Animal Research: The Insatiable Scholar

[killer905]

1 hour ago, AntonHynkel said:

 

I was just in prison once, then Ragnar was with the Companions and Tirwin in the Bannered Mare, I let Tirwin teleport me outside the city and now I have both of them as special companions,

Probably the handover with the book was in the wrong place, that's why she had teleported away, because when I talked to her I was teleported to the city and then it started immediately

And then you are told ingame that it ends in mom here, continues later and you can have both as followers ... good job

Ri'saad should be beyond the town of Whiterun. As he was on his way to Markarth or Whiterun or camped in Markarth, Tirwin and the dog should be moved to outside Whiterun. Probably an option will have to be added that Tirwin can also be returned in Markarth and the scene with the dog added there.

 

1 hour ago, AthenaTheLover said:

Very interesting mod. And from what I have read I can play male and female. What creatures will be in the next update and when?

If you are not afraid of spoilers, you can find them here ->https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14yteMSUtPq9ZEcFN4fN-EJASYEvr9OqYFaeyuPtkRsQ/edit?gid=0#gid=0
When. It's never worth asking. But I think once a month is enough.

[Gristle]

1 hour ago, AthenaTheLover said:

Very interesting mod. And from what I have read I can play male and female. What creatures will be in the next update and when?

Spoiler

Current plan is deer, horse, sabre cat. Then giant, mammoth, troll. Then probably a trip to Solstheim. 

 

As for when, that's harder to say. Killer905 has been doing quick work, but I need to rotate my coding time between this mod, Balazar, and SLSF Fame Comments (spouse features). But the hardest part of this mod is hopefully already done (getting Tirwin to put her hair up/down properly and at appropriate times, detecting her sex activity start and end, changing her outfits, plus her and her dog's follow packages).  So, hopefully the next versions will be quicker (and more bug free).

[KeplerZeroFive]

8 hours ago, killer905 said:

If you can, do 2 tests:

1) On the same mods, but on new save. You can use the code on god mode.

2) Same as above, but with SexLab P+ turned off and also on new save (don't load the old one)

 

You could alternatively try sex with Tirwin using SLEN, Debug in SexLab and see if the problem is the same.

Did some testing and found some interesting results (restarting the game between each step).

• Loaded my most recent save and used a Sexlab debug spell to trigger a scene between the player character and Tirwin - Same result as with the wolf, Tirwin ragdolls and flies around.
• Created a new game with the same mods and immediately began the quest - used a Sexlab debug spell to trigger a scene between the player character and Tirwin - Tirwin correctly switches to the nude long-hair model, and redresses shortly after (scene was triggered in Whiterun).
  • This lead me to believe the issue was something with my save.
• Loaded the save from immediately before I installed the Animal Research mod. Immediately began the quest and triggered a scene - Tirwin behaves normally, as in the new game.
• Loaded a save after I began the quest, but before I retrieved the book from Ilinalta's Deep (in the original "timeline") and triggered scene - flying ragdoll again.
• Loaded the first save before I began the quest (in the original "timeline"), started quest, and triggered scene - no flying ragdoll, but Tirwin remains the hair-up version and stays clothed when the scene finishes.

From this, it seems like there was something I'd done between installing the mod and actually beginning it (~1 hour of playtime) that caused it to break. If I can find out what that was, I'll be sure to update this post or my original, but for now I'm satisfied to have a simple enough solution of loading an earlier save. Thank you both very much for your assistance!

[KentuckyExpat]

3 hours ago, Gristle said:

The stage when Tirwin asks you to wait behind the wagon is stage 80.  On stage 80, there should be an objective arrow on an invisible marker behind the wagon. Also, on this stage, Tirwin stops following you. It sounds like that all worked fine. Next, there is an invisible trigger box behind the wagon -- directly behind the wagon. The arrow would guide you there, but if for some reason the arrow didn't show up, you have to be directly next to and behind the wagon, on the side opposite the cave. 

 

Hitting that trigger box advances the stage from 80 to 90. You should know you're on stage 90 because the objective changes to "Keep an eye on Tirwin ..." and calls Sexlab and starts the Tirwin/wolf sex. So, if you hit stage 90 and there was no wolf sex, possible reasons are 1) no wolf animations enabled, or 2) you are not running the latest version of the mod, as updates fixed an issue where the wolf sex only worked with "hair up" Tirwin.

 

Stage 100 doesn't really do anything visible. It's just there to trigger Tirwin's post-sex force greet, which she won't have until the end of her wolf sex animation.

OK. Saw the arrow, moved to it and got the message, "Keep an eye on Tirwin ...". Moved to the end of the wagon where the tongue is located so I could "keep an eye" on her. Waited about 40 ingame minutes, nothing.

I have version 0.163 which seems to be the latest.

The animation packs I have loaded are -

Billyy's latest ver.8.0 SE, with all the creature anims registered. Now this pack doesn't have "wolf" anims, it has "canine" anims which should be for dogs or wolves. Is that how your mod would recognize the proper anim or does it have to say "wolf"?

Leito's animation pack 1.6 SE with all the creature anims registered. Here the anims are listed as dog/wolf. Shouldn't make a difference, should it?

Anub's C 3 2022 This is a collection of creature-only anims. It includes several types of wolf animations.

All of these have been registered in SLAL

I'm at a loss...

[Gristle]

12 minutes ago, KentuckyExpat said:

OK. Saw the arrow, moved to it and got the message, "Keep an eye on Tirwin ...". Moved to the end of the wagon where the tongue is located so I could "keep an eye" on her. Waited about 40 ingame minutes, nothing.

I have version 0.163 which seems to be the latest.

The animation packs I have loaded are -

Billyy's latest ver.8.0 SE, with all the creature anims registered. Now this pack doesn't have "wolf" anims, it has "canine" anims which should be for dogs or wolves. Is that how your mod would recognize the proper anim or does it have to say "wolf"?

Leito's animation pack 1.6 SE with all the creature anims registered. Here the anims are listed as dog/wolf. Shouldn't make a difference, should it?

Anub's C 3 2022 This is a collection of creature-only anims. It includes several types of wolf animations.

All of these have been registered in SLAL

I'm at a loss...

Tirwin and the wolf should begin walking to the spot they have sex within a few seconds after you get the "Keep an eye on Tirwin ..." message. The Sexlab call for the wolf is using the Sexlab RaceKey "Wolves". This includes the following Race IDs:

 

WolfRace
DLC1DeathHoundCompanionRace
DLC1DeathHoundRace

 

There is also a RaceKey "Canines", which includes the above, plus all of the various dog/husky RaceIDs.

 

I have animations labelled "Wolf" with Anubs, MNC and Nibbles. But... I have no idea how those labels actually match up with Sexlab RaceKeys. Hopefully, they match.

 

I could potentially change the RaceKey to "Canines" but it sounds like you do have Wolf animations. 

 

As a test, if you setstage to 110 ("setstage VAR_MainQuest 110"). Tirwin has dialogue at that stage that allows the PC to have sex with the wolf.  You could see if that wolf sex works.

 

 

[killer905]

5 hours ago, KeplerZeroFive said:

 

• Created a new game with the same mods and immediately began the quest - used a Sexlab debug spell to trigger a scene between the player character and Tirwin - Tirwin correctly switches to the nude long-hair model, and redresses shortly after (scene was triggered in Whiterun).
  • This lead me to believe the issue was something with my save.

This is correct behaviour Tirwin, if the sex scene was in any other way than triggered by the mod. I also think it's a problem with the save.

 

5 hours ago, KeplerZeroFive said:

Did some testing and found some interesting results (restarting the game between each step).

• Loaded my most recent save and used a Sexlab debug spell to trigger a scene between the player character and Tirwin - Same result as with the wolf, Tirwin ragdolls and flies around
• Loaded the save from immediately before I installed the Animal Research mod. Immediately began the quest and triggered a scene - Tirwin behaves normally, as in the new game.
• Loaded a save after I began the quest, but before I retrieved the book from Ilinalta's Deep (in the original "timeline") and triggered scene - flying ragdoll again.
• Loaded the first save before I began the quest (in the original "timeline"), started quest, and triggered scene - no flying ragdoll, but Tirwin remains the hair-up version and stays clothed when the scene finishes.

From this, it seems like there was something I'd done between installing the mod and actually beginning it (~1 hour of playtime) that caused it to break. If I can find out what that was, I'll be sure to update this post or my original, but for now I'm satisfied to have a simple enough solution of loading an earlier save. Thank you both very much for your assistance!

OK, it's better to write a new post when more is known

 

3 hours ago, KentuckyExpat said:

OK. Saw the arrow, moved to it and got the message, "Keep an eye on Tirwin ...". Moved to the end of the wagon where the tongue is located so I could "keep an eye" on her. Waited about 40 ingame minutes, nothing.

I have version 0.163 which seems to be the latest.

The animation packs I have loaded are -

Billyy's latest ver.8.0 SE, with all the creature anims registered. Now this pack doesn't have "wolf" anims, it has "canine" anims which should be for dogs or wolves. Is that how your mod would recognize the proper anim or does it have to say "wolf"?

Leito's animation pack 1.6 SE with all the creature anims registered. Here the anims are listed as dog/wolf. Shouldn't make a difference, should it?

Anub's C 3 2022 This is a collection of creature-only anims. It includes several types of wolf animations.

All of these have been registered in SLAL

I'm at a loss...

Alternatively, turn on ‘debug mode’ in SexLab MCM, this will then give an error in the console if no suitable animation is found.

[Unfrog12]

Ooo-er, looks good...new game required or can I drop it in mid-game?

[killer905]

1 hour ago, Unfrog12 said:

Ooo-er, looks good...new game required or can I drop it in mid-game?

You can play in mid-game

[KentuckyExpat]

12 hours ago, Gristle said:

Tirwin and the wolf should begin walking to the spot they have sex within a few seconds after you get the "Keep an eye on Tirwin ..." message. The Sexlab call for the wolf is using the Sexlab RaceKey "Wolves". This includes the following Race IDs:

 

WolfRace
DLC1DeathHoundCompanionRace
DLC1DeathHoundRace

 

There is also a RaceKey "Canines", which includes the above, plus all of the various dog/husky RaceIDs.

 

I have animations labelled "Wolf" with Anubs, MNC and Nibbles. But... I have no idea how those labels actually match up with Sexlab RaceKeys. Hopefully, they match.

 

I could potentially change the RaceKey to "Canines" but it sounds like you do have Wolf animations. 

 

As a test, if you setstage to 110 ("setstage VAR_MainQuest 110"). Tirwin has dialogue at that stage that allows the PC to have sex with the wolf.  You could see if that wolf sex works.

 

 

I'm an idiot. Forgot to enable creature animations in SexLab. As soon as I did, the animations played.

 

BTW, I have completed the first part of the mod and now Tirwin is my follower but she doesn't have all of the options of a regular follower, to wit, I can't give her stuff to carry. There's no option for it in her dialogue. Could that be corrected, please? I like to give my followers certain things like bath soap and better armor. Yes, she is a mage but there are better mage outfits available than the default robes she is wearing.

[Gristle]

2 hours ago, KentuckyExpat said:

BTW, I have completed the first part of the mod and now Tirwin is my follower but she doesn't have all of the options of a regular follower, to wit, I can't give her stuff to carry. There's no option for it in her dialogue. Could that be corrected, please? I like to give my followers certain things like bath soap and better armor. Yes, she is a mage but there are better mage outfits available than the default robes she is wearing.

This is probably not possible. The main issue is that Tirwin has two hairstyles. Because you can't switch hairstyles on an actor, this is accomplished by having two Tirwin actors that switch back and forth. So, behind the scenes, Tirwin is actually two followers. The other issue is that Tirwin behaves a little differently than other NPCs regarding sex. She doesn't dress immediately afterward, and always has something to say to the PC after sex. This is accomplished in part by outfit switching. If you give her different outfits, this gets even more complicated than it already is. Also, if she was a standard follower, people would probably be tempted to put her into follower frameworks like NFF or AFT, which could auto switch her outfit, and which would further interfere with her outfit changing.

 

Possibly, she could be given some inventory dialogue, perhaps for non-equippable items, like the bath soap. The script could then give the item to (or take from) both versions of Tirwin.

 

Also, an upgrade to her outfit could possibly be worked into the quest. Is there a better mage outfit you had in mind?

[monty359]

6 hours ago, Gristle said:

This is probably not possible. The main issue is that Tirwin has two hairstyles. Because you can't switch hairstyles on an actor, this is accomplished by having two Tirwin actors that switch back and forth. So, behind the scenes, Tirwin is actually two followers. The other issue is that Tirwin behaves a little differently than other NPCs regarding sex. She doesn't dress immediately afterward, and always has something to say to the PC after sex. This is accomplished in part by outfit switching. If you give her different outfits, this gets even more complicated than it already is. Also, if she was a standard follower, people would probably be tempted to put her into follower frameworks like NFF or AFT, which could auto switch her outfit, and which would further interfere with her outfit changing.

 

Possibly, she could be given some inventory dialogue, perhaps for non-equippable items, like the bath soap. The script could then give the item to (or take from) both versions of Tirwin.

 

Also, an upgrade to her outfit could possibly be worked into the quest. Is there a better mage outfit you had in mind?

 

i have an idea about switching of hairstyles: would it be possibe to mke a hairstyle with morph-slider and switch the morph slider rom 0 to 100 and back with skript command when needed? I imagine , it would be quite simple to create the meshes for the hair styles, i do not know about the code for the switching of the morphs from 0 to 100 and back to 0 on demnad. Just an idea...

Edited July 29, 2024 by monty359
spelling errors

[killer905]

20 minutes ago, monty359 said:

 

i have an idea about switching of hairstyles: would it be possibe to mke a hairstyle with morph-slider and switch the morph slider rom 0 to 100 and back with skript command when needed? I imagine , it would be quite simple to create the meshes for the hair styles, i do not know about the code for the switching of the morphs from 0 to 100 and back to 0 on demnad. Just an idea...

I don't think it would be possible, and even if it were possible, there are so many different hairstyles that setting the slider on 100, someone will have a completely different hairstyle than the one assumed by the mod.

[monty359]

25 minutes ago, killer905 said:

I don't think it would be possible, and even if it were possible, there are so many different hairstyles that setting the slider on 100, someone will have a completely different hairstyle than the one assumed by the mod.

 

I guess you did not fully understand the idea.

 

I try it again. The hairstyle will be provided by your mod. The hairstyle .nif will be having meshes of two different haistyles (the meshes can be freely chosen, but when the files are made, the styles are fixed).

 

The morph slider would have two working states: 0 and 100%

 

@ 0: style 1 is visible (size of style 1 normal, size of style 2 is very small and inside of the head and not visible)

@ 100: style 2 is visible (size of style 2normal, size of style 1 is very small and inside of the head and not visible)

 

There is no mesh switching. One mesh file contains the data of two hairstyles and the moph slider changes the look. I could make the meshes, if you as mod creator can provide the meshes of the two hairstyles. I am traveling for the next couple of days and was not able to test the mod, but i could make the meshes in a couple of days. The only thing is needed, is the code for switching. You can think of the code, as if you would want to make the boobs of your character

switch from 0 to 100 (make them bigger)^^.

 

I hope the explanation was better.

 

 

P:S. I do not know it, but can Skyrim work with .tri files for the hair style meshes?

Edited July 29, 2024 by monty359

[killer905]

1 hour ago, monty359 said:

 

I guess you did not fully understand the idea.

 

I try it again. The hairstyle will be provided by your mod. The hairstyle .nif will be having meshes of two different haistyles (the meshes can be freely chosen, but when the files are made, the styles are fixed).

 

The morph slider would have two working states: 0 and 100%

 

@ 0: style 1 is visible (size of style 1 normal, size of style 2 is very small and inside of the head and not visible)

@ 100: style 2 is visible (size of style 2normal, size of style 1 is very small and inside of the head and not visible)

 

There is no mesh switching. One mesh file contains the data of two hairstyles and the moph slider changes the look. I could make the meshes, if you as mod creator can provide the meshes of the two hairstyles. I am traveling for the next couple of days and was not able to test the mod, but i could make the meshes in a couple of days. The only thing is needed, is the code for switching. You can think of the code, as if you would want to make the boobs of your character

switch from 0 to 100 (make them bigger)^^.

 

I hope the explanation was better.

 

 

P:S. I do not know it, but can Skyrim work with .tri files for the hair style meshes?

I think it's worth waiting for @Gristle to comment on this, because now I more or less understand what's going on. Is there a mod that works like you described? But there's another option that I saw in the Rigmor of Bruma and Rigmor of Cyrodiil mods. So the character is bald, but has hair on, like a hat, only that the hair probably disappears during sex scenes, but I think there's a way for SexLAb not to remove the hair during these scenes.

[monty359]

1 hour ago, killer905 said:

I think it's worth waiting for @Gristle to comment on this, because now I more or less understand what's going on. Is there a mod that works like you described? But there's another option that I saw in the Rigmor of Bruma and Rigmor of Cyrodiil mods. So the character is bald, but has hair on, like a hat, only that the hair probably disappears during sex scenes, but I think there's a way for SexLAb not to remove the hair during these scenes.

Sadly i do not know of any mod, that can do that, i asked two mod authors of mods, where in my opinion it would fit well, but both declined.

 

My idea was, to create cloth, that change appearance, depending on arousal state. Here you can see, what is alredy in my mod (called ABBA effect).

 

The change is small. With this method, big changes are possible with meshes, but wheiting will be still the same, so it would look bad. With the method i described in my previeous post, it would work well, but there is no mod, that can manipulate morph sliders.

 

Imagine to have different looks of a shirt on your PC or an NPC at arousal 30, 60 and 90!

 

I hope gristle would like the idea with the hair styles. It would be the first proof of concept in game....

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2024 by monty359

[Delth98]

For some reason the Tirwin with hair down does not spawn for me after the bear animation ends. She just reequips her dress and no dialogue shows up. Using SexLab P+ btw.

[Gristle]

4 hours ago, killer905 said:

I think it's worth waiting for @Gristle to comment on this, because now I more or less understand what's going on. Is there a mod that works like you described? But there's another option that I saw in the Rigmor of Bruma and Rigmor of Cyrodiil mods. So the character is bald, but has hair on, like a hat, only that the hair probably disappears during sex scenes, but I think there's a way for SexLAb not to remove the hair during these scenes.

Hair switching by script/morph slider/mesh sounds interesting, but I don't know if it's possible. Or, I guess I should say I don't know how to do it, although that could just be a reflection of my limited programming skills.  Wouldn't you have to change the texture too? 

 

But the Rigmor approach (great mod) suggested by killer905 is a good idea and certainly possible. I've seen hair as equippable "wigs" before. And I've seen hats with hair, and of course, all headgear replaces hair. This sounds like a simple approach. As for Sexlab, all you have to do is give the "wig" a DD keyword and Sexlab won't strip it. But, here again, I don't know enough to make such a "wig".

[Gristle]

3 hours ago, Delth98 said:

For some reason the Tirwin with hair down does not spawn for me after the bear animation ends. She just reequips her dress and no dialogue shows up. Using SexLab P+ btw.

Did Tirwin spawn with hair down after the wolf animation ended?

[KentuckyExpat]

13 hours ago, Gristle said:

This is probably not possible. The main issue is that Tirwin has two hairstyles. Because you can't switch hairstyles on an actor, this is accomplished by having two Tirwin actors that switch back and forth. So, behind the scenes, Tirwin is actually two followers. The other issue is that Tirwin behaves a little differently than other NPCs regarding sex. She doesn't dress immediately afterward, and always has something to say to the PC after sex. This is accomplished in part by outfit switching. If you give her different outfits, this gets even more complicated than it already is. Also, if she was a standard follower, people would probably be tempted to put her into follower frameworks like NFF or AFT, which could auto switch her outfit, and which would further interfere with her outfit changing.

 

Possibly, she could be given some inventory dialogue, perhaps for non-equippable items, like the bath soap. The script could then give the item to (or take from) both versions of Tirwin.

 

Also, an upgrade to her outfit could possibly be worked into the quest. Is there a better mage outfit you had in mind?

OK. That explains something that I was confused about. I have a mod in my load order, Fertility Mode (FM). Fertility Mode, if you're unfamiliar with it, provides all of the females of childbearing age in the game with a menstrual cycle, i.e. they can get pregnant. It also provides an option to view where every NPC (and the PC if she is a woman) is in her cycle, where in Tamriel she is located and if she is pregnant. When I check that option I can see two Tirwins, one where I think she should be and one in Soul Cairn. Very confusing without your explanation.

 

Interestingly enough, the presence of a second Tirwin creates an amusing situation. Since FM adds a menstrual cycle beginning on a random day to every female of childbearing age when she first appears in the game (the number of females increase as the PC explores more and more of Tamriel), Tirwin 1 and Tirwin 2 have different cycles since the mod treats them as two different  people. So, depending on whether or not her hair is up or down, she has two opportunities to get pregnant in any one cycle. Gives a whole new meaning to the old phrase "letting her hair down".

 

 Sorry to hear that she can't be given equippable items. I like to give my followers various things, sometimes weapons or better armor (not applicable here since she is a mage), sometimes jewelry, and sometimes clothing.

 

With respect to better mage outfits, not really. I seldom, if ever, play as a mage myself so I am very unfamiliar with the variety of mage outfits. I was  just assuming that what she is currently wearing is not the most potent outfit she might be able to use.

[Unfrog12]

Played through, enjoyed it a lot. I had no problems, everything worked correctly...well, except the final bit when I was talking to Ri'saad. Ragnar got impatient and ran off to bang a slave girl, and I had to reload...I'll switch off auto encounters in Aroused Creatures next time.

 

I can confirm, this mod and NFF coexist...uneasily. No crashes or anything like that, just oddities of behavior, which is explained by the '2 Tirwins' solution Gristle outlined above. I'll disable it with the next update.

 

Tirwin also had a tendency to get stuck in stealth mode crouch, which sometimes went away with a cell change, sometimes not for several changes. It's probably related to NFF.

 

I use One With Nature to disable attacks by creatures grown trivial to kill, however Ragnar attacks them regardless. This leads to him getting separated from the party frequently when he goes charging off to attack something, and it prevents random encounters in the wilds with other creatures while he's in the party.

 

Thanks, Gristle and Killer905. Looking forward to updates...woof!

 

 

[KentuckyExpat]

13 hours ago, Gristle said:

Also, an upgrade to her outfit could possibly be worked into the quest. Is there a better mage outfit you had in mind?

I don't know if this is possible but if it is, it might provide a limited means to add items to Tirwin's inventory, specifically giving her new mage robes. First question is, how does the game decide if an object is more powerful than what the PC has currently equipped? I'm assuming there is some numeric value associated with the item which the game can compare to whatever is currently in the PC's inventory. If so, when a better mage robe is found, either on a looted body or in a chest, a flag is set which calls a script that transfers the item from the PC's inventory to Tirwin's inventory where it replaces her current robe.

[Delth98]

36 minutes ago, Gristle said:

Did Tirwin spawn with hair down after the wolf animation ended?

When i tried the mod first time yesterday she didnt change her hair even after the wolf animation, same thing happened. she just equiped her robe again and no dialog. today when i tried it on new save it somehow worked with the wolf but not with the bear. not really sure whats going on. might be that SL+ just end the animation faster and the script to swap Tirwin doesnt fire up in time?

Edited July 29, 2024 by Delth98

[killer905]

1 hour ago, Gristle said:

But the Rigmor approach (great mod) suggested by killer905 is a good idea and certainly possible. I've seen hair as equippable "wigs" before. And I've seen hats with hair, and of course, all headgear replaces hair. This sounds like a simple approach. As for Sexlab, all you have to do is give the "wig" a DD keyword and Sexlab won't strip it. But, here again, I don't know enough to make such a "wig".

"Reverse engineering" would have to be followed from the dialogue to the thing in CK and check how they are set up.

[Delth98]

So i played the rest of the quest with console commands to force the dialogue when she didn't change her hair and overall great mod, thank you. I noticed that at the end of the part 1 quest you get an option in her dialogue to change her hair (forces to spawn the second Tirwin) and wanted to ask if it would be possible to add that dialogue option at the start of the quest? it could help with debugging when her hair doesn't change for some reason.

[killer905]

12 minutes ago, Delth98 said:

So i played the rest of the quest with console commands to force the dialogue when she didn't change her hair and overall great mod, thank you. I noticed that at the end of the part 1 quest you get an option in her dialogue to change her hair (forces to spawn the second Tirwin) and wanted to ask if it would be possible to add that dialogue option at the start of the quest? it could help with debugging when her hair doesn't change for some reason.

Considering that SexLab P+ users are having problems, I guess we'll check how the solution used in the "Rigmor of Bruma" and "Rigmor of Cyrodiil" mods would work. So Tirwin is normally bald, but she has something like a wig on head.