A little warning to mod creators of non adult mods....

[Redflyingmonkey]

Oh god Gabe 

“Let’s assume for a second that we are stupidly greedy. So far the paid mods have generated $10K total. That’s like 1% of the cost of the incremental email the program has generated for Valve employees (yes, I mean pissing off the Internet costs you a million bucks in just a couple of days). That’s not stupidly greedy, that’s stupidly stupid.”

 

Dude should really get someone to talk for him, he just said what he shouldn't have said and motivated all the crazies out there to carry on the dumb ass spamming. Looks like this whole bullshit is not near over...

 

[Rayblue]

http://www.polygon.com/2015/4/27/8496523/steam-paid-mods-skyrim-opinion-argument

 

"Awesome"? You can have it, as everyone's moving over to GoG.

[windpl]

 

 

Jeees this is still going?

 

Valve and Beth tried something, people didn't like it so it didn't work out, end of story.

 

I mean really what have changed? Other than a few imo brilliant mod authors getting deathtreaths for trying to take their hobby to the next logical step, i don't seem to see much change.

 

And speaking of that, I started my current career on a hobby level. doing stuff for free, favors here and there, later i was able to make some extra money of it and ultimately turn it into my fulltime job in my own business. i guess i should just eat a bullet right now since it would seem i have committed not only one but two deadly sins, one making a profit from my hobby and two making a business with the goal to make more money. I wonder where the line is between being a business and being an evil greedy business?

 

And if it's really such a bad thing it will resolve itself all on its own without the need for an army of internet pitchforks, like the saying against censorship goes: Let the person speak and if his words are truly wicked they will in turn insure his his downfall. and if Valves plan is to fuck its customers it don't really matter if the customer bitches about it, but if the customer is not there to be fucked Valve can only fuck themselves.

 

But but but they owe it to there fans to not be evil and stuff cause we made them what they are blablabla. Alright let's get this straight Valve, Beth, Blizzard, Rockstar, Lord Gabe who ever you like to call god in this matter owes you jack shit, just as you don't owe them anything, they made a product, you bought the product or you didnt, end of transaction something for something etc. If you choose to be a fan and praise them that's all on you.

 

Picture this if you will: I have been getting milk from a milkman for many years and i have been happy with that milk i have recommended it to friends and family, but one day the milkman decides he going to sell his milk to the company Mighty Milks, because they liked his milk and they want take part of that by offering to bring him into their fold, but now i have to buy my milk at the store instead. but wait how could he do this me? so i confront him yelling SHAME ON YOU! as your loyal customer you owe it to me to continue doing things they way i want you too, because you owe me everything mr milky man! terrified by this outburst the milkman calls his wife and tells her that they might need to cancel the vacation they both so badly needed after years of hard work, but my outburst had done its damage, and the milkman had face that he was never going to fulfill his dream of getting his own cows and plants to produce the milk he really wanted to make while being able to provide for his family.

Clearly the milkman is a jackass here, but really the true villains where those bastards over at Mighty Milk trying to enable him to make money of his product to mutual benefits for them.

 

Moral of the story is: Just because you are a user, consumer and or fan of something or someone does mean that they are now in debt to you in any way, and if you don't like what they are doing now in compare what they used to do. don't use or buy there product, and if you really want what they used to do so bad, go get your own cow and make your own freaking milk, don't know how to make milk?

 

Well learn! 

 

 

Sorry if that got a bit ranty, like many others i was shall we say sceptical of this at first and had a lot of questions in my mind, but seeing how the community have responded to this made me cry a little. 

 

Where to start..

 

#1 You need to understand that this isn't about businesses owing anyone anything. This is about good and bad business. What Valve is doing right now is terrible business. 

 

If you treat your customers like shit, you may not see your business fall in the short term, but it will bite you in the ass later. Customers are what make a corporation, Valve, Bethesda, Rockstar, everybody.

 

Without customers, these corporations/companies would be nothing.

 

 

#2 No-one is saying anything is wrong with someone receiving money for doing what they like doing. The problem is that people are becoming blinded by money. Money is a means, nothing more, that is all it is. 

 

 

#3 Valve has taken this approach in a terrible way. It doesn't even help that the CEO of the company clearly does not care, but this has been obvious before anyway.

 

 

 

 

Truly, if you ran a company I would have nothing to do with it, because your attitude to how other people feel is absolutely horrendous. 

 

 

#1 Okay so Valve made a bad call and they will likely take a fall for it, i believe i made that point already, what i was trying to address was that people are acting as if betrayed, like all their toys were suddenly taken away. Company's making bad decisions sometimes is hardly anything new and yeah i agree it sucks when strikes close to home, but let's not turn a firecracker into a nuclear bomb.

 

The market will sort it all on it own by not buying the product, this angry mob mentality is unnecessary.

 

#2  "No-one is saying anything is wrong with someone receiving money for doing what they like doing. The problem is that people are becoming blinded by money. Money is a means, nothing more, that is all it is."

 

So the action is not wrong but the result of it is? Money can make people do some weird stuff again nothing new, but it will sort itself out by people not buying what is being offered, no matter if its valve or a mod author trying to sell.

 

 

Look you are upset i get it and am sorry if i hurt your feelings and ask that you believe me in saying it was not my intention and i don't believe it was Valves either.  but the mental picture i get from this is a bunch of kids sitting on playground complaining that someone build another playground next to them with less features and an entry fee, but instead of playing and enjoying themselves they will not rest until the other playground is torn down.

 

And just so we are clear, just because i don't agree with you don't mean that i'm against you or saying Valve made a good call, in fact i agree with most people in saying Valve made a bad business decision.

 

Money may corrupt but so can angry feelings.   

 

 

Oh like market sorted out DLC?

It sorted it so well, that we have DLCs included with DVD!

[Kaputzki]

I don't think buying mods is necessarily bad, suffice it would support the modders and help them become pro. Not saying I don't prefer them being free.

 

But...

 

Valve is notorious for having 0 quality assurance, so much that I do not look at the front page of Steam as it is riddled with shovelware, early access flops and other grotesque quick-cash-ins rather than games. It's more than likely that this bad practice will be far worse with paid mods on their platform.

 

Secondly, I'm not supporting the modder. I am supporting an obvious cash-in Valve and Beth are having on modders.

 

Also, who guarantees that the mod wouldn't break my Skyrim, or wouldn't work with another mod I've purchased. What happens when I purchase two mods and a week later they announce they're not compatible with each other?

 

This is riddled with problems and it is obviously not a consumer-friendly step.

[mkprovince]

One question, if anyone is more than willing to answer cause I just thought of this (probably even missed a post explaining this over the 60+ pages before this) but can anyone confirm whether we need to fork out extra money for each upcoming updates or it's a one pay, one mod and all the updates inclusive?

[sunder02]

One question, if anyone is more than willing to answer cause I just thought of this (probably even missed a post explaining this over the 60+ pages before this) but can anyone confirm whether we need to fork out extra money for each upcoming updates or it's a one pay, one mod and all the updates inclusive?

All updates included , that's what mod authors say , how many updates are they gonna release or if they'll stick to updating it is up to them though .

[Vacaliga]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jeees this is still going?

 

Valve and Beth tried something, people didn't like it so it didn't work out, end of story.

 

I mean really what have changed? Other than a few imo brilliant mod authors getting deathtreaths for trying to take their hobby to the next logical step, i don't seem to see much change.

 

And speaking of that, I started my current career on a hobby level. doing stuff for free, favors here and there, later i was able to make some extra money of it and ultimately turn it into my fulltime job in my own business. i guess i should just eat a bullet right now since it would seem i have committed not only one but two deadly sins, one making a profit from my hobby and two making a business with the goal to make more money. I wonder where the line is between being a business and being an evil greedy business?

 

And if it's really such a bad thing it will resolve itself all on its own without the need for an army of internet pitchforks, like the saying against censorship goes: Let the person speak and if his words are truly wicked they will in turn insure his his downfall. and if Valves plan is to fuck its customers it don't really matter if the customer bitches about it, but if the customer is not there to be fucked Valve can only fuck themselves.

 

But but but they owe it to there fans to not be evil and stuff cause we made them what they are blablabla. Alright let's get this straight Valve, Beth, Blizzard, Rockstar, Lord Gabe who ever you like to call god in this matter owes you jack shit, just as you don't owe them anything, they made a product, you bought the product or you didnt, end of transaction something for something etc. If you choose to be a fan and praise them that's all on you.

 

Picture this if you will: I have been getting milk from a milkman for many years and i have been happy with that milk i have recommended it to friends and family, but one day the milkman decides he going to sell his milk to the company Mighty Milks, because they liked his milk and they want take part of that by offering to bring him into their fold, but now i have to buy my milk at the store instead. but wait how could he do this me? so i confront him yelling SHAME ON YOU! as your loyal customer you owe it to me to continue doing things they way i want you too, because you owe me everything mr milky man! terrified by this outburst the milkman calls his wife and tells her that they might need to cancel the vacation they both so badly needed after years of hard work, but my outburst had done its damage, and the milkman had face that he was never going to fulfill his dream of getting his own cows and plants to produce the milk he really wanted to make while being able to provide for his family.

Clearly the milkman is a jackass here, but really the true villains where those bastards over at Mighty Milk trying to enable him to make money of his product to mutual benefits for them.

 

Moral of the story is: Just because you are a user, consumer and or fan of something or someone does mean that they are now in debt to you in any way, and if you don't like what they are doing now in compare what they used to do. don't use or buy there product, and if you really want what they used to do so bad, go get your own cow and make your own freaking milk, don't know how to make milk?

 

Well learn! 

 

 

Sorry if that got a bit ranty, like many others i was shall we say sceptical of this at first and had a lot of questions in my mind, but seeing how the community have responded to this made me cry a little. 

 

Where to start..

 

#1 You need to understand that this isn't about businesses owing anyone anything. This is about good and bad business. What Valve is doing right now is terrible business. 

 

If you treat your customers like shit, you may not see your business fall in the short term, but it will bite you in the ass later. Customers are what make a corporation, Valve, Bethesda, Rockstar, everybody.

 

Without customers, these corporations/companies would be nothing.

 

 

#2 No-one is saying anything is wrong with someone receiving money for doing what they like doing. The problem is that people are becoming blinded by money. Money is a means, nothing more, that is all it is. 

 

 

#3 Valve has taken this approach in a terrible way. It doesn't even help that the CEO of the company clearly does not care, but this has been obvious before anyway.

 

 

 

 

Truly, if you ran a company I would have nothing to do with it, because your attitude to how other people feel is absolutely horrendous. 

 

 

#1 Okay so Valve made a bad call and they will likely take a fall for it, i believe i made that point already, what i was trying to address was that people are acting as if betrayed, like all their toys were suddenly taken away. Company's making bad decisions sometimes is hardly anything new and yeah i agree it sucks when strikes close to home, but let's not turn a firecracker into a nuclear bomb.

 

The market will sort it all on it own by not buying the product, this angry mob mentality is unnecessary.

 

#2  "No-one is saying anything is wrong with someone receiving money for doing what they like doing. The problem is that people are becoming blinded by money. Money is a means, nothing more, that is all it is."

 

So the action is not wrong but the result of it is? Money can make people do some weird stuff again nothing new, but it will sort itself out by people not buying what is being offered, no matter if its valve or a mod author trying to sell.

 

 

Look you are upset i get it and am sorry if i hurt your feelings and ask that you believe me in saying it was not my intention and i don't believe it was Valves either.  but the mental picture i get from this is a bunch of kids sitting on playground complaining that someone build another playground next to them with less features and an entry fee, but instead of playing and enjoying themselves they will not rest until the other playground is torn down.

 

And just so we are clear, just because i don't agree with you don't mean that i'm against you or saying Valve made a good call, in fact i agree with most people in saying Valve made a bad business decision.

 

Money may corrupt but so can angry feelings.   

 

 

 

 

Oh like market sorted out DLC?

It sorted it so well, that we have DLCs included with DVD!

 

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

 

A scam only works as long as you fall for it. day-1 dlc is often brought up when talking about how companies are greedy yadayada, but for some reason people still buy it, why? Why do you keep pre-ordering? Why must you play everything on release day.

 

Wanna punish a company? don't buy anything from them, having angry customers is like it or not better for business then having no customers.

[Nixea]

I think that the main problem here is not being paid for your "original" work.. is being paid for stealing someone else work, or someone else knowledge... for being lazy and ask for help in the forum just to release something with a price, like this guy... 

 

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=433039950

 

http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/1010-efeebr-eyes-for-everyone-except-beast-races/

 

And you can see a lot more of his/her post asking for help. Does anyone of those member ask for money when they post solution for his/her doubts? no... is all about sharing without asking anything in return..

 

The first person I block in Loverslab. It means pretty much nothing, but I want nothing to do with that sort of people, or their content.

[Chaos63]

 

One question, if anyone is more than willing to answer cause I just thought of this (probably even missed a post explaining this over the 60+ pages before this) but can anyone confirm whether we need to fork out extra money for each upcoming updates or it's a one pay, one mod and all the updates inclusive?

All updates included , that's what mod authors say , how many updates are they gonna release or if they'll stick to updating it is up to them though .

 

 

Except for all those people who already own the free version. They have to pay for updates.

 

[Guest endgameaddiction]

I don't think buying mods is necessarily bad, suffice it would support the modders and help them become pro. Not saying I don't prefer them being free.

 

But...

 

Valve is notorious for having 0 quality assurance, so much that I do not look at the front page of Steam as it is riddled with shovelware, early access flops and other grotesque quick-cash-ins rather than games. It's more than likely that this bad practice will be far worse with paid mods on their platform.

 

Secondly, I'm not supporting the modder. I am supporting an obvious cash-in Valve and Beth are having on modders.

 

Also, who guarantees that the mod wouldn't break my Skyrim, or wouldn't work with another mod I've purchased. What happens when I purchase two mods and a week later they announce they're not compatible with each other?

 

This is riddled with problems and it is obviously not a consumer-friendly step.

 

Pro? This whole system implementation is to grab these pro's and pay them less than a part time employer at mcdonalds... Beth/Valve are reeking most of the benefits here.

[Aria]

Oh god Gabe 

 

“Let’s assume for a second that we are stupidly greedy. So far the paid mods have generated $10K total. That’s like 1% of the cost of the incremental email the program has generated for Valve employees (yes, I mean pissing off the Internet costs you a million bucks in just a couple of days). That’s not stupidly greedy, that’s stupidly stupid.”“Let’s assume for a second that we are stupidly greedy. So far the paid mods have generated $10K total. That’s like 1% of the cost of the incremental email the program has generated for Valve employees (yes, I mean pissing off the Internet costs you a million bucks in just a couple of days). That’s not stupidly greedy, that’s stupidly stupid."

 

Dude should really get someone to talk for him, he just said what he shouldn't have said and motivated all the crazies out there to carry on the dumb ass spamming. Looks like this whole bullshit is not near over...

 

 

 

LOL "so far" in a couple of days...yeah they are totaly stupid...because steam has only 10k users.

If they already made 10k that's more proof then enough to me that they are testing the waters to see if people are willing to fork cash over this.

[bjornk]

Some mod makers obviously think that they can make a living making mods for a game that is sold for 5 bucks on a sale. Well, good luck to them.

 

One definition of an idiot, at least in my book, is a person who is only interested in his short term gains even if they will eventually lead to the destruction of the things he loved, including his country or the very world he lives in, and the world is full of idiots.

[ElectricSheep]

http://www.polygon.com/2015/4/27/8496523/steam-paid-mods-skyrim-opinion-argument

 

"Awesome"? You can have it, as everyone's moving over to GoG.

Those fucking journos... Another great video game crash can't come soon enough. This whole dirty and corrupted clusterfuck needs to be nuked out of existence.

[bjornk]

 

http://www.polygon.com/2015/4/27/8496523/steam-paid-mods-skyrim-opinion-argument

 

"Awesome"? You can have it, as everyone's moving over to GoG.

Those fucking journos... Another great video game crash can't come soon enough. This whole dirty and corrupted clusterfuck needs to be nuked out of existence.

 

Paying more to get better quality is nothing but a capitalist myth. If that was indeed the case, you'd never get a shitass AAA game, as the devs who produce them get a pretty fat paycheck.

[pornphile]

Pro? This whole system implementation is to grab these pro's and pay them less than a part time employer at mcdonalds... Beth/Valve are reeking most of the benefits here.

 

Some modders earn more than their job in the game industry.

[Guest endgameaddiction]

 

 

http://www.polygon.com/2015/4/27/8496523/steam-paid-mods-skyrim-opinion-argument

 

"Awesome"? You can have it, as everyone's moving over to GoG.

Those fucking journos... Another great video game crash can't come soon enough. This whole dirty and corrupted clusterfuck needs to be nuked out of existence.

 

Paying more to get better quality is nothing but a capitalist myth. If that was indeed the case, you'd never get a shitass AAA game, as the devs who produce them get a pretty fat paycheck.

 

 

Prime example right there. Beth devs already getting payed more than a simple modder on STEAM and they don't even provide a quality game. So it's suffice to say that we can expect incomplete mods and no refund policy in the future because I assure you they will treat mods as like purchasing a game with the no refund on open games.

 

And for Beth/Valve to punish the mod author for releasing a broken mod, well, they need to look in the mirror.

[Ark of Truth]

Does someone want to explain to me what all this "They have to sell mods for $400 business is about?" it now has me confused.

[windpl]

 

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

 

 

A scam only works as long as you fall for it. day-1 dlc is often brought up when talking about how companies are greedy yadayada, but for some reason people still buy it, why? Why do you keep pre-ordering? Why must you play everything on release day.

 

Wanna punish a company? don't buy anything from them, having angry customers is like it or not better for business then having no customers.

 

 

That's why pitchforks are raised, we been fooled once. They of course can force it, but at least they won't brag that they fucked us and we smiled when they did it.

[pornphile]

Does someone want to explain to me what all this "They have to sell mods for $400 business is about?" it now has me confused.

You need to accrue $100 worth of sales to withdraw, the split being 75/25.

 

This is to minimize bank transaction charges I assume.

 

[GrimReaper]

I don't think buying mods is necessarily bad

 

But it is. Think about what it means for the community if you are able to earn real cash with your knowledge alone. Having trouble getting blender or 3DS Max to work with Fallout 4? That's cool dude, I know how to do it but I won't share it because this way I'll be the only one that's able to sell new shit on the workshop. More money for me, fuckers.

[Coopervane]

I don't even want get personal with my own situation pathetic as it is , people will laugh at my own setup and go " really ?" .

Just stating not all mod makers are so well off or were born in Western First World  Countries , Because attacking Mod Makers is really not a solution at this point .

People are not asking the right questions all are going for hatred thats my issue with the scenario

 

Zaz... this is precisely why you should be dead-set against this. I'm in pretty much the same situation, i'm on disabillity and have barely a penny to my name, and i'm running Skyrim on an old hunk of junk that can just barely run the game. And please know that i'm saying the following without agression or malice.

 

 

 

Let me tell you where this is going if it actually succeeds, as it is the only direction that this really can go:

 

 

If companies start to see this as a viable revenue stream, one that is entirely favourable to them (they do none of the work, but take most of the money), they are going to protect it, they are going to force it, and they are going to charge for it. 

 

 

It may not happen today or tomorrow, it may not even happen just yet with FO4 as companies do these pushes slowly, playing the long game. But dollars to donuts, we'll be looking at a future where modders have to pay $120 dollars or more for the game's SDK (because it's an investment now! You can make money with it, so you'd best pay us, suckers!) ontop of having to buy the game and all the official DLC. Mods will be encrypted and cannot be personalized (if it's making them money, they will protect it), they can only be distributed on the company store (the EULA will make sure of that, can't have people browsing something other than the revenue stream, now can we), and modders will be almost forced to charge for their mods to recoup their losses, so you'd best be ready to pony up the dough if you want to mod your games (and eventually we may be outright forced to change, it woulden't be hard for them to say "if you're making stuff with our assets and we're not getting a cut, then that's theft!").

 

 

To support this just to make a little bit of pocket change today is shortsighted beyond the pale, and is completely ignoring all the benifits that we all currently enjoy from modding beeing free (and especially the gamer on a tight budget). This will end up costing you so much more than it could ever earn you in the long run, i can just about garuentee it.. and yes, that includes the abillity to make and play the kind of mods you actually want to make (the pervy kind! There's no way that's going to fly on the company store).

 

 

Look, i get the temptation, the only thing i got out of the last DDx release was 3 likes on my release post, and then more than a solid months worth of having to do free tech-support for users who refused to read anything before posting. Yeah, this can be a really thankless gig at times, it really can.

But you need to look at the bigger picture here, at all that free modding has given us, and give it a good long hard think before you sell that down the river for a bit of Valve's castoff pocket change.

 

 

 

You want make some dosh making game content? I say look twords the indie game scene, that's where you can do that. It's not gonna be mods, you will only ever make pocket change from premium mods (and support terrible buisness practices in the process). If you want to go pro, then you need to actually go pro.

[Ark of Truth]

Refund a mod and get suspended for 7 days.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730326648879/#p1

[Rayblue]

That's going against the law.

 

 

 

http://www.polygon.com/2015/4/27/8496523/steam-paid-mods-skyrim-opinion-argument
 
"Awesome"? You can have it, as everyone's moving over to GoG.

Those fucking journos... Another great video game crash can't come soon enough. This whole dirty and corrupted clusterfuck needs to be nuked out of existence.

 

Paying more to get better quality is nothing but a capitalist myth. If that was indeed the case, you'd never get a shitass AAA game, as the devs who produce them get a pretty fat paycheck.

 

 

Guys working on custom microprocessors, embedded systems with assembly code do better and tighter quality programs than that for years, and rarely had a mistake.

 

People... well, that naive outsider doesn't have an idea how we do and what we're going through. He sounds as if he got picked to do damage control and tell them this is a nice change to have.

 

We know better than him. Bless Qarl, did not have to witness this disaster.

[torkenstiem]

Refund a mod and get suspended for 7 days.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730326648879/#p1

 

if theyre going that far with it, i can see them makin it so free mods wont be allowed to be added in future game content.

[Guest endgameaddiction]

 

It may not happen today or tomorrow, it may not even happen just yet with FO4 as companies do these pushes slowly, playing the long game. But dollars to donuts, we'll be looking at a future where modders have to pay $120 dollars or more for the game's SDK (because it's an investment now! You can make money with it, so you'd best pay us, suckers!) ontop of having to buy the game and all the official DLC. Mods will be encrypted and cannot be personalized (if it's making them money, they will protect it), they can only be distributed on the company store (the EULA will make sure of that, can't have people browsing something other than the revenue stream, now can we), and modders will be almost forced to charge for their mods to recoup their losses, so you'd best be ready to pony up the dough if you want to mod your games (and eventually we may be outright forced to change, it woulden't be hard for them to say "if you're making stuff with our assets and we're not getting a cut, then that's theft!").

 

 

I've said just about the same. And we seem to be on the very same level here.

 

I just want to point something important out.

 

If GECK and CK becomes a product to sell because it will be a product that makes you money, people are going to start having to question themselves whether they truly want to mod or not.

 

If you want to mod, but do not want paywall, you'll have to sacrifice what ever the price tag will be for those tools so you can only share the work with yourself or some private community.

 

if this tool cost money, will I be able to recover what I spend from not only putting up paywall mods, but mods I have purchased from others? Is this investment really worth it. Notice I said investment. It's coming down to this. Moding as an investment. Not for the joy and pleasure for yourself and others, but as an investment. Which in turn, becomes a hit or miss. A hit if you can create some real quality mods, or a miss if you don't possess enough skill to make something worthwhile. Which draws back to people sharing info and guides.

 

it's going to be a race. And it's going to cause greed and conflicts. It's not going to be that open community it once was. It's going to bring out more egotistical heads when we already see enough of them on Nexus with free mods up as is.

 

You'll probably get a Steam credit if you endorse their mod...