Mass Effect 3

[Surenas]

Is it possible that the makers have overestimated the average player and his expectations on the plot of ME:3, a plot that is almost disconnected from its predecessors and more confusing than revealing?

 

I ask because I've made such a mistake myself when I wrote the AI for Dungeon Siege: Steelsworld. Though this was in 2003 and I was just fifteen. The siegelet had more dead ends than the Labyrinth of Knossos (the minotaur thingy) and was, although the adult guy responsible for the dialogues had just a dozen English words at hand, a worldwide success according to the downloads for the multiplayer platform... but not according to the comments, they were as negative as now on ME:3. People of those days didn't expect an AI able to outmanoeuvre the average player by adopting human tactics. And my reaction was exactly the one of BioWare of today: Take it or leave it, it's art, meaning: I'll give you the finger if you don't like it the way I do, never ever changing the AI back to the primitive and static (as it is still today, e.g. in the TES series). In the end I've produced even more cheaters that tried to fool the AI in God mode and alike. Apparently that's the way we try to handle the ending of Mass Effect 3, by disconnecting it from the already crippled plot, giving the destruction of Cerberus' headquarter a wide berth and alike...

[thesapien]

I'm starting to settle on a different conclusion; that ME1 and ME2 were never all that great and that ME3 is being compared to a fantasized version of ME that never was.

 

The first ME game I played was ME2. Loved it except for all the little things like Jack taking out Mechs and part of the ending was hard to swallow. I still think the human reaper was a ridiculous idea, offending my intellect. Combat was way fun.

 

I went back and played ME1 after ME2 and enjoyed it for filler, like back story, but was annoyed by much of the dialogue. Half the time I didn't like what my Shep said for any of the options. But it did have a pretty cool story, overall, still. Combat felt broken and no fun for me.

 

My expectations for ME3 were very low after the initial announcements. Earth? Been there, done that in other games. Dealing with war and politics didn't sound like my kind of sci-fi where I prefer exploring and adventuring. But, after playing it, ME3 is my game of choice right now. I can't really get into anything else out right now.

 

So compared to other games, the ME series is great, IMO. But on its own, the whole series is a mixed bag of some cool stuff and lots of ridiculous stuff and is pretty good but not great.

 

For people who thought ME3 sucked or just thought part of the ending sucked, I ask, compared to what? ME1? ME2? What are you comparing it to?

[Surenas]

[snip}

For people who thought ME3 sucked or just thought part of the ending sucked' date= I ask, compared to what? ME1? ME2? What are you comparing it to?[/quote]

Comparing it to the own expectations, that is a coherent, easily understood ending without having read Freud or Nietzsche first. In any case it is a difficult task to sell a dying hero of the serial convincingly, partly indoctrinated by the antagonistic Harbinger or not, in a last unreal vision of self-justification, temptation and final choice by the hero still on the ground in London or not, doesn't actually matter.

 

What matters most is the premise.

Take a look at the transcribed message of Shepard in the intro to ME:3, short before the deadly Reaper beam that destroys the Commando Central,

We will die or we die fighting!, i.e. make your choice! Fine, but what is to choose? It is the way in which one dies and for what.

 

Ore wa, kimi no tame ni koso shini ni iku (Kamikaze movie, Japan 2007) - We die for those we love! Their survival is our last wish, and in fact, that is the very last scene in Mass Effect 3. This makes sense for a dying hero. But wait - fantasy heroes played by you and me don't die, right? But why? Guess we aren't yet ready for the kiss of death. Being dead without any chance to correct that by a restart of the last sequence is not our goal - it isn't funny.

 

Make your choice as long as you are still in control of yourself! And by God, don't choose your love as your squadmate in the final run... ^^

[HanPL]

Well I still can't belive that Bioware fuck up the ending of ME 3 so badly.

If that would be the ending of ME 1 (3 choices to pick up ) then maybe ok.. but ME 3

Seriously ? Deus Ex Rip off..all actions taken in ME 1 + M2 have no impact.

Why the hell I made 8 playthrough in ME 2 with various diffrent choices if none of them matters.

 

Here is full list of why ME 3 Ending have no sense.

 

A Logical Breakdown of Why the Mass Effect 3 Ending Makes No Sense

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview?pli=1

[thesapien]

Oddly, it was a concept/theme that EDI could readily grasp when she tells of prison camp inmates who all died and won a little victory by dying.

 

Have you seen the End Game State in the Raw part of the ME3 Save Editor? One option is "LivedToFightAgain"...

 

 

[Surenas]

How often should Shepard get resurrected from the dead via high-technological Holy Ghost mechanism before it becomes ridiculous even for the most pious Catholic?

[gregathit]

Well I still can't belive that Bioware fuck up the ending of ME 3 so badly.

If that would be the ending of ME 1 (3 choices to pick up ) then maybe ok.. but ME 3

Seriously ? Deus Ex Rip off..all actions taken in ME 1 + M2 have no impact.

Why the hell I made 8 playthrough in ME 2 with various diffrent choices if none of them matters.

 

Here is full list of why ME 3 Ending have no sense.

 

A Logical Breakdown of Why the Mass Effect 3 Ending Makes No Sense

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview?pli=1

 

Yea HanPL, that is a good read. As to why bioware did what they did?

Who really knows....since the ending has been met with such a huge backlash of scorn I am guessing we will never know. The culprits are likely hiding and won't come forth for fear of getting pelted

 

In the end, how or why is largely irrelevant. What matters is what are they going to do (if anything) to fix it. Supposedly the extended cut will do this. Though the fact that they are doing an extended cut for free is admission in and of itself that they screwed things up.

 

[jbezorg]

For people who thought ME3 sucked or just thought part of the ending sucked' date=' I ask, compared to what? ME1? ME2? What are you comparing it to?

[/quote']

 

I didn't think ME3 sucked. I thought it was great. Up until the end.

 

Why do I think the ending sucks? Gaping plot holes and circular logic for the most part. It's been covered. A lot.

 

Post ending content I haven't played at all.

 

Bioware: "Continue Shepherd's Legacy!"

Me: "If you fail to recall Bioware, Shepherd is dead."

Bioware: "Not if you get that one special ending!"

Me: "I didn't get that ending."

Bioware: "Well play again if that bothers you."

Me: "So I'm down to one ending now? Anyway, if I get past that, I'm flying around in the Normandy right?"

Bioware: "Yep! Good 'ole Normandy and her crew!"

Me: "The same Normandy that's a smoking wreck on some jungle planet?"

 

 

Call me cynical but I think we got the ending for ME3 that we did because some suit saw $$$ and thought they could charge for each small piece they hand out.

 

"Liara T'Soni after the Catalysis & Crucible. Only $9.99 for the DLC... "

 

 

[thesapien]

For people who thought ME3 sucked or just thought part of the ending sucked' date=' I ask, compared to what? ME1? ME2? What are you comparing it to?

[/quote']

 

I didn't think ME3 sucked. I thought it was great. Up until the end.

 

Why do I think the ending sucks? Gaping plot holes and circular logic for the most part. It's been covered. A lot.

 

Post ending content I haven't played at all.

 

Bioware: "Continue Shepherd's Legacy!"

Me: "If you fail to recall Bioware, Shepherd is dead."

Bioware: "Not if you get that one special ending!"

Me: "I didn't get that ending."

Bioware: "Well play again if that bothers you."

Me: "So I'm down to one ending now? Anyway, if I get past that, I'm flying around in the Normandy right?"

Bioware: "Yep! Good 'ole Normandy and her crew!"

Me: "The same Normandy that's a smoking wreck on some jungle planet?"

 

 

Call me cynical but I think we got the ending for ME3 that we did because some suit saw $$$ and thought they could charge for each small piece they hand out.

 

"Liara T'Soni after the Catalysis & Crucible. Only $9.99 for the DLC... "

 

 

 

Yeah, it's been covered in this thread, too.

 

1) Plot holes are nothing new to ME. They are rampant throughout the series. Just sticking to ME3, you said you liked the rest of the game, however, the whole game is equally full of holes. So why did you turn off that part of your brain then suddenly turn it back on for the ending. It's no worse than countless other missions. The ending only seems worse because everyone is looking too hard and often finding holes that don't exist on top of the ones that do.

 

2) The infamous circular logic is not introduced in the ending. You hear it first from the downed Reaper on the Quarian's home planet. The BioWare writers fully intended for it to be obviously wrong from the player's POV and is why Shep immediately points this out both times it is stated, first when talking to the dying Reaper and second when talking to the Catalyst. It's not even an option; everyone's Shep will rebuttal this twice in the game. From the antagonist POV, Reapers are a good thing, don't see themselves as killers, and believe they are helping organics ascend and be preserved. From the protagonist POV, one ought to prefer death over having their free will taken away and what Reapers call harvesting is an abomination. Basically, ME3 is giving you the traditional bad guy monologue where the good guy gets to hear their evil reasons. You don't like their reasons? Well, that's why they are bad. At least you get to hear your Shep basically calling them stupid, twice. I give extra kudos to the devs on this one for immersing players to the extent that many gamers felt like Shep's objection was their own objection, so much so that they immediately forget Shep was the first to reword the Reaper's reasoning into a circular counter.

 

3) Your reference to the number of ending tells me you are not comparing it to ME1 or ME2. ME3 is being judged by how well it lives up to marketing hype. Fair enough. Straight up marketing should had just described the game as more of the same with some slight changes. I wonder if such literal advertising would had been received well. Maybe.

 

[thesapien]

Have you seen the End Game State in the Raw part of the ME3 Save Editor? One option is "LivedToFightAgain"...

Forgot to mention that I found this when looking at my first play through in which I rushed to the end and had made some big mistakes, so was presented one "option" (thus, no option) to Destroy. So a minimal play through can give you "LivedToFightAgain". I think this shows that the multiplayer bonus ending is just giving players a bonus scene.

 

[scatcat101]

Yeah... Bioware dropped the ball with ME3 ending. The game was great, the ending however... I really can't think of a 'single' word to describe how terrible it really is.

 

One of my most hated things... Harbingers beam. Seriously? Those beams can cut through any ship in the galaxy with little effort... then we have shepard, surviving the blast with only his armor pretty much melted into crap. Looking at his armor... I'm suprised the same thing didn't happen to his face.

 

I'm not going to make this a giant post and go into detail about what I don't like about the ending... as there are MANY things I don't like that have been listed millions of times throughout the web. But to sum it up in short...

 

Everything 'after' Harbingers beam was terrible writing. Nuff said...

[Henfruit23]

And thus, we have a perfect example of how to not end a popular series. The devs may think they're being "artistic" or "daring" or something else, but the fact of the matter is, nobody likes to have the rug pulled out from under them and the shaggy dog shot when they were expecting a happy ending, especially when the devs have said that such a happy ending is possible. It's a massive disservice, and makes everyone go "Why the hell should I play the other games again if my choices don't matter?"

 

Congrats, BioWare and EA. I'm dead serious when I say I could come up with better motivations for the reapers. At least mine wouldn't involve some of the dumbest insane troll logic ever created.

[GSBmodders]

Bioware is now under even more pressure to deliver with the ending dlc, the better business bureau announced that they believe EA and it's Bioware division to be guilty of false and misleading advertising for mass effect 3.

 

considering that bioware announced that they are working on an ending dlc that may reduce some of the charges but most will still remain even if bioware fixes the ending they would not be able to avoid legal action unless they recall the game or release kalros the mother of all game patches

 

it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out, if EA loses this one there legal nightmare is only beginning

[gregathit]

Bioware is now under even more pressure to deliver with the ending dlc' date=' the better business bureau announced that they believe EA and it's Bioware division to be guilty of false and misleading advertising for mass effect 3.

 

considering that bioware announced that they are working on an ending dlc that may reduce some of the charges but most will still remain even if bioware fixes the ending they would not be able to avoid legal action unless they recall the game or release kalros the mother of all game patches

 

it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out, if EA loses this one there legal nightmare is only beginning

[/quote']

 

 

ROFL!!!! That is freaking hilarious!!!! Being attacked by the BBB has got to be making them sweat bullets now. It really does serve them right as all of the quotes and hype was just more "the cake is a lie" junk! This thing gets uglier every day it seems!

 

 

 

[thesapien]

It was just a blog from a self important someone at BBB, assuring the public, as always, to please continue believing advertising, that the BBB will think for you, blah, blahblah, angry zombies. Here's the "false advertising" in question:

 

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome”.

“Along the way, your choices drive powerful outcomes, including relationships with key characters, the fate of entire civilizations, and even radically different ending scenarios.”

 

Seriously, if you completely bought the above as likely being true in a more literal sense, at face value, then... well, nm.

[gregathit]

So it is completely fine to say "and even radically different ending scenarios" and it be a complete lie? You don't find an issue with this??????

 

It is one thing to describe the game in wildly subjective terms and a completely different thing to say it has features that it really doesn't.

[GSBmodders]

It was just a blog from a self important someone at BBB' date=' assuring the public, as always, to please continue believing advertising, that the BBB will think for you, blah, blahblah, angry zombies. Here's the "false advertising" in question:

 

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome”.

“Along the way, your choices drive powerful outcomes, including relationships with key characters, the fate of entire civilizations, and even radically different ending scenarios.”

 

Seriously, if you completely bought the above as likely being true in a more literal sense, at face value, then... well, nm.

[/quote']

 

I did not see the blog post yet, I did however catch the BBB's complaint which is pending. I assume that it will be "pending" until after bioware releases the DLC

 

So it is completely fine to say "and even radically different ending scenarios" and it be a complete lie? You don't find an issue with this??????

 

It is one thing to describe the game in wildly subjective terms and a completely different thing to say it has features that it really doesn't.

 

in short what he was saying is that bioware shoved it up his ass, it hurt but it has to be good because if he is honest and says that it hurt then it would be bad indeed

 

[thesapien]

So it is completely fine to say "and even radically different ending scenarios" and it be a complete lie? You don't find an issue with this??????

 

It is one thing to describe the game in wildly subjective terms and a completely different thing to say it has features that it really doesn't.

 

What kind of person reads an ad that is full of "wildy subjective terms" and interprets one line as not the same as the rest?

 

What kind of person believes any ad? If a big pharma company can push a harmful drug that increases suicides under the lie that it will bring happiness... I could care less about what a game dev writes on their box.

 

The bigger issue to me is how people have learned to turn off their critical skills when playing as "consumers" instead of mutual traders in a market. A consumer is someone who gives up responsibility as a market participant and hands it over to a corruptible third party to decide for them what is good or bad. A trader is someone who trades work for coin and coin for work, so thinks very carefully about who they trade with. Consumers rely on entities like FDA and BBB. Traders take care of bad traders themselves.

 

I'm also one of those traders who didn't pay much attention to the marketing of ME3 and simply based my expectations on past experience with other BioWare games. ME3 is very similar to ME2, especially, so it seemed more of the same. Thus, I don't feel screwed. It would be a shame to me if those consumer fools out their used a strong armed corrupted system to step in and interfere with my future trade with BioWare.

[thesapien]

 

in short what he was saying is that bioware shoved it up his ass' date=' it hurt but it has to be good because if he is honest and says that it hurt then it would be bad indeed

 

[/quote']

 

Maybe I'm gay then since I seem to really enjoy playing ME3. I played it yesterday, plan on playing some more, today, too.

 

Do really think it is so much worse than ME1 or ME2? To me, ME1 is the worst of the series (not to imply it was a bad game, just comparing), ME2 was better, and ME3 slightly better than 2, maybe.

 

[GSBmodders]

 

in short what he was saying is that bioware shoved it up his ass' date=' it hurt but it has to be good because if he is honest and says that it hurt then it would be bad indeed

 

[/quote']

 

Maybe I'm gay then since I seem to really enjoy playing ME3. I played it yesterday, plan on playing some more, today, too.

 

Do really think it is so much worse than ME1 or ME2? To me, ME1 is the worst of the series (not to imply it was a bad game, just comparing), ME2 was better, and ME3 slightly better than 2, maybe.

 

 

I thought that a lot of me 3 was to over the top dramatic designed to be nothing more then a cheap tear jerker in replace of real substance.

case in point the retarded kid at the start of the game, granted had the voice acting been more believable bioware could have pulled it off. As it is, it only serves as another example of just how far down hill biowares gone since the EA buyout.

 

theres a few other scenes like this as well and I am more then willing to over look them because I really do enjoy the game right up to the end. Hell I dont even think jess chobot did entirely bad bioware blew it with her they should have her falllow the player out on a real mission or two like a real war reporter, or even walking the deck anything but the meh i can live it without it dulled down content that it is

 

even liara felt entirely off kilter in me 3 compared to her me 1 role and lotsb. I love the hell out of her pixels but i almost puked at how she felt entirely forced and robotic at times her one big emotional moment where she seems normal you can only experience if you have that damn javick dlc which thankfully i do

 

the only characters i really thought there was an improvement on in me 3 was legion, grunt and mordin being that two out of three are dead i fucking pray that me 4 features a new cast

[gregathit]

So it is completely fine to say "and even radically different ending scenarios" and it be a complete lie? You don't find an issue with this??????

 

It is one thing to describe the game in wildly subjective terms and a completely different thing to say it has features that it really doesn't.

 

What kind of person reads an ad that is full of "wildy subjective terms" and interprets one line as not the same as the rest?

 

What kind of person believes any ad? If a big pharma company can push a harmful drug that increases suicides under the lie that it will bring happiness... I could care less about what a game dev writes on their box.

 

The bigger issue to me is how people have learned to turn off their critical skills when playing as "consumers" instead of mutual traders in a market. A consumer is someone who gives up responsibility as a market participant and hands it over to a corruptible third party to decide for them what is good or bad. A trader is someone who trades work for coin and coin for work' date=' so thinks very carefully about who they trade with. Consumers rely on entities like FDA and BBB. Traders take care of bad traders themselves.

 

I'm also one of those traders who didn't pay much attention to the marketing of ME3 and simply based my expectations on past experience with other BioWare games. ME3 is very similar to ME2, especially, so it seemed more of the same. Thus, I don't feel screwed. It would be a shame to me if those consumer fools out their used a strong armed corrupted system to step in and interfere with my future trade with BioWare.

[/quote']

 

Your hitting the nail on the head of the problem. Why should anyone not be flamed to death (metaphorically speaking) for outright lies in advertising? Continuing to allow this is to approve of the ole snake oil.

 

I am fine with subjective claims being blown out of proportion (fun, exciting, riveting, dramatic and such) but I am NOT fine with claims to have a vast number of radically different endings when there isn't. This is just one of the quantifiable lies they told. Should they (bioware) get a black mark from the BBB? Yep, they deserve it. Should bioware be sued over the deal? Well I think that is a bit much. Forced to make a full refund to any who want it would suffice (since you aren't likely to get liver poisoning or some such from playing it).

 

This really isn't just limited to bioware but should apply to quite a few other companies out there. Might even put a stop to all the junk email everyone gets on the "make your dick bigger" pills

[scatcat101]

I think the major reason as to why people are pissed, would be the fact that we were promised an ending dependent on what choices we made over the course of the last 2 games. But found out it was quite the opposite, we in fact get the same three endings dependent on your actions in ME3 alone. (War Assets, played a fresh ME3 not continuing off my ME2 and still got the same shit.)

 

The fact that Bioware decided to ignore choices from the past two games to affect the ending of the series is just insulting, not to mention killed the replay value.. because now when you want to go back and replay the games for a different outcome... you can't. It's always the same.

 

Bioware doesn't give as a 'choice' so to speak. They are pretty much asking us what color we like best. Because that's all that differs from these "Three endings"... I see them as the same, only with different color fireworks.

 

And before you say "Not just colors, different outcomes!"... Really? I have yet to witness any REAL outcome other than slightly different team members getting off the crashed Normandy in the end. There is absolutely nothing giving any clue as to what happened as a result of you choosing what you chose.

 

Another thing about the ending, why the hell were the party members that got hit with Harbingers beam with me getting off the Normandy in that cut...? (This and the damn Godchild are what me and many others consider plotholes.)

 

Why introduce another character in the last five minutes of gameplay, not be able to argue his damn circular logic, and not be able to question anything he says? When you go through the last two games, able to question every other character/cutscene when you have to make a choice, then completely destroy that option in the final climactic scene? (Witch is the last of the series, chances are we'll never get a journal entry on that damn Godchild, seeing as how we are just forced to accept what he says in the very few dialogue VO's he has.)

 

Right now... I feel bad for those damned husks I killed to get to the damn port that took me to the Citadel... they were just trying to spare me a terrible headache that is what Bioware calls and "Ending to the series".

 

FYI: When the "ending" raises more questions, rather than give answers and closure... it's not and ending. Just a poorly written story.

 

[gregathit]

Scatcat101, I feel your pain brother....I really do! Hopefully bioware will really fix it but don't hold your breath

[Surenas]

Prologue

We die or we die fighting!

 

The makers of the ending of Mass Effect 3 are doubtlessly inspired by Ambrose Bierce's short story An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge (1890). As a little child I've watched the French film version from the early 60s and even after so many years I vividly recall the irritating and violent shock I had by watching the last one-second (hardly longer lasting) pipe dream of a hanged man during the American Civil War. It took me a fortnight to investigate the title of the film (haven't read the short story) with just two or three intense spots of memory left.

 

Conclusion as it was before: Shepard dies in the run in midst of his comrades, never leaving the ground. If the player is a lucky one he watches Shepard's dying breath (and not the first after a fall to earth from the citadel in orbit) - mission accomplished, that is Harbinger's last temptation withstood, thus neither to be indoctrinated nor to be remote-controlled. To assume that one man alone could ever save the planet (with an untested what-happens-now-machine, the hoped-for super weapon at hand ) is surely bullshit, it is up to all of us to do something according to a successful model, an idol that stands for the human will, and to do it good.

 

Epilogue

You did good, son, you di(e)d good!

 

 

The End

 

 

...or not.

 

The fate of earth and thus of intelligent biological life in the galaxy is still uncertain, even after Shepard's death. The Reaper invasion that has started already at the onset of ME:3 and not scarcely in the last chapter isn't over yet and hasn't proven the synthetics as winners of a war that has seen its heroic role model that calls for imitation by the many to resist the invasion and the holocaust behind, founded in the most incalculable on this planet - the human will.

And not quite automatically the superior military force wins in armed conflicts, esp. not in the long run, and although the respective military always believes and insists in the myth, history knows better, much better.

[jbezorg]

3) Your reference to the number of ending tells me you are not comparing it to ME1 or ME2. ME3 is being judged by how well it lives up to marketing hype. Fair enough. Straight up marketing should had just described the game as more of the same with some slight changes. I wonder if such literal advertising would had been received well. Maybe.

 

Actually' date=' I'd say that one issue is I'd like to continue the story but the ending breaks the narrative. It just does not make sense.

 

Re: Endings

 

Honestly ME1 & 2 really only had one ending. Fight the big baddie at the end. What I think ME1 & 2 did do better is maintain the [u']illusion of choice[/u]. Combat ended the conflict and there wasn't any real choice to enter that conclusion or not. But it requires a lot of input by the player and that maintained the illusion of choice ( and that's all I really wanted ). It also doesn't offer the player much time to think about the holes in the plot.

 

ME3's ending is passive. There's little to do besides to think about the holes in the plot and how limiting your actual choices are thus the illusion of choice is almost impossible to maintain.

 

 

Re: marketing hype

 

I think a majority of people have been desensitized to marketing hype. But that marketing hype needs to resemble the actual product somewhat. For example:

 

Honda sued over mileage in small claims court

 

No. I'm not making a direct correlation. Yes. I know Heather Peters case was a significant investment and a direct correlation to ME is silly. Please keep reading.

 

I don't think Heather Peters would have sued Honda if her car got around 40mpg rather than the 50mpg claimed by Honda's marketing hype because that's still above the average. It's when it fell down into the range of 30mpg, like most every other car in it's class, where she thought she needed to take action. The correlation is the return of expectations generated by marketing hype and as that return decreases the more people feel the need to take some sort of action.

 

We accept being lied to because we know we are being lied to and they know that we know. But there is also an indistinct boundary where marketing hype goes from being acceptable to unacceptable and once people start to think it's unacceptable, it can be like opening a floodgate.

 

You know what? I'm okay with that. Open the floodgate. It's not like Bioware was unaware that the product didn't live up to the marketing hype. They* gambled on how much marketing hype they could pile on. How much their customers would accept. They knew that there was a risk of a backlash the more they piled it on. They miscalculated and are now dealing with that results of that miscalculation.

 

* Now I don't doubt the sincerity of the designer's reaction to this. I place them outside the group responsible for the marketing hype.