Mod X is private but why the anger/crying?

Taskmaster · February 12, 2014

Let's name drop, for example purposes.

1. There's posters like Shocky, who will share pictures of their character or something completely unrelated to what is/was actually private. Just so happens to have some parts in there that are private modifications, but it was not the main focal point or reasoning for posting in the first place. Yeah yeah, I know people will still want every little thing of someone's picture or at least know where it came from, just so they can have some exact replica of what was posted or something - but what was posted, the focus wasn't on what was private, and that's the key.

2. Then there's posters like Aegis, who will share pictures of their character with the focal point being the private works that will not be shared, detailing and describing all of the nooks and crannies - even zooming in on parts and talking about the resolution of said private works. Then in some instances saying they will release, and others saying they're all private.

Keep in mind, that there isn't really anything wrong with all of this I suppose. And, you could just ignore #2 especially, if it's bothering you. There's plenty of stuff EVERYWHERE that is already shared and more than enough for most people's Skyrim experience. Especially when I've bet we've yet to even use 50% of everything we put into the game.

Everyone who has posted pictures of their Skyrim or Skyrim counterpart is definitely guilty of #1, if you even have a unique character or world that you call your own. Unless you're doing something like sharing your own character you've created and the character save slots, then #1 is being done by everyone who is merely showing their Skyrim world to someone else. However, those that do #2, don't just do it one time, they do it repeatedly, and I think that's what drives people nuts. When a reader even sees a post with pictures from someone who does #2 repeatedly, it's almost like unspoken word.

And, in all honesty all of this is harmless. But the thing is that these modding communities, have this aura of feeling entitled to everything they see - gimme gimme gimme. We've all done it at some point, just needs to be kept in check, though. Someone like Aegis who posts up their stuff, they might not have had selfish intentions, but given how the community reacts to such things... for them to repeatedly do it might be saying otherwise.

*pinky6225* · February 12, 2014

It's funny how the OP asked a question, people came and gave there opinions as answers, now other people want to censor those opinions considering them as whining and I guess somehow feeling slighted or offended by the answers given. How does that work? I mean if you don't like the answers given, give your own answer. but telling others there whining isn't adding anything constructive to what is being discussed it only detracts from it. Everyone has differing opinions, why censor them because it doesn't aline with your opinion.

Opinions can be wrong. In fact, they usually are since they tend to not be based on facts or reason. They're generally based on emotions these days. Today's youth are sadly mistaken when they think their opinions hold any weight whatsoever or even matter at all. Everyone needs to learn that opinions aren't on the same footing as facts.

So if someone blurts out emotion-based opinions they should be called on it. Sure, you're allowed to have opinions and you can state them as well. But the act of throwing them out there for the world to hear/read doesn't make them valid.

Interesting opinion you have there.

Who is it that decides whether an opinion is valid? who does the checking to see whether the opinion is based on fact (a lot of facts are actually just widely held opinions) or on emotion?

quin666 · February 13, 2014

I really don't care about modders, but throw my opinion into mix. Almost all private modders have Lex Luthor syndrome!

Have so much power make Skyrim modding community better place, but guess what? Refuse do it. You don't have give away

private mods. You could help convert random stuff you know. Fill in empty slots dammit! Whole Victoria Secret Oblivion catalog

nobody bother convert. I don't care what you do but do something. Letting talent go waste dumbest thing any modder can do.

In Final Fantasy Online was lvl75 help power level group lvl12 without healer three hours. Friend brother wanted laptop badly,

but didn't have cash. I gave up 150$ on spot. I can relate to being weak and having nothing you know. If I have power put smile

on people faces then I do it in heartbeat. Private modders do nothing are worst type modders. Deep down I respect everybody

wishes, so if don't want give back to community then fine by me. Still, you just another Lex Luthor can't see big picture.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rixFgLXHonk[/media]

*jbezorg* · February 13, 2014

I really don't care about modders, but throw my opinion into mix. Almost all private modders have Lex Luthor syndrome!

Have so much power make Skyrim modding community better place, but guess what? Refuse do it. You don't have give away

private mods. You could help convert random stuff you know. Fill in empty slots dammit! Whole Victoria Secret Oblivion catalog

nobody bother convert. I don't care what you do but do something. Letting talent go waste dumbest thing any modder can do.

In Final Fantasy Online was lvl75 help power level group lvl12 without healer three hours. Friend brother wanted laptop badly,

but didn't have cash. I gave up 150$ on spot. I can relate to being weak and having nothing you know. If I have power put smile

on people faces then I do it in heartbeat. Private modders do nothing are worst type modders. Deep down I respect everybody

wishes, so if don't want give back to community then fine by me. Still, you just another Lex Luthor can't see big picture.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rixFgLXHonk[/media]

I wouldn't say private modders have a Lex Luthor syndrome.

4 things:

Putting out a quest mod also means that you become tech-support for it. Often the modder finds themselves stumbling through and discovering, the hard way, a software development process, product lifecycle, etc.. Supporting a public mod and it's current features can take more time than planning & developing new features for it.
Putting out item mods also means that your work will be redistributed without your knowledge or consent. I use to post my artwork online and sometimes sell 3d models. Preventing redistribution was a big concern and often a topic with other artists. Every trick, every solution we'd come up with would be bypassed. The inevitable conclusion was that the only way to prevent it was to not post it and make it public.
People can be assholes. It's inevitable that when you release a mod to the public that you will have to deal with people that, when given both anonymity and an audience, become fuckwads. I think LL is a great community because I really haven't has to deal with this issue that much. Other modders in other communities may not have been so lucky and that may have influenced their decision about public modding.
Despite #1, 2 & 3, There can be, as you've pointed out, great joy is helping and letting other's also enjoy what you've made. To put out something and see the torrent of ideas come from people. That some of those people who've enjoyed your mod will be inspired to start creating mods themselves.

Of course the possibility still exists that a private modder doesn't distribute their mods because they are assholes ( An complete inverse of #3 ). But in general I would say private modders enjoy modding. They are excited and proud about their work and want to share it. But the net result is that they see more bad in releasing mods to the public than good and are just trying to mitigate some of the negative aspects of releasing public mods by either not doing it or limiting it to a small group of people for their own reasons.

itt1968 · February 13, 2014

Once an opinion is based on facts, it is no longer an opinion, it becomes a hypothesis and since there is only the one fact in this whole thread. ie; "So and so modder created said mod" and all of us agree on that, therefor everything else is just our opinion.... though there are some really nice points on both sides of the argument, they are not based on facts, its my opinion, against her opinion that stands against his opinion OR any combination of the 3. I truly wish I new why said modder doesn't want to share his mod, threads like this could be a possibility, the endless hounding to make it into CBBE/UNP another one, but what ever said modders reasons are for keeping it private, do we really think cursing at him/her and hounding them constantly is going to change there minds? I'm under the opinion that it would only piss him/her off even more... thankfully, as I have already stated more than once, this is a very giving, modding community and I must add, with some really good modders... some awesome work comes out of the lab and most every modder here will help just about anyone get started or help them through a tuff spot in there mod... I've seen it a hundred times if not more and I must say that I am proud to be a member of this wonderful community... My Opinion of course lol

itt1968 · February 13, 2014

There is no VALID excuse to be heard in this thread, its all a matter of opinion/personal preference.

I don't agree. No matter what the modded/created virtual object is it is entirely up to the creator to decide whether or not to share it. That's it. That's a fact. Is it not?

The only time opinion comes into play is when someone who didn't create said digital object feels they should be entitled to have it, too. That is what is baseless and doesn't deserve to be addressed with anything but ridicule.

Do we really live in an age where people feel offended when they're not allowed to have some virtual digital clothing to dress up a nonexistent character with? Even when they have no claim on this non-existent object?

Call me old. But this is pretty ridiculous when you look at it through "reality goggles".

I don't think you read my entire post....we do have the same opinion

Rokabur · February 13, 2014

Maybe some people get their kicks over making a mod, releasing screenshots and videos around the web and then keeping it private so that nobody but themselves can ever use it?

Redflyingmonkey · February 13, 2014

That is a flip side of this that I have never thought of. So if I made a cool mod and never released it then "other guy" say it and copied it I would be slightly ticked yes. I think that "Other guy" should at least put in the description "inspired by mod x" but if he still did the work to get it there, I couldn't really be very angry... I don't think. I would be mad if it was copied and no mention of me was included.

Couldn't help but laugh.

I imagined this disturbingly vivid scene of a 10 year old kid making a science project for school, and inviting his friend to check it out, knowing perfectly that this friend didn't even start his project yet since he had no idea what to do. So the bragging little dickhead shows him the stuff, brags like a dickhead, then sends his friend off without even trying to help him out a bit with his own project.

Then a week later, in science class, not only the friend of the bragging dickhead comes with an identical yet better model than him, but also the rest of the class. Turns out the friend was inspired by the dickhead's stuff, and decided to make the same shit then share it with his own friends, who then shared it with their own until everyone had it.

I'm sorry and call me an asshole if you want, but the face the bragging brat made, seeing all that, was in my imagination pretty damn hilarious.

Morale of the story : if you absolutely don't want anyone to copy your science project, don't show it to your friends.

xenic · February 13, 2014

I really don't care about modders, but throw my opinion into mix. Almost all private modders have Lex Luthor syndrome!

Have so much power make Skyrim modding community better place, but guess what? Refuse do it. You don't have give away

private mods. You could help convert random stuff you know. Fill in empty slots dammit! Whole Victoria Secret Oblivion catalog

nobody bother convert. I don't care what you do but do something. Letting talent go waste dumbest thing any modder can do.

In Final Fantasy Online was lvl75 help power level group lvl12 without healer three hours. Friend brother wanted laptop badly,

but didn't have cash. I gave up 150$ on spot. I can relate to being weak and having nothing you know. If I have power put smile

on people faces then I do it in heartbeat. Private modders do nothing are worst type modders. Deep down I respect everybody

wishes, so if don't want give back to community then fine by me. Still, you just another Lex Luthor can't see big picture.

I wouldn't say private modders have a Lex Luthor syndrome.

4 things:

Putting out a quest mod also means that you become tech-support for it. Often the modder finds themselves stumbling through and discovering, the hard way, a software development process, product lifecycle, etc.. Supporting a public mod and it's current features can take more time than planning & developing new features for it.

Putting out item mods also means that your work will be redistributed without your knowledge or consent. I use to post my artwork online and sometimes sell 3d models. Preventing redistribution was a big concern and often a topic with other artists. Every trick, every solution we'd come up with would be bypassed. The inevitable conclusion was that the only way to prevent it was to not post it and make it public.

People can be assholes. It's inevitable that when you release a mod to the public that you will have to deal with people that, when given both anonymity and an audience, become fuckwads. I think LL is a great community because I really haven't has to deal with this issue that much. Other modders in other communities may not have been so lucky and that may have influenced their decision about public modding.

Despite #1, 2 & 3, There can be, as you've pointed out, great joy is helping and letting other's also enjoy what you've made. To put out something and see the torrent of ideas come from people. That some of those people who've enjoyed your mod will be inspired to start creating mods themselves.

Of course the possibility still exists that a private modder doesn't distribute their mods because they are assholes ( An complete inverse of #3 ). But in general I would say private modders enjoy modding. They are excited and proud about their work and want to share it. But the net result is that they see more bad in releasing mods to the public than good and are just trying to mitigate some of the negative aspects of releasing public mods by either not doing it or limiting it to a small group of people for their own reasons.

Great points on both sides. I think there are many people that can help improve things and it is a loss when they don't. However, not everyone has the time to build a mod or retexture something. I agree that it would be amazing to see tons of oblivion mods or Fallout mods brought into Skyrim but again, modders are real people with real schedules and lives. It's an easy thing to forget about someone else having a life when you are waiting on a mod to be released. I'm guilty of that myself recently.

Also, if every member of the community put out 1 thing, whether it be a mod, a save, a retexture, or an idea, I think our community would get even better.

xenic · February 13, 2014

That is a flip side of this that I have never thought of. So if I made a cool mod and never released it then "other guy" say it and copied it I would be slightly ticked yes. I think that "Other guy" should at least put in the description "inspired by mod x" but if he still did the work to get it there, I couldn't really be very angry... I don't think. I would be mad if it was copied and no mention of me was included.

Couldn't help but laugh.

I imagined this disturbingly vivid scene of a 10 year old kid making a science project for school, and inviting his friend to check it out, knowing perfectly that this friend didn't even start his project yet since he had no idea what to do. So the bragging little dickhead shows him the stuff, brags like a dickhead, then sends his friend off without even trying to help him out a bit with his own project.

Then a week later, in science class, not only the friend of the bragging dickhead comes with an identical yet better model than him, but also the rest of the class. Turns out the friend was inspired by the dickhead's stuff, and decided to make the same shit then share it with his own friends, who then shared it with their own until everyone had it.

I'm sorry and call me an asshole if you want, but the face the bragging brat made, seeing all that, was in my imagination pretty damn hilarious.

Morale of the story : if you absolutely don't want anyone to copy your science project, don't show it to your friends.

Showing it to friends is one thing, showing it everyone is different. I kind of picture it like this:

I have a million dollar idea(mod). I go down to the bar (Nexus) and show it everyone (screenshots and forums). Then a couple weeks later the same thing is on the top files with tons of likes and endorsements. I get 0 credit. So, I'm saying the exact thing you said... oops.

Mebrilia · February 13, 2014

There is also to tell there is someone that indeed have private mods but works also on mod for users..

I can't thank enough Shocky for his or hers Sevenbase Conversions.... The triss armor is what i was looking for!

Redflyingmonkey · February 13, 2014

Showing it to friends is one thing, showing it everyone is different. I kind of picture it like this:

I have a million dollar idea(mod). I go down to the bar (Nexus) and show it everyone (screenshots and forums). Then a couple weeks later the same thing is on the top files with tons of likes and endorsements. I get 0 credit. So, I'm saying the exact thing you said... oops.

Your metaphor collapses on itself. Would you show a million dollar idea to everyone in a bar ?

*pinky6225* · February 13, 2014

There is no VALID excuse to be heard in this thread, its all a matter of opinion/personal preference.

I don't agree. No matter what the modded/created virtual object is it is entirely up to the creator to decide whether or not to share it. That's it. That's a fact. Is it not?

The only time opinion comes into play is when someone who didn't create said digital object feels they should be entitled to have it, too. That is what is baseless and doesn't deserve to be addressed with anything but ridicule.

Do we really live in an age where people feel offended when they're not allowed to have some virtual digital clothing to dress up a nonexistent character with? Even when they have no claim on this non-existent object?

Call me old. But this is pretty ridiculous when you look at it through "reality goggles".

Reality goggles don't work though

If we were talking about me sharing a CD/Book/DVD/Car/girlfriend with you then while you are in the possession of it the original owner can not use it which is a downside to sharing.

With electronic information stored on PC's this is not the case so applying a "reality" definition of sharing when we are talking about something that doesn't comply with the other rules of reality doesn't work (imo)

gvman3670 · February 13, 2014

Interesting opinion you have there.

Who is it that decides whether an opinion is valid? who does the checking to see whether the opinion is based on fact (a lot of facts are actually just widely held opinions) or on emotion?

Are you telling me you can't tell when something is based on fact or fantasy? Do you really believe anything that is factual is really just a widely held opinion?

If so I am forced to question your ability, or at least your training, to think critically. There is a major shortage of critical thinkers in Western Culture today, though. It's definitely something we need to work on.

As it goes, in this discussion there is just one "fact" that needs to be known. And that's the fact that nobody has to share any of their creations. Knowing this it just stands to reason that griping about a nonexistent object not being shared is completely asinine and childish.

gvman3670 · February 13, 2014

Reality goggles don't work though

If we were talking about me sharing a CD/Book/DVD/Car/girlfriend with you then while you are in the possession of it the original owner can not use it which is a downside to sharing.

With electronic information stored on PC's this is not the case so applying a "reality" definition of sharing when we are talking about something that doesn't comply with the other rules of reality doesn't work (imo)

The time, effort and skill used to create these digital objects is very much real and tangible. And valuable to most people. Even ideas are valuable to the point a price can be placed on them, which is why we have a patent process.

Intellectual property.

*pinky6225* · February 13, 2014

Interesting opinion you have there.

Who is it that decides whether an opinion is valid? who does the checking to see whether the opinion is based on fact (a lot of facts are actually just widely held opinions) or on emotion?

Are you telling me you can't tell when something is based on fact or fantasy? Do you really believe anything that is factual is really just a widely held opinion?

If so I am forced to question your ability, or at least your training, to think critically. There is a major shortage of critical thinkers in Western Culture today, though. It's definitely something we need to work on.

As it goes, in this discussion there is just one "fact" that needs to be known. And that's the fact that nobody has to share any of their creations. Knowing this it just stands to reason that griping about a nonexistent object not being shared is completely asinine and childish.

I'm telling you by the very definition of the word opinion that it doesn't have to be based on fact (which is why i said you have an interesting opinion)

Whether something is fact or fantasy - this would assume i already have pre-knowledge of everything anybody could possibly hold an opinion on and i'm rather confident in saying that is factually impossible (well unless you happen to be religious then you can believe there is one entity(s) that can)

While i do agree nobody has to share nobody also has to show and considering the meaning of the word private showing off something you wish to keep private does appear to conflict (some critical thinking for you)

Thank you for taking the time to judge my abilities though. I'd like to say i've done the same but i'm far to polite to try and infer your personality and knowledge from a few lines on the internet

limbo · February 14, 2014

Reality goggles don't work though

If we were talking about me sharing a CD/Book/DVD/Car/girlfriend with you then while you are in the possession of it the original owner can not use it which is a downside to sharing.

With electronic information stored on PC's this is not the case so applying a "reality" definition of sharing when we are talking about something that doesn't comply with the other rules of reality doesn't work (imo)

The time, effort and skill used to create these digital objects is very much real and tangible. And valuable to most people. Even ideas are valuable to the point a price can be placed on them, which is why we have a patent process.

Intellectual property.

intellectual property. with an engine and tools supplied by another party... dont know that it would stand up in court. a lot of sims3 modders thought the same thing only to find out that ea owned anything they produced

Kamen Rider Kuuga · February 14, 2014

I hope some day a modder tries to bring somebody to court over a mod, if just to see how hard the entire justice system laughs at them.

LuffMeister · February 14, 2014

I hope some day a modder tries to bring somebody to court over a mod, if just to see how hard the entire justice system laughs at them.

The sad thing is that it's far more likely for a public modder to have issues with *intellectual property* than a private one. The more people have access to a mod, the more likely a problem will occur. Private mod = less problems.

And, some modders might just want their character to be unique, and releasing skin/outfit would make the character less unique.

Example:

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/50814/?

Great outfit, but just look in the imageshare section, and you see picture after picture of people showing their character wearing that outfit, so the outfit is no longer unique, and some modders don't want that, and I don't think it's that hard to understand.

limbo · February 14, 2014

Great outfit, but just look in the imageshare section, and you see picture after picture of people showing their character wearing that outfit, so the outfit is no longer unique, and some modders don't want that, and I don't think it's that hard to understand.

and chicks hate that. dudes not so much. we just say "heeey. nice shirt, you got taste. buy ya a beer?"

chicks on the other hand get all bent outta shape "humph.. she's wearing the same dress as me! we have to go home NOW!"

Arizona_Steve · February 14, 2014

Used to bother me just a little bit, but then I found out that a lot of the private armor mods out there were bought from radiosity - since those people paid real money for the models, I can completely understand them not sharing.

Rayblue · February 14, 2014

Actually, didn't like grabbing supposedly unique armor such as the one above when I'd rather take a particular UNP armor pack that allows for much mix-and-matching.

Bloodfang · February 14, 2014

Honestly, when I see loads of pictures on the Nexus, with a very nice outfit or something, and then the uploader wait for someone to comment and ask the question that everyone got on their mind : what's this mod?

Then, proud of his pic, uploader says : "it's a private mod"

I move on because honestly I can't find anything better (while trying to be lore-friendly) than Hunting Grounds Outfit. But still I understand why people would be dissapointed. What's the point of showcasing your mod if you don't plan to share it? Just keep that thing to yourself, that's that.

And please don't come with the excuse of the artist, Art is very different from mods. And even if you don't buy the Art piece itself, the artist shares it to people by showing it. Buying Art pieces implies that you are rich, most common folks aren't. DFSL summed up well the thing.

On the other hand, the purpose of a mod is clearly to be... used. I fail to see the point of uploading "private" things and act like a jerk saying : it's miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine !!!! my precious !!!!!GOLLUM !! GOLLUM !!

Just look at the author of the Hunting Grounds Outfit : he made the mod for himself and then shared. I thought that's what modders liked, to get feedback about people using their work and how they enjoy it. I'm no modder but I think it's very rewarding to be the author of a popular mod.

For those who thinks it's about having a "unique" character, lol, honestly who really cares about virtual divas? One day or another they'll be wiped for TES VI

Phygnos · February 14, 2014

It just seems inefficient to me to keep any modding private, save for copywrite-infringing or other illegal things.

If I spent 5 hours modding _, that time spent increases in "value" as more people make use of it.

Great outfit, but just look in the imageshare section, and you see picture after picture of people showing their character wearing that outfit, so the outfit is no longer unique, and some modders don't want that, and I don't think it's that hard to understand.

That is utterly insane, but there are a lot of insane people out there so I suppose it makes sense.

I didn't think it would exist outside of MMORPGs, but this probably does indeed play a major role.

February 14, 2014

This thread is becoming more and more pointless every day.

All valid points were pretty much made and now it's only going back and forth between complaining and trying to justify it.

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