Mass Effect 3

[Mars]

Yea, judging Biowares recent actions under EA I expect something utterly idiotic in April.

[GSBmodders]

Yea' date=' judging Biowares recent actions under EA I expect something utterly idiotic in April.

[/quote']

 

I think in April we will see a short announcement making the DLC development official. They will more then likely start a thread asking for fan input on what they would like to see included and to get a basic idea of fan reaction to the planned DLC. Then will simply conclude things with something along the lines of more information to come at a later time.

 

[Nexussfire]

Cue biowares trollface.

[thesapien]

And seriously synthetic forms come to destroy organics so they would not create synthetics who would destroy organics. Brilliant.

Yea' date=' this will be the "took an arrow to the knee" for ME3. Anytime someone tries to debate about the deepness of meanings for the ending I just explode with laughter as that line runs through my mind.

[/quote']

 

That's actually pointed out in-game by Shep to the Catalyst. So, it's even less brilliant for gamers to think that BioWare didn't get it. You probably also forgot the Catalyst's reply when he said no and tried to convince Shep that Reapers don't mean to kill organics; they mean to preserve organics, making them into something better, basically turning them into Reapers. While playing Shep, it's not like you're supposed to suddenly agree with the Reapers on this. My FemShep will do the destroy every time no matter what that brat says.

 

Why would anyone think that what a characters says necessarily reflects what an author believes, especially the main antagonist? Follow your Sheppard.

[Surenas]

The Reapers don't turn organics into Reapers but synthetic zombies, the Husks.

 

Again I'd like to point to the different eyes of Shep depending on the choice made in the end...

 

[thesapien]

Well, putting aside what characters try to convince one another of, it seems Reapers can either turn individuals into Husks and/or one big Reaper to control the Husks. I don't think the latter was an outright lie because we saw the evidence for this with the giant human/reaper being created on the Collector based with the raw materials being the missing colonists.

 

But, yeah, only after the Destroy option do Shep's eyes remain normal and only then does he/she go from slow motion to badass Shep shooting up the device. I'll admit to replaying that part over and over just to see the badassness and feel the goosebumps.

[Nexussfire]

The Reapers don't turn organics into Reapers but synthetic zombies' date=' the Husks.

 

Again I'd like to point to the different eyes of Shep depending on the choice made in the end...

 

[/quote']

 

The Collectors were building a -reaper- with human biomass. I haven't played through my "kept the base" game yet, but I'm pretty sure that is/was exactly what the reapers are doing anyway. Hence their numbers are so many.

 

But their method of preservation is perverse, at least to us, and Shep. The Star-child presence is just some screwy AI trying to play god. For all we know, it could have broken the Crucible and repurposed it to its reaper-esque intentions.

[gregathit]

The Reapers don't turn organics into Reapers but synthetic zombies' date=' the Husks.

[/quote']

 

WRONG, did you even play freaking ME2???? The damn end boss was a massive HUMAN REAPER. Did you read the codex or listen to the comments of ME3? The reapers where pinning people into the cities so they could gather them and create more of themselves. Did you pay attention to the space-god-child? He said they harvest advanced civilizations storing them in REAPER FORM.

[gregathit]

That's actually pointed out in-game by Shep to the Catalyst. So' date=' it's even less brilliant for gamers to think that BioWare didn't get it. You probably also forgot the Catalyst's reply when he said no and tried to convince Shep that Reapers don't mean to kill organics; they mean to preserve organics, making them into something better, basically turning them into Reapers. While playing Shep, it's not like you're supposed to suddenly agree with the Reapers on this.

[/quote']

 

I am getting the sense that with the above comment you are not seeing the forest for the trees. Let's try a different approach:

 

Hiltler....was his crusade to exterminate what he believed to be "lesser humans" right or wrong? Did Hilter have any proof that these so called "lesser races" would bring about the downfall of all other races?

 

Obviously Hitler was both wrong and stupid to think the way he did. His belief was based on a flawed premise and paranoia. The Reapers ARE NO DIFFERENT than Hitler. IT is the SAME damn thing!!!! They have a paranoid belief that there is only one future and it is fixed!!! This a freaking rip off of the Terminator folks. Bioware didn't use an F'ing original thought for anything on the damn ending!

 

Also what proof is there that the reaper form is an improvement on the so called "human condition?" Mass murdering psychopathic behavior sure as hell does not seem to be an improvement to me!

 

Clearly bioware winged it with the technology singularity nonsense and just as clearly they threw up a brick. What is actually surprising is that bioware is all shocked and shaken when the brick shatters the window!!!! WTF did they think was going to happen???

 

[thesapien]

That's actually pointed out in-game by Shep to the Catalyst. So' date=' it's even less brilliant for gamers to think that BioWare didn't get it. You probably also forgot the Catalyst's reply when he said no and tried to convince Shep that Reapers don't mean to kill organics; they mean to preserve organics, making them into something better, basically turning them into Reapers. While playing Shep, it's not like you're supposed to suddenly agree with the Reapers on this. My FemShep will do the destroy every time no matter what that brat says.

[/quote']

 

I am getting the sense that with the above comment you are not seeing the forest for the trees. Let's try a different approach:

 

Hiltler....was his crusade to exterminate what he believed to be "lesser humans" right or wrong? Did Hilter have any proof that these so called "lesser races" would bring about the downfall of all other races?

 

Obviously Hitler was both wrong and stupid to think the way he did. His belief was based on a flawed premise and paranoia. The Reapers ARE NO DIFFERENT than Hitler. IT is the SAME damn thing!!!! They have a paranoid belief that there is only one future and it is fixed!!! This a freaking rip off of the Terminator folks. Bioware didn't use an F'ing original thought for anything on the damn ending!

 

Also what proof is there that the reaper form is an improvement on the so called "human condition?" Mass murdering psychopathic behavior sure as hell does not seem to be an improvement to me!

 

Clearly bioware winged it with the technology singularity nonsense and just as clearly they threw up a brick. What is actually surprising is that bioware is all shocked and shaken when the brick shatters the window!!!! WTF did they think was going to happen???

 

 

1) It's crystal clear in my post above that neither I nor my Shep agree with the Reapers. I noticed you removed part of my post in your quote so I put that part back so it's more clear.

 

2) You're sidestepping. Just admit you were wrong.

 

3) Hitler? Really? What an awkward analogy. No matter since it was all for not, being voided by 1) above.

 

 

Look, it's been regurgitated all over the internet that BioWare was supposedly too stupid to see the nonsense in synthetics killing organics to prevent synthetics from killing organics, you being one of these parroting gamers. I may have been one, too, before actually playing through the ending myself. However, in the freaking game itself, Shep challenges the boy/Catalyst with this exact point. The Catalyst tries to convince Shep that it's not like that, but freaking acknowledge that the writers understood this in their own writing.

 

It seems weird that you'd take what the Catalyst said as what the writers meant to be like the truth and okay. The Catalyst is basically the leader of the Reapers, now handicapped by the Crucible, requiring you to do something. Be careful what he says. Just like the Illusive Man said to you moments ago, "I need you to believe," (if you took a renegade dialogue option asking him why he's wasting time on you and not using the control panel to try to control the Reapers), who is indoctrinated and speaking for the Reapers, the Catalyst just might also want you believing certain things, stuff not in your best interest.

 

[thesapien]

The Reapers don't turn organics into Reapers but synthetic zombies' date=' the Husks.

[/quote']

 

WRONG, did you even play freaking ME2???? The damn end boss was a massive HUMAN REAPER. Did you read the codex or listen to the comments of ME3? The reapers where pinning people into the cities so they could gather them and create more of themselves. Did you pay attention to the space-god-child? He said they harvest advanced civilizations storing them in REAPER FORM.

 

Wow, so quick to jump on someone when they might be wrong, even a little late after two other posters, like a gang or even a mob...

 

Yet, here you just contradicted yourself. You endorse the whole idea that synthetic Reapers kill organics to prevent synthetics from killing organics in one post while here you say Reapers are harvesting organics.

[GSBmodders]

Yet' date=' here you just contradicted yourself. You endorse the whole idea that synthetic Reapers kill organics to prevent synthetics from killing organics in one post while here you say Reapers are harvesting organics.

[/quote']

 

one of the big things in the mass effect story is religion, even legion asked if he had a soul, the answer I gave him after he upgraded himself was yes.

 

once the individual soul is lost you cease to be, the reapers harvesting organics to create reapers destroys the individual soul it is the same thing as killing, additionally in mass effect 3 they are sending bodies up through the beam into the citadel to be processed not living human beings as they did in mass effect 2

 

so even if the mass effect 2 form of harvesting in some unexplained way retained the tens of thousands of souls, the mass effect 3 form of harvesting cannot

 

so yes the reapers are harvesting and killing all at once

 

I am starting to wonder if you even played the game

 

 

[gregathit]

WRONG' date=' did you even play freaking ME2???? The damn end boss was a massive HUMAN REAPER. Did you read the codex or listen to the comments of ME3? The reapers where pinning people into the cities so they could gather them and create more of themselves. Did you pay attention to the space-god-child? He said they harvest advanced civilizations storing them in REAPER FORM.

[/quote']

 

Wow, so quick to jump on someone when they might be wrong, even a little late after two other posters, like a gang or even a mob...

 

Yet, here you just contradicted yourself. You endorse the whole idea that synthetic Reapers kill organics to prevent synthetics from killing organics in one post while here you say Reapers are harvesting organics.

 

I will respond to someone when I choose to, so read whatever you want in that.

 

Um...please point out where I endorse F'ing anything? Didn't happen. I just pointed out what the game already does and says.

 

The whole reapers kill organics to prevent organics from creating synthetics who will wipe out organics argument is just so F'ing retarded a premise that it is right up there with space fairy magic IMHO.

[gregathit]

That's actually pointed out in-game by Shep to the Catalyst. So' date=' it's even less brilliant for gamers to think that BioWare didn't get it. You probably also forgot the Catalyst's reply when he said no and tried to convince Shep that Reapers don't mean to kill organics; they mean to preserve organics, making them into something better, basically turning them into Reapers. While playing Shep, it's not like you're supposed to suddenly agree with the Reapers on this. My FemShep will do the destroy every time no matter what that brat says.

[/quote']

 

I am getting the sense that with the above comment you are not seeing the forest for the trees. Let's try a different approach:

 

Hiltler....was his crusade to exterminate what he believed to be "lesser humans" right or wrong? Did Hilter have any proof that these so called "lesser races" would bring about the downfall of all other races?

 

Obviously Hitler was both wrong and stupid to think the way he did. His belief was based on a flawed premise and paranoia. The Reapers ARE NO DIFFERENT than Hitler. IT is the SAME damn thing!!!! They have a paranoid belief that there is only one future and it is fixed!!! This a freaking rip off of the Terminator folks. Bioware didn't use an F'ing original thought for anything on the damn ending!

 

Also what proof is there that the reaper form is an improvement on the so called "human condition?" Mass murdering psychopathic behavior sure as hell does not seem to be an improvement to me!

 

Clearly bioware winged it with the technology singularity nonsense and just as clearly they threw up a brick. What is actually surprising is that bioware is all shocked and shaken when the brick shatters the window!!!! WTF did they think was going to happen???

 

 

1) It's crystal clear in my post above that neither I nor my Shep agree with the Reapers. I noticed you removed part of my post in your quote so I put that part back so it's more clear.

 

2) You're sidestepping. Just admit you were wrong.

 

3) Hitler? Really? What an awkward analogy. No matter since it was all for not, being voided by 1) above.

 

 

Look, it's been regurgitated all over the internet that BioWare was supposedly too stupid to see the nonsense in synthetics killing organics to prevent synthetics from killing organics, you being one of these parroting gamers. I may have been one, too, before actually playing through the ending myself. However, in the freaking game itself, Shep challenges the boy/Catalyst with this exact point. The Catalyst tries to convince Shep that it's not like that, but freaking acknowledge that the writers understood this in their own writing.

 

It seems weird that you'd take what the Catalyst said as what the writers meant to be like the truth and okay. The Catalyst is basically the leader of the Reapers, now handicapped by the Crucible, requiring you to do something. Be careful what he says. Just like the Illusive Man said to you moments ago, "I need you to believe," (if you took a renegade dialogue option asking him why he's wasting time on you and not using the control panel to try to control the Reapers), who is indoctrinated and speaking for the Reapers, the Catalyst just might also want you believing certain things, stuff not in your best interest.

 

 

Dude you really crack me up. The analogy couldn't be more freaking clear or accurate for the reapers and hitler.

 

I have no problem admitting when I am wrong but you haven't provided proof of anything that would point to me BEING wrong.

 

I never stated anywhere that bioware didn't realize what they were writing. I did state that what they wrote is F'ing incredibly stupid. Whether they can see that what they wrote is stupid is not my concern or within my power to determine, as I can't read minds.

 

I have never personally agreed with anything the guardian said and I have stated repeatedly that there should never have been any space-god-child in the damn game to begin with.

 

Dark energy was supposed to be the crux of things and this whole organics vs synthetics was an eleventh hour creation by bioware that may go down as one of the dumbest premises in a major game.

 

Speaking of side stepping.....did you bother to read the lies bioware told that I included in post 427?

[Surenas]

Lies are part of the game marketing. It happens all the time. And there is no difference between BioWare and Bethesda, to mention just two if them.

Thus I strongly recommend any dissatisfied folk to exchange the goods or to claim a refund before they run mad by oily shadows, obsessed by gaps in the ME theory.

And yes, I've played the series. Is there a problem? It seems to be when religious man is at war, indoctrinated by the own delusions.

[thesapien]

one of the big things in the mass effect story is religion' date=' even legion asked if he had a soul, the answer I gave him after he upgraded himself was yes.

once the individual soul is lost you cease to be, the reapers harvesting organics to create reapers destroys the individual soul it is the same thing as killing, additionally in mass effect 3 they are sending bodies up through the beam into the citadel to be processed not living human beings as they did in mass effect 2

so even if the mass effect 2 form of harvesting in some unexplained way retained the tens of thousands of souls, the mass effect 3 form of harvesting cannot

so yes the reapers are harvesting and killing all at once

I am starting to wonder if you even played the game

[/quote']

You jumped in and lost the context. Didn't read my post a page back, no?

There are posters here and everywhere else claiming that the above is bad writing on BioWare's part. They think it is stupid to explain why the Reapers do what they do because they think it is circular logic. The common poking fun goes something like, "We Reapers are here to kill organics so that other synthetics don't kill organics." They are confusing and meshing the antagonist and protagonist views, using one when it fits them and discarding the other when it doesn't.

 

Edit: See post 463. He just did it again!

[gregathit]

Thesapien,

 

Seriously, give it a rest. You think the ending is meaningful and others do not. Yes, the writing IMHO is insipid and there is nothing that you or anyone else at BSN has presented that can assuage me to see otherwise. The reason I think it is insipid is because it makes the reapers look foolish. How can something that is so advanced not see that it is being manipulated by fear and disillusion?

 

If bioware had stuck with the dark energy plot line it would have painted the reapers as soiled hands "good guys" that were doing awful things to "save" the galaxy. It would have made the choice to destroy or submit to them, a real honest to goodness conundrum. Do you potentially damn the universe to destruction by killing off the reapers or damn the advanced species by allowing the reapers to continue.

 

I do understand neither of us is likely to give ground so let's just agree to disagree.

 

 

Surenas,

 

Both bioware and bethesda have their faults. However, bethesda has paid far more attention to its fan base IMHO and communicates far more often. Bethesda has also done something few companies have in putting out mod tools. Bioware never did this with ME and only token did with DA:O.

 

If you are trying to compare the games then you are wasting your time as the two companies approach things from opposite ends of the spectrum. Bethesda is more sandbox oriented with a little bit of a story thrown in. Bioware is heavily story driven with some fighting thrown in.

 

As to returns, you can't if you bought a digital download. Even if you could, that is still no excuse for the amount of lies told (seriously go check out post 427 - and that is just a small sample). Specific promises were made that influenced people to pre-order the game. I admit to being taken in by the lies so shame on me. It won't happen again, as I will won't be pre-ordering bioware products.

[thesapien]

He said they harvest advanced civilizations storing them in REAPER FORM.

Yet' date=' here you just contradicted yourself. You endorse the whole idea that synthetic Reapers kill organics to prevent synthetics from killing organics in one post while here you say Reapers are harvesting organics.

[/quote']

Um...please point out where I endorse F'ing anything? Didn't happen. I just pointed out what the game already does and says.

The whole reapers kill organics to prevent organics from creating synthetics who will wipe out organics argument is just so F'ing retarded a premise that it is right up there with space fairy magic IMHO.

There. In your own words. See it?

 

Look, the bad guys are supposed to ultimately have bad reasons according to the good guys. Even if there are no absolute good and bad reasons, there ought to be conflicting reasons in the fictional work to, well, explain the conflict. The Reapers believe they are helping organics. Their reasoning may be delusional, however, it's not circular. It may also be entirely self consistent. Who knows, maybe a third party from say another galaxy would judge it correct. Should organics aspire to become godlike Reapers? Hmmm, probably not, at least not what the writers intended. The Reapers are the antagonist, the bad guys; seem like abominations. To us, the Reaper solution is like an ultimate evil and plague on our galaxy. This, I can agree with.

 

Thus, when you talk about harvesting, you are correctly describing the reasoning behind the Reapers. But when you talk about them killing, you are NOT describing their reasoning or reason for being. You're merely pointing to how we see the result. We are supposed to see it as wrong and messed up. That is supposed to motivate your protagonist to do something about it.

[gregathit]

He said they harvest advanced civilizations storing them in REAPER FORM.

Yet' date=' here you just contradicted yourself. You endorse the whole idea that synthetic Reapers kill organics to prevent synthetics from killing organics in one post while here you say Reapers are harvesting organics.

[/quote']

Um...please point out where I endorse F'ing anything? Didn't happen. I just pointed out what the game already does and says.

The whole reapers kill organics to prevent organics from creating synthetics who will wipe out organics argument is just so F'ing retarded a premise that it is right up there with space fairy magic IMHO.

There. In your own words. See it?

 

Look, the bad guys are supposed to ultimately have bad reasons according to the good guys. Even if there are no absolute good and bad reasons, there ought to be conflicting reasons in the fictional work to, well, explain the conflict. The Reapers believe they are helping organics. Their reasoning may be delusional, however, it's not circular. It may also be entirely self consistent. Who knows, maybe a third party from say another galaxy would judge it correct. Should organics aspire to become godlike Reapers? Hmmm, probably not, at least not what the writers intended. The Reapers are the antagonist, the bad guys; seem like abominations. To us, the Reaper solution is like an ultimate evil and plague on our galaxy. This, I can agree with.

 

Thus, when you talk about harvesting, you are correctly describing the reasoning behind the Reapers. But when you talk about them killing, you are NOT describing their reasoning or reason for being. You're merely pointing to how we see the result. We are supposed to see it as wrong and messed up. That is supposed to motivate your protagonist to do something about it.

 

Yes, I see. No, I still think it is stupid. See post 467 on why (hint - original plot line involving dark energy).

[GSBmodders]

You jumped in and lost the context. Didn't read my post a page back' date=' no?

There are posters here and everywhere else claiming that the above is bad writing on BioWare's part. They think it is stupid to explain why the Reapers do what they do because they think it is circular logic. The common poking fun goes something like, "We Reapers are here to kill organics so that other synthetics don't kill organics." They are confusing and meshing the antagonist and protagonist views, using one when it fits them and discarding the other when it doesn't.

 

Edit: See post 463. He just did it again!

[/quote']

 

I know what you are saying, the point I am attempting to drive home to you is that you are nit picking his post and attempting to use that as both a defense and argument it doesn't work and tbh you are capable of putting up a better argument then that

 

 

[thesapien]

Slaughter House 3

 

 

Bambi: Why do you hunt us?

 

Hunter: If we didn't, you'd just over-populate and begin to starve.

 

Bambi: Shouldn't we be able decide our own fate?

 

Hunter: You already have more free will than you deserve.

 

Bambi: Fuck that. I'm going to destroy you.

 

 

And hunters don't even have "ascension" to counter with, though they could be more honest and just fess up to Bambi. Nonetheless, it is doubtful that any reason will be adequate to Bambi and his kind. They could back and forth all day whilst the battle rages on.

 

Gamers playing as Bambi would probably see any justification as lame, anyway, which they ought to. Else, they've been indoctrinated. I mean, really, were you expecting an explanation that you would AGREE with???

[gregathit]

Oh Good Grief, is that what you are all hung up on.......Kill vs Harvest? Who the hell cares, as the definition obviously varies according to who's perspective you are coming from (reaper or organic). Gnats could starve on that stinking point.

If that is all you are harping on then not seeing the forest for the trees is even more applicable. For crying out loud read post 467 as I can't make myself any clearer without a wall of text that no one would bother to read anyway.

 

 

[gregathit]

Bambi: Why do you hunt us?

 

Hunter: If we didn't' date=' you'd just over-populate and begin to starve.

 

Bambi: Shouldn't we be able decide our own fate?

 

Hunter: You already have more free will than you deserve.

 

Bambi: Fuck that. I'm going to destroy you.

 

 

And hunters don't even have "ascension" to counter with, though they could be more honest and just fess up to Bambi. Nonetheless, it is doubtful that any reason will be adequate to Bambi and his kind. They could back and forth all day whilst the battle rages on.

[/quote']

 

 

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

One, good thing about your goofy analogy.....it does show how stupid bioware's plot line is.

 

They should have stuck with the dark energy plot line!

 

[GSBmodders]

They should have stuck with the dark energy plot line!

 

I agree with this but not because the dark energy plot was any good or even better, a lot of what got cut was in many ways tied into the D.E. plot which is why bioware finds themselves in this mess to begin with

 

The DE plot might not have been great but it would not have caused global rage like the current shit hass done

 

 

[gregathit]

I agree with this but not because the dark energy plot was any good or even better' date=' a lot of what got cut was in many ways tied into the D.E. plot which is why bioware finds themselves in this mess to begin with

 

The DE plot might not have been great but it would not have caused global rage like the current shit has done

[/quote']

 

 

I couldn't agree more. The dark energy PL wasn't an award winner but it certainly isn't the nonsense that they came up with at the 11th hour. If they had gone that route and provided some closure they could have still had Shepard make the ultimate sacrifice if they were so fixated on the "bitter sweet" concept and very few would have said much. Release the prothean dlc two weeks after launch and that bullet would have been dodged too. Hope someone at bioware is taking notes!

 

 

EDIT: Hell, with the DE PL they could have made ME4 set a 50 to 100 years later with the assumption that Shepard had destroyed the reapers, the galaxy was rebuilding and a new PC emerges to try to figure out how to resolve the DE problem before time runs out. Handled right it has potential. Not sure who the arch enemy would be or what their motivation would be for interfering.