Paid Modding is gone... or is it?

[VaultBean2052]

http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-has-removed-paid-mods-functionality-from-steam-workshop/

 

Looks like Valve has heard enough of complaints.

 

Though can anyone else confirm this?

 

 

EDIT: Yep it's moved off steam

 

 

AND kudos to Valve for keeping their word, although they brought this on them.

 

Victory for us all! Well majority of us that is. Somewhere, someplace SkyUI team are facepalming themselves...

 

As a member of this faction I'm proud to say that moders by nature are poor. We have less money then most gamers who don't mind going out and burning loot on some new that just hit the market just because gaming mags said the game was quality. Most ppl who mod their games are ppl like me playing the SAME GAME FOR YEARS. we will upgrade or fix out machines before we go and buy a new game and get emotionally invested in it. Its a wonderful thing that they cut this off at the pass before it effected the community on whole. Whats actually funny is them being allowed to bring money into the picture AT ALL. Bethesda is poor as poor can be when compared to who they compete with on the game market and It just shocked me they didn't have their hand out in this, might be why valve actually stopped it.

 

[windpl]

 

I never considered the 'dumb ass factor' when making comparisons to existing pay-for-content markets.  That's a huge oversight on my part because I know first hand how stupid some -downloaders can be.  The Bethesda indemnity clause doesn’t account for 3rd software and they’ll have to change that since that is what player-made content is.  All the more reason to have a solid pay-for-mods platform that is fair and equal to all parties concerned.  Concerning fair and equal, Bethesda doesn’t deserve 75 net of the possible 100 for a mod.  Bethesda has already been paid when their end users bought the game and official DLCs; that includes the people who mod it.  Bethesda deserves a market value share (33.3%) and nothing more.  And Bethesda's 3rd is what's split to pay the platform, not the modders' share.

 

 

To be honest Bethesda deserve nothing, they already got their cut by making people to buy Skyrim just for mods, like me. Without modding capabilities I wouldn't touch skyrim even if they paid me.

[Zor2k13]

I remember when I first started playing skyrim, the most annoying thing when first trying mods was all the different mod handlers out there. Organizer, loot something, blah blah nobody wants to sit there trying to figure out a bunch of stuff like that. Then try getting some xbone user to use a pc and figure that out too? priceless lol.

 

There needs to be ONE mod organizer type thing and not nexus mod manager. This one thing needs to automatically do some things that tes5edit does too for handling leveled lists between mods. So the new mod player installs the unofficial patches, skeletons and bodies of their choice and then things like FNIS and skse etc then installs the ONE mod organizer thing then dumps in mods and run that ONE thing one time and it auto does everything and says OK play game. The new mods player then clicks away the message then runs the game and that is it the whole thing should be that dam simple.

 

Playing mods in skyrim right now is nowhere near that simple! the average majority probably don't even bother with mods or skyrim they just go back to their console and call of dookietime and don't care. Most people probably just play sports games and call of dookietime anyway and even then only when company is over for a visit or online with their friends after work/on weekends etc.

[redeyesandlonghair]

I just wonder though, like teams like SkyUI, what will they do now? Are they going stop working on SkyUI now?

 

Shame some of the modders who supported this got all of the hate and will now forever be remembered for supporting a failed project. 

 

What this showed us was that there is in fact an immature portion of our modding community that seems to feel entitled to free, quality mods and who will rage, threaten, and throw a general tantrum if the mods they believe they are entitled to will no longer be free.

 

 

The rest of us need to show mod authors that that portion is the minority, and that the rest of us support mod authors, that we value their work, and most importantly that we respect them.

 

 

 

I personally hold no ill will to any of the authors who put their mods up for pay on the steam work shop.  It's their work, they have a right to do whatever they feel like with it, and that includes giving it away for free, demanding payment for it, as well as taking it down and denying us access to it forever.  That last option that they have is the reason we need to remember how important it is to be grateful, supportive, and respectful of mod authors.

 

 

After all, it was mod authors that rallied to get the curated skyrim workshop deactivated, and without them us mod users could never have made that happen.

[Nixea]

 

I just wonder though, like teams like SkyUI, what will they do now? Are they going stop working on SkyUI now?

 

Shame some of the modders who supported this got all of the hate and will now forever be remembered for supporting a failed project. 

 

What this showed us was that there is in fact an immature portion of our modding community that seems to feel entitled to free, quality mods and who will rage, threaten, and throw a general tantrum if the mods they believe they are entitled to will no longer be free.

 

 

The rest of us need to show mod authors that that portion is the minority, and that the rest of us support mod authors, that we value their work, and most importantly that we respect them.

 

 

 

I personally hold no ill will to any of the authors who put their mods up for pay on the steam work shop.  It's their work, they have a right to do whatever they feel like with it, and that includes giving it away for free, demanding payment for it, as well as taking it down and denying us access to it forever.  That last option that they have is the reason we need to remember how important it is to be grateful, supportive, and respectful of mod authors.

 

 

After all, it was mod authors that rallied to get the curated skyrim workshop deactivated, and without them us mod users could never have made that happen.

 

 

I'm sorry, but the whole "entitled users" thing is not a valid point. We're used to mods being free because ever since the days of Morrowind, it was Bethesda who made it crystal clear that modding was meant to be free, so that's how the community has grown around this concept. When a sudden, unexpected change threatens what's a tradition on its own right, people feel threatened and disgusted, which is obvious to anyone who's ever had at least a degree of human contact. Now, I'm not saying all traditions are inherently good, but there are good and bad ways to approach harmful traditions without upsetting balance too much. Here's the problem, there was no problem to "fix" here, and the approach was awful.

 

No, modders don't actually have a fundamental right to demand payment for their mods, unless as Kendo already explained, they've built them from scratch and using the right lisenced tools. They should also be perfectly capable of adressing issues derived from paid mods, because as soon as they charge for content, they OWE their customers (no longer fans, but paying customers) a degree of service. But Bethesda and Valve were providing neither of those, they approached known modders promising a career on modding and basically telling them that using free assets made from other modders with tools without commercial lisences to make their own mods was fair game (Chesko pulled his mods because of this, but as a fair gesture rather than as a legal obligation since Valthesda didn't give a damn), and that they had no legal obligation to provide customer support.

And respect goes both ways, it gets tiresome to see certain moders get bathed in praise while they keep complaining about disrespectful users because they've had to deal with a number of trolls. Not all mod authors deserve respect, neither not all mod users. Respect is earned, and being condescending towards the people who support mods is not a good way to earn the respect of your users.

 

And last I checked, pretty much everyone but a few outsiders to this community who understood nothing of how this works and the few mod authors who jumped into the paidwagon were against this, not only the mod authors who refused. Mod authors alone aren't numerous enough to produce as trong enough voice against paid mods, so it was the labor of everyone who stood against it.

 

[guk]

 

I just wonder though, like teams like SkyUI, what will they do now? Are they going stop working on SkyUI now?

 

Shame some of the modders who supported this got all of the hate and will now forever be remembered for supporting a failed project.

 

What this showed us was that there is in fact an immature portion of our modding community that seems to feel entitled to free, quality mods and who will rage, threaten, and throw a general tantrum if the mods they believe they are entitled to will no longer be free.

 

 

The rest of us need to show mod authors that that portion is the minority, and that the rest of us support mod authors, that we value their work, and most importantly that we respect them.

 

 

 

I personally hold no ill will to any of the authors who put their mods up for pay on the steam work shop.  It's their work, they have a right to do whatever they feel like with it, and that includes giving it away for free, demanding payment for it, as well as taking it down and denying us access to it forever.  That last option that they have is the reason we need to remember how important it is to be grateful, supportive, and respectful of mod authors.

 

 

After all, it was mod authors that rallied to get the curated skyrim workshop deactivated, and without them us mod users could never have made that happen.

 

No offense but it sounds like you haven't really followed the events of those 4 days.

 

---> The users who make death threats and keep posting ascii middle fingers? Minority.

---> The users who actually support paid mods? Minority!

 

All the petition signers and protest mod downloaders have shown the real numbers. Even Bethesda admitted that the amount of petition signers was a huge crowd compared to what their statistics said about how many users had ever modded their game.

 

 

 

And everyone excuse me, but after briefly skimming through that "Totalbiscuit & SMIM & Dark0ne" circle-jerk interview, i can't help but notice that there are just a few important Nexus modders who still scream and kick to protect the idea of paid Skyrim mods. They could see a shiny bright future with bags full of dollar bills coming their way, which is now taken from them. Sucks to be them i guess, and ranting against them is absolutely justified.

If you actually look through all the non-Nexus mod sites, from Halofarm over Hall of Torque to TESgeneral, they have all taken an offensive stance against those paid mods.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and thanks to this whole "Operation Bullshit", the S.A.M. mod is now hidden on HoT and only accessible for members who apply in private.

Well done, thanks.

[Guest privateuser99]

 

Don't even know who the rest are, but SkyUI kind of owns us...if you want to use sexlab anyway.

As long as the mod authors here don't update to v5 it won't be an issue.  If modders don't use it, it is basically useless.

 

same i will wont use v5 for fdbb

rather i edit 4.1 to my own version, or still keep copy of 4.1 without ads. sorry but i don support those who wanted to earn money from it.

 

but i am not saying people cannot update it, its on people.

[Kendo 2]

What this showed us was that there is in fact an immature portion of our modding community that seems to feel entitled to charge for quality mods (that have always been free) and who will blubber, justify, and throw a general tantrum (as in ragequit) if the mods they believe they are entitled charge for remain free.

 

FIXED 

[...0...]

 

So i have been trying to find something to compare this to but so far i have only come up with one that being my own job vs my hobby.

 

So i have my own business as freelance photographer and i guess editor, i do weddings, confirmations, special events, fix/save peoples bad holiday photo's etc. Now i also besides playing video games have hobby in nude and light erotica photos which i don't charge or receive money for despite being basically the same as my money earning job, you know point camera > hit shutter > process > repeat, and put just as much effort and often more into the hobby part as to do the money earning part, simply because i enjoy it.

 

So having an income and hobby in the same field is very much possible. And just to clarify it all started as a hobby and only part of it became career, and funny enough i didn't grow horns or had my eyeballs replaced with fat dollar signs when the opportunity to make profit from it came along, but merely saw it as way to do more of what i love doing without starving to death. And i am honestly surprised to see that there seem to very little faith in the community some are so desperately fighting to protect. and sure every community has its share of dark minded people and it always will regardless of whether or not money is involved to a greater or lesser extent.

 

Now as for the part about modders becoming competitors and there by withholding all their knowledge and know hows to themselves again to me sounds a bit paranoid and can again refer to my personal experience. If i'm out working somewhere and a person walks up me and ask if i could give some tips or advice on something like camera setting what lense i'm using and why or maybe just to have chat about pictures in general, if the person is nice about it then sure i'm more then happy help them out, just as you might ask your local handyman what screws would be best for your home project. and really the same goes for other professionals just last month i got a call from someone in the same line of work as me asking if he could borrow my 50mm since the focus wheel on his broke for whatever reason and it was a 4 hour drive for him to get his other one, and sure i was not using mine at that time, sure he is technically my competitor so really i could care less about his shit breaking right? Indeed but i like to think it's better to build bridges then burning them and maybe i'm just a nice guy, at least most of the time i like to think that i am anyway, but i also link to think i'm not the only who is. 

 

So what does all of this have to do with whether or not modders should be allowed to charge/make money with their mods well perhaps not much since photography has pretty much always been a business whereas modding has always been more of a hobby/freeware thing, but not willing to at least try and evolve and adapt something based only on tradition and the saying; it always been this way, is rather close minded not to say anti progressive. and yeah no need to fix what's not broken but that don't mean you can't improve it.

 

Hell i mean personal transport was around and established long before the first cars came around and when first arriving they were not exactly an improvement, clunky noisy expensive and barely able to break walking speed, but they improved with time, and yeah yeah global warming and all that, but that's what we have history for to keep us from making the same mistake and look for ways to advance ourselves for the better, even if we sometimes hit some bumps along the way.

 

So to conclude, it would seem that we all universally agree that the move made by Valve and Bethesda was not really worthy of the of the gold medal in the field of ways to improve things, to say it mildly, but Rome wasn't build in a day and it would be foolish to think otherwise, but we have the foundation, now we just have to figure how to lag the bricks to the greatest benefit for all parties, both for the companies who has to build it and us the people who have to live there.

 

My ohh my how philosophy can take over at 6:30 in the morning, but yeah if you wanna keep doing things the traditional way fine, i have yet to see any evidence even suggesting you can't keep doing that. but i would like to see things move forward, and some might think or say: How dare you even think that, and to that i say: How dare you say i can't.            

 

Improve, evolve, and you saying throw more cash on it.

Yeah. That's is way to evolve things throw more cash on them. If it have past you, moding is evolving for about 20 years now, games that are warded to be modded are cracked open, mods incorporating other IP to another IP are made, whole games are revoked in new engine. Man, and your idea of support and evolving it is to cash it and cage it. Yeah, you haven't been in this moding world long right? Because that would explain your ignorance.

 

 

Agree!

 

 

[...0...]

Well i can see the analogy - having an expertise in a profession (photography vs. programming / 3d modelling etc), then having a related hobby that eventually turns into a paid job (erotic photgraphy vs. professional game production).

 

Still, the erotic photography has existed since cameras were invented, and has been a huge business since around the 1960's to 1970's. And it didn't take 100 years because people wouldn't want to see naked people before that time, but the sexual revolution with its fall of moral barriers made it legal. And erotic art is as old as stone age clay figures, greek and roman culture, renaissance painters and so on.

Photography just had the misfortune of being born in times of extreme moral confusion (victorian era? iirc).

 

Complex modding like what we do for Skyrim however, has never been a business. The only comparisons that people bring up are stuff like TF2 hats (WTF, a joke), and the rare cases where mods were allowed to turn into highly successful standalone games.

Well if Bethesda had hired Ashal to create a porn simulator using the Skyrim Engine, or Chesko for a Survival / Fishing Simulator, i think most people would have appreciated that.

But secretly luring a few modders and hosters (Nexus) on board and simply dropping the bomb on everybody else? I think this had the opposite effect of what they intended - instead of increasing the tolerance for paid modding, everyone's hatred for the idea is higher than before.

 

 

I hate paid modding with passion it should always stay FREE!

[...0...]

I think this topic has pretty much ran its course and I'm bowing out unless someone else comes up with a viable solution for modders to get paid and not get fucked OR fuck anyone else in the process.

 

My final thoughts: We're going to have to deal with Bethesda and whoever they designate (probably Valve) to make modding viable for everyone.  Be wary of people like Dark0ne, Youtube and Blog pundits and those who seek to make a blind profit off of the community at large.  Always question them and always challenge their opinions.  NEVER agree to anything that sounds too good to be true and never believe anyone who tells you what you want to hear.  Mod for yourself and your love of the game and do a good job or the people who support your efforts.  Do the right thing.  And if you can't do the right thing, do the next right thing.

 

I agree on most you say but i can not agree completely on Dark0ne he and nexus is not as bad as you wanne believe us he is he is still in favor of free mods no exceptions and nexus is site we need to survive this paid madness

 

Many You Tubers are crap spew nonsens, some are ok (TB)just keep a open mind take most with a grain of salt.

[bob11]

Well, the Nexus guy mentions in his new blog post that at least one (?) modder is talking with Bethesda to allow Patreon.  That's nice, provided they allow it.

[Gameplayer]

People that are interested in paid mods that come into this thread need to be reading some of the posts in this thread particularly from these posters.

 

Kendo2

Guk

A_citizen

 

Please don't get upset about some of their angst but the summery thus far is.

 

Legal Licensing of programs, applications, and assets packaged or used in the creation of the derivative work ie the mod that the producer wants to sell.

 

For experienced modders in the know we are not under any question here in the dark about legal ownership compared to new comer's.  Almost all mods contain material that would not be legal to sell.  Those mods may be legal to share freely however, and its certainly legal to ask for a donation this is the primary way to dodge that legal concern for 99% of mods we have right now.

 

There is some short discussion on how to actually make money legit on the mods but it seems to all hinge on how to circumvent or take advantage of loophools which still isn't very clear.

 

A large portion of the posts cover how some people "feel about paid mods"

 

Mostly the discourse has been much easier to read through than alternatives found elsewhere and a much higher level of maturity.

[pinky6225]

I had a thought now that might also be considered, apologies if this has already been hashed apart.

 

The Idiot Noob's Point of View.

 

The Idiot Noob has never installed a mod before, unless you count official DLC; he thinks they sound scary and would break his game, he only trusts official sources. Now here along comes SMIM for 1 dollar, most of which goes to the makers of his game! This adds legitimacy and makes him think it's somehow a lot less risky than downloading SMIM off the Nexus. The Idiot Noob downloads it, and the other pay for mods. He never touches the free ones, because they are not legitimate and fully play tested and set up to work with his game.

 

Now here's the scary part. The Idiot Noob? He's in the majority. There are more people like him than there are like us. Because believe it or not, the world is made up of mostly stupid people. Fun fact.

 

I think you can see the issue(s) here probably. I'm not sure if the Idiot Noob's point of view is a vote for pay for modding because it'll make him risk modding his game, or a vote against, because none of those mods were set up to work with each other or be guaranteed to work with his game despite their seeming legitimacy. And when he runs into the problems any modder does, without the knowledge to do anything with it (like cleaning his masters, setting up SKSE, etc) the Idiot Noob becomes angry.

 

The idiot noob is exactly the workshops intended market though and as that is part of steam (and prior to all the protest mods on their) i think confidence that stuff from the workshop wouldn't screw you over was quite high (i dont recall seeing many complaining along these lines on the steam boards)

 

With free mods support is provided at the authors discretion and as its free you can't really complain about that although i will add some mod authors do bend over backwards to provide support (SD+ author for instance - patience of a saint)

 

With paid for mods as your buying a product i think the support would have to be their however i'm not sure exactly what the law would be if i'm honest, here in the UK we have statutory rights regarding purchases but how they apply to software has always been a mystery

 

[Guest endgameaddiction]

 

I had a thought now that might also be considered, apologies if this has already been hashed apart.

 

The Idiot Noob's Point of View.

 

The Idiot Noob has never installed a mod before, unless you count official DLC; he thinks they sound scary and would break his game, he only trusts official sources. Now here along comes SMIM for 1 dollar, most of which goes to the makers of his game! This adds legitimacy and makes him think it's somehow a lot less risky than downloading SMIM off the Nexus. The Idiot Noob downloads it, and the other pay for mods. He never touches the free ones, because they are not legitimate and fully play tested and set up to work with his game.

 

Now here's the scary part. The Idiot Noob? He's in the majority. There are more people like him than there are like us. Because believe it or not, the world is made up of mostly stupid people. Fun fact.

 

I think you can see the issue(s) here probably. I'm not sure if the Idiot Noob's point of view is a vote for pay for modding because it'll make him risk modding his game, or a vote against, because none of those mods were set up to work with each other or be guaranteed to work with his game despite their seeming legitimacy. And when he runs into the problems any modder does, without the knowledge to do anything with it (like cleaning his masters, setting up SKSE, etc) the Idiot Noob becomes angry.

 

The idiot noob is exactly the workshops intended market though and as that is part of steam (and prior to all the protest mods on their) i think confidence that stuff from the workshop wouldn't screw you over was quite high (i dont recall seeing many complaining along these lines on the steam boards)

 

With free mods support is provided at the authors discretion and as its free you can't really complain about that although i will add some mod authors do bend over backwards to provide support (SD+ author for instance - patience of a saint)

 

With paid for mods as your buying a product i think the support would have to be their however i'm not sure exactly what the law would be if i'm honest, here in the UK we have statutory rights regarding purchases but how they apply to software has always been a mystery

 

 

 

But the way Bethesda and Valve handled this whole situation, clearly says it all. They are not ready to bring this P2M into action. The way it was managed and introduced speaks volumes for itself. I don't see a work around that any time soon. Unless like others have agreed and myself. it will be implemented into FO4 by force and we'll have do either deal with it or not. Putting it in an existing game and mod community for the past 3+ years was utterly the dumbest move. They know it. And as I said, they're kicking themselves in the ass for it. But it won't stop them from trying again and again. It was bad timing. And really goes to show you that neither Bethesda, nor Valve have any clue at all what the mod community is about. I'm surprised Bethesda didn't turn this on Valve since they have a reputation for this with their own product.

 

Bottom line is, it was poorly handled and frankly with poor management comes poor support. They didn't think through about the mods that were uploaded on Valve. if they knew better, they would of picked which mods are legit and which one's are there for trolling. I'm not supporting them in anyway, I'm just giving my observation how I see this whole practice become a catostrophic meltdown. And abruptly had no choice but to step down and accept their mistake.

 

[Kendo 2]

 

 

 

I never considered the 'dumb ass factor' when making comparisons to existing pay-for-content markets.  That's a huge oversight on my part because I know first hand how stupid some -downloaders can be.  The Bethesda indemnity clause doesn’t account for 3rd software and they’ll have to change that since that is what player-made content is.  All the more reason to have a solid pay-for-mods platform that is fair and equal to all parties concerned.  Concerning fair and equal, Bethesda doesn’t deserve 75 net of the possible 100 for a mod.  Bethesda has already been paid when their end users bought the game and official DLCs; that includes the people who mod it.  Bethesda deserves a market value share (33.3%) and nothing more.  And Bethesda's 3rd is what's split to pay the platform, not the modders' share.

 

To be honest Bethesda deserve nothing, they already got their cut by making people to buy Skyrim just for mods, like me. Without modding capabilities I wouldn't touch skyrim even if they paid me.

One third is market standard and it doesn't matter what I THINK Bethesda has coming, that's just their due.  Collection agencies, attorneys, UCC vendors like Pitney Bowes and Xerox, they all get one third of the net and then pay their own taxes.  I read in a post somewhere that the 'industry standard' for software is something like 16% for 3rd party vendors.  That MIGHT be true and if it is, it's not fair and equitable and people shouldn't agree to it.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Anyway, after doing a little bit of reading this morning and a phone call to a Commercial Law League friend of mine I’ve come to the informed conclusion that paid modding is indeed viable but the market and licensing would have to be built from ground zero.

 

The current contractual agreement between Bethesda and Valve would constitute a monopoly if paid modding became a reality as they initiated it last week.  You can only get the CK software from one place legally (Valve).  For the four days mods-for-money was active Valve controlled access AND the market.  Not only did they control who gets the free software, but also where the end product could be sold and at what profit percentages.  They also had the capability of closing the market (via banning members) to anyone at any time*.  All of that is illegal.

 

(*They weren’t banning members for abusing the paid modding scheme, they were banning them because of forum infractions and that is NOT covered by the CK’s EULA.)

 

In a nut shell, my attorney friend said Bethesda would have to deregulate how their software is presented and if they did create a market they would be required by law to make it an open one over a multitude of venues.  Valve could not hold exclusive non-negotiable rights to be the sole vending platform and Bethesda would have allow other vending platforms to host and sell the products (mods).  How they do that is up to them but there would have be an open market.

My attorney friend also said they would probably try to market it as a service they provide and attempt to regulate who can sell what and where.  Which is 100% legal though they would have to ensure a fair market and and not regulate vendor platform competition*.  (They wouldn’t be allowed to favor Valve over GOG, for instance).

 

(*Think how phone companies were de-regulated back in the late 70‘s and more recently, Net Neutrality for service providers.  The market has to be fair with no monopolies; you can’t price gouge or play favorites.)

 

The one thing he said to me that made me raise an eyebrow was, “Why would any corporation be interested in this (modding)?  It’s a waste of time and a money pit unless there is an established market ready to sell and trade when the opening bell rings.”

 

I didn’t have an answer to that because I don’t know.  I don’t think Bethesda knows at this point either.

[Kendo 2]

Kendo 2‘s Half-Baked Solution to Paid Modding

 

• Bethesda would need to make their next release available through several platforms or host it themselves.  No matter the platform, the game would need be installed into a Bethesda directory on users’ computers and not use the platforms’ directories. ( Such as Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\common\.)
  
• The construction kit would need to be hosted by Bethesda on their own site as it was for previous game releases (Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3).  If they intend to make money with it, Bethesda needs to divest platforms of any interest and control it and access themselves.
  
• For the getting-paid-to mod franchises, end users would be allowed to designate web addresses in the construction set interface they prefer, if they choose to charge for mods.  Free mod esps/esms would still be created in the game’s Data folder as always.
  

 

These three things would set the game up to be compatible with all game installs, not matter where the user purchased the game.  The end users would also be allowed upload for-cash-mods to the web address of any valid vending house they choose.

 

• Bethesda would need to develop their own mod manager or endorse a private developer’s mod manager as the ‘Official Mod Manager’.  All end users would be using the same utility to install purchased mods and resolve the issues player-made content inherently has.  Free mod users would still be able to use whatever utility they like, but only the one Bethesda made or endorsed would be sanctioned and Bethesda would not be liable for conflicts between different mod managers.
  
• For-cash-mods would only be available through licensed and therefore legal vending houses.  Out of necessity these would need to be ran as businesses and not game forums or discussion boards.  An existing business model that works is Renderosity.com.  There is nothing wrong with taking their working model and making it fit a new market.
  
• People modding for cash would be responsible for their actions, both legal and moral.  Modders using free software that prohibits sale of content made with it, modders stealing assets from other modders, modders taking assets from other copyrighted games; all of those would be grounds for revoking the license on the Bethesda software and possible criminal charges being filed.  There are other legalities but they are too numerous to list here.  Needless to say, the normal modding shenanigans people are used to getting away with would hold tangible consequences, if they chose to mod-for-cash.  Free modding would still be the free-for-all monkey dung fight it’s always been.
  
• Anything derived from vanilla Bethesda assets would not be available for 3rd party sale.  Retextures, remodels, fixes, amendments and other modifications could not be sold.  They would remain the property of Bethesda and in the realm of free mods.  This would insure mod quality to some extent and prevent people from charging for overhauls, unofficial patches, and stop people with no talent from making a quick buck at the expense of others.  (Looking at you, BlackBlossom.)
  
• The mod vending houses would have no vetted interest in uploaded content other than surety/warranty.  They would not own content uploaded by modders and would not exert any level of control over legitimate content that isn’t deemed reasonable.  (Locking down a suspect mod would be reasonable; prohibiting a modder from deleting their own content would not be).
  

 

BUT, I’m getting ahead of myself.  For any of this to work would require new licensing for a Bethesda game.  And by nature that license would include things Bethesda is simply not willing to accept, since they would be held accountable to a market standard and not one that favors them on every front.  They wouldn’t be able to claim interest in things they have no interest in and paid modders would have to be protected AND provided for in the terms.  Yeah, good luck with that.

[Guest endgameaddiction]

Even if this was set and stone, I don't feel Bethesda would give a reasonable cut to the mod creator. Maybe they will? I just can't picture a large corporation accepting chump change over the user. The issue I see here is Bethesda opening up a Mod Shop for these mods and it begins to hurt Steam Workshop. It's something I don't think Valve will take lightly. And Zenimax needs Valve for revenue. Unless they pull a fast one and start doing their own sales on their official site. The amount of audience would depend on what their established mod community has to offer. Because yes, a lot of console gamers jump the wagon and rebuy Fallout and/or TES because of mods. Other communities would take the plunge. Nexus being the #1 to go down because what good does it do Bethesda's established mod shop (community) if Nexus has thousands of more mods and a few hudnred of them with potential profit? And this is where I would think free-to-mod would not work at all. Not much for revenue if most of those worth downloading mods are free. Which is why Valve claimed ownership on any and all mods that were uploaded to. Revoked after knowing it was a total disaster the way they approached this.

 

So yeah, I don't see it ever working, unless it's forced into a new title. And it's up to the consumer whether or not it's worth it. And if it does happen, which I believe it will somewhere in the future, consumers have to play it smart. Don't buy until there is a substancial amount of mods worth buying that offer just as much content as official DLCs. And make sure that it's being policed as much as the Nexus moderators swinging their ban hammer left and right.

[afa]

Modding is (for the most part) not directly profitable for all party involve, other than it being a marketing tagline. If it can even be turn into a slight profit it is something that I think businesses are willing to pursuit.

Even if Bethesda has take a lower cut with files being hosted and download from sanctioned sites which has to support the infrastructure that might still be attractive enough proposal for Bethesda to go with since they can pretty much be hands off with everything if they choose to.

[Kendo 2]

I don't see paid modding being anything substantial as far as a monetary insentive goes, for modders or Bethesda.  Lots of liabilities, lots legal issues, potential for abuse and chicken scratch as a paycheck.

 

I already have the buyer beware menality when it comes to Bethesda games anyway.  I wouldn't have bought their last two moddable releases if they hadn't been bargains.  I bought NewVegas off Ebay for $15.00 the same week it was released and pretty much the same deal for Skyrim a month after it came out.  There's no fucking way I'll ever pay 60 bucks for one of their games and if they try to control modding and make things harder than they already are I won't be buying them unless they're in the $3.00 que at Steam.

[Sacremas]

It's kinda funny, with the whole paid mods I was going like "I swear I will never buy another Steam game, GOG for life!"

Moments after; "Oooh, TIE FIghter Special Edition for half a buck! Buy them! And the whole X-Wing Franchise!"

Moments after that; "DOH!"

 

So much for integrity, Steam just lifted it's skirt and Darth Vader was looking up from me under there and we were back in bed.

 

Well that was an odd analogy.

[bob11]

It's kinda funny, with the whole paid mods I was going like "I swear I will never buy another Steam game, GOG for life!"

Moments after; "Oooh, TIE FIghter Special Edition for half a buck! Buy them! And the whole X-Wing Franchise!"

Moments after that; "DOH!"

 

So much for integrity, Steam just lifted it's skirt and Darth Vader was looking up from me under there and we were back in bed.

 

Well that was an odd analogy.

 

You do realize these games were on GOG, too, right?

[Sacremas]

... DOH!

[jfraser]

It's kinda funny, with the whole paid mods I was going like "I swear I will never buy another Steam game, GOG for life!"

Moments after; "Oooh, TIE FIghter Special Edition for half a buck! Buy them! And the whole X-Wing Franchise!"

Moments after that; "DOH!"

 

So much for integrity, Steam just lifted it's skirt and Darth Vader was looking up from me under there and we were back in bed.

 

Well that was an odd analogy.

 

Is...is TIE fighter on Steam? My second favorite game of all time?

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with paid mods, as long as it isn't required to charge for them. the way they went about implementing them was kinda crappy, and they needed to make the split at least 50/50, but the idea would have thrived or died on its own merit.

[LidiaSun]

I remembered about some old news but related for comparison about philosophies

 

In the recent events how Beth & Steam had tried to sell mods (75% for them) and the whole philosophy of Beth selling DLC's and  the original game with huge amount of bugs there are other companies in the opposite philosophy  http://thewitcher.com/news/view/867   either we like the game or not the philosophy is the winner.