Massively votes TESO be biggest FLOP!

[ElectricSheep]

I can't say I don't admire your self-awareness.

 

As for me; after investing hundreds of hours in Morrowind I was hyped for Oblivion like a little fangirl, I WANTED to love this game. And I did. For the first few hours. Then it hit me like a massive pile of shit that fell from the sky: the game was shallow and deprived of anything of interest. So I started checking the reviews and came to the conclusion that it had to be my fault, because the game was praised as if it was the second coming of gaming (yeah, back then it was not taken for granted that the professional reviews ain't worth shit anymore). It was rather annoying, and the players new to the franchise who were blindly defending the game rendered any discussion frustrating. Eventually I came across the RPG Codex review and it was the only review that voiced my feelings about the game.

[Hal3023]

I can only agree with Bree's statement to ESO:
 

 

 

Bree: I think ESO will launch just fine and collect a lot of box and sub fees initially, but long-term, it's in trouble. MMORPG fans are sick of story-driven single-player themepark MMOs, console fans will be mystified by subs and a three-way PvP endgame, and Elder Scrolls fans will wander back to the lore and mods of their solo sandboxes. I'm truly not sure for whom the game is intended, and I say that as a TES fanatic.

I am not a TES fanatic (at least I wouldn't call myself that / I didn't play Arena and Daggerfall), but I love its lore.
What I think about ESO: Lore + MMO? I wanna see that work out... 
I want story, and I want it my way.

That's why I think it will fail to keep the users playing.

[Coopervane]

Personally, i just don't understand what the point of TESO is. Who's it for?

 

TES fans? I don't see how. 

Everything about TESO indicates that it is a WoW-style themepark MMO, with no instancing to speak of and a big focus on it's open PvP. In essence, a WoW PvP server with a TES paintjob. You basically coulden't get any further away from what TES games are than that (not unless you fully jumped genres and made it a 2D-sidescrolling puzzlegame or something).

The only thing i can see in TESO vids that makes me go "Yup, that sure looks familiar" outside of the art assets, is that it has the combat system (though further simplified) and UI design of Skyrim. But those are easilly the worst parts of Skyrim! There's a reason why SKYUI is as popular as it is, and i do belive we've all seen combat systems that are far superiour to what Skyrim had in every respect.

And this is not even getting into the issues of lore, and i do belive a lot of old-time fans will have some issues there.

It might be possible to make an MMO that feels and plays a lot like a TES game, but TESO isen't even attempting to do so from what i can tell, that was not it's intent. But then why make it part of the TES series?

 

So it's for WoW players then? Maybe that was the hope, but it's misguided and doomed to fail.

WoW players aren't going to quit WoW in favour of this, or any other WoW-clone (and they are not going to dual-account, nobody wants to pay 2 subfee's a month). They have way to much invested in their WoW accounts already, it's what they are nice and compfortable with. It's not going to happen for TESO any more than it did for all the other failed WoW-clones that have come out over the years.

What will someday de-throne WoW as the king of MMO's is going to be a wholly different game, something that reinvents what an MMO is and can do, and which becomes the next big thing. It's not going to be a clone, all a clone will ever get is table scraps from the WoW feast.

 

It's for the general MMO playing audience then?

Surely not, most MMO players who aren't still hung up on WoW, will be the first to tell you that they are burned out and just sick of the whole WoW-style thing by now. They are aching for something that's genuinly different and new, and TESO does not look to be that at all.

This is why SWTOR failed. WoW players stuck with WoW, and the rest said "too much like WoW, can't be arsed".

 

 

Am i missing something here? Really, who is this made for?

 

It's not going to play like a TES game, so i'm really not sure this thing will resonate at all with the TES playerbase (i like me some TES, but i'm really not sure i'd enjoy this, and they are asking how much to play it!?). And even if we ignore the whole TES angle and look at it only as a new MMO release, well, it looks like it's making all the same mistakes that ended up breaking the neck of most MMO releases in recent memory. It looks poised to walk in SWTOL's footsteps, and i can't really see what the selling point is supposed to be here? I can see the line and the sinker, but where's the hook? Where's my big juicy worm?

 

I am genuinly asking, and if anyone feels you can clue me in on what the big deal is supposed to be here, then feel free to do so. I'd love to get excited for this, but all i see is a WoW-clone in TES makeup with Skyrims clunky and barebones combat system, and that it'll apparently be open PvP, and my experiance with that is the whole game degenerates rapidly into one big brainless death-match game (and a bad and imbalanced one at that).

 

 

I'll give them credit where it's due though: The character design in TESO looks way better than Skyrim, especially the Elven races are a vast improvement.

[Jormungandr]

I'll give them credit where it's due though: The character design in TESO looks way better than Skyrim, especially the Elven races are a vast improvement.

 

You didn't participate in any of the betas then.

 

If you did, you must love those brickstone cheeks bethesda makes in EVERY damn game.

 

Personally i'm extremly disappointed by the character customization.

 

Let's just say.. even the vanilla racemenu has more options...

[Coopervane]

 

 

You didn't participate in any of the betas then.

 

If you did, you must love those brickstone cheeks bethesda makes in EVERY damn game.

 

Personally i'm extremly disappointed by the character customization.

 

Let's just say.. even the vanilla racemenu has more options...

 

Indeed i've not had Beta access, so i'm only speaking from the screenshot's and video content i've seen (which is not much, and the striking lack of promotion for this thing seems like a red flag). Also, do read that as "for a TES game", as that context is rather important.

 

But from what i've seen, yes, the Elves of TESO look far better than the ones in Skyrim, and the Khajiit look more Lionesque than house-cat, which i'd also call an improvement. 

 

 

But i take it then that the char customization is very basic? That's certainly not good news..

 

[OccultHorizon]

No single player game is going to translate extremely well to an MMO. Anyone who understands the game mechanics of MMO's and single player games should know this, and not judge ESO as a failure because of that fact. It has many differences from MMO's like WoW and Rift, GW2 etc...but an MMO is still going to have the basic design that others have. To expect something revolutionary, when a new MMO comes out is like expecting a utopian society to appear with a new President. Just not going to happen most likely. TES will still continue to make single player games, ESO is just a stab at the MMO market and a very good one. I can not comment on my experience with ESO from Beta testing recently, but it has promise to be a slightly better MMO than the grind of games like WoW, where all Blizzard is after is continued subscription fees while making you wait forever to get past the dailies to get any real rewards, and a continuous imbalance in PvP that they keep adjusting over the past several years. Wait for the game to actually release to the public before making judgements. Like a new dish at a restaurant, you just don't truly know if your going to like it till you taste it.  Relax people. ESO is not going to replace TES single player games. They have already stated that. ESO is just another way to play in that universe. Simple as that. If your dead against it, then don't buy it. But don't bash something you know little about till it is on the market. And the character customization is not horrible. It isn't as advanced as some programs like 3DSV2. Which has mouse control to alter face appearances, but it does have sliders. Though I will agree that it could use some more customization adjustments, but the characters look pretty good to me.

[Coopervane]

Ok OccultHorizon, i'll bite: You describe TESO as "very good", why do you feel that is?

 

I am asking out of genuine curiosity, i would love for there to be a new and good TES game that i could be playing, i don't want TESO to suck, i gain nothing from that, but would stand to gain a whole lot if it's fun to play (i'd gain a new fun game to play, can't hate that).

 

But sadly, most of the feedback i've seen about this game has been mixed or even outright negative (and i'm not talking about the extremes of the obvious fanboys and haters, those people i tend to ignore), with the brunt of it beeing along the lines of "meh, it's ok i suppose, but nothing we haven't seen and done before" and "it feels a lot like WoW, and i got bored of WoW years ago".

 

And i have to say, looking at what little content has been put out about the game so far, i'm getting that feeling aswell, looks a lot like WoW, just with a Skyrim style combat system added on (and i do not considder Skyrim's combat system anything to write home about).

 

 

I'm not beeing facetious when i say "who's this for? Where's the hook?", that is my honest reaction to what i'm seeing, and since Zenimax isen't showing us much of anything, that isen't much and it's not answering my questions.

 

So why do you feel it's good? Maybe you can show me where the hook is.

[ElectricSheep]

It's good because I don't want it to suck; some ppl just kick and bite not to admit that a game is not all that good, because that would mean they had to face their own disappointment. 

[Koko.Hekmatyar]

I've been in the beta and I can't say it is a game I would want to spend $15 a month on. They would have to do a lot of improvements before I would deem it worthy of such a fee.

 

P.s. Two examples would be one the character creation sucks and two the combat system is a complete joke. It makes Skyrim's combat system look like the bloody apex of all gaming combat systems.

[Guest Mogie56]

Has anyone seen the size difference between a WoW character body mesh and a Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind character body mesh?

A wow character mesh in 3dsmax is the size of a Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind characters big toe in height. not a whole lot you can do in the realm of customization

given the tiny scale, I doubt ESO characters are much bigger if they want to put millions of players on 1 mega server. better character customization then what wow has would be a big improvement as far as a MMO goes. (I did not participate in any eso beta/s) so I can only go by what I've seen so far. The characters in the gameplay videos even as bad as some say they look, look better then anything wow has ever produced. many MMO character designs are akin to that of Unreal Tournament 1999. (Very low poly) it's all in the texture work making pointy boobs and butts look rounded from all angles.

[Cynical Misanthrope]

AngryJoe 2nd impressions: This time he is checking out the PvP

 

[ElectricSheep]

I hate that guy.

[Captain Cobra]

Whats wrong with Seven Dollar Sanchez?

[itt1968]

The main reason I've never got into console gaming apply's to online games as well... If it cant be modded, I'm not messing with it. Neverwinter Nights had an online community, but it was more of a personal feel than a massive open world... I kinda miss the days of the old PvP servers lol... showing my age!

[BAB PEEG]

i cry every tiem.

[Trykz]

 

You can't really say you love something unless you can accept and acknowledge its flaws. And boy was Oblivion flawed. But I still played the hell out of it, enjoyed every minute. Just like Skyrim.

 

All I's sayin' here is, if people are gonna be elitist about ESO, they need to set an accurate standard for it, and Oblivion is not that standard.

 

 

For me, the standards of what an MMO should be will ALWAYS be EverQuest (especially pre-Luclin era), and Anarchy Online.

 

Early EQ was as unforgiving as it gets. Actions had consequences that made you truly fear dying. When you died, you re-spawned at your bind point, while ALL of your gear and inventory remained on your corpse. If you didn't retrieve it within a set period of time, it "poofed" with your corpse and was lost. Forever. And on a really bad day, you could also lose a level and any skills you raised since your last bind 

 

In Anarchy Online, when you died you lost any earned skill points you accrued since you last save, and were sent back to the last reclaim terminal you saved your progress at. It's character skill customization was quite impressive for it's time. You feared dying, but it wasn't quite as intense as in EQ.

 

Todays MMOs pamper players too much with dumbed down scripted encounters that only utilize ONE set of repetitive circumstances. There's no "thinking on your feet" type variables that prevent players from just learning the encounter's script, and then placing that encounter on regular weekly "farm status". They're all just loot pinatas designed to satisfy the masses of instant gratification hungry, self centered idiots with no real desire to take on something truly challenging.

 

Old school MMO gamers call them "WoW kiddies".

 

Trykz

[BAB PEEG]

Man O man I loved AO so much. Also UO was great in it's time.

[...0...]

'99 Asheron's call server Darktide FFA full loot.

2001 PSO on the SEGA Dreamcast.

2002 Asheron's call 2 Darktide

2003 Lineage 2

2004 few weeks WoW beta terible mmo hated themeparks even more.

2009 Darkfall 1

2012 Guildwars 2 My first themepark retail launch hehe (dissapointment all over i quit after couple of months)

 

Now mainly hop between DayZ standalone and Skyrim.

 

Played many solo games over the years

 

First Elder Scroll Morrowind 2002 one of best so far.

 

Finally downloading Thief now soon be released on steam

[maybenexttime]

they should have included an offline mode

[Tensu_Makadi]

i cry every tiem.

 

What the F... is this for/from? I'm guessing it had something to do with youtube's copyright rules or something similar but couldn't hear half of it.

[Trykz]

'99 Asheron's call server Darktide FFA full loot.

2001 PSO on the SEGA Dreamcast.

2002 Asheron's call 2 Darktide

2003 Lineage 2

2004 few weeks WoW beta terible mmo hated themeparks even more.

2009 Darkfall 1

2012 Guildwars 2 My first themepark hehe (dissapointment all over i quit after couple of months)

 

Now mainly hop between DayZ standalone and Skyrim.

 

Played many solo games over the years

 

First Elder Scroll Morrowind 2002 one of best so far.

 

Finally downloading Thief now soon be released on steam

 

Please report back after some Thief playtime. Really digging the looks of that game.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Trykz

[...0...]

 

'99 Asheron's call server Darktide FFA full loot.

2001 PSO on the SEGA Dreamcast.

2002 Asheron's call 2 Darktide

2003 Lineage 2

2004 few weeks WoW beta terible mmo hated themeparks even more.

2009 Darkfall 1

2012 Guildwars 2 My first themepark hehe (dissapointment all over i quit after couple of months)

 

Now mainly hop between DayZ standalone and Skyrim.

 

Played many solo games over the years

 

First Elder Scroll Morrowind 2002 one of best so far.

 

Finally downloading Thief now soon be released on steam

 

Please report back after some Thief playtime. Really digging the looks of that game.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Trykz

 

 

I will

 

[FallenWarrior]

 

i cry every tiem.

 

What the F... is this for/from? I'm guessing it had something to do with youtube's copyright rules or something similar but couldn't hear half of it.

 

 

Yeah, it's about the youtube's copyright system

 

[Degeneracy]

Back on Topic,  As a person who played the Closed Beta.  The game is rather boring.  Is it Skyrim or an Elder Scrolls game.  No.  In any Elder Scrolls game I played my main attack is the most damaging(outside a magic user which technically you use spells in your main/offhand..but as a enchanted staff) and when playing a hunter style class my bow and arrow did no damage next to one early ability you get which 1, 2 shots mobs.  It is turning into a Tera style where the main attack is damaging but does not compare to the skill's you get.  You can also join(last i played) all the Guilds you want(Companion/Mages) and get their respective skills.  Companion was Intimidate, and Mages Persuasion.  Some quests require either of these to finish.  Leveling up you get skill points where you put into abilities(passive/active) which you level up the abilities by using them.  Loot is handled rather badly, as items found in the world as chests(lots and lots of these around) most will be empty(until their loot respawns) and the items you receive are random.  Perhaps when a trade market in live is present this can be okay, but if you want to be somewhat self reliant then you must have a crafter).

 

That being said it doesn't feel to fluid and to top it all off it is due to be released soon.  When I played last(Jan/Feb)they had just added in some voice overs.  Quest givers do talk and such, however when I played, only half of them were actually in the game.  Not to mention the map was generic.  That being said their is a lot to do which may cause stuff to be left out.  The game feels very early 2000.  Not a 2014 game.

 

In the end I wanted to play ESO but after playing I just don't feel like I would have to play.  Watch Angry Joe as he has a lot of good points.  Even if you hate em.  Perhaps I'm burned out of they Elder Scrolls Series(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Whitemn/NewBitmapImage_zps713fbf42.png)  But I just am gonna pass on this game.

[BAB PEEG]

I loved combat in tera since most of it, unless you were using spells and such, wasn't a lockon fest. But man, for a game that had open world pvp it sure was pointless, and even discouraged! I will always love my Elin Berzerker.