Kendo 2 Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Wha? Across the board (no matter the forum or site) endorsing theft/piracy/anything illegal es ist verboten. This is common sense.
Guest endgameaddiction Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Yeah, but there is a moment when to draw the line. Just like when they chose to ban loli/underage content. Some people were upset and blabbering cencorship and most people felt disturbed by the things that were being posted here. In the end it was decision made for the site. Not a side between one or the other. It was putting LL at a real high risk of being shut down in the near future and I rather see that stuff gone than see LL go down. All it really takes is the wrong person finding this place, or someone snitching to the feds about LL and BOOM! adios amigo! Everything LL was built upon (staff and members) is all gone. We probably shouldn't have to depend on obscure places, but this site is viewed internationally and it's putting a high risk on many users from other countries where LL is banned in their homeland.
Zor2k13 Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Yeah pedo is never accepted ever I hate that shit as do many others. Too bad chris hansen to catch a predator show was canceled it was drawing attention to a very important issue in the world. Unfortunately pedo shit infests those obscure places and won't go away any time soon. I can't stand loli and don't understand why people look at it or how is it different from pedo because to me it looks exactly the same. @kendo2 I am not promoting piracy! what I am saying is that it should not be a problem to discuss it anywhere in the world. Just because people talk about it that doesn't mean a site should be shut down for it or looked upon badly for it etc. EDIT If modding becomes illegal then it would have to be called piracy because game content included with a mod would be considered stealing not copying or modding. Already modding of online multiplayer games well most of them is illegal or considered cheating.
EloquentlyUnbalanced Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Wha? Across the board (no matter the forum or site) endorsing theft/piracy/anything illegal es ist verboten. This is common sense. Considering the American governments and most American corporations reach yeah I'd say so. What you said earlier about being jailed is a fear for like, anyone across the country. I've seen people get picked up by US officials out of country before. Not being ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED just stating it as a confirmation of your point.
Zor2k13 Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 That is what I am talking about right there, the law is not on the same page as the people not anywhere near it.
RitualClarity Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 You guys missed part of my post, in some parts of the world you can do anything and nothing happens. Some of those places have some bandwidth and most don't but still there are places to go where anything goes. Doesn't make it right thou. and if you are from a country that has a ban of those materials and they catch you .. you can go to jail. Just because something is on the net and available don't mean you automatically get a free get out of jail because it was available and "legal" in some other country. However I believe this is starting to get a bit off subject. As for the OPs question. Proper user created mods are perfectly legal to use for games like those that are supported here. Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV, Skyrim even Simms. Many companies even give the tools to mod the game so that this can be done. The question is the "content" that is being used. Underage content is illegal almost anywhere, Rips are questionable and some countries Bestiality might be illegal as well. So long as the content used has been created by someone or contains materials that you created from the game from content you own and don't contain illegal content then you should have no problem in the legal department.
windpl Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 If you will dwell on all that legal mubo jumbo, then any mod that requires additional software* like nvse skese is illegal. *Not provided by IP owner.
RitualClarity Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 If you will dwell on all that legal mubo jumbo, then any mod that requires additional software* like nvse skese is illegal. *Not provided by IP owner. Where is that clause.. ? I guess I missed something.. I wasn't aware of that! Oh wait.. what is that noise at the front door.. NOOOO>. I didn't know that was illegal. Please let me gooOOO!!!!
windpl Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 If you will dwell on all that legal mubo jumbo, then any mod that requires additional software* like nvse skese is illegal. *Not provided by IP owner. Where is that clause.. ? I guess I missed something.. I wasn't aware of that! Oh wait.. what is that noise at the front door.. NOOOO>. I didn't know that was illegal. Please let me gooOOO!!!! It is part of standard antypiracy eula. Even skese team mentioned it not long time ago while stating their opinion on paid mods.
RitualClarity Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Thanks. windpl I hadn't noticed that part. However that would be hard to enforce now as it has been unprotected for such a long time (at least in US law). It will be seen as an accepted practice. (at least for free mods ). Interesting, I thought the OP was just positing some random meaningless question but it is actually a very good one. To the OP.. Thanks.. I picked up something I hadn't realized and really should have. (as it was right in front of my face).. That rarely happens.
Kendo 2 Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Nothing in the Creation Kit or the Skyrim game EULA mentions dll file extensions by name nor are they defined by the license. The only somewhat pertinent bit is the 'you cannot decompile, reverse engineer, copy, transfer, or other-wise use the Software except as expressly stated in this Agreement' and the word 'you' isn't even defined so they have no idea who they fuck they're legally addressing in the first place. The 'except as expressly stated in this Agreement' is a legal dead fish since by their verbiage even modifications (mods) made with their licensed CK are not defined as such in the license and thus illegal according to the terms. As it stands right now the Skyrim Construction Kit EULA is null and void anyway as they amended it without prior notice to Users (that's the people who have it installed) when they added 5. INCORPORATION OF ADDITIONAL TERMS. I didn't agree to those terms in 2012 when I installed the CK and I didn't agree to them when Steam/Valve initiated a forced update without notification of the new terms and the option NOT to agree to them. I wasn't given the oppotunity to refuse the update and terms I didn't agree to or have prior knowledge of... and that's illegal. There was no reasonable attempt to contact the Users (they admit they kept it a secret) and no legal rememedy was offered. In other words, they violated their own license and that voids it. In the REAL WORLD when a company does that they risk not only being sued but also loosing their claim and recourse against Users. Bethesda and Valve/Steam might be able to get away with this bullshit against individuals but if they tried this against another corporation they'd be slaughtered in court and probably have to pay damages for breach of contract for every instance they violated the license. Moral of the Story: 'Modders' are too goddamned stupid to jump in bed with Bethesda/Steam/Valve and get a fair shake.
windpl Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Thanks. windpl I hadn't noticed that part. However that would be hard to enforce now as it has been unprotected for such a long time (at least in US law). It will be seen as an accepted practice. (at least for free mods ). Interesting, I thought the OP was just positing some random meaningless question but it is actually a very good one. To the OP.. Thanks.. I picked up something I hadn't realized and really should have. (as it was right in front of my face).. That rarely happens. They aren't going to enforce it. The software ip laws are outdated/stupid and often in contradiction. But it is easier to turn a blind eye than change the law.
RitualClarity Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Yes I agree. Anyway if they did they would feel the onslaught of consumers wrath much like Steam felt recently. They never want to do that if they don't' have to. Protecting their resources from other companies is a different matter.
...0... Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 One thing I don't understand about forums like these and others, why bother with legal stuff? Host the site in antigua and forget about if something is legal or not? Probably because that would be like...well...WRONG. In the two years I've been here I've never seen Ashal or any of his staff do anything illegal, endorse anything illegal or otherwise do anything to give Lover's Lab a negative reputation. *Points out the Obvious* "Why bother with the legal stuff?" Hmm...outside of the moral implications and being labled as a thief and pirate, maybe getting sued into bankruptcy or doing time in a U.S. Federal Prison is enough of a deterent. Not to mention the FBI seizing not only your servers but also your personal assets. BUT the big reason not to do 'the illegal stuff' is to avoid being a scumbag piece of shit. This, could not have said it better!
Shadowhawk827 Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 One thing I don't understand about forums like these and others, why bother with legal stuff? Host the site in antigua and forget about if something is legal or not? The guy that made clonecd program remember that and clonedvd? he is an italian guy who moved his company there and he eventually retired there. His software is STILL available and he cannot be touched by m@fi@@ written laws! there are other places too for hosting a site and not get in any trouble from it but that place is well known maybe has better internet than other places. All the forums for games including this one have policies where it is forbidden to post "warez" links but there is no need for that kind of internet police action when you can still host a site in a place where it doesn't matter anymore. I am not advocating "warez" I am just pointing something out here. Places like that you don't have to worry about some game rip content either just post the content and use it which is probably what happens, we only see the side of this from people complaining to places where they can complain and get their content taken down but in other places in the world nobody even gives this stuff a first thought or a second. I guess for most people running sites like this, the issue is more of personal ethics? Yeah it is personal ethics to a degree, but let's be real about setting those aside. Hosting in antigua, costa rica, tonga, and vafious african countries hasn't worked out so well for a few of the more popular torrent sites. Various governments, urged on by industires, have been playing whack a mole with them for a while now. Then there's the rumors that one of those sites is now a government sting operation To keep it on topic though, the point is why deal with having to re-open your site repeatedly (and HOPE you're found again), or worse, when it's relatively easy to work within copyright laws? Realistically with things like modding, it's easy to bend rules a little. Some copyright holders aren't going to care if you make a mod related to their material so long as it's represented in a positive manner. Case & point; I used to play City of Heroes. NCSoft mercilessly cracked down on characters that looked like Marvel or DC Characters or used their names. Thing is, while Marvel was anal about this issue, DC comics had been contacted by various players and told those players it was fine to use their character likenesses so long as the characters were played consistant with their image. That means as long as you didn't make a villain Superman, they were cool with it and recognized this was free publicity. Point is, it's easy to ask instead of just take.
Zor2k13 Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 Finally a logical comment about what I said! The whole thing about the characters in that game is one of the many reasons why I just stopped bothering with comics and comic book characters completely. That is also why I don't like playing online games that much. What happens when something like what you described goes to an extreme? Some eso part deux comes out and people try to make their characters look like people from WoW or other blizzard games and blizzard complains? The whole thing is getting out of control, just look a the mess happening because someone leaked info about fallout 4. If lawsuits keep flying around I don't see how the customer base could stay interested since the majority of any gaming customer base really does have better things to do instead of playing a game, certainly these days.
SensualLust Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 I allways asked myself its legal modding? I love how the games looks with mods and i hate them without it, but its legal to do this?? If modding was allowed by the developer this site probably woudn't exist. Even then if it isn't legal then why do we have the official Creation Kit?
MidbossVyers Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 I love how there are 3 pages of basically "yes".
darkconsole Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 "here are all... ok... most... of the tools you need to mod our shit. but don't do it." >_> what gets you in trouble is being a tool - stealing things from other mods or games. its super easy to not be a douchebag but it seems to escape most people. the rule of thumb is if the front page of the thing you want to steal does not explicitly say "feel free to use as you wish" then fuck off and make your own instead of stealing that one. for example, porting vanilla assets from a game like grand theft auto into skyrim? douchebag. nowhere in the gta eula does it say "feel free to use our shit in other games" - in fact it probably clearly says not to. not to mention im willing to bet almost all my users are violating the eula for my mods in my signature.
Kendo 2 Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 I love how my explanation about 'the legal stuff' was blown off as being illogical. Yeah, absolutely no reason to think that stealing and breaking the law is wrong.
Zor2k13 Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 I agree with your explanations and some others do as well. People around the world are different, have different views about right and wrong. That is the best thing about being different because it provokes debate and discussion and it is also the worst thing because it can provoke violence and wars according to history. The problem right now is also the one thing we can all agree on, the law is a bunch of corrupt garbage! the loss of confidence in any govt seems to be spreading to many major countries. Just look what happened after cameron was re elected in london. People are not happy with govt and laws right now because the govt is just as bad as people are about doing the right thing. Everyone including govt is trying to get something for nothing and that doesn't work because that something has to come out of someone else. Eventually that something is no longer attainable and we have widespread riots and civil wars. For people in general to see the law as fair, govt and big corps will have to let go of the idea of getting something for nothing. Then the legal stuff can be sorted out in a mutually accepted manner.
DoctaSax Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 Bottom line is however that the revolution won't be organized from here, where we like things to stay a-political. Ashal won't be moving to Antigua anytime soon. Palm trees, sandy beaches... he'd hate it.
Ashal Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 MODDING IS NOT LEGAL. STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM! YOU SHOULD HAVE JUST PAID THE FINE!
Buddy Christ Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 Bottom line is however that the revolution won't be organized from here, where we like things to stay a-political. Ashal won't be moving to Antigua anytime soon. Palm trees, sandy beaches... he'd hate it. Hmm, not sure about that. There are also young women there, clad in skimpy bikinis.....
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