Can we talk about 'Gamergate' ?

[windpl]

 

 

Yeah, I'm a misogynist.  I HATE women.    You don't even know what the word means.  It's just a hot button for you use, like a bigot hurling racial slurs.  I'm going to tell you just like I would tell any man, YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.  We know it and you know it too.

 

 

The best, BEST defense I've seen of GamerGate is from TotalBiscuit, and even that is so full of errors and misinformation, if not outright lies that a correction of it took twice as long as the original article.

You just described the on-line feminist agenda.  And GamerGate doesn't need a 'defense'.

 

To everyone else:

And here we have it.  The thing we've all been dreading.  Some silly little SWJ gets to run in here and beat the war drums.  \o/ YEA! \o/

 

Oh wow...someone who thinks a post that says:

 

As I doubt the loathsome teenaged boys SWJs hate complained about the add, a reasonable conclusion would be man-hating, douche bag, femnazi, SWJs did what they do best; their cunts gaped opened, they invented a controversy and they started bitching about something they didn't agree with.

 

Not that I really care what a pack of fat,ugly women or token hot chicks with a neurotic need to fight for an internet cause agree or disagree with.

isn't absolutely drenched in misgyny, you may need to invest in a dictionary.

 

And yes, gamergate should mount a defense, because people like you are its public image.

 

I get to see women run out of an industry for pointing out sexism...using organized campaigns built around sexism.  Yes, gamergate will point to some women in the industry as proof they aren't against women, but I don't recall those women pointing out sexism...gamergaters are fine with you being whatever, as long as you are what they permit you to be.

 

If you are a transgender gamergater for example, gamergate will celebrate you until you point out that their new buddy, a "journalist" hates transgender people (and, oddly, gamers) and that maybe GG should avoid him, GG will turn like piranhas.

 

But here's the best explanation of gamergate that I've found from a gamergater, but read the bolded comments from the anti-GG side: Everything TotalBiscuit Got Wrong

 

 

Honestly I had to stop reading that(link) bloated load of dung.

 

[Chaos63]

Batman is going to bomb the shit out of this thread.

[GrimReaper]

I sure hope so.

[Kendo 2]

That's probably the point.  By and large, this thread has remained either neutral or leaning slightly to the GG side of things.  What better way to silence it than an SJW skulking in here and stirring things up to get the thread locked?  That's why I'm cutting off my exchange at the knees.  I don't need it, I don't want it, and I'm not going play a part in it.

 

There's nothing wrong with this thread.

[windpl]

That's probably the point.  By and large, this thread has remained either neutral or leaning slightly to the GG side of things.  What better way to silence it than an SJW skulking in here and stirring things up to get the thread locked?  That's why I'm cutting off my exchange at the knees.  I don't need it, I don't want it, and I'm not going play a part in it.

 

There's nothing wrong with this thread.

 

In industry where nipple is a taboo they are finding hive of misogyny and sexism. I would rather say that this industry generates more sexual apathy than anything.

[nonusnomeni]

intelligent person will change his/her opinion more than once according to new evidences and proven facts

intelligent peoples learn and evolve

stupid person...

[GrimReaper]

There's nothing wrong with any thread as long as it's only a circlejerk of likeminded people. However, things tend to get ugly real quick when someone appears and disagrees. There was also nothing inherently wrong with topics about politics, but when it's about ideology and personal agendas (or how I like to call them, crusades) you'll see a seemingly peaceful thread devolve into namecalling, paranoia and conspiracy theories very fast. The same happened with the banned from nexus thread and I guess the same will happen with any threads that are remotely about anything that could make people angry.

[Kendo 2]

You're stating the obvious and as I said this thread was about a somewhat impartial view of what gamergate started as and what it evolved/devolved into.  Now it's about Jayleia and the direction he/she thinks the conversation needs to take so he/she can put a stop to it, because he/she doesn't agree with it.  It wouldn't surprise me in the least if there is a sudden influx of SWJs waving tomahawks and hunting scalps here at LL in the near future.

 

In industry where nipple is a taboo they are finding hive of misogyny and sexism. I would rather say that this industry generates more sexual apathy than anything.

The same thing can be said for sexy print ads, ecchi anime or anything that depicts women in a light that SJWs don't agree with.  People like looking at attractive people...and that is morally WRONG.

[Jayleia]

That's probably the point.  By and large, this thread has remained either neutral or leaning slightly to the GG side of things.  What better way to silence it than an SJW skulking in here and stirring things up to get the thread locked?  That's why I'm cutting off my exchange at the knees.  I don't need it, I don't want it, and I'm not going play a part in it.

 

There's nothing wrong with this thread.

I don't think there's anything wrong with this thread either.  Its fairly tame by my standards, it may be full of things I consider wrong, but that's part of the internet.  There's not enough hours in the day for me to be this guy

[Jayleia]

You're stating the obvious and as I said this thread was about a somewhat impartial view of what gamergate started as and what it evolved/devolved into.  Now it's about Jayleia and the direction he/she thinks the conversation needs to take so he/she can put a stop to it, because he/she doesn't agree with it.  It wouldn't surprise me in the least if there is a sudden influx of SWJs waving tomahawks and hunting scalps here at LL in the near future.

 

The same thing can be said for sexy print ads, ecchi anime or anything that depicts women in a light that SJWs don't agree with.  People like looking at attractive people...and that is morally WRONG.

As I have a number of mods that I'm sure you think that SJWers hate, and don't want my source for them to have any trouble, I've kept all my commentary on this in one thread on this forum only, and thats where its going to stay.

[Yami X]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU7AKL7wOvs

[Guest corespore]

You're stating the obvious and as I said this thread was about a somewhat impartial view of what gamergate started as and what it evolved/devolved into.  Now it's about Jayleia and the direction he/she thinks the conversation needs to take so he/she can put a stop to it, because he/she doesn't agree with it.  It wouldn't surprise me in the least if there is a sudden influx of SWJs waving tomahawks and hunting scalps here at LL in the near future.

 

In industry where nipple is a taboo they are finding hive of misogyny and sexism. I would rather say that this industry generates more sexual apathy than anything.

The same thing can be said for sexy print ads, ecchi anime or anything that depicts women in a light that SJWs don't agree with.  People like looking at attractive people...and that is morally WRONG.

You know that wouldn't be the first time a white-knight ran into a thread and had it shut down by being an outright ass (cough cough, banned from nexus). One good thing is that i never forgot your advice on how to update my ignore list so now my lurking experience is more SJW free and I much prefer it that way. 

[~magic~]

I have to burst your bubbles here.

 

I've been doing research on the issue, and I have found a rather clear picture. I have been able to derive the following facts:

Facts on behalf of the feminist that are obviously correct:

>The feminists are completely right that the game industry ignores women as if they did not exist in the gaming world, and that there is a large number of male gamers who harass, bully, and even threaten women when confront them on the issue.

>Women who speak out about sexism in the video game industry are definitely being harassed and threatened as if they were arguing with the Islamic State.

>The evidence that Zoe Quinn slept with reviewers for positive reception is completely ungrounded and exclusively from an angry ex. 

>The video game industry should definitely stop using an 80's standard of women in culture - and they recognize, especially speakers such as Anita Sarkeesian, that some games are not misogynist or sexist at all, but those are not the majority of games.

>The feminists suggesting that the system be forced into appealing to women are outnumbered, and have been reamed by people such as Sarkeesian. 

 

Facts on behalf of the GamerGate users that are obviously correct:

>There are no review ethics. The gaming review industry is completely corrupted and driven not by honest and objective reviews, but everything from money to the authors to threats.

>It's not women versus men. The #gamergate posts quite clearly include men and women alike, and even feminists.

>They are completely right that the video game industry should not be forced into anything.

>The video game industry should always remain a free art industry - if a video game company wants to alienate its adult gamers and appear to a specific subset of horny teenaged male gamers by filling it with scantily clad sex symbols as women, they should be allowed to.

 

This is quite clearly, contrary to what the media is telling everyone, not a matter of women vs. men and feminism vs. anti-feminism. At its core is an art form debate - the gamergate side is, all things considered, anti-totalitarian, while the feminist side is, all things considered, anti-isoliationist. 

This is definitely a debate that has some serious points on both sides that need consideration - and you guys are not doing that at all.

 

The vast majority of this thread is nothing but random insults and accusations of "white knighting" and "SJW" (skeleton jousting wizards), videos and links to sources that are barely relevant, taken out of context, and/or biased sources directly affected by an obvious confirmation bias. At no point have any of you attempted to construct any kind of considerate and rational argument.

 

My only question now is why this has not been locked yet, as many other threads have been locked for the exact same problem.

[Guest corespore]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU7AKL7wOvs

LOGIC...... it burns...... get it away..... kill it.... kill it with FIRE

 

 

[GrimReaper]

 

You know that wouldn't be the first time a white-knight ran into a thread and had it shut down by being an outright ass (cough cough, banned from nexus). One good thing is that i never forgot your advice on how to update my ignore list so now my lurking experience is more SJW free and I much prefer it that way. 

 

 

That's what I am talking about. "You disagree with me? You SJW-whiteknight scum!" and on the other side is "You disgusting women-hating pig!". It's always the same, it's always everyone else's fault, you're not the one that is wrong, everyone else is, you're not the one who got brainwashed, everyone else is, etc.

 

Well, I have a simple principle about that: The side that uses more buzzwords is most likely the side that is wrong.

[Yami X]

I have to burst your bubbles here.

 

I've been doing research on the issue, and I have found a rather clear picture. I have been able to derive the following facts:

Facts on behalf of the feminist that are obviously correct:

>The feminists are completely right that the game industry ignores women as if they did not exist in the gaming world, and that there is a large number of male gamers who harass, bully, and even threaten women when confront them on the issue.

>Women who speak out about sexism in the video game industry are definitely being harassed and threatened as if they were arguing with the Islamic State.

>The evidence that Zoe Quinn slept with reviewers for positive reception is completely ungrounded and exclusively from an angry ex. 

>The video game industry should definitely stop using an 80's standard of women in culture - and they recognize, especially speakers such as Anita Sarkeesian, that some games are not misogynist or sexist at all, but those are not the majority of games.

>The feminists suggesting that the system be forced into appealing to women are outnumbered, and have been reamed by people such as Sarkeesian. 

 

Facts on behalf of the GamerGate users that are obviously correct:

>There are no review ethics. The gaming review industry is completely corrupted and driven not by honest and objective reviews, but everything from money to the authors to threats.

>It's not women versus men. The #gamergate posts quite clearly include men and women alike, and even feminists.

>They are completely right that the video game industry should not be forced into anything.

>The video game industry should always remain a free art industry - if a video game company wants to alienate its adult gamers and appear to a specific subset of horny teenaged male gamers by filling it with scantily clad sex symbols as women, they should be allowed to.

 

This is quite clearly, contrary to what the media is telling everyone, not a matter of women vs. men and feminism vs. anti-feminism. At its core is an art form debate - the gamergate side is, all things considered, anti-totalitarian, while the feminist side is, all things considered, anti-isoliationist. 

This is definitely a debate that has some serious points on both sides that need consideration - and you guys are not doing that at all.

 

The vast majority of this thread is nothing but random insults and accusations of "white knighting" and "SJW" (skeleton jousting wizards), videos and links to sources that are barely relevant, taken out of context, and/or biased sources directly affected by an obvious confirmation bias. At no point have any of you attempted to construct any kind of considerate and rational argument.

 

My only question now is why this has not been locked yet, as many other threads have been locked for the exact same problem.

 

 

 

Nobody's forcing you to post in the thread just sayin.

 

@corespore

 

 

[Kendo 2]

My only question now is why this has not been locked yet, as many other threads have been locked for the exact same problem.

Hmph.  Why do I get the impression that when you initially posted your request for more information you already had your mind made up the thread needed to be closed?

 

(rhetorical question)

And Yami's right.  If someone doesn't like what's being said, don't read it.  I don't go to the Huffington Post expecting to find anything but what they offer.  How is this thread or any other on LL different? 

[Yami X]

 

 

You know that wouldn't be the first time a white-knight ran into a thread and had it shut down by being an outright ass (cough cough, banned from nexus). One good thing is that i never forgot your advice on how to update my ignore list so now my lurking experience is more SJW free and I much prefer it that way. 

 

 

That's what I am talking about. "You disagree with me? You SJW-whiteknight scum!" and on the other side is "You disgusting women-hating pig!". It's always the same, it's always everyone else's fault, you're not the one that is wrong, everyone else is, you're not the one who got brainwashed, everyone else is, etc.

 

Well, I have a simple principle about that: The side that uses more buzzwords is most likely the side that is wrong.

 

 

So anti-gg is wrong? Well duh that's been a known fact for months.

[windpl]

I have to burst your bubbles here.

 

I've been doing research on the issue, and I have found a rather clear picture. I have been able to derive the following facts:

Facts on behalf of the feminist that are obviously correct:

>The feminists are completely right that the game industry ignores women as if they did not exist in the gaming world, and that there is a large number of male gamers who harass, bully, and even threaten women when confront them on the issue.

 

What?

 

 

>Women who speak out about sexism in the video game industry are definitely being harassed and threatened as if they were arguing with the Islamic State.

 

What#2?

{put here anything for exemple: Gays} that say that there is {{put here anything for exemple: homophobia}  in the video game industry are definitely being harassed and threatened as if they were arguing with the Islamic State.

 

Hint of day: Know your internets

 

>The evidence that Zoe Quinn slept with reviewers for positive reception is completely ungrounded and exclusively from an angry ex.

 

Shitty game is getting press coverage saying that it is good but it is even not close to game? It got this coverage from good of heart?

 

 

>The video game industry should definitely stop using an 80's standard of women in culture - and they recognize, especially speakers such as Anita Sarkeesian, that some games are not misogynist or sexist at all, but those are not the majority of games.

 

Con artist Anita should stop using outdated "feminism study"

 

>The feminists suggesting that the system be forced into appealing to women are outnumbered, and have been reamed by people such as Sarkeesian.

 

Oh yes because people love new prohibitions laws...

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[~magic~]

 

My only question now is why this has not been locked yet, as many other threads have been locked for the exact same problem.

Hmph.  Why do I get the impression that when you initially posted your request for more information you already had your mind made up the thread needed to be closed?

 

(rhetorical question)

And Yami's right.  If someone doesn't like what's being said, don't read it.  I don't go to the Huffington Post expecting to find anything but what they offer.  How is this thread or any other on LL different? 

 

 

I never said the thread needed to be closed - I simply wonder what makes it exempt to the locking of the other threads. 

 

And I did not have my mind made up at all - Over my morning coffee, I dug through a lot of the information from multiple sources and discovered that there is a hell of a lot to the controversy than you guys are discussing.

 

The argument in a pointless argument that the argument is pointless is not a pointless argument.

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

 

My only question now is why this has not been locked yet, as many other threads have been locked for the exact same problem.

 

Because it's a discussion worth having. Sometimes threads turn into a circlejerk, true. Sometimes it's just pointless nonsense. This thread, as argumentative as it has been at times, serves to bounce ideas off one another. Not everyone on the GG side agrees with every point and belief held by other GG members, and the same can be said of the anti-GG side. And obviously both sides are at odds, so what are people supposed to do? Where are we supposed to discuss it? This thread is in General Discussion. There's no special "hot button topics" category. And it makes sense to me to discuss this issue on a forum relating to video games, even more appropriately, one that deals very heavily with the topic of sexual depiction of women in games. And of course there's going to be bias here. It's LoversLab for chrissakes. Not making fun of this site, just stating, due to content, most of the people here are generally on the same page, or at least, the same chapter. Hardcore SJW's on this site make as much sense to me as a fundamentalist evangelical on r/atheism.

 

Also keep in mind that some people won't ever change their minds on things. Regardless of what they believe in or stand for, some people can have number, after fact, after statistic thrown in their face, and they will not give two shits about it. Their concern will be with whatever they already think is right. No one can change anyone else's mind. You can provide evidence and facts, you can persuade and reason with, but in the end, the decision to change their mind about something is up to them and them alone. I believe in reason and logic and evidence, don't get me wrong, but you can scream at people who you think are wrong all day long and it'll be as effective as trying to kick water uphill.

 

I dunno about others, but I notice I have this tendency to automatically want to oppose some people who act in a hostile or confrontational way. Example, most of us have seen that guy in our locales that gets up on a street corner with a megaphone and a bible, and starts preaching about how we need to repent or we'll all burn in hell and accosting random people who want nothing to do with him? Most of us walk right past with the general mindset of "fuck this guy". And I've seen the opposite. I've seen a militant atheist do the exact same shit, spouting about how religion wrecks everything and there's no good point to it. Fucking hell, I'm an atheist and I was thinking "if this bitch even looks my way I'm going to tell her 'I'll pray for you.' " Just because fuck her for being a shithead.

 

This is not to rail on anyone in particular, and I've been trying to remain neutral on this as I believe both sides have legitimate points. I'm just stating why I believe this topic should stay up. Don't take action against the topic for the actions and responses of a few. 

 

EDIT: Also, if it's locked, people can't bring new data or info to the table. A discussion that stagnates, dies.

[DoctaSax]

You know that wouldn't be the first time a white-knight ran into a thread and had it shut down by being an outright ass (cough cough, banned from nexus). One good thing is that i never forgot your advice on how to update my ignore list so now my lurking experience is more SJW free and I much prefer it that way. 

Just because a majority of participants in a thread agree with each other and shit hits the fan when someone else disagrees doesn't make that odd one out guilty of getting the thread shut down. The blame is at the very least shared by people so used to preaching to the choir that any sign of disagreement was met with hostility.  Over time the boundaries of what was acceptable in there got pushed inch by inch until shit went way out of line and any attempt on our part to get people to take it down a notch was completely ignored. What do you expect?

 

If this thread continues down the line of "misogynist" here and "SJW" or "white knight" there, people arguing against what they assume must be the other side's position because they already pigeonholed them with one of those monikers, then it'll get shut down too. And sure, there'll be bitching about us taking sides with whoever, and crying about censorship, and nobody'll look to their own part in it, and everything'll start all over again in some other thread, which against all judgment born from experience we'll keep open a tad too long, again, just to be able to say we gave it a shot. Same old, same old.

 

(On a side note, my entire world was SJW-free until about a month or 2 ago when that acronym became all the rage in here.)

[~magic~]

 

 

My only question now is why this has not been locked yet, as many other threads have been locked for the exact same problem.

 

This is not to rail on anyone in particular, and I've been trying to remain neutral on this as I believe both sides have legitimate points. I'm just stating why I believe this topic should stay up. Don't take action against the topic for the actions and responses of a few. 

 

 

Fair enough. Can you point to a page on the thread with these enlightened responses?

[GrimReaper]

 

 

So anti-gg is wrong? Well duh that's been a known fact for months.

 

 

Dunno. I had the feeling that I've read a lot more SJWs and whiteknight accusations + le funny maymay pictures about just that than 'white cis male scum' or whatever the hardcore tumblerists use these days. But I will admit it depends on where you look, I'm pretty sure on some sites you will read that, on others this.

 

HOWEVER, it's a sad fact that you have to read any of this shit here. Not only in this thread, the paranoia about SJWs lurking around every corner waiting to destroy everything you hold dear spilled into other threads recently. Well, at least into the Dragon Age thread, that is. Dunno about others.

[Chaos63]

 

Dunno. I had the feeling that I've read a lot more SJWs and whiteknight accusations + le funny maymay pictures about just that than 'white cis male scum' or whatever the hardcore tumblerists use these days. But I will admit it depends on where you look, I'm pretty sure on some sites you will read that, on others this.

 

HOWEVER, it's a sad fact that you have to read any of this shit here. Not only in this thread, the paranoia about SJWs lurking around every corner waiting to destroy everything you hold dear spilled into other threads recently. Well, at least into the Dragon Age thread, that is. Dunno about others.

 

For once, you're right.

Video games should be about video games, not social bullshit. If I've learned anything over the years, it's that attentionwhores leave nothing good in their wake and nothing good ever comes from giving them the attention they seek. SJWs, Biodrones, whiteknights, tumblrfags...to hell with them.

I'm going to buy Inquisition, and I'm going to tell everybody in the game who offends me to go fuck themselves. I bet it will be much more productive than arguing in circles with a bunch of people I don't know. It might even be, god forbid...fun.