Vithiss Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 @Valadarius I can't begin to imagine the work - complications, frustrations, and so on - that goes into actually making a mod like CD (and many others), so you get nothing but kudos from me for your end. As noted, this wouldn't be the first time that i couldn't get a great mod to work when no one else was having issues. it's a bit disappointing, on the other hand, I played Skyrim on a console for a long time, so having a modded game at all is heavenly goodness. And I will keep tracking this one, and trying now and then to see if I can get it to work, cause it seems very neat. That said, as a vague suggestion for developing future stuff rpside for the mod... I would like to see a mod, and this one seems a reasonably good candidate, that un-hitches (b)D/s from S&M or BDSM a bit. Not all tops are sadists, not all bottoms are masochists etc etc (there is a lot of potential hair-splitting with these sorts of distinctions I know and I don't mean to open that whole can of worms). Regardless, thanks for all your work and attentions.
Findout Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 The hardest part of making the Dom scenes and such is that the player is the one in control of the situation where the Sub scenes they are not. It is far easier to make scenes and such where the player is controlled as you set the pace for everything. Dom scenes have to be structured so the player has the feeling of being in control of the situation so the scenes need parts where the player initiates actions and controls the npc's. To do that the scenes need to be much more flexible and dynamic than scenes where you do things to the player and can be difficult to pull off. Probably the mods that come closes to this are the large follower mods where the npc's react to what the player does, they are not built as a scene so much as a behavior is built for them. The first section is an Edit to my unposted second section. After reading your post I decided to post both. If the PC were to become a Dominate PC, using already exsiting Skyrim framework couldn't some of the following ideas be used? The idea of taking over the bussiness seems less likely from what you have explained about what takes to make it work. Though recieving profits from the shop or talking to an assitant would give the PC choices that have to be made of day to day shop operational descions while Master is away, this could simulate the PC is running the show. When Master returns to check on things a quest starts for the PC to be juded for pass or fail. The quest I suggest below could also work if the PC fails against a Dominate npc the master will demote PC to slave again (loosing all buffs and items rewards) and the victor dominate npc would be relocated to another shop master has setup. So no shop managing or shop slaves actually pass hands. Yes it would be good to see more dominate progression. What if the PC takes over Masters's shop and the Master goes to another land like Solstheim, Morrowind, Elswey and etc to convene with the Domination Counsel or investiage new methods with equal Masters, find new submisives to crop. The master would return checking on the PC to make sure their dominance score has not dropped and if score is high enough get a reward. Also the PC could learn spells so the PC can now dominate NPC (a bandit that took advantage of PC, any NPC, Followers and quest npc). The spells would equip devices to the NPC (automaticaly to avoid inventory issues), each spell would have paticular devices assigned to it. Now the PC can take them back to the pc's home or back to the shop and put them in one of the new groud additions you have planed Veladarius. Note:PC home/or wing for a ground additions would work too. Other spells could render the npc to become petrified with fear or confusion, cause them to loose control of there limbs, choke, gag, ecstasy, pain all with sound effects & animations. The spells could be useful during combat or any other situation the PC gets into even the training of couples and slaves. Not every NPC sees the PC as dominate, now the PC can show them what's what's and the NPC gets a taste of PC's dominance. In addition special buff devices for the Dominate PC to use such as whips and special armor/clothing enchantments to enchance the Dominate PC. Moving Dominance into a magical realm would open up new branches to the Dominate/Submissive Skyrim World. A quest were another dominate NPC has issues with pc, wants to take the PC's/Masters prize submisives, take over the shop or take the PC's current position with the Master could be interesting.
crudo Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Veladarius, I know I've given you plenty of suggestions recently but after being put in the cage for being in a poor relation with the Master and taking too long on my latest delivery something occurred to me. I was able to escape the armbinder and use the lockpicks to get out of the cage as well as remove most of my devices. I had about thirty lockpicks on me already so add that to the ten in the cage and it's quite a few. Anyway, at this point, thinking like my character the first thought that goes through my mind is, "There is no way in hell I'm going back to that bitch and her shop, I'm free.". On the other hand, if the PC is put into the cage overnight and all it's gear was kept by the Master then there is reason to return. In addition to the above, if the PC decides not to return to the Master after failing a delivery or taking too long to retrieve a delivery or even standing up the Tavish assist too many times I think it would be fun if Herron came after the PC to bring back to the shop for discipline. One other note, 24 hours is almost too generous a time span to make a delivery. Even with sleeping nine hours at night I can usually make it unless I get distracted. Riften and Winterhold are a bit tougher but the rest are fairly easy.
arkanae Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Some suggestions, based on own tastes: - What about setting Master´s gender, male/female, depending on the PC sexuality set on Sexlab MCM ? (mine/me is heterosexual, I am not much into lesbian games, but...hey, I am a slave, I can´t choose ! xD ) Hard to do. SL sexuality is dynamic, and can change deoending on how much you have sex with each gender. Sio, what to do if it changes? Besides, a Master is a Master... gender barely comes into consideration - About the delivery radiant works, it could be nice that, when you have made a number of works for Master (say, 50...), you wont need to wear the chastity belt anymore for the delivery job: she already trust you. Nononono!!!! Takes away half the fun, especially with a Tormentir plug in you! - About the relation with Master, it could be nice if she suddenly puts a collar on you (force collaring) and say "now, you´re mine", triggered by the relationship status. ^^ Yes! That, very much! Also, a Leash Plug when Min finishes implementing them... and some Zaz furniture for (forced) bed at night. - And from then on, you could be sold to Tavish when he comes for the devices, as you are just another thing on sale. - Auction for the player, once she is a real slave And random service as a display stand until sold off.
arkanae Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 - Some Zaz furniture sprinkled around the place would be sweet. Perhaps when you're 'tucked into bed' for the 3rd punishment scene, you can be locked into one of those in the cell instead of lain on the ground. As I was asking above... yes, and please please make the endebted or punished player spend the nights in those... - Ask to be a display model. Periodically a customer shows up. Each customer is looking for a random item or items, and asks a question. If they see you wearing it, they purchase it and it is removed from you. If you get the question right they purchase an extra item. If you get nothing right, they complain to master about bad service and poor selection, if you get everything right they are so excited they buy everything off you, giftwrap themselves, and present themselves to Master as a new slave(temporarily, anyway). You're released after you've made a set number of sales. Not sure about release after a given number of sales... but the rest would be a fantastic idea.
Veladarius Posted June 12, 2014 Author Posted June 12, 2014 @Valadarius I can't begin to imagine the work - complications, frustrations, and so on - that goes into actually making a mod like CD (and many others), so you get nothing but kudos from me for your end. As noted, this wouldn't be the first time that i couldn't get a great mod to work when no one else was having issues. it's a bit disappointing, on the other hand, I played Skyrim on a console for a long time, so having a modded game at all is heavenly goodness. And I will keep tracking this one, and trying now and then to see if I can get it to work, cause it seems very neat. That said, as a vague suggestion for developing future stuff rpside for the mod... I would like to see a mod, and this one seems a reasonably good candidate, that un-hitches (b)D/s from S&M or BDSM a bit. Not all tops are sadists, not all bottoms are masochists etc etc (there is a lot of potential hair-splitting with these sorts of distinctions I know and I don't mean to open that whole can of worms). Regardless, thanks for all your work and attentions. I agree with you quite a bit on this, I see far too much fetish stuff that just ends in inflicting pain on someone so a lot of people who are not familiar with bondage and such thinks that is all there is to it. In the end I am hoping to gradually have the player build a relationship of sorts with the Master, whether it is with the player being submissive to her or becoming someone she sees more as an equal I want to portray the relationship aspect of things if I can. The hardest part of making the Dom scenes and such is that the player is the one in control of the situation where the Sub scenes they are not. It is far easier to make scenes and such where the player is controlled as you set the pace for everything. Dom scenes have to be structured so the player has the feeling of being in control of the situation so the scenes need parts where the player initiates actions and controls the npc's. To do that the scenes need to be much more flexible and dynamic than scenes where you do things to the player and can be difficult to pull off. Probably the mods that come closes to this are the large follower mods where the npc's react to what the player does, they are not built as a scene so much as a behavior is built for them. The first section is an Edit to my unposted second section. After reading your post I decided to post both. If the PC were to become a Dominate PC, using already exsiting Skyrim framework couldn't some of the following ideas be used? The idea of taking over the bussiness seems less likely from what you have explained about what takes to make it work. Though recieving profits from the shop or talking to an assitant would give the PC choices that have to be made of day to day shop operational descions while Master is away, this could simulate the PC is running the show. When Master returns to check on things a quest starts for the PC to be juded for pass or fail. The quest I suggest below could also work if the PC fails against a Dominate npc the master will demote PC to slave again (loosing all buffs and items rewards) and the victor dominate npc would be relocated to another shop master has setup. So no shop managing or shop slaves actually pass hands. Yes it would be good to see more dominate progression. What if the PC takes over Masters's shop and the Master goes to another land like Solstheim, Morrowind, Elswey and etc to convene with the Domination Counsel or investiage new methods with equal Masters, find new submisives to crop. The master would return checking on the PC to make sure their dominance score has not dropped and if score is high enough get a reward. Also the PC could learn spells so the PC can now dominate NPC (a bandit that took advantage of PC, any NPC, Followers and quest npc). The spells would equip devices to the NPC (automaticaly to avoid inventory issues), each spell would have paticular devices assigned to it. Now the PC can take them back to the pc's home or back to the shop and put them in one of the new groud additions you have planed Veladarius. Note:PC home/or wing for a ground additions would work too. Other spells could render the npc to become petrified with fear or confusion, cause them to loose control of there limbs, choke, gag, ecstasy, pain all with sound effects & animations. The spells could be useful during combat or any other situation the PC gets into even the training of couples and slaves. Not every NPC sees the PC as dominate, now the PC can show them what's what's and the NPC gets a taste of PC's dominance. In addition special buff devices for the Dominate PC to use such as whips and special armor/clothing enchantments to enchance the Dominate PC. Moving Dominance into a magical realm would open up new branches to the Dominate/Submissive Skyrim World. A quest were another dominate NPC has issues with pc, wants to take the PC's/Masters prize submisives, take over the shop or take the PC's current position with the Master could be interesting. The thing I am considering as the ultimate prize for doms will be to end up with Tavish's estate and business as their own. It would not be a quick or easy thing to do for the player (and not an easy thing to build) but would make for a rather interesting player home. A spell to bind an opponent would be interesting, either as a ranged or touch spell. It would probably have a save similar to others based upon level but shouldn't be too difficult to make. Veladarius, I know I've given you plenty of suggestions recently but after being put in the cage for being in a poor relation with the Master and taking too long on my latest delivery something occurred to me. I was able to escape the armbinder and use the lockpicks to get out of the cage as well as remove most of my devices. I had about thirty lockpicks on me already so add that to the ten in the cage and it's quite a few. Anyway, at this point, thinking like my character the first thought that goes through my mind is, "There is no way in hell I'm going back to that bitch and her shop, I'm free.". On the other hand, if the PC is put into the cage overnight and all it's gear was kept by the Master then there is reason to return. In addition to the above, if the PC decides not to return to the Master after failing a delivery or taking too long to retrieve a delivery or even standing up the Tavish assist too many times I think it would be fun if Herron came after the PC to bring back to the shop for discipline. One other note, 24 hours is almost too generous a time span to make a delivery. Even with sleeping nine hours at night I can usually make it unless I get distracted. Riften and Winterhold are a bit tougher but the rest are fairly easy. I think the reasons that people would go back are 1- she pays well. I mean, what do you get for killing the dragon outside of Whiterun, an ax with a minor enchantment and made thane. 2- once people get a taste of it they want more, and for some people the punishment is better than the reward. I have thought about having the player retrieved if they are really bad though it may cause some issues with some quests. I had considered setting a specific time depending on the location but there are times where you get to the customer but can't make the delivery as they have locked themselves in for the night and if you break in they won't take the delivery from you. I figure 24 hours is enough to keep you somewhat motivated to make it in a timely fashion and the reward would encourage handling it faster.
Guest Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 The master would return checking on the PC to make sure their dominance score has not dropped and if score is high enough get a reward. thats some kind of semidom. i think if you are playing dom you should do it right, having a master over me that would be a situation that i could not acept.
sashalag Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Some suggestions, based on own tastes: - What about setting Master´s gender, male/female, depending on the PC sexuality set on Sexlab MCM ? (mine/me is heterosexual, I am not much into lesbian games, but...hey, I am a slave, I can´t choose ! xD ) Hard to do. SL sexuality is dynamic, and can change deoending on how much you have sex with each gender. Sio, what to do if it changes? Besides, a Master is a Master... gender barely comes into consideration Well, maybe a bit hard to do, yes. Then an option like in Prison Overhaul like the "chance for female jailer", or MCM option for gender of the master, like in Sanguine Debauchery that lets you choose which gender will enslave you. If not for the actual Master, maybe for the ones buying you in a (hypothetical) auction. After all, this is a game, we players really want to have both control and fun, so more options are always better for having a nice gaming experience (I hate 100% blindfold, so I put it at 50%, I wanna see what´s happening, is a VIDEO game, you know... ) But after all, is Veladarius mod, I will love the mod anyway he will updated it ( is the first time in a long time that I really enjoy a mod )
TheOzoneHole Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Just throwing out some ideas for possible expansion. I have seen some good ideas. 1. One was the gag, but would be a problem with dragons after you have Dragonrend. Guess you can fight without it. 2. Wish there was more randomness to the Customer Assist slave girls selections and there being a sort of demerit for choosing something different from them. Maybe with a punishment scene for to many wrong guesses, performed by the slave girl? 3. If you blow the Customer Assist show up, besides the punishment, she keeps you in the shop as a model until the next appointment. Also could work for ticking Tavish off, but would have to be a special belt not letting you leave. You sleep in the basement with the other slaves. 4. Another Customer or Customers maybe every few days or random dates in between. 5. All items being able to be chosen by Tavish's girls including slave boots, even the harsher plugs. They come to see different items, they should be able to choose them. 6. Like the idea about being loaned out. Could be a punishment for blowing tasks. 7. Like the idea of a uniform, maid or slave. Maybe something different depending on your Ranking. I know it would have to be available in CBBE and UPN. I am sure you are getting lots of ideas and it keeps expanding all the time. Thanks. Random customers in the shop would be nice, but I understand that those can be tricky to do. Something about keeping the NPC in a specific empty cell (game cell not prison cell) until the AI package runs, and such like. The loaned out idea is a nice one, and rather than it being something done as punishment, have it be a more advanced Submissive quest; i.e. once the player has done 5-10 delivery quests, and submissive rank is topped out (or bottomed out perhaps) then the loan would be the more difficult and advanced quest. Player is equipped with a selection of items, and told to go see a specific person for a set period of time. That person has the key(s) and will release them after the time is up. Maybe something like: When a player bottoms out or tops out on the sub/dom scale, Master offers the player the opportunity to be trained formally as a slave or as a master respectively. The catch, for dom players, is that the training for future masters is identical to the training of slaves. The rationale could be that great masters, like our Master, or {gasp} Tavish (our Master's teacher!!), or Herran (!?) (nearing the end of his training period), the kind of masters would-be slaves willingly seek out and submit to are great because, thanks to this training, they understand, from both ends of the whip, everything there is to understand about dominance and submission and the details of restraints and other implements of punishment/pleasure and can safely deliver levels of pain and ecstasy beyond the comprehension of some lout who picks up a whip and styles himself "master". (I think it would be fascinating to force a dom player to submit to slave training, but at the end of that training, master-level training would begin, and the player might be moved into Herran's slot after Herran graduates! The responsibilities of that slot would have to be fleshed out for the player of course.) As far as the mod goes, there should be 2 dialog tracks, but the scenes would be identical regardless of the choice made by the player to be trained as a slave or future master. Maybe that would simplify or reduce the amount of work you'd have to do to accomodate sub and dom players, at least in this phase of the mod's storyline (the first part being the player getting to the required sub/dom levels by QnA Time answers, and whether the player does more deliveries (sub) or retrieval (dom) jobs might even be factored in. So this is more conceptual than specific but, imho, once a concept is accepted, whatever the concept, specifics tend to follow very rapidly. Anyway, I love your mod and can't wait to see what you do with it! I like this idea, but, and maybe this is just me, the mod seems to always subtly push the player toward submission. Now, let's be honest here, many of us want to see our PCs get punished or be somewhat submissive, and I never do a retrieval quest without doing a delivery quest first, even when playing a dominant female character. So if the idea for Master training being similar, or the same as, slave training have there be a question or two after each scene, and even if the player started out dominant, make it possible for them to become more and more submissive and the training going from Master training to Slave training. Likely more complicated than is really possible though. This bit is just kind of me mumbling and programming code so feel free to ignore it if you don't want to read my pseudocode. Don't know if this would work with pyparus but something like: int dominanceLevel = dominance - submission trainingScene01 dominanceLevel = (dominanceLevel + pointsGained) - submission so pointsGained comes from how well the player completes the scene (compliance, correct question answers, what have you) and submission comes from questions asked at the end of the scene where they player has three responses, if the player picks the most dominant response no submission, a neutral response only 1 or 2 points of submission, and a submissive response to both questions kills any dominance gained from the scene. at the end of "basic" training some kind of conditional statement if dominanceLevel !> threshold player becomes a submissive/slave Also, on the subject of dominance, Herran is just overly mouthy. Having the player compete with him or even eventually replace him might provide an interesting story, player's reaction, his reaction, possible sabotage/competition store/faction to flesh out the bandits. Also, if the goal for the dominant side is to have the player take over the shop and estate, there should come a point where the player has to both forcibly enslave someone (a non-follower vanilla NPC) and coerce someone (again, non-follower vanilla NPC, Ysolda for example could work, as the player helps her and her business sense would be good for the shop) into becoming their slave. Master has two main slave helpers and getting two of the player's own, and training them, seems to me like a logical requirement.
virgil44 Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 I'm experiencing the problem with punishment scene as well there is a scene in prison overhaul that looks exactly the same and works fine maybe it can be fixed by coping that yet again prison overhaul has a bunch of debug options
mybrainhurts Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Just throwing out some ideas for possible expansion. I have seen some good ideas. 1. One was the gag, but would be a problem with dragons after you have Dragonrend. Guess you can fight without it. 2. Wish there was more randomness to the Customer Assist slave girls selections and there being a sort of demerit for choosing something different from them. Maybe with a punishment scene for to many wrong guesses, performed by the slave girl? 3. If you blow the Customer Assist show up, besides the punishment, she keeps you in the shop as a model until the next appointment. Also could work for ticking Tavish off, but would have to be a special belt not letting you leave. You sleep in the basement with the other slaves. 4. Another Customer or Customers maybe every few days or random dates in between. 5. All items being able to be chosen by Tavish's girls including slave boots, even the harsher plugs. They come to see different items, they should be able to choose them. 6. Like the idea about being loaned out. Could be a punishment for blowing tasks. 7. Like the idea of a uniform, maid or slave. Maybe something different depending on your Ranking. I know it would have to be available in CBBE and UPN. I am sure you are getting lots of ideas and it keeps expanding all the time. Thanks. Random customers in the shop would be nice, but I understand that those can be tricky to do. Something about keeping the NPC in a specific empty cell (game cell not prison cell) until the AI package runs, and such like. The loaned out idea is a nice one, and rather than it being something done as punishment, have it be a more advanced Submissive quest; i.e. once the player has done 5-10 delivery quests, and submissive rank is topped out (or bottomed out perhaps) then the loan would be the more difficult and advanced quest. Player is equipped with a selection of items, and told to go see a specific person for a set period of time. That person has the key(s) and will release them after the time is up. Maybe something like: When a player bottoms out or tops out on the sub/dom scale, Master offers the player the opportunity to be trained formally as a slave or as a master respectively. The catch, for dom players, is that the training for future masters is identical to the training of slaves. The rationale could be that great masters, like our Master, or {gasp} Tavish (our Master's teacher!!), or Herran (!?) (nearing the end of his training period), the kind of masters would-be slaves willingly seek out and submit to are great because, thanks to this training, they understand, from both ends of the whip, everything there is to understand about dominance and submission and the details of restraints and other implements of punishment/pleasure and can safely deliver levels of pain and ecstasy beyond the comprehension of some lout who picks up a whip and styles himself "master". (I think it would be fascinating to force a dom player to submit to slave training, but at the end of that training, master-level training would begin, and the player might be moved into Herran's slot after Herran graduates! The responsibilities of that slot would have to be fleshed out for the player of course.) As far as the mod goes, there should be 2 dialog tracks, but the scenes would be identical regardless of the choice made by the player to be trained as a slave or future master. Maybe that would simplify or reduce the amount of work you'd have to do to accomodate sub and dom players, at least in this phase of the mod's storyline (the first part being the player getting to the required sub/dom levels by QnA Time answers, and whether the player does more deliveries (sub) or retrieval (dom) jobs might even be factored in. So this is more conceptual than specific but, imho, once a concept is accepted, whatever the concept, specifics tend to follow very rapidly. Anyway, I love your mod and can't wait to see what you do with it! I like this idea, but, and maybe this is just me, the mod seems to always subtly push the player toward submission. Now, let's be honest here, many of us want to see our PCs get punished or be somewhat submissive, and I never do a retrieval quest without doing a delivery quest first, even when playing a dominant female character. So if the idea for Master training being similar, or the same as, slave training have there be a question or two after each scene, and even if the player started out dominant, make it possible for them to become more and more submissive and the training going from Master training to Slave training. Likely more complicated than is really possible though. This bit is just kind of me mumbling and programming code so feel free to ignore it if you don't want to read my pseudocode. Don't know if this would work with pyparus but something like: int dominanceLevel = dominance - submission trainingScene01 dominanceLevel = (dominanceLevel + pointsGained) - submission so pointsGained comes from how well the player completes the scene (compliance, correct question answers, what have you) and submission comes from questions asked at the end of the scene where they player has three responses, if the player picks the most dominant response no submission, a neutral response only 1 or 2 points of submission, and a submissive response to both questions kills any dominance gained from the scene. at the end of "basic" training some kind of conditional statement if dominanceLevel !> threshold player becomes a submissive/slave Also, on the subject of dominance, Herran is just overly mouthy. Having the player compete with him or even eventually replace him might provide an interesting story, player's reaction, his reaction, possible sabotage/competition store/faction to flesh out the bandits. Also, if the goal for the dominant side is to have the player take over the shop and estate, there should come a point where the player has to both forcibly enslave someone (a non-follower vanilla NPC) and coerce someone (again, non-follower vanilla NPC, Ysolda for example could work, as the player helps her and her business sense would be good for the shop) into becoming their slave. Master has two main slave helpers and getting two of the player's own, and training them, seems to me like a logical requirement. I like your ideas, and big tim's. Herran would need some work, since there is no character development with him at all. And you're right - the mod does guide a player to submission. The player, even a dom player, has to submit to being collared, plugged, and belted to do a delivery quest. That's a big step, psychologically, even if it's not accounted for in Master's or her assistants' perception of the player. Veladarius mentioned developing the relationship aspect between player and Master, and that is exactly right. Amongst other reasons, there are only a small number of animations available to any mod and how many times can one watch these w/out getting bored? So bringing a story-driven element to the mod would be at least as compelling as the visuals. Maybe even more compelling. Add in the scenes as an occasional treat, not the main course, and it could be amazing. But I don't understand ideas about taking over Master's store, or turning her into a slave or whatever. After all, she didn't do anything to me that I didn't agree to, so why the hate? Tavish, on the other hand, is getting up in years. Maybe he's ready to choose an heir, and is ready to hand over the reins to a properly trained master. Following his death (by natural causes, timed to coincide with whatever training or quests might be required to become a Master) the player learns that the creepy old bastard left his estate to you! Sub players don't need their own home. They should be happy and grateful to be caged.
Epic Gamer Frey Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 I have a bit of a problem. I enter the shop, 10 seconds later a notification appears in the top left of the screen, then a few seconds later the game crashes but doesn't CDT. I waited about 5 minutes before giving up opening the task manager and force quiting. I tried it twice and it crashed the same moment.
aqqh Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 The player, even a dom player, has to submit to being collared, plugged, and belted to do a delivery quest. That's a big step, psychologically, even if it's not accounted for in Master's or her assistants' perception of the player. This could be worked on. At some point of dominance level PC could gain an option to resist being outfited with devices. Master would have to choose - send player with less restraints (or no restraints at all) or look for someone else to run with her deliveries. At first PC would force master to use less invasive plugs. Then no plugs at all. Then an open belt. Etc. Easiest thing would be that dom PC would have the option to demand more money for successful delivery - but thats a little dull (who needs money in this game anyway...). Lets call it a thing for better immersion. That could go other way with submissive char that would have option to ask for even more severe treatment At very high levels of both dominance and reputation with master PC could have an option to ask for lessons of how to train a slave. She would give you some examples and PC would be able to try them on one of the shop slaves (Kara / Alanna / Tarri). After completing those lessons quest to aquire and train your first slave?
Veladarius Posted June 12, 2014 Author Posted June 12, 2014 Just throwing out some ideas for possible expansion. I have seen some good ideas. 1. One was the gag, but would be a problem with dragons after you have Dragonrend. Guess you can fight without it. 2. Wish there was more randomness to the Customer Assist slave girls selections and there being a sort of demerit for choosing something different from them. Maybe with a punishment scene for to many wrong guesses, performed by the slave girl? 3. If you blow the Customer Assist show up, besides the punishment, she keeps you in the shop as a model until the next appointment. Also could work for ticking Tavish off, but would have to be a special belt not letting you leave. You sleep in the basement with the other slaves. 4. Another Customer or Customers maybe every few days or random dates in between. 5. All items being able to be chosen by Tavish's girls including slave boots, even the harsher plugs. They come to see different items, they should be able to choose them. 6. Like the idea about being loaned out. Could be a punishment for blowing tasks. 7. Like the idea of a uniform, maid or slave. Maybe something different depending on your Ranking. I know it would have to be available in CBBE and UPN. I am sure you are getting lots of ideas and it keeps expanding all the time. Thanks. Random customers in the shop would be nice, but I understand that those can be tricky to do. Something about keeping the NPC in a specific empty cell (game cell not prison cell) until the AI package runs, and such like. The loaned out idea is a nice one, and rather than it being something done as punishment, have it be a more advanced Submissive quest; i.e. once the player has done 5-10 delivery quests, and submissive rank is topped out (or bottomed out perhaps) then the loan would be the more difficult and advanced quest. Player is equipped with a selection of items, and told to go see a specific person for a set period of time. That person has the key(s) and will release them after the time is up. Maybe something like: When a player bottoms out or tops out on the sub/dom scale, Master offers the player the opportunity to be trained formally as a slave or as a master respectively. The catch, for dom players, is that the training for future masters is identical to the training of slaves. The rationale could be that great masters, like our Master, or {gasp} Tavish (our Master's teacher!!), or Herran (!?) (nearing the end of his training period), the kind of masters would-be slaves willingly seek out and submit to are great because, thanks to this training, they understand, from both ends of the whip, everything there is to understand about dominance and submission and the details of restraints and other implements of punishment/pleasure and can safely deliver levels of pain and ecstasy beyond the comprehension of some lout who picks up a whip and styles himself "master". (I think it would be fascinating to force a dom player to submit to slave training, but at the end of that training, master-level training would begin, and the player might be moved into Herran's slot after Herran graduates! The responsibilities of that slot would have to be fleshed out for the player of course.) As far as the mod goes, there should be 2 dialog tracks, but the scenes would be identical regardless of the choice made by the player to be trained as a slave or future master. Maybe that would simplify or reduce the amount of work you'd have to do to accomodate sub and dom players, at least in this phase of the mod's storyline (the first part being the player getting to the required sub/dom levels by QnA Time answers, and whether the player does more deliveries (sub) or retrieval (dom) jobs might even be factored in. So this is more conceptual than specific but, imho, once a concept is accepted, whatever the concept, specifics tend to follow very rapidly. Anyway, I love your mod and can't wait to see what you do with it! I like this idea, but, and maybe this is just me, the mod seems to always subtly push the player toward submission. Now, let's be honest here, many of us want to see our PCs get punished or be somewhat submissive, and I never do a retrieval quest without doing a delivery quest first, even when playing a dominant female character. So if the idea for Master training being similar, or the same as, slave training have there be a question or two after each scene, and even if the player started out dominant, make it possible for them to become more and more submissive and the training going from Master training to Slave training. Likely more complicated than is really possible though. This bit is just kind of me mumbling and programming code so feel free to ignore it if you don't want to read my pseudocode. Don't know if this would work with pyparus but something like: int dominanceLevel = dominance - submission trainingScene01 dominanceLevel = (dominanceLevel + pointsGained) - submission so pointsGained comes from how well the player completes the scene (compliance, correct question answers, what have you) and submission comes from questions asked at the end of the scene where they player has three responses, if the player picks the most dominant response no submission, a neutral response only 1 or 2 points of submission, and a submissive response to both questions kills any dominance gained from the scene. at the end of "basic" training some kind of conditional statement if dominanceLevel !> threshold player becomes a submissive/slave Also, on the subject of dominance, Herran is just overly mouthy. Having the player compete with him or even eventually replace him might provide an interesting story, player's reaction, his reaction, possible sabotage/competition store/faction to flesh out the bandits. Also, if the goal for the dominant side is to have the player take over the shop and estate, there should come a point where the player has to both forcibly enslave someone (a non-follower vanilla NPC) and coerce someone (again, non-follower vanilla NPC, Ysolda for example could work, as the player helps her and her business sense would be good for the shop) into becoming their slave. Master has two main slave helpers and getting two of the player's own, and training them, seems to me like a logical requirement. I like your ideas, and big tim's. Herran would need some work, since there is no character development with him at all. And you're right - the mod does guide a player to submission. The player, even a dom player, has to submit to being collared, plugged, and belted to do a delivery quest. That's a big step, psychologically, even if it's not accounted for in Master's or her assistants' perception of the player. Veladarius mentioned developing the relationship aspect between player and Master, and that is exactly right. Amongst other reasons, there are only a small number of animations available to any mod and how many times can one watch these w/out getting bored? So bringing a story-driven element to the mod would be at least as compelling as the visuals. Maybe even more compelling. Add in the scenes as an occasional treat, not the main course, and it could be amazing. But I don't understand ideas about taking over Master's store, or turning her into a slave or whatever. After all, she didn't do anything to me that I didn't agree to, so why the hate? Tavish, on the other hand, is getting up in years. Maybe he's ready to choose an heir, and is ready to hand over the reins to a properly trained master. Following his death (by natural causes, timed to coincide with whatever training or quests might be required to become a Master) the player learns that the creepy old bastard left his estate to you! Sub players don't need their own home. They should be happy and grateful to be caged. Herran is more than a guard, he is the Master's bodyguard (and captain of the guard one more arrive) and since you are not one of her Master's slaves he views you as a step below the slaves there. Overall, he is intended on being a somewhat mean and cruel person but is devoted to the Master entirely. There may be more information on his background later. I intend to add a lot more story content but I needed to: A- add some framework and basic things to do and B- learn how to do things. Everything I do will be built upon later both in the story and framework. There are a number of things I need to figure out with manipulating npc's, particularly with random events and picking random npc's to do things. The players relationship with Mr Tavish will proceed a number of ways depending on what the player does and will have a wider variety of options than the one with the Master. Depending on how things go he could become either a father figure type or villain or a number of things in between.
arkanae Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Garrus, what version of FNIS are you using? I have had issues like this before I updated to the latest (5.5.? I believe). While I am here, @Veladarius, I have a couple of misc suggestions / ideas for improvement that I think are relatively minor work... -1- Allow to select higher frequencies of Master "checking" the devices you have equipped or in inventory to rearrange them... For me. it should happen at least once a day regardless... -2- Extend a bit the info on the ledger to give more fine-grained feedback: additional grades of relationship with the master (goog, very goid, excellent, stellar), and additional grade of D/s affinity (submissive, very submissive, slave in training, trained slave). -3- Once submissive enough, Master will keep calling you slave regardless of devices equipped. In this case, the dialog "Why are you calling me..." leads to something like "Because I can tell you can't live unless you are simeone's property.. "
Veladarius Posted June 12, 2014 Author Posted June 12, 2014 I have a bit of a problem. I enter the shop, 10 seconds later a notification appears in the top left of the screen, then a few seconds later the game crashes but doesn't CDT. I waited about 5 minutes before giving up opening the task manager and force quiting. I tried it twice and it crashed the same moment. That would be the confiscation scene trigger (most likely). The dialogue that it triggers with the Master is a force greet (but she won't come to meet you), it may be the cause. I am going to see about changing it to a standard greeting since she doesn't come to see you. The way to avoid it is to not have any standard items in your inventory that are not being used (there are actually 7 if statements that all have to be true to trigger it). Another way to keep from triggering it is to have a disposition score of 6 or more.
Epic Gamer Frey Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Garrus, what version of FNIS are you using? I have had issues like this before I updated to the latest (5.5.? I believe). Just installed the latest version. I'll see if it's fixed later. also if it doesn't work... maybe that's because I have 252 active plugins.... a lot of them being scripted...
Epic Gamer Frey Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 That would be the confiscation scene trigger (most likely). The dialogue that it triggers with the Master is a force greet (but she won't come to meet you), it may be the cause. I am going to see about changing it to a standard greeting since she doesn't come to see you. The way to avoid it is to not have any standard items in your inventory that are not being used (there are actually 7 if statements that all have to be true to trigger it). Another way to keep from triggering it is to have a disposition score of 6 or more. what standard items?
Veladarius Posted June 12, 2014 Author Posted June 12, 2014 Garrus, what version of FNIS are you using? I have had issues like this before I updated to the latest (5.5.? I believe). While I am here, @Veladarius, I have a couple of misc suggestions / ideas for improvement that I think are relatively minor work... -1- Allow to select higher frequencies of Master "checking" the devices you have equipped or in inventory to rearrange them... For me. it should happen at least once a day regardless... -2- Extend a bit the info on the ledger to give more fine-grained feedback: additional grades of relationship with the master (goog, very goid, excellent, stellar), and additional grade of D/s affinity (submissive, very submissive, slave in training, trained slave). -3- Once submissive enough, Master will keep calling you slave regardless of devices equipped. In this case, the dialog "Why are you calling me..." leads to something like "Because I can tell you can't live unless you are simeone's property.. " I can probably add something to the MCM menu to adjust the cooldown on the confiscation, currently it is 3 days. I need to check the script on it so make sure it is not having an issue when it sets the date to try again at the end of the month. The relationship levels currently coincide with the different levels set up in the dialogue and such, same with the disposition (there are 5 ranks for each).
Veladarius Posted June 12, 2014 Author Posted June 12, 2014 That would be the confiscation scene trigger (most likely). The dialogue that it triggers with the Master is a force greet (but she won't come to meet you), it may be the cause. I am going to see about changing it to a standard greeting since she doesn't come to see you. The way to avoid it is to not have any standard items in your inventory that are not being used (there are actually 7 if statements that all have to be true to trigger it). Another way to keep from triggering it is to have a disposition score of 6 or more. what standard items? Any of the standard items from Integration. Items from the Expansion (boots, custom harnesses or Ebonite items) and items from CD are not figured into it yet. For the most part it is a way to keep some people from wandering around with too much stuff (may come up with more ways later).
Veladarius Posted June 12, 2014 Author Posted June 12, 2014 Garrus, what version of FNIS are you using? I have had issues like this before I updated to the latest (5.5.? I believe). Just installed the latest version. I'll see if it's fixed later. also if it doesn't work... maybe that's because I have 252 active plugins.... a lot of them being scripted... I am at about the same number currently. About 60 are items and armor sets the rest are things that change game play.
Epic Gamer Frey Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 My character has none of that stuff with her. She just wants to look inside.
Veladarius Posted June 12, 2014 Author Posted June 12, 2014 My character has none of that stuff with her. She just wants to look inside. Do you know what the message was?
Epic Gamer Frey Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 My character has none of that stuff with her. She just wants to look inside. Do you know what the message was? this might be a load order problem. were about should it be?
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