Paid Modding is gone... or is it?

[Clarissa]

Paid modding has its benefits and downfalls.

 

They could have kept it but made it entirely optional to "tip" the developer.

[Derp McDerp]

Paid modding has its benefits and downfalls.

 

They could have kept it but made it entirely optional to "tip" the developer.

 

I don't think they would do that since very few people will ever voluntarily give money to the dev for what a totally unrelated modder did. They may have made the game, but they got their cut when we bought the game.

[afa]

Is it finally time for round 2? Is CK for Fallout 4 here yet?

I am filled with morbid curiosity.

[myuhinny]

From what I heard a beta version was released.

[Lendova]

Keep in mind guys, Fallout 4 will not have workshop support. We gona get our mods ingame/bethesda.net, Nexus etc.

[pinky6225]

 

Paid modding has its benefits and downfalls.

 

They could have kept it but made it entirely optional to "tip" the developer.

 

I don't think they would do that since very few people will ever voluntarily give money to the dev for what a totally unrelated modder did. They may have made the game, but they got their cut when we bought the game.

 

 

Isn't that in essense how all the player markets in games now work? thinking diablo 3 or the steam trading system as an example, so while the percent of the fee (i.e. 50%) should be argued the concept of paying a royalty is hardly new - if anything beth marketting fucked up there and should have gone for a very low royalty fee and focused on volume (i.e. 2% of the transaction but getting 2% from a shit load of transactions)

 

Every now and then we get a thread appear on LL where someone offers money for mods/support so there is already voluntary demand so i dont get the problem with allowing peeps that choose to caterring to that demand - its not like someone is going to appear in your house, put a gun to your head and make you pay for shit because someone else has

 

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

I don't own Fallout 4. I wasn't planning on getting it until the price drops radically during a sale. But if Bethesda decides to pull this shit again with the game, then I'm just not buying it, period. If Bethesda wants to make money from modding, then they should charge for the modding tools. At least then they would be making money from their own actual work and product, rather than be filthy fucking greedy parasites who feed off the work of others.

 

But then, given how several features in 4 look like they were pulled directly from mods, it doesn't seem like they're strangers to sucking blood from the ideas and works of others.

[Kriegera]

Bethesda can eat me. I'll save my cash for Obsidian's next game. 

[myuhinny]

@Kamen Rider Kuuga

 

They have done more then suck the blood from ideas they have taken everything from some and then tried to say they did it. Remember hearthfire DLC for skyrim? A modder made that from the ground up by themselves and then bethshita turned around and made hearthfire which pretty much made their mod obsolete.

[RitualClarity]

@Kamen Rider Kuuga

 

They have done more then suck the blood from ideas they have taken everything from some and then tried to say they did it. Remember hearthfire DLC for skyrim? A modder made that from the ground up by themselves and then bethshita turned around and made hearthfire which pretty much made their mod obsolete.

 

I see where you are coming from... however how is that different from a modder creating content that is the same as others? Are you saying that they TOOK the assets created from this modder? If they just created a mod along the lines of the modder's mod then they did the work. Sure it sucks but that modder could have continued to fleshed out his/her mod to add more features than Hearthfire.

 

Bethesda is no different from anybody else that creates mods or games. They take inspiration from what has come before. In this case an actual mod that was created. I am sure with the added content being constantly created and the flow of the community and such they will continue to take from the community ideas for their games.

 

Also how many mantis mods are there for FNV?

 

 

[bjornk]

If a game studio, which employs hundreds of artists, designers, programmers, needs to find their inspiration in a modder's work, it'd better quit the business for good.

[Vykroft]

If a game studio, which employs hundreds of artists, designers, programmers, needs to find their inspiration in a modder's work, it'd better quit the business for good.

 

+1

[myuhinny]

Agreed and if they deem the stuff good enough for their game or as a DLC then that person should be good enough to work on their team for their games. There was another modder that they hired that made a pretty good mod and they never pulled that shit with them probably because of the shit storm they would of been hit with if they had and probably figured there wouldn't be that much if they did to this one.

 

@ritualclarity

 

I can't remember if they made it just like the persons adoption mod or if they took it or parts of it and used it in their DLC not even sure if the mod author is still around anymore modding or if they just instead gave beth the finger and walked away.

[Zor2k13]

They don't care if something is good or not they just want to keep getting paid and for that they need to keep working. So if they make great stuff or a pile of turds it doesn't matter as long as each dev still has a job and gets paid. They know this strategy works because call of dookie games sell every year.

[RitualClarity]

 

If a game studio, which employs hundreds of artists, designers, programmers, needs to find their inspiration in a modder's work, it'd better quit the business for good.

 

+1

 

 

Well don't look closely at games in general because ideas from Fallout 3 was taken to Fallout Nv and Skyrim ideas were taken just like it is possible to say many early mods for fallout 4 was taken as well. Game companies take what they legally can from other companies and stories and even movies. I doubt this will change and I am sure they won't quit the business either. They will just expand their observations and ideas and add more to their games from sources where possible. Sorry but this is the real world and this happens all the time.

[Guest endgameaddiction]

I wouldn't take it so personal. On the contrary, if I was a modder and made a pretty big immersive mod that not only myself, but others feel it should of been part of the game and it was implemented in their next title, I would feel pretty relieved knowing that I wouldn't have to do it again for a new game.

 

I think arcoolka has the right mind set about it.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/7070/?tab=4&&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout3%2Fajax%2Fcomments%2F%3Fmod_id%3D7070%26page%3D1%26sort%3DDESC%26pid%3D0%26thread_id%3D129683&pUp=1

[RitualClarity]

I wouldn't take it so personal. On the contrary, if I was a modder and made a pretty big immersive mod that not only myself, but others feel it should of been part of the game and it was implemented in their next title, I would feel pretty relieved knowing that I wouldn't have to do it again for a new game.

 

I think arcoolka has the right mind set about it.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/7070/?tab=4&&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout3%2Fajax%2Fcomments%2F%3Fmod_id%3D7070%26page%3D1%26sort%3DDESC%26pid%3D0%26thread_id%3D129683&pUp=1

 

I agree. If they think it is so good that they decide to add it to the game then it speaks to the work that was done. However different people has different though on the matter and it could be upsetting to some if they aren't even mentioned. however I don't think Bethesda can mention the inspirations of their work for legal matters. Could be wrong.

 

In any case. If they do implement a paid mod system for Fallout 4 along the same time the CK comes out then fine. I doubt I will be paying for any mods and I hope that others "take inspiration" of the mods created and paid for and create some similar mods .

 

Now huge mods like some of the lands that were created etc, with dozens of people working on it .. well that might be justified if the price is right and provided that we don't have to have 10 other paid mods to get it to work. (which is a real potential thing to happen).

[Swanky]

The main issue here is not "Would I pay for mods" but "Do I have to pay for mods". A lot of modding teams already have small paypal accounts who use the income to maintain costs for running their homepages for example. The donations are usually not much but they help keep the systems running.

Now if a modder decided to not make the mod available to non-paying users, this will be a big issue because it's basically DLC. If you do not have the mod, you potentially cannot play on modded servers online (games like Killing Floor, for example, use mods and mutators on their servers - or remember the UT / Quake days). Someone above already mentioned prerequesites that have to be paid for. Then what? You'd have to pay for a mod to use another mod you paid for as well.

 

Of course, there is also the issue of Bethesda / Valve getting (grabbing?) your money. I do not know of what percentage of your money they take as a fee, but reading it being more than half of the price seems really high, especially if you factor in taxes. Even if they have a staff to pay, servers to maintain - every company I know does it for profit. Is Bethesda a stock corporation? If they are, you can be sure that the idea was either formulated by the CEO to please the share holders or it was formulated by the shareholders in order to maximise their profit. No company has any other goal. Well, Greenpeace is a different story...

 

I think it really depends on how the community is reacting. Just let me grab my popcorn...

 

[pinky6225]

The main issue here is not "Would I pay for mods" but "Do I have to pay for mods". A lot of modding teams already have small paypal accounts who use the income to maintain costs for running their homepages for example. The donations are usually not much but they help keep the systems running.

Now if a modder decided to not make the mod available to non-paying users, this will be a big issue because it's basically DLC. If you do not have the mod, you potentially cannot play on modded servers online (games like Killing Floor, for example, use mods and mutators on their servers - or remember the UT / Quake days). Someone above already mentioned prerequesites that have to be paid for. Then what? You'd have to pay for a mod to use another mod you paid for as well.

 

 

I would disagree with your statement since if you were purchasing something then you are entitled to a set of rights that are not present if you are donating/giving away for free, so with your specific example of buying mod A but not being able to use it due to needing mod B then unless this was very clearly stated (in which case you should have factored this into your decision) then you would be entitled to claim (atleast in the UK as it would break statutory rights as described and fit for purpose) and at the minimum get your money back.

 

Admittedly my memory is dim but the UT servers i remember where either run on some dudes private server as he literally owned a server or was a paid for server hosted elsewhere and in either case somebody is paying, for you it maybe free to use but that doesn't mean its actually free to keep running/hosted, so allowing people a simpler method of taking payment (and giving the payer a shit load of consumer rights) is a win win surely?

 

[Yami X]

If that's the case.

 

The only people who can possibly fuck this up is modders themselves getting tired of people acting like we just have to deal with this shit Nah not really.

[RitualClarity]

I see a bunch of users uploading their copy of the mod to P2P, through PM and other distribution networks as well.

[Swanky]

I would disagree with your statement since if you were purchasing something then you are entitled to a set of rights that are not present if you are donating/giving away for free, so with your specific example of buying mod A but not being able to use it due to needing mod B then unless this was very clearly stated (in which case you should have factored this into your decision) then you would be entitled to claim (atleast in the UK as it would break statutory rights as described and fit for purpose) and at the minimum get your money back.

 

Admittedly my memory is dim but the UT servers i remember where either run on some dudes private server as he literally owned a server or was a paid for server hosted elsewhere and in either case somebody is paying, for you it maybe free to use but that doesn't mean its actually free to keep running/hosted, so allowing people a simpler method of taking payment (and giving the payer a shit load of consumer rights) is a win win surely?

 

 

 

I hadn't thought of this legal side. Fair point.

Yes UT servers were/are mostly privatly run. The point was not to pay to play on the servers but to have to pay for the mods in order to be able to play on said server.

[ratrace]

Paid mods destroy the modders trust in each other. Would you as a modder rely on someone elses word not to use your assets in a paid mod he or she is planning to release? And exactly that was what happened when this paid mod crap on Steam came up: asset "theft".

 

I'm not talking about the legal side. I'm talking about the erosion of a otherwise very creative and flourishing modding community. When a modder who is a great artist and creates awesome assets wants to earn money with it, he or she really should try to get a job in the game development industry instead of jumping the paywall train just because it's possible.

 

And "the internet" also needs to grow up. People threatening others - sometimes with death - don't help in all this. They are discrediting critics who have a good point.

[DocClox]

Paid mods destroy the modders trust in each other. Would you as a modder rely on someone elses word not to use your assets in a paid mod he or she is planning to release? And exactly that was what happened when this paid mod crap on Steam came up: asset "theft".

Which is why, I believe, that the FO4 EULA has language in it specifically assigning to Bethesda ownership of any mods for the game. If you play the game, you agree that anything you make for it, they own.

 

So if they do decide to revisit paid mods again, you won't have any legal recourse if another modder uses your assets. Well, you'll be able to complain to Bethesda and ask them to do something, but that's about it.

 

Every day that passes, I feel less motivated to make mods for that game.

[rylasasin]

Some of the people over on the Beth.net boards actually shilling for this shit are just too fucking precious.

 

And I quote, for your delectation and delight.

 

 

You are talking about the Skyrim paid mod scenario where the sudden uptick in support cost them a cool million. Ok, well I thought we were done with that.

 

The Skyrim paid mod was very successful as far as sales went on mods those first few days. Everyone knows that because a silly sword mod raked in the bucks.

 

The backlash they are talking about is all the 1% of the whining millennials who sock puppeted a big petition and swore to leave steam and buy games else where.. as if that would have really happened.

 

That wasn't the paid model that failed, it was steam's balls. Now Bethesda is going to have to do it on their own and bring Steam in at a later date when all the crying is done.

 

What are they going to do? Threaten to stop buying Bethesda Softworks and Zenimax games? BIg deal, most of those whining about free content can't download off steam because they have pirated copies anyway. How is it I know that? Because I supported them for over 2 years. The largest population of Skyrim mod users do not use steam for mods. They are from other independent hosting sites. They all worked together to close paid mods down. Of course they have steam accounts. Doesn't mean they had legit copies of Skyrim. Imagine what would happen to said independent parasitic hosting sites if mods went behind a paywall. Now we start to really pull back the curtain.

 

My mod had a scroll from Dawnguard you could place on the wall.. but only if you had a legit version of Skyrim. I had tons and tons of people asking me to fix that. I refused because I figured out why that was an issue for them. They had pirated copies. When I finally connected those dots I pulled my mod from all other outside sites other than steam because I loath thieves. They are the true killers of the free market and polished new content. Enabling them is the worst thing anyone could do.

 

==============

One more very important fact that Bethesda should take note on.. Having mods behind a paywall forces everyone to have to buy a legit copy of their game. At least through Steam's portal it does Because if you don't have a transaction record, you can't have it in your library. And if you don't have it in your library you can't download mods..

 

Pirates would now be screwed blued and tattooed. Just like they should be. Now you'll be sharing with the people who count (your paying customers and mod authors) and getting rid of a whole lot of scum-baggage.

 

Sounds like a win win to me!

==============

 

That's right folks. Anyone who uses Nexus and/or Lovers Lab is a pirate. The big petition was a conspiracy, and paywalling prevents piracy.

 

This is what paytards actually believe.