fox said:

What if the prologue (if you wish for Lovecratian design) to start with a rumour of an abandoned house that people say they can hear moans and screams from. This house would have to be a new location to stop conflicts with other mods.

 

Inside the player finds Frabbi cocooned up much like you see in Alien films. She was the last person to investigate but before the player can free her she dies of a strange poison in her blood. This then sets the player off looking for an alchemist who can help with determining where the poison came from. This start would cut out a lot of the starting quest as it stands now with fewer steps to complete, and at the same time offer up a more Giger/Lovecraft start to the quest.

 

The horror of seeing a person trapped in a cocoon of Chaurus eggs, slime and chitin. To only release her and then have her die of a strange poison that caused her to drown in her own body fluids. Better burn the house Dovahkin just to be sure.

 

Without notes or a journal, just a bottle of strange fluid from Frabbi (poison you perverts, I mean poison :D) as the only clue. Sometimes having little to no information can create the suspense in horror as much as the big bad.

 

 

Hum... and how you and frabbi are caught by Azenith ?

[Fuzzy_Fox]

2 hours ago, Delzaron said:

Hum... and how you and frabbi are caught by Azenith ?

To be honest I found Frabbi to be a minor npc in the original story line. She is used maybe once in a major way during the prologue, every other time could be filled with a npc slave that is already in Ibn.

 

Maybe this is because i had to set stage a lot and coc via console commands though.

 

As for the abduction of the Player this can still be done just without Frabbi.

[sinfulpetgirlrd1993]

On 4/10/2018 at 5:14 AM, Lupine00 said:

It's a shared experience. TitD sounds great, and it starts up, and you think...

 

"Hmm, the dialog is a bit incomprehensible, but I'm sure it'll be ok, I can get the gist of it, mostly."

 

... and then you hit a broken quest, and you think, OK, one busted quest, no problems ...

 

And a few more broken quests later you think, "Maybe this isn't really playable as is. Testable sure, playable, no."

 

So near. And yet so far.

I'm noticing that aha I hope this gets fixed soon as I think my sex slave character would have a load of fun with a mod like this. just gunna have to keep my eye on the mod 

[Lupine00]

Quests where you have to question everyone in <some area> at random, hoping for a lead can end up being tedious.

Far too many people write such quests where there is ONE person who can answer you, and they only do so after some secret condition is met.

Sometimes you might talk to that person, get nothing, then cross them off your list. You eventually conclude the quest is broken.

Other times, the single NPC is hiding in bed, or dead, or invisible due to a bug, or otherwise not showing up to be questioned.

The worst is where they don't tell you the location and give a misleading or sloppily constructed clue to it, so you go to the wrong place.

Even when a mod doesn't fall into this trap, if it has a quest that seems like it might, the player often gives up easily,  used to broken quests like this.

 

It's a fragile design pattern, with a bad reputation, so hopefully it can be avoided in any future TitD.

[MetZwerg]

i sorta run into a problem ...

i got the task to assist as a test oject for breeding in the mutator, "Slave Task - Mutators Test Subject"...

so when i go to the specified  pure-falmer and talk to her, she leads me to a falmer "cell" lets the  nearby falmer mount my char and tells me to get into the cell...

and here is the problem.. i go to the specified point in the cell and nothing happens...

could you give me the code to console the next step of the quest, or tell me what i have to do now?

i tried waiting (with and without using T )  walking around in the cell and closing the door, nothing helped..

talking to Tishal (the Pur-Falmer) again, i have no textoptions to get it going on...

 

thanx in advance.....

 

[Celedhring]

Just a remark...considering the lag/scripts associated with major cities in Oldrim, if you're going to rework Things in the Dark, could you concentrate the story around less used settlements like say..Rorikstead.  For one thing..the cult of Chaur-Tegoth would want to maintain a low profile...being caught in a major city like Solitude or Markarth isn't going to go well for their attempts to keep a low profile until it's time to take over.   So move the quest hubs out to where there's less chance to crash? (lol)  God forbid that any quests takes place in Windhelm or Whiterun....

[Lupine00]

21 hours ago, Celedhring said:

Just a remark...considering the lag/scripts associated with major cities in Oldrim, if you're going to rework Things in the Dark, could you concentrate the story around less used settlements like say..Rorikstead.

Everything creepy always happens in Rorikstead... But one problem is that there's almost nothing there. I guess that leaves room to build.

 

I think the reason the quest is set around Windhelm is the Dark Elf connection, and it would be quite tricky to simply throw that away. However, moving the farm-house at the end to Rorikstead would make some sense. Trying to put the rest of the quest there would make Rorikstead a very different place. It would probably need new buildings, maybe a market...

 

I know Rorikstead could use a smith at least, but the rest might seem a bit much?

[Celedhring]

Given the anti-foreigner sentiment in Windhelm, I'd imagine it'd be absolutely be the last place to show your face if you're anything other than a Nord.  Ulfric barely tolerates the Dunmer in the Gray Quarter..and I'd think it wouldn't take much for Ulfric and the Stormcloaks to *completely* purge Windhelm of undesirables - i.e. non-Nords. 

 

I mean..look at what Ulfric did to the Forsworn in the Reach, after all. 

 

Besides, given the Falmer connection, Windhelm is a long way off from Ibn and other Falmer settlements in the Dwemer ruins.   Anything in the Reach makes more sense due to the sheer number of Dwemer ruins in the area, and the Forsworn would make for ideal dupes...er....allies but that'd be a pretty tenuous alliance at best given that the Forsworn shamanistic religion is far different from the worship of Chaur-Tegoth. 

[Fuzzy_Fox]

Rorikstead is supposed to have a daedric cult there already. What if it happens to be a cult worshiping Chaur-Tegoth?

[EinarrTheRed]

I think the racism is a bit over-hyped.  With the dunmer I think it started with simple tension over unwanted refugees, a lot of tension over clashing cultures, people not fitting in nor adopting the local culture, etc. creates friction, tension and that too easily turns to racism, but racism is the symptom not the cause. 

 

With the Reach I think its hardly about racism and a LOT about history and resources.  The Reach is claimed by both the Nords of Skyrim and the Bretons of High Rock which it borders.  It's been occupied by both.  The Reachmen, while listed as being mostly Bretons in Skyrim are more of a mix between Nord and Breton at this point with their own distinct culture.  But there's also the resources, Markarth is an inhabited Dwemer city with more extensive ruins underneath.  It would be a prize for that alone.  But the Reach is also the major source of both silver and gold in Skyrim, and again, that alone would make it worth fighting over for all sides.  Add in the very defensible terrain which makes it strategically valuable and you've got a patch of territory that people are going to fight over.  So whether its the Nords, the Bretons, the Empire of the Reachmen, I think the area will always be fought over.   Throw in Falmer looking to reclaim a Dwemer city and you've just added to an already boiling kettle.

 

In vanilla Skyrim its iffy as to whether there is a daedric cult in Rorikstead or not.  Conspiracy theories abound online and there are some good ideas out there.  For example, maybe its not a cult.  One person (Camelworks) puts forth a pretty good case for it being only Juoane and Reldith who are in on the sacrifices, and that is the result of Juoane having made a pact with Clavicus Vile for fertile soil with predictable results when making such pacts.  My chief problem with that theory is that it doesn't address the question of what's going on with Sissel, it doesn't explain the 4000+ year history of Rorikstead, and it doesn't explain how Juoane make a pact with Calvicus Vile 26 years ago when for the last few centuries he's been trapped in one of his own shrines because he's a moron (I wasn't much impressed with how Bethesda presented that quest).  However, I have wondered if maybe what we are seeing might have been the left overs of an original idea for that daedric quest but which never got implemented.  I agree it seems like there's something daedric related going on and there are some really strong clues pointing towards that.

 

I have long wanted to do my own conspiracy mod about Rorikstead.  What I was thinking of doing was kicking it off so that the player is asked to first investigate and clear out Lund's hut, then find a farming family to move in there and start the farm up again.  Then move on to adding a blacksmith, merchant, 2 - 3 more farms; including helping get the resources to build it (stone, lumber, etc.).  All seems innocent and  fine and only later does the weird shit start up.  This adds to the psychological horror as the player realizes the fate of the women on the new farms... a fate they player them self unwittingly lured them into.  And for bonus points you can't run to the Jarl, because since the player was so involved in inducing people to move there they player is already implicated as being a suspected part of the conspiracy, even though they aren't.  The upside is that in my mod concept, once you beat the bad guys, rescued the missing village people (or at least some of em), you are left with a more functional Rorikstead with a smith, merchant and maybe a player home to use as a base.

[Celedhring]

1 hour ago, EinarrTheRed said:

I think the racism is a bit over-hyped.  With the dunmer I think it started with simple tension over unwanted refugees, a lot of tension over clashing cultures, people not fitting in nor adopting the local culture, etc. creates friction, tension and that too easily turns to racism, but racism is the symptom not the cause. 

 

With the Reach I think its hardly about racism and a LOT about history and resources.  The Reach is claimed by both the Nords of Skyrim and the Bretons of High Rock which it borders.  It's been occupied by both.  The Reachmen, while listed as being mostly Bretons in Skyrim are more of a mix between Nord and Breton at this point with their own distinct culture.  But there's also the resources, Markarth is an inhabited Dwemer city with more extensive ruins underneath.  It would be a prize for that alone.  But the Reach is also the major source of both silver and gold in Skyrim, and again, that alone would make it worth fighting over for all sides.  Add in the very defensible terrain which makes it strategically valuable and you've got a patch of territory that people are going to fight over.  So whether its the Nords, the Bretons, the Empire of the Reachmen, I think the area will always be fought over.   Throw in Falmer looking to reclaim a Dwemer city and you've just added to an already boiling kettle.

 

In vanilla Skyrim its iffy as to whether there is a daedric cult in Rorikstead or not.  Conspiracy theories abound online and there are some good ideas out there.  For example, maybe its not a cult.  One person (Camelworks) puts forth a pretty good case for it being only Juoane and Reldith who are in on the sacrifices, and that is the result of Juoane having made a pact with Clavicus Vile for fertile soil with predictable results when making such pacts.  My chief problem with that theory is that it doesn't address the question of what's going on with Sissel, it doesn't explain the 4000+ year history of Rorikstead, and it doesn't explain how Juoane make a pact with Calvicus Vile 26 years ago when for the last few centuries he's been trapped in one of his own shrines because he's a moron (I wasn't much impressed with how Bethesda presented that quest).  However, I have wondered if maybe what we are seeing might have been the left overs of an original idea for that daedric quest but which never got implemented.  I agree it seems like there's something daedric related going on and there are some really strong clues pointing towards that.

 

I have long wanted to do my own conspiracy mod about Rorikstead.  What I was thinking of doing was kicking it off so that the player is asked to first investigate and clear out Lund's hut, then find a farming family to move in there and start the farm up again.  Then move on to adding a blacksmith, merchant, 2 - 3 more farms; including helping get the resources to build it (stone, lumber, etc.).  All seems innocent and  fine and only later does the weird shit start up.  This adds to the psychological horror as the player realizes the fate of the women on the new farms... a fate they player them self unwittingly lured them into.  And for bonus points you can't run to the Jarl, because since the player was so involved in inducing people to move there they player is already implicated as being a suspected part of the conspiracy, even though they aren't.  The upside is that in my mod concept, once you beat the bad guys, rescued the missing village people (or at least some of em), you are left with a more functional Rorikstead with a smith, merchant and maybe a player home to use as a base.

That's not a bad idea, but I'd also add in the option for the Dragonborn to take this down to a far darker path..i.e...actually helping along the weird shit.  In return for the usual - money, power, influence.  In essence, be one of the bad guys instead. 

[Delzaron]

On 21/04/2018 at 12:25 PM, MetZwerg said:

i sorta run into a problem ...

i got the task to assist as a test oject for breeding in the mutator, "Slave Task - Mutators Test Subject"...

so when i go to the specified  pure-falmer and talk to her, she leads me to a falmer "cell" lets the  nearby falmer mount my char and tells me to get into the cell...

and here is the problem.. i go to the specified point in the cell and nothing happens...

could you give me the code to console the next step of the quest, or tell me what i have to do now?

i tried waiting (with and without using T )  walking around in the cell and closing the door, nothing helped..

talking to Tishal (the Pur-Falmer) again, i have no textoptions to get it going on...

 

thanx in advance.....

 

 

On 21/04/2018 at 12:40 PM, Celedhring said:

Just a remark...considering the lag/scripts associated with major cities in Oldrim, if you're going to rework Things in the Dark, could you concentrate the story around less used settlements like say..Rorikstead.  For one thing..the cult of Chaur-Tegoth would want to maintain a low profile...being caught in a major city like Solitude or Markarth isn't going to go well for their attempts to keep a low profile until it's time to take over.   So move the quest hubs out to where there's less chance to crash? (lol)  God forbid that any quests takes place in Windhelm or Whiterun....

 

11 hours ago, Celedhring said:

Given the anti-foreigner sentiment in Windhelm, I'd imagine it'd be absolutely be the last place to show your face if you're anything other than a Nord.  Ulfric barely tolerates the Dunmer in the Gray Quarter..and I'd think it wouldn't take much for Ulfric and the Stormcloaks to *completely* purge Windhelm of undesirables - i.e. non-Nords. 

 

I mean..look at what Ulfric did to the Forsworn in the Reach, after all. 

 

Besides, given the Falmer connection, Windhelm is a long way off from Ibn and other Falmer settlements in the Dwemer ruins.   Anything in the Reach makes more sense due to the sheer number of Dwemer ruins in the area, and the Forsworn would make for ideal dupes...er....allies but that'd be a pretty tenuous alliance at best given that the Forsworn shamanistic religion is far different from the worship of Chaur-Tegoth. 

 

2 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said:

I think the racism is a bit over-hyped.  With the dunmer I think it started with simple tension over unwanted refugees, a lot of tension over clashing cultures, people not fitting in nor adopting the local culture, etc. creates friction, tension and that too easily turns to racism, but racism is the symptom not the cause. 

 

With the Reach I think its hardly about racism and a LOT about history and resources.  The Reach is claimed by both the Nords of Skyrim and the Bretons of High Rock which it borders.  It's been occupied by both.  The Reachmen, while listed as being mostly Bretons in Skyrim are more of a mix between Nord and Breton at this point with their own distinct culture.  But there's also the resources, Markarth is an inhabited Dwemer city with more extensive ruins underneath.  It would be a prize for that alone.  But the Reach is also the major source of both silver and gold in Skyrim, and again, that alone would make it worth fighting over for all sides.  Add in the very defensible terrain which makes it strategically valuable and you've got a patch of territory that people are going to fight over.  So whether its the Nords, the Bretons, the Empire of the Reachmen, I think the area will always be fought over.   Throw in Falmer looking to reclaim a Dwemer city and you've just added to an already boiling kettle.

 

In vanilla Skyrim its iffy as to whether there is a daedric cult in Rorikstead or not.  Conspiracy theories abound online and there are some good ideas out there.  For example, maybe its not a cult.  One person (Camelworks) puts forth a pretty good case for it being only Juoane and Reldith who are in on the sacrifices, and that is the result of Juoane having made a pact with Clavicus Vile for fertile soil with predictable results when making such pacts.  My chief problem with that theory is that it doesn't address the question of what's going on with Sissel, it doesn't explain the 4000+ year history of Rorikstead, and it doesn't explain how Juoane make a pact with Calvicus Vile 26 years ago when for the last few centuries he's been trapped in one of his own shrines because he's a moron (I wasn't much impressed with how Bethesda presented that quest).  However, I have wondered if maybe what we are seeing might have been the left overs of an original idea for that daedric quest but which never got implemented.  I agree it seems like there's something daedric related going on and there are some really strong clues pointing towards that.

 

I have long wanted to do my own conspiracy mod about Rorikstead.  What I was thinking of doing was kicking it off so that the player is asked to first investigate and clear out Lund's hut, then find a farming family to move in there and start the farm up again.  Then move on to adding a blacksmith, merchant, 2 - 3 more farms; including helping get the resources to build it (stone, lumber, etc.).  All seems innocent and  fine and only later does the weird shit start up.  This adds to the psychological horror as the player realizes the fate of the women on the new farms... a fate they player them self unwittingly lured them into.  And for bonus points you can't run to the Jarl, because since the player was so involved in inducing people to move there they player is already implicated as being a suspected part of the conspiracy, even though they aren't.  The upside is that in my mod concept, once you beat the bad guys, rescued the missing village people (or at least some of em), you are left with a more functional Rorikstead with a smith, merchant and maybe a player home to use as a base.

 

I didn't know there is a daedric cult in Rorikstead...

This Jouane is really a strange character !

 

I placed the prologue into windhelm for :

- Azenoth derleth and her dunmers connections

- city not very used for stories.

- a dark and ruined city, ideal for a prologue.

 

About the mutator slave task :

Do you get the scene, with the fucking chaurus and falmer ? If yes, a trigger should appear in the cage. Go inside.

If it doesn't work, setstage it... argh.

 

Grine and me made a brainstorming, and now we have a plan for rebuild the city...

 

 

 

 

[EinarrTheRed]

There is a LOT of conspiracy theories online about Rorikstead, I know of at least two blog sites and about 3 Youtube Videos that all discuss just that one thing, what's going on in Rorikstead.

 

Some stuff a lot of people know, it lacks women especially compared to other settlements, which is odd.  Two of the women died in childbirth or soon after.  We don't know for certain how Lund's wife died, lots of theories about that.

 

Lund's wife's grave is the ONLY grave in Rorikstead, so if these other women died, where are they buried?  Or did they die?  Maybe that's just what they tell people.

 

Why are there skeevers at and inside Lund's hut?

 

Did Lund commit suicide?  There is a bottle of poison on the table near his bed.  If so, why?

 

Jouane seems very defensive when asked about the prosperity of the farms and the fertility of the soil, maybe a bit TOO defensive.

 

Erik (who is an interesting character for out of game reasons), wants to be an adventurer, his father doesn't want him to go.  Okay, nothing weird about that.  But if you hang around and listen at some point Erik tried getting into his father's locked chest... in the basement... the one the inn doesn't actually have.  Okay maybe that was just a oversight on the part of the world builders.  But its Mralki's reaction that is a bit odd.  Whatever is in the chest, he locked it away for a long time ago and he doesn't want it opened.   Erik thinks its his old armor, but Mralki never says it is, he just says if Erik can open the chest he can have WHATEVER is in it?  So what's in the box da?  Keep in mind Mralki fought in the war with Rorik and Jouane.  Oh, and if you really want some extra weirdness, look up Oblivion, village of Hackdirt; maybe there's no connection or... maybe there is.

 

Rorik claims he bought the land and founded Rorikstead after returning from the Great War, that was 26 years ago.  But, yet Rorikstead is part of a well known traditional Nord song, doesn't seem like enough time for that too happen.  There is another book that mentions Rorikstead as existing in the 2nd Era, that's over 1,000 yrs ago.  And then there is the Atlas of Dragons which mentions Rorikstead as being a single farmstead... in the Merethic Era, that's over FOUR THOUSAND years ago.  So... is Rorik lying?  Is he Immortal?  Is he a daedra in disguise?  Is he undead?  Theories abound and there is no official explanation.

 

Spoiler

My personal theory I had worked out for the mod I wanted to do was this.  Rorikstead has indeed existed since the Merethic Era.  But it has also been destroyed and rebuilt many times during that period.  Each time one of the Rorik bloodline returned and rebuilt it.  The current Rorik is the great, great, great, add a bunch of greats, great grandson of the original founder (i.e. Rorik the 43rd or something).  Its almost as if they are driven to come back and rebuild here again and again... as if cursed or driven by some other force.  And why would something want Rorikstead continually rebuilt?  Who or what wants it destroyed over and over?

 

BTW, in Gaelic, Rorik means "Red King" and that has a significance in Gaelic lore.  It might also figure into Forsworn lore.  Red Eagle?

 

Then there is the shrine to Akatosh on the hill above Rorikstead.  There are only about three such outdoor shrines to Akatosh in Skyrim, but what makes this one really peculiar is it is the only one to have a dragon scale lying next to it.  Where did that come from, who left it there and why?  Add that to Sissel's dreams (see below) and it gets even... odder.

 

But that's not even the really weird shit.  Hang on to your daedric bows folks cause from here on out things go right off into the Twilight Zone weird.

 

Apparently prior to Rorik 'founding' Rorikstead just 26 years ago *cough*cough* the ground here was completely infertile, nothing would grow.  Now suddenly not only do things grow so well they've never had a bad harvest, but Ennis even wants to sell the soil itself to farmers in Whiterun!  Selling dirt, imagine that... dirt that 26 years ago nothing would grow in.  Why... it's almost storybook like... like a miracle, but with an evil twist (and read that last line in Clavicus Vile's voice, cause, yeah that's one popular theory).

 

The two girls, Briite and Sissel are twin sisters with Britte being a whole 5 min older.  Jouane is teaching Sissel magic in secret.  But the really odd part is Sissel herself if you talk to her.  Turns out she has dreams about a dragon.  A big, ancient, friendly, GREY, dragon.  Hmmm... where in Skyrim have we seen a big, ancient, friendly, GREY, dragon.... if you said Paarthurnax, congrats!  Yup, little Sissel is apparently having seer like dreams about one of the most pivotal dragons in Skyrim's history.... why, what's the connection?   And we don't know, because strangely no one in Skyrim ever mentions or refers to Sissel, not even ole Paarthurnax.  What's going on here?

 

But we haven't hit the weirdest shit yet.

 

Jouane is a healer.. and yet all those women died despite there being an expert healer right in the village.  Odd.  Odder still this healer owns only one book.  That book is the Spirit of the Daedra.  What's the book about... the nature and types of daedra, dealing with them and how daedra view humans as prey.  But that's not the weirdest part of this.  This book can only be found in one of three places in Skyrim.  One is at the college of Winterhold library, figures.  One is Apocrypha, realm of Hermaeus Mora, and the third... Rorikstead.  Weird.

 

And why do I mention that as being part of the weirdest stuff... read on gentle reader... read on.

 

The weirdest thing of all is back at Lund's Hut... or outside it.  No I don't mean the exterior of the hut.  I mean go in the hut.  Turn clipping off and walk thru the walls and brace yourself for the truly strange.  Bethesda started building an exterior for the hut INSIDE the interior cell, where you would NEVER see it.  And its not an ordinary setting, there's this weird green mist and the sky is purple, almost like... like... somewhere in Oblivion.  Far as I know that green mist does not appear anywhere else in vanilla Skyrim.  It was deliberately done but we don't know why.  And weirder still, if you explore around a bit and are very sharp eyed you may find a book... outside this hut in a part you would normally NEVER see unless you turn clipping off.  What's the book... the Book of the Daedra. (Note: the sky might not be purple if you are using Climates of Tamriel or other environmental mods, I checked after posting and mine isn't purple anymore but the green mist below is still there).

 

Yeah, cue Rod Serling's intro, roll theme music and there you are.  You have now entered the Twilight Zone of Skyrim.

 

Rorikstead is one very weird place when you poke around.  Which is of course why it has inspired so many conspiracy theories, mods, etc.

 

Also, I REALLY love game lore.