thesapien Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 Oh Good Grief' date=' is that what you are all hung up on.......Kill vs Harvest? Who the hell cares, as the definition obviously varies according to who's perspective you are coming from (reaper or organic). Gnats could starve on that stinking point. If that is all you are harping on then not seeing the forest for the trees is even more applicable. For crying out loud read post 467 as I can't make myself any clearer without a wall of text that no one would bother to read anyway. [/quote'] I'm not the one hung up on it. Remember, I'm responding to others who raise it. Glad we're over it. Yes, that wall of text of yours... The gist of it seems to be you thought the game would be like this revolutionary thing that played out like real life or something. It was supposed to be light years ahead of ME and ME2, not a continuation with slight changes. Oh, and to be clear, this is also not a big issue to me. I'm responding to you or others who raise it.
gregathit Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 The gist of it seems to be you thought the game would be like this revolutionary thing that played out like real life or something. It was supposed to be light years ahead of ME and ME2' date=' not a continuation with slight changes. [/quote'] Nope, you must have just went TLDR. I expected ME2 with updated graphics. I was fairly happy with the game until the last 15 minutes when all the games previous decisions were stripped away and you were funneled into three stock choices. Read the below: Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?” Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.” Ah, yes.......this is a rather large, ironclad F'up here. Cause there is just an A, B or C choice ending. Anytime you throw this up at folks, be it bioware or the I love the ending, you don't get it crowd, they change the subject. Like the endings or not Casey should have duct tape on his mouth. Go back and play ME1 and ME2 and purposefully choose to kill off everyone that you can. Kill Wrex, don't save your crew, have most of your companions die, let tali be exiled, the geth/quarians kill each other, save or don't save the rachni queen........NONE OF IT MATTERS!!! Just gather what war assets you can, play multiplayer to pump up your readiness percentage and you get the same damn three colors choices of the ending.
thesapien Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 Bambi: Why do you hunt us? Hunter: If we didn't' date=' you'd just over-populate and begin to starve. Bambi: Shouldn't we be able decide our own fate? Hunter: You already have more free will than you deserve. Bambi: Fuck that. I'm going to destroy you. And hunters don't even have "ascension" to counter with, though they could be more honest and just fess up to Bambi. Nonetheless, it is doubtful that any reason will be adequate to Bambi and his kind. They could back and forth all day whilst the battle rages on. [/quote'] ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One, good thing about your goofy analogy.....it does show how stupid bioware's plot line is. They should have stuck with the dark energy plot line! Goofy? Analogy? Interesting. I was using humor but meant it to be... well, I can see we're just wasting time on one another.
gregathit Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 well' date=' I can see we're just wasting time on one another. [/quote'] Finally something I can whole heartily agree with you on
Mars Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 As far as reason would dictate killing a mind is death, a body aka husk used as cannon fodder is not saving anyone, if geth took over the galaxy they would be just as likely to utilize captured humans to fill ranks as digitized corpses. So again the save organics from synthetics by killing them is silly as the machines would behave in a similar calculating manner. Actually maybe they would put a few of each species in a zoo for their amusement or breed the populace for experiments, still a better deal then annihilation from reapers. Thinking about the whole citadel thing and past civilizations, who the hell would come up with something as goofy as a three button "weapon". Why would you even take that path. How about one button that kills reapers, hmmm, crazy I know, but sounds a bit more focused.
gregathit Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 As far as reason would dictate killing a mind is death' date=' a body aka husk used as cannon fodder is not saving anyone, if geth took over the galaxy they would be just as likely to utilize captured humans to fill ranks as digitized corpses. So again the save organics from synthetics by killing them is silly as the machines would behave in a similar calculating manner. Actually maybe they would put a few of each species in a zoo for their amusement or breed the populace for experiments, still a better deal then annihilation from reapers. Thinking about the whole citadel thing and past civilizations, who the hell would come up with something as goofy as a three button "weapon". Why would you even take that path. How about one button that kills reapers, hmmm, crazy I know, but sounds a bit more focused. [/quote'] Yea, I have thought from the get go that the crucible "super weapon" was kinda lame. I would have preferred a straight up fight along the lines of the mechanics used for ME2's suicide run. If you gathered enough war assets then you would be victorious and if not then you risk failing. Would have been more epic in IMHO. After all, if I am remembering correctly, thanks to the prothean's sabotaging the keepers on the citadel, this cycle was the first time the galaxy had ever united its forces to face the reapers head on. If you bought the prothean dlc Javik talks about how the reapers took the citadel and cut off the relay's so the prothean forces were isolated and easy pickings. Would have been pretty kick butt to see krogan's riding the dinosaur deals (if you grabbed that dna sample), along with the geth primes and rachni swarming over the reapers that were on the ground, with the volus bombing fleet provide air cover. The space battle could have been even more epic if you gathered every single ally and upgraded everything. Ah well.......woulda, coulda, shoulda.
GSBmodders Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 imo it would have been far more plausible to adapt thanix cannon's to other ships in the combined fleets and target the reapers weak spots. Hell even without targeting weak spots mass effect 2 showed us that a single ship with an upgraded thanix cannon can ruin a reapers day just seemed kinda lame that suddenly everyone on the normandy including EDI forgot about this
Beyound Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 Came across this and i have to say it is a great read. http://www.themetagames.com/2012/03/why-you-enjoy-art-and-one-problem-with.html P.S it is quite long but it is worth it.
thesapien Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Nope' date=' you must have just went TLDR. I expected ME2 with updated graphics. I was fairly happy with the game until the last 15 minutes when all the games previous decisions were stripped away and you were funneled into three stock choices. Read the below: Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?” Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.” Ah, yes.......this is a rather large, ironclad F'up here. Cause there is just an A, B or C choice ending. Anytime you throw this up at folks, be it bioware or the I love the ending, you don't get it crowd, they change the subject. Like the endings or not Casey should have duct tape on his mouth. Go back and play ME1 and ME2 and purposefully choose to kill off everyone that you can. Kill Wrex, don't save your crew, have most of your companions die, let tali be exiled, the geth/quarians kill each other, save or don't save the rachni queen........NONE OF IT MATTERS!!! Just gather what war assets you can, play multiplayer to pump up your readiness percentage and you get the same damn three colors choices of the ending. The graphics are pretty much identical throughout the series. Same engine. All they really changed were some textures as far as I can tell. There's an enbseries (ENB) that I've tested in all three games. Works the same without any tweaks. That's how identical the engine is from ME to ME3! I've seen that A,B,C picture a few times. I've also seen many quotes as to what BioWare had said about the ending. AngryJoe, who I've linked to before in this thread, has a video of his top ten reasons why the ending sucked, including much of that. It is damning, taken together. He later uploaded another video supporting the indoctrination theory, which I don't quite agree with now either, but it's still good stuff. Lol, maybe BioWare meant multiple endings as in multiple theories. Sorry, that wasn't funny. Seriously though, ME had how many endings? One, unless you do accounting of the lesser things. ME2 was similar except maybe we'll say it had two endings, destroy the base or disable it, so red or blue, A or B. Seems natural ME3 would then have three, no? I'm aware that's not a satisfying answer but am not sure what else we could possibly be expecting. I was really only expecting to beat the Reapers or not. The "multiple endings" always meant to me nothing more than having different characters shown here or there, some dying or surviving, and maybe a LI honeymoon. It's only after replaying the shit out of it or reading about how others played and seeing the truth that it's just a game technically like all others where your choices are kind of an illusion and things aren't so different after all, that the promises of the devs really ring shallow. I'm not sure that's fair. We spend so much time not RP'ing this game, finding how much is actually the same no matter what we do. This kills the experience. My initial reaction to the ending was kind of the same as with ME2. It seemed stupid and didn't jibe with how I thought things should work. In ME2, I wanted harvesting to mean something else and for the Reapers to actually be more like super/meta beings we couldn't grasp. But, now, I'm kind of thinking it goes both ways and Shep just proved the error in their ways. They never were superior, just different with a superiority complex. I also think there is something more to the way ME3 played out. I don't think the ending is all that simple. If you played as someone who united synthetics with organics, what should you choose? Say you never trusted synthetics, Destroy then? What if you're like me and never saw much of a difference between an AI and just an I? One thing I really DID like about the ending is that my Shep was able to demonstrate the whole false dichotomy was a failure and a horrible one. I was so happy to be like, this shit ends now, Destroy... Hoping the one thing the Catalyst said that was true was that only life based on Reaper tech and dark energy would be destroyed and not, for example, EDI. Oh, wait, was EDI based on Reaper tech? Enough to also be destroyed??? You might know more about that dark energy connection.
thesapien Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 well' date=' I can see we're just wasting time on one another. [/quote'] Finally something I can whole heartily agree with you on I will try to be a better poster. I know I can be, uhm, difficult, elitist, and just stupid wrong. I try to even assume the last one about myself. Rereading my posts is often a humbling experience. Just, today, on YouTube, someone responded to an old comment, so I went back to read what I wrote and completely changed my mind. I try to remember and embrace these moments. Lol, not to say I think you've challenged me enough here. But you might.
thesapien Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 imo it would have been far more plausible to adapt thanix cannon's to other ships in the combined fleets and target the reapers weak spots. Hell even without targeting weak spots mass effect 2 showed us that a single ship with an upgraded thanix cannon can ruin a reapers day just seemed kinda lame that suddenly everyone on the normandy including EDI forgot about this I was thinking that, too, during the final battle. So I just added imaginary dialogue, "Wait until they fire first, then dodge and return fire at their weak spot." But then I was also wondering why Shep couldn't dodge during the final run... But these are small things that are never absent in any sci-fi, never. So, me thinks it's unfair to suddenly demand perfect standards in a production this big. Plus, it's more likely that Shep couldn't just strafe and roll away from the beam earlier on in the game. More likely that seeing that red dot means it's too late. You're dead. Still, I wouldn't remove that epic scene for anything. It remains one of my favorite parts of ME3, saying no to Legion, we're not running, I'm going back, and to take down that Reaper like that, still felt epic and awesome. One of my proudest Shep moments.
windpl Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Holy shit. I wonder when there will be full page only with your posts (joke)
thesapien Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 I agree with this but not because the dark energy plot was any good or even better' date=' a lot of what got cut was in many ways tied into the D.E. plot which is why bioware finds themselves in this mess to begin with The DE plot might not have been great but it would not have caused global rage like the current shit has done [/quote'] I couldn't agree more. The dark energy PL wasn't an award winner but it certainly isn't the nonsense that they came up with at the 11th hour. If they had gone that route and provided some closure they could have still had Shepard make the ultimate sacrifice if they were so fixated on the "bitter sweet" concept and very few would have said much. Release the prothean dlc two weeks after launch and that bullet would have been dodged too. Hope someone at bioware is taking notes! EDIT: Hell, with the DE PL they could have made ME4 set a 50 to 100 years later with the assumption that Shepard had destroyed the reapers, the galaxy was rebuilding and a new PC emerges to try to figure out how to resolve the DE problem before time runs out. Handled right it has potential. Not sure who the arch enemy would be or what their motivation would be for interfering. I'm biased against dark energy. It's an issue I have with real theorists though, not in the ME universe.
thesapien Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 and this whole organics vs synthetics was an eleventh hour creation by bioware that may go down as one of the dumbest premises in a major game. I kind of saw this a central theme throughout. It was one that kind of bothered me, actually, and was glad to kill it in the end on my play through. Also, interesting to me that the writers even allowed it be continued if the player agreed with it. But that's a multiple ending, I suppose, whether I like it or not.
thesapien Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Holy shit. I wonder when there will be full page only with your posts (joke) I know you're joking, but are you half serious? Is this bad forum form?
thesapien Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Lies are part of the game marketing. It happens all the time. And there is no difference between BioWare and Bethesda' date=' to mention just two if them. Thus I strongly recommend any dissatisfied folk to exchange the goods or to claim a refund before they run mad by oily shadows, obsessed by gaps in the ME theory. And yes, I've played the series. Is there a problem? It seems to be when religious man is at war, indoctrinated by the own delusions. [/quote'] Apparently, if you say anything that is questionable, then you're accused of lying about ever playing the games, or you're not one of the hardcore fans who loaths the very thing you're supposed to be a fanboy/girl of. Some posters here actually have Mass Effect mouse pads and are the only ones qualified to demand whatever the hell they want of BioWare. But you already know all that. Obviously, I'm just saying this for those over-readers who know who they are. Also, I did say something earlier in this thread about the laughable faith in false advertising and the sad state of those seeking salvation in the form of an attorney. I so hope they are an outspoken minority. It's slightly reminiscent of Skyrim fans who hate on Skyrim over at the Nexus. Seemed like there was always an open thread for Skyrim bashing by those who were playing the game, which seemed really odd to me because I don't usually play or give much thought to games I don't care for.
GSBmodders Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Apparently' date=' if you say anything that is questionable, then you're accused of lying about ever playing the games [/quote'] in his case he had no idea that the reapers harvest organics so that they may create a reaper. It's not like it was some obscure minor plot point that only a die hard fan would ever find and know it was shoved directly in our faces in both me 2 and me 3
thesapien Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Apparently' date=' if you say anything that is questionable, then you're accused of lying about ever playing the games [/quote'] in his case he had no idea that the reapers harvest organics so that they may create a reaper. It's not like it was some obscure minor plot point that only a die hard fan would ever find and know it was shoved directly in our faces in both me 2 and me 3 I was maybe referring to post 462 where you were probably just being rhetorical towards me. I mostly took it that way, so didn't see it as an actual accusation. However, it just seems a common thing, as exampled here. Maybe it's always just like the whole, "Did we play the same game!" when people don't actually mean to imply the question literally and mean it more as an exclamation. I recently said it to someone on YouTube after seeing their video about Skyrim's engine and AI. Turned out they hadn't actually played the game yet because the video was made before its release. So we were both right and wrong. I thought it all funny then, but the Machinima dude didn't seem to see the humor.
GSBmodders Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 I was maybe referring to post 462 where you were probably just being rhetorical towards me. I mostly took it that way' date=' so didn't see it as an actual accusation. However, it just seems a common thing, as exampled here. Maybe it's always just like the whole, "Did we play the same game!" when people don't actually mean to imply the question literally and mean it more as an exclamation. I recently said it to someone on YouTube after seeing their video about Skyrim's engine and AI. Turned out they hadn't actually played the game yet because the video was made before its release. So we were both right and wrong. I thought it all funny then, but the Machinima dude didn't seem to see the humor. [/quote'] I wasnt asking you a serious question when I threw it out there, I know you played or you wouldnt be able to keep up in the conversation. I am curious as to surenas though since that was a pretty big thing to not get and yeah it a common thing, i think of it as something like a inet way of expressing shock or disbelief on a view point
thesapien Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 I wasnt asking you a serious question when I threw it out there' date=' I know you played or you wouldnt be able to keep up in the conversation. I am curious as to surenas though since that was a pretty big thing to not get [/quote'] I just kind of assumed she was taking the extreme skeptical route, not trusting how characters interpreted events and going more by what she could verify herself. Notice that all Reapers look pretty much exactly alike, like something you'd order from a seafood restaurant. Only the supposed human one looks any different. We do actually see races turned into Husks though. So people to Husks makes sense. Protheans, too, only seemed to be re-purposed into Collectors. I'd always assumed this was just a design choice to make it easier for the artists of the game by avoiding making every Reaper unique and that the Husks were just needed ground soldiers, collectors, and engineers on the Citadel. I could be wrong. I dunno. It seems far fetched yet not entirely out of the question that there was something indeed different about the supposed Human Reaper the Collectors were building, why it became part of the Crucible to connect to the Catalyst and a connection to Shep. Anyway, I wouldn't fault someone for following that line. Plus, from something else she said in an earlier post, it sounds like she played the games but didn't re-play them as much as some of us, nor one to return to it until the next release. This could make her way off in ascertaining things or maybe picking up on something intended by the writers that we learned to overlook.
gregathit Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Thesapien, In the codex I think there was some mention that the protheans could not be harvested and made into a reaper (I forget why exactly) thus they were either killed or re-purposed as drones to do tasks for the reapers. Yea, some of the folks each cycle were always turned into husks/re-purposed to be drones for fighting & building as the reapers themselves are too damn big to do that sort of thing. The rest were either killed or harvested. The human reaper was going with the DE plotline as supposedly human dna held the key to fixing the problem before it destroyed the galaxy. I don't know why the human reaper needed to be a different shape than all the others and we will likely never know since they abandoned the DE plot line for the O vs S one. Might have been nothing more than a visual deal..... As far as I am aware the crucible(hardware)/catalyst(software) and the human reaper didn't have any connection at all. Cannon had Shepard destroying the collector base. Did I miss something?
Surenas Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 The idea of transformation of dead organics into new squid-like Reaper starships (and I'm aware of Shep's dialogue on the matter with Anderson on the citadel in the end sequence of ME3) vs organic spare parts and supplies (e.g. implants) or military needs like remote controlled drones for the War of the Worlds is rather too-too, as my grandma might have muttered. Have a nice day in space and don't forget the ammunition for the bug canons... ^^ [video=youtube]
KGRam Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 Holy shit. I wonder when there will be full page only with your posts (joke) that was cool! inline with this site! too bad they did'nt mention nexus some where in there... haha
windpl Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 [video=youtube] Funny :D:D:D:D gamer poop ftw bit off topic sorry but this is something you have to see Fallout 3 [video=youtube] Oblivion [video=youtube] Skyrim [video=youtube] After this movies I was in hipper mood all day ;D
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