Animal Research: The Insatiable Scholar

[Gristle]

14 hours ago, eflat01 said:

When looking at how they're built you're using templates...

Yes. Basically, existing actors are duplicated in the CK, and then the original actor is set as the "Base Actor" and then "Use Traits" is selected on the new actor. This allows all beauty/hair mods on the base actor to carry over to the new actor. Clothing can be changed without issue. It's not hard to create new actors (although that does require face generation files to be packed with the mod), but this method allows for a player's beauty and hair mods to be used automatically. Also, for the masked actors, we thought it wasn't worth the trouble to deal with face generation files.

[eflat01]

23 minutes ago, killer905 said:

Um... I added a broken bottle to Tirwin's EQ, and when I tried to access her custom outfit, it crashed. After using the removeitem command, I can now view her custom outfit without any problems. So, theoretically, you can safely get rid of the problematic item if Tirwin already has it in her EQ.

Well I had removed the bottle early in my tests... at first I put a blank effect on it which did not work, but may had done so wrong? I don't know? @apEna managed to fix the bottle a few post up... I did not see the object bounds on the item.

[eflat01]

12 minutes ago, Gristle said:

Yes. Basically, existing actors are duplicated in the CK, and then the original actor is set as the "Base Actor" and then "Use Traits" is selected on the new actor. This allows all beauty/hair mods on the base actor to carry over to the new actor. Clothing can be changed without issue. It's not hard to create new actors (although that does require face generation files to be packed with the mod), but this method allows for a player's beauty and hair mods to be used automatically. Also, for the masked actors, we thought it wasn't worth the trouble to deal with face generation files.

 

Which is good design, I was just making light in my own accord on SPID, I did not realize if I hit a base id with it and that later becomes used as a template SPID would act that way. 

 

Was funny though that most the npcs you chose as templates resulted in a high-poly party.... guess Saguine only invites the beautiful people? 🤣

 

All these, plus some,  are high-poly custom 3BA body in my game:

Spoiler

 

Edited July 27, 2025 by eflat01

[killer905]

37 minutes ago, Gristle said:

All scene dialogue uses aliases, but there are two relevant types of alias definition. Most aliases are assigned to a specific actor. However, some are "force filled" on the fly. For example, Tirwin's alias is filled by Tirwin, but when she approaches someone for sex, that actor is forced into an empty 'sex partner' alias. This way, the same scene can be used no matter who she approaches. When I look at the scene dialogue for Tirwin, it is only showing one voice type (Tirwin's). So, I think the issue is only with the latter type of alias, right?

 

EDIT: Also, on the todo list: Adding actor ID conditions to all normal dialogue. This is already added on the first line of dialogue of course. But, where there is a conversation thread, I didn't put the actor ID condition on the subsequent dialogue that can only be access through the first (conditioned) line of dialogue. But I realize now that, although this works fine for "who can say what" logic purposes, the game wants to generate 50+ voice files for every subsequent line of dialogue. So, I plan to go back through and add these actor ID conditions.

@killer905 There should be no Dawnguard or Dragonborn sound folders, right?

Probably not, but the plan is to regenerate the voices anyway due to a lot of junk files. Mainly from the party.

[killer905]

25 minutes ago, Gristle said:

Yes. Basically, existing actors are duplicated in the CK, and then the original actor is set as the "Base Actor" and then "Use Traits" is selected on the new actor. This allows all beauty/hair mods on the base actor to carry over to the new actor. Clothing can be changed without issue. It's not hard to create new actors (although that does require face generation files to be packed with the mod), but this method allows for a player's beauty and hair mods to be used automatically. Also, for the masked actors, we thought it wasn't worth the trouble to deal with face generation files.

True, but we can make bar girls unique if we use them for something other than the Dremora quest.

[kamithemoon]

25 minutes ago, Gristle said:

All scene dialogue uses aliases, but there are two relevant types of alias definition. Most aliases are assigned to a specific actor. However, some are "force filled" on the fly. For example, Tirwin's alias is filled by Tirwin, but when she approaches someone for sex, that actor is forced into an empty 'sex partner' alias. This way, the same scene can be used no matter who she approaches. When I look at the scene dialogue for Tirwin, it is only showing one voice type (Tirwin's). So, I think the issue is only with the latter type of alias, right?

 

EDIT: Also, on the todo list: Adding actor ID conditions to all normal dialogue. This is already added on the first line of dialogue of course. But, where there is a conversation thread, I didn't put the actor ID condition on the subsequent dialogue that can only be access through the first (conditioned) line of dialogue. But I realize now that, although this works fine for "who can say what" logic purposes, the game wants to generate 50+ voice files for every subsequent line of dialogue. So, I plan to go back through and add these actor ID conditions.

@killer905 There should be no Dawnguard or Dragonborn sound folders, right?

For the Dawnguard stuff, a few conditions were added to the vanilla dialogues, which caused the script to then generate the voices for the grumpy old man and Serana had an ITM which also had voices generated for her.  But these can safely be deleted since you'd want to use the vanilla voices.  The Dragonborn folder is empty, so I'm not sure where it came from, but it can be deleted.

 

I never got around to using the CK so I don't know how it works, only that it was too annoying for me to try and figure it out.  But I mess around in xedit alot.  All scene dialogue looks like the picture below, missing conditions.  It sadly makes the dialogue extraction script confused so it generates dialogue for all generic voices and ignores unique voices and can leads to 1000s of generated bloat.  I always try to identify stuff like this and eliminate bloat by adding a condition to the dialogue for whomever or whatever voices are supposed to be talking when I run the script.  It's not hard to do with this mod right now as it's being developed so I can debloat it a little at a time successfully, but trying to do this on completed mods is overly frustrating which is why I never finished The Ancient Profession.  I've just been trying to ask authors to add a condition here, if possible, to point to the speaker so voice generation is a bit easier down the road.  All that said though, I know someone is working on a newer extraction script and I mentioned the issues with aliases and factions so I hope they'll be able to address it then no extra effort would be required for authors.  The other person also has better programs that generate voices with more consistency and easy so he can do 1000s of lines without issue.  But I'm old school and can't do that =(.

[killer905]

19 minutes ago, eflat01 said:

 

Which is good design, I was just making light in my own accord on SPID, I did not realize if I hit a base id with it and that later becomes used as a template SPID would act that way. 

 

Was funny though that most the npcs you chose as templates resulted in a high-poly party.... guess Saguine only invites the beautiful people? 🤣

 

All these, plus some,  are high-poly custom 3BA body in my game:

  Hide contents

 

[Gristle]

13 hours ago, nothing2lose said:

got few bug that force tirwin to talk to me but no new dialog option,

Do you recall what stages or locations this happened?

13 hours ago, nothing2lose said:

also theres a bug with harkon when he about to take tirwin for the second time he just stand there so i had to disabled and enabled him to continue the scene,

I think I see a possible problem here. The PC might be (masturbating) out of his force greet range. Then again, he should walk towards the PC to deliver his dialogue. But maybe Tirwin is blocking him? I will extend the FG range in the next update. Otherwise, the code is all correct.

13 hours ago, nothing2lose said:

and the second is tirwin and the gargoyle, when VAR_gargoyle is set to stage 215, i manualy push it to 216 but nothing happen then i  push it to 220 thats when the new quest appear to talk to valerica/tirwin

Tirwin should force greet you on stage 215. The resulting dialogue would then advance the stage to 216 and then to 220. This force greet is set up correctly: It uses the same force greet AI package as all her other post-sex force greets. The only difference is a stage 215 condition on the dialogue. For some reason, these force greets don't always trigger quickly or cleanly (even though I am forcing her to reevaluate her AI packages immediately after sex end). The only thing I can suggest is to wait a bit or approach her.  

[Gristle]

11 hours ago, Carnotaurus said:

Continuing the quests, still haven't finished the Volkihar quests. But I see I was not the only one to think that Valerica had made gargoyles for some, um, "special purposes" when Serana mentions it during the Dawnguard quest.

Yes, couldn't ignore a suggestion of beastiality that was actually in the vanilla game.

11 hours ago, Carnotaurus said:

 

And a gargoyle named Gygax? I see what you all did there. 😆

Yes, a nod to Gary Gygax, but it does make a good gargoyle name.

[Gristle]

2 hours ago, apEna said:

Gygax was hostile when spawning from statue -> quick Pacify and everything went normally from there

Others have had this issue as well, which is puzzling because after activating his vanilla "explode/ambush" script (which makes him hostile), the code is doing this:

 

Garg1.setAV("Aggression", 0)
Garg1.SetRelationshipRank(PlayerRef,3)
Garg1.SetRelationshipRank(Tirwin,3)
Garg1.SetRelationshipRank(Valerica,3)
Garg1.StopCombat()

 

In the next update, I'll try putting in a slight delay in between the activation of the script and the above. Maybe I'm trying to calm him too quickly -- before his activation script has finished making him hostile.  It works for me, but could be affected by different CPUs/papyrus loads.

2 hours ago, apEna said:

Darkdfaces:

VAR_Kustr missing template trait flag to use the template.

VAR_Bren The cook in the party, missing template traits flag to use the template

Otto, dunno why, made him use Sams template to skip this mods face files.

Thanks. Will be fixed in the next update. I'll use 'Samwell's' template for Otto.

2 hours ago, apEna said:

Tirwins scenes got stuck cause I entertained guest she was going to entertain too -> reload and wait for Tirwin to star her scenes before doing my part. Just Skyrim being Skyrim.

This issue was anticipated and NPCs who are next up for Tirwin should be blocked from PC sex requests -- or rather, they will say no. Maybe someone was missed? Do you recall who the guest was?

2 hours ago, apEna said:

After asking Tirwin to keep her hair down, the option to put the hair back up completly dissapeared.

Will add to next version.

2 hours ago, apEna said:

One thing I would like to see is that the all Tirwins dialogue options are changed under one top-level option like "Hey Tirwin..." and from there the about options. This way they wouldn't be all over the top-level dialogues.

Maybe not in next version, but it's a good idea to try to consolidate her dialogue further.

[eflat01]

54 minutes ago, Gristle said:

 

This issue was anticipated and NPCs who are next up for Tirwin should be blocked from PC sex requests -- or rather, they will say no. Maybe someone was missed? Do you recall who the guest was?

 

 

Hmm, I noted some npcs are basically in a line for her - via dialog they said they wanted her.  Is it in an array list of npcs? (Been years but I once scaned an area tossed a number of npcs in a forms list, popping them off the forms list one at a time to process them. Here you don't have to scan because you know the npcs you want. You could just instantiate a list of forms on the fly I think now?)

 

1. I made sure to turn off any other mods which may cause a sl sex scene. i.e. Spectators.

2. Maybe when she's looking for the next npc in line you could package or moveto on the npc to her?

3. Worst case when she finishes a scene on an event is it possible to issue a Stop to all SexLab scenes running?

 

Just tossing out thoughts.

Edited July 27, 2025 by eflat01

[nukacola1989]

Having an issue toward the beginning of Unknown Pleasures. After talking to the innkeeper and his daughter in Dawnstar, the quest points me to Nightcaller Temple, but doesn't trigger the next stage once arriving at the temple or going inside. The quest marker is on a pillar near the mid level of the temple if that matters. I've already completed Waking Nightmare, in case that also matters. 

[killer905]

25 minutes ago, nukacola1989 said:

Having an issue toward the beginning of Unknown Pleasures. After talking to the innkeeper and his daughter in Dawnstar, the quest points me to Nightcaller Temple, but doesn't trigger the next stage once arriving at the temple or going inside. The quest marker is on a pillar near the mid level of the temple if that matters. I've already completed Waking Nightmare, in case that also matters. 

After talking to Inn's daughter, an NPC named Otto should approach you. ForceGreet.

[nukacola1989]

12 minutes ago, killer905 said:

After talking to Inn's daughter, an NPC named Otto should approach you. ForceGreet.

Interesting, that didn't happen at all the first time! But it's fine now, I appreciate it, sorry for being a dummy lol

[killer905]

7 minutes ago, nukacola1989 said:

Interesting, that didn't happen at all the first time! But it's fine now, I appreciate it, sorry for being a dummy lol

Skyrim engine so...

[Ambustin]

Suggestion for clothing:
In the dialogue options, there's a line "About Outfits" with the current options for giving her a custom outfit and returning to her mage clothing.
What would you think about including the lines for the "outfits" that were unlocked during quests?
For example:

Spoiler

"I'd like you to wear the vampire outfit."
"I'd like you to wear the thrall clothing."
"I'd like to see you in the nocturnal dress."
Well, you get the idea.
 

I love the idea of "collecting" new outfits for Tirwin.

Edited July 27, 2025 by Ambustin

[apEna]

4 hours ago, Gristle said:

In the next update, I'll try putting in a slight delay in between the activation of the script and the above. Maybe I'm trying to calm him too quickly -- before his activation script has finished making him hostile.  It works for me, but could be affected by different CPUs/papyrus loads.

Yeah my installation is old and bloated and I'm too lazy to do anything about it.

But maybe the problem is not only Gygax since you need two people for a fight and pacify is an AOE spell. Maybe Valerica has enough time to get to fighting mood and making Gygax to calm down won't help anymore. Dunno just seen some weird stuff in Skyrim where calming one person won't help and just guessing.

 

At the party it was the Orc that I manged to block from Tirwin but after the reload the orc had the waiting dialogue so I would just leave this as basic scene progression problem.

 

About the bottle CTD, ran back in and tested with and without my modification:

Spoiler

and if eflat01 already tested the blank effect then its the OBND and I have no idea what it even is.

[bingyouup]

I'm having some trouble and would love some help. I'm currently on the "Bareback Riding" quest, I'm at the rieklings mine and after entering, she did follow the riekling down. She does mention that she will take down her armor. I have tried reloading, enable/disable, leaving and re-entering, fast traveling away, restarting the game all together. Used SL debug to hopefully reset her AI and nothing. 

[killer905]

1 hour ago, Ambustin said:

Suggestion for clothing:
In the dialogue options, there's a line "About Outfits" with the current options for giving her a custom outfit and returning to her mage clothing.
What would you think about including the lines for the "outfits" that were unlocked during quests?
For example:

  Hide contents

"I'd like you to wear the vampire outfit."
"I'd like you to wear the thrall clothing."
"I'd like to see you in the nocturnal dress."
Well, you get the idea.
 

I love the idea of "collecting" new outfits for Tirwin.

I doubt she would want to wear the thrall outfit, but Vampire and Nocturnal are more likely.

To be honest, theoretically we could find a few cool outfits (permissions required), but there's a problem with different body types like CBBE or UNP, etc.

Alternatively, we could stick with Vanilla armour and clothing, but what outfits could PC possibly get for Tirwin then?

[killer905]

9 minutes ago, bingyouup said:

I'm having some trouble and would love some help. I'm currently on the "Bareback Riding" quest, I'm at the rieklings mine and after entering, she did follow the riekling down. She does mention that she will take down her armor. I have tried reloading, enable/disable, leaving and re-entering, fast traveling away, restarting the game all together. Used SL debug to hopefully reset her AI and nothing. 

As far as I remember, she should put on a headdress and undress before entering the mine. Of course, after talking to the PC near the mine.

[bingyouup]

16 minutes ago, killer905 said:

一个s far as I remember, she should put on a headdress and undress before entering the mine. Of course, after talking to the PC near the mine.

Well, according to what triwin saids, yeah—she did take off the headdress deep in the cave, but she didn't remove her clothes. In addition, Naryu didn't show up either. So I'm just gonna skip this quest. Anyway, great story, good mod.

[killer905]

5 minutes ago, bingyouup said:

Well, according to what triwin saids, yeah—she did take off the headdress deep in the cave, but she didn't remove her clothes. In addition, Naryu didn't show up either. So I'm just gonna skip this quest. Anyway, great story, good mod.

This mean quest get broken at this point. @Gristle can help with this.

[eflat01]

2 hours ago, apEna said:

Yeah my installation is old and bloated and I'm too lazy to do anything about it.

But maybe the problem is not only Gygax since you need two people for a fight and pacify is an AOE spell. Maybe Valerica has enough time to get to fighting mood and making Gygax to calm down won't help anymore. Dunno just seen some weird stuff in Skyrim where calming one person won't help and just guessing.

 

At the party it was the Orc that I manged to block from Tirwin but after the reload the orc had the waiting dialogue so I would just leave this as basic scene progression problem.

 

About the bottle CTD, ran back in and tested with and without my modification:

  Hide contents

and if eflat01 already tested the blank effect then its the OBND and I have no idea what it even is.

I'm really not a graphics person, just an old C coder. My basic understanding is object bound is metadata generated off the object's 3D model. Basically it's a bounding box for orientation, to prevent strange overstack on a common point or space iow, used in havoc collision physics. In Skyrim they're often inaccurate especially for furniture. It's not used for 3D culling and rendering as far as I know? Typically the NiBound sphere within a NIF file is the default instead, or so I was told. I think they're a x,y,z pair.

 

I never did check because I did not notice, but what are the object bounds values for the other bottles? The other cum potion bottles are fine.
 

I found the basic model it was taken from but I do not understand why the Object Bounds could even be the problem?

 

Spoiler

 

Edited July 28, 2025 by eflat01

[eflat01]

5 hours ago, killer905 said:

After talking to Inn's daughter, an NPC named Otto should approach you. ForceGreet.

 

She does have a name ya know. 😛 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Otto pretty much bum-rushed us every time, I don't know how they missed him unless they were next to the door?

Edited July 28, 2025 by eflat01

[killer905]

Hey! I have created two patches for:

Immersive Citizens AI Overhaul - LE and SE/AE

JK's Solitude Outskirts - SE/AE

 

Both fixes relate to the ‘Chase’ quest. Flying bedrolls on the ship in Solstheim, and instead of appearing on the ship in the port of Solitude, PC, NPCs and some obejcts appear above the water in the port.

They work well on my LE/SE setup, but I would appreciate confirmation from others.

 

@Gristle Note for you. While creating the patch and testing it, I noticed that the Thalmor Soldier in Solitude harbour is always ‘enabled’ before and during the quest. I forgot to check if he is still there after completing the ‘Chase’ quest.

 

Note 2: You forget add in Changelog. "We can visit Deer and Bear again after quest"

 

BONUS:

Spoiler

Skyrim... by Todd Howard 

 

 

Animal Research Immersive Citizens AI Overhaul Patch.zip Animal Research JKs Solitude Outskirts Patch.zip

Edited July 28, 2025 by killer905