Advanced Nudity Detection

[icdtdave]

36 minutes ago, NymphoElf said:

I understand. I took a more restrictive approach in order to prevent "runaway" immodesty, which would have defeated the purpose of the feature. I will look into alternatives, but I don't want you to be able to just strip naked and gain immodesty right away either. It's supposed to be more of a "frog in boiling water" approach.

Fair enough.  I was testing with C5Kev's micro-bikini, so...not really a valid starting point by that philosophy.  I wasn't really planning on using that long term.  I guess I'll find out how much I like the modesty feature in casual play, but I think my concern is still valid when looking at users' actual load orders.  How many non-vanilla outfits do we have?  How many are in loot tables?  Is there a smooth curve of revealing clothing?  The answers to these questions have big effects on what this mod even does.  Some users may not even be able to go past level 2 without stripping naked.

 

I'm not even sure if this a criticism or just an observation at this point.  I love the ideas here though and hopefully we get some more mods down the line that use the features you have here.

[NymphoElf]

39 minutes ago, icdtdave said:

I think my concern is still valid when looking at users' actual load orders.  How many non-vanilla outfits do we have?  How many are in loot tables?  Is there a smooth curve of revealing clothing?  The answers to these questions have big effects on what this mod even does.  Some users may not even be able to go past level 2 without stripping naked.

 

I'm not even sure if this a criticism or just an observation at this point.

 

This is quite valid, and something I hadn't fully considered. It's easy as a mod developer to only consider the mods you use yourself and forget that others exist. Likewise, it's also hard to plan for every other potential mod without making the feature too generalized and watered down, though such a watered down variant may be necessary to even be properly functional for some people.

 

I have an idea in mind for a "simplicity" toggle which will at least make it possible to progress/regress in every scenario. However, you will get a "debuff" to the speed you gain immodesty if you're not in the "sweet spot" for your current rank. Perhaps that's how it should be by default instead? Regardless, this is valuable feedback. Thank you

Edited July 9, 2025 by NymphoElf

[Arkbar.]

8 hours ago, icdtdave said:

I'm not a fan of the progression chart to go up ranks.  Right now it kinda seems like I need to write down or memorize that chart because it requires very specific conditions, for example from level 1 to 2 is only fulfilled by showing underwear.  Seems pretty restrictive to not count more extreme outfits toward your progression. 

 

I actually prefer it like that. The point of the modesty faction is that the player gradually eases into more revealing outfits. Where gradually is the key part.

 

Logically makes more sense. Imagine a modest girl thats uncomforable even with the idea of wearing a bikini, being thrown out naked, she will be so distraught that she will never be at ease with being naked in public.

 

The same girl in the beach, having to wear a bikini, becomes comfortable doing so, now she will be more open to more daring outfits, but without learning to wear bikini first is not possible.

 

 

Also is not as restrictive as you think.

To progress from modest to reasonable, you have to show a bra, incidentally there is no bottom check, meaning you could even be bottomless and still progress. (Maybe that's a bug)

 

But nevertheless the intention is that you could wear full bikini and progress no issues from modest to relaxed ( from 0to2) 

Then you can progress from relaxed to tease (4) by just wearing any no cover top/bottom.

 

The only stricter check is from tease to brazen, where you must be topless but not  bottomless. Shameless is just naked

 

[NymphoElf]

10 hours ago, Arkbar. said:

incidentally there is no bottom check, meaning you could even be bottomless and still progress. (Maybe that's a bug)

 

That is a bug.

 

I'm working on a revamped system that tracks Top and Bottom modesty separately. Maybe that will help bridge the gap, because I understand the original concern. Some people may not be playing with enough Skimpy outfits installed to obtain every possible nudity state, therefore making progressing to certain ranks impossible. However, I'm still going to make the system be as realistic as possible.

 

Using your same example, that shy girl will eventually get over her embarrassment if she's forced to be naked for a long enough time. It will just take longer than it otherwise would have.

 

I'll keep the strict system as an option for those who want/like it though.

[Arkbar.]

Indeed is possible not every outfit combination exists to properly progress across every stage, or even if it exists only 1 outfit could allow the progression, so some users may be stuck. 

 

Another thing I also noticed while double checking the code is that the progression is deliberate, but the regression is not. Meaning that if the player is shameless and equips a vanilla armor will regress. I assumed this is not a bug.

 

1 hour ago, NymphoElf said:

I'm working on a revamped system that tracks Top and Bottom modesty separately.

 

Even if you are tracking top/bottom modesty separately, will the existing modesty faction ranks still be the same ? if not, let me know so I can prepare a patch before hand. 

I've been thinking about the progression/nudity factions for the most part there are "3 tracks" depending on the different nudity levels
1- Chests: Covered -> Showing bra -> Showing boobs -> topless -> Naked
2- Bottom Covered -> Showing underwear -> Showing genitals -> Bottomless -> Naked
3- Ass covered -> Showing ass -> Bottomless -> Naked
 

The modesty faction only cares about chest/bottom coverage, but no ass (due to it's inherent relation with DFFM, all this feels like there is something there to optimize, but from the top of my head I cannot point it, like there should be a top exposure faction,  a bottom exposure faction, and and ass exposure faction and maybe a naked faction, that way the check if for the faction rank only, but I'm not sure what do you think ? 

Since you are talking about improvements: 

Can I request an API for maximum modesty faction level ?  (by default is 6/7). I'm thinking of making a mod that provides buffs and debuffs based on modesty faction and exposure, It's very early stage, so I'm barely at the planning stage, but in my head the full progression should be capped by perks so you need to spend perk points to be able to reach the shameless stage, hence an API would be useful. 

[NymphoElf]

23 minutes ago, Arkbar. said:

The modesty faction only cares about chest/bottom coverage, but no ass (due to it's inherent relation with DFFM, all this feels like there is something there to optimize, but from the top of my head I cannot point it, like there should be a top exposure faction,  a bottom exposure faction, and and ass exposure faction and maybe a naked faction, that way the check if for the faction rank only, but I'm not sure what do you think ? 

 

DFFMA doesn't have a butt/ass covering animation, so there's no use for tracking that right now. I supposed it could still be implemented, but it would be more difficult to properly test than the others.

 

Additionally, Nude is simply the combination of Topless and Bottomless in most scenarios. It's exceedingly rare to be both Topless and Bottomless without also being Nude. Therefore Nude is pretty much pointless to track separately for Modesty. If you're comfortable being both Topless and Bottomless, then suddenly not being comfortable when you're Nude doesn't make any sense.

 

31 minutes ago, Arkbar. said:

Can I request an API for maximum modesty faction level ?  (by default is 6/7). I'm thinking of making a mod that provides buffs and debuffs based on modesty faction and exposure, It's very early stage, so I'm barely at the planning stage, but in my head the full progression should be capped by perks so you need to spend perk points to be able to reach the shameless stage, hence an API would be useful. 

 

Yes, I believe implementing an API at this stage is reasonable. I will begin working on that when I can.

[Arkbar.]

2 hours ago, NymphoElf said:

Additionally, Nude is simply the combination of Topless and Bottomless in most scenarios. It's exceedingly rare to be both Topless and Bottomless without also being Nude. Therefore Nude is pretty much pointless to track separately for Modesty. If you're comfortable being both Topless and Bottomless, then suddenly not being comfortable when you're Nude doesn't make any sense.

 

 

I understand that, I was just "thinking aloud" over your described "rewrite" and if there is a way to make it easier to track the nudity conditions both for AND and for the modesty progression. 

Instead of having one faction for each possible condition (AND_nude, AND_show_chest, and_show_bra, etc), it might be easier to implement/debug to have less factions
AND_NUDE, AND_TOP, AND_BOTTOM, AND_ASS
therefore you can be AND_NUDE = 0,1
If AND_NUDE==0, then you can check the other options. 
AND_TOP = {Covered=0, Show_Bra =1, Show_Boobs = 2, Topless = 3}
AND_Bottom = {Covered=0, Show_panties =1, Show_genitals = 2, Bottomless = 3}
AND_ASS = {Covered = 0, Show_ass = 1}

That way, to check if it makes sense to progress from relaxed->Comfortable the condition becomes 
AND_NUDE == 0 && (AND_TOP == 2 && AND_BOTTOM ==1) /// Strict mode
AND_NUDE == 1 || AND_TOP >=2 && AND_BOTTOM >=1 // simple mode


As I mentioned It's  just an idea, not fully fleshed out (is your mod after all), and it might introduce a breaking change (Although legacy factions can just be AND_SHOW_BRA = (AND_TOP==1))

 

 

[StrayHALO_MAN]

Why did you get rid of Baka Keywords?
I used to use B.o.o.b.i.e.s to distribute keywords with this mod and now I can't.

[IBAGadget]

1 hour ago, StrayHALO_MAN said:

Why did you get rid of Baka Keywords?
I used to use B.o.o.b.i.e.s to distribute keywords with this mod and now I can't.

Keyword distribution hasn't changed. Baka keywords are just no longer used for determining nudity level (as it should be - the AND keywords are far more comprehensive) 

 

I still use Baka keywords in my game, I've just never used them for determining nudity since AND was released. Baka keywords are relegated to affecting arousal and that's it. Those keywords are still distributed in the same KID files I use for distributing AND keywords.

[StrayHALO_MAN]

51 minutes ago, IBAGadget said:

Keyword distribution hasn't changed. Baka keywords are just no longer used for determining nudity level (as it should be - the AND keywords are far more comprehensive) 

 

I still use Baka keywords in my game, I've just never used them for determining nudity since AND was released. Baka keywords are relegated to affecting arousal and that's it. Those keywords are still distributed in the same KID files I use for distributing AND keywords.

Yes but things like SLA_Top and bottom are good for pants and tops, you don't have to use all the key words just keep the ones that have parody with AND for the sake of compatibility.
I'm probably just going to uninstall because b.o.o.b.i.e.s doesn't use AND keywords yet.

Edited July 11, 2025 by StrayHALO_MAN

[Arkbar.]

10 hours ago, StrayHALO_MAN said:

Yes but things like SLA_Top and bottom are good for pants and tops, you don't have to use all the key words just keep the ones that have parody with AND for the sake of compatibility.

 

You have a point, but is not even enough to keep those keywords, if you don't want to use and keywords you can just add a simple kid file. Something like baja_and_kid.

 

And do 

Keyword=and_hotpants | SLA_hotpants 

 

or something like that, Sorry I'm not at my PC and can't provide a good example. 

 

But the idea is Similar to how the boobies file handle the bikini license for high heels.

Just check the optional file for how its done and slap a few keywords accordingly.

 

I won't do it, because baka keywords are inadequate for and. 

 

Note that this is a general issue, think for example of Pash and caekd, neither and, nor baka keywords are adequate for it

 

Edited July 11, 2025 by Arkbar.

[IBAGadget]

11 hours ago, StrayHALO_MAN said:

Yes but things like SLA_Top and bottom are good for pants and tops,

AND_ArmorTop

AND_ArmorBottom

 

Baka Keywords were designed to be used for Sexlab Aroused for determining arousal gain (thus the SLA prefix), and they can still be used together with AND. Use AND for determining nudity level (which is what it is designed for) and use SLA Keywords, in conjunction with Sexlab Aroused, OSLAroused, or SLO Aroused NG for character arousal.

 

As far as B.O.O.B.I.E.S goes, it just assigns new icons to items based on the keywords you have applied. You can still use the Baka keywords with your outfits for Icon integration, you just won't be using them for nudity determination. They are not mutually exclusive.

[StrayHALO_MAN]

8 hours ago, IBAGadget said:

AND_ArmorTop

AND_ArmorBottom

 

Baka Keywords were designed to be used for Sexlab Aroused for determining arousal gain (thus the SLA prefix), and they can still be used together with AND. Use AND for determining nudity level (which is what it is designed for) and use SLA Keywords, in conjunction with Sexlab Aroused, OSLAroused, or SLO Aroused NG for character arousal.

 

As far as B.O.O.B.I.E.S goes, it just assigns new icons to items based on the keywords you have applied. You can still use the Baka keywords with your outfits for Icon integration, you just won't be using them for nudity determination. They are not mutually exclusive.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/106672
This mod for B.o.o.b.i.e.s is what I'm talking about, it adds the keywords to ALOT of armors including all of vanilla.
Arkbar made a good point, I could make the SLA keywords equal the AND ones in keyword distributor and that would get the job done.
And btw I don't use skimpy armor, I use modular armor so having both SLA_ArmorTop and bottoms both equipped will not raise arousal, only if I am missing one or the other.

[IBAGadget]

1 hour ago, StrayHALO_MAN said:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/106672
This mod for B.o.o.b.i.e.s is what I'm talking about, it adds the keywords to ALOT of armors including all of vanilla.
Arkbar made a good point, I could make the SLA keywords equal the AND ones in keyword distributor and that would get the job done.
And btw I don't use skimpy armor, I use modular armor so having both SLA_ArmorTop and bottoms both equipped will not raise arousal, only if I am missing one or the other.

I use that same patch hub, as it distributes SLA Keywords to a lot of armor/clothing mods that I use in my game.
While I don't use all of them, the ones I do have I have edited the KID files to also distribute the necessary AND keywords - a simple task of copy/paste editing using Notepad++ and changing the keyword in the newly added line.

[Arkbar.]

Not exactly what I meant.

 

I said that you can use

 

Keyword = and_keyword|armor|baka_keyword

 

This adds an and keyword to all items that have that baka keyword.

 

This is a mediocre solution though, because baka keywords are inadequate for AND, and  some items may have more than 1 baka keyword, which could introduce conflicting AND keywords

 

But that would reproduce the old support

[nunyabidnez]

On 1/6/2025 at 11:17 AM, Chlodwig said:

Ater all these esp esm esl etc. files are not in the Skyrim folder  but in the Mod Organizer2 I guess it should work if I just create a custom mod in Mod Organizer and put all the AND Ini files into it. Hope that it works because I think this mod is much better than the other armor detection mods availble in Skyrim and I really want to use it.

 

Update:

Nice it works with Mod Organizer2
Installed your AND FOMOD for TAWOBA and some other AND-Inifiles provided on the exchange page

Created a Custom Empty Mod and move all the ini files into it

activated it

and it works in game.

 

 

-------------

So it works very nice and I will have to create a lot of Ini files for my clothes

and I tried to create a AND ini file for

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/102730
 

and either I did something wrong or i I found a bug.

 

it looks like that when wearing Showgirlskirt and Thong together the System is accidently detecting the "showing pussy" as correct (yes)

but as far as I understood the Thong it should cover genitals and show ass

so the combination Thong and Showgirlskirt should cover ass  (Showgirlskirt) and pussy (thong)

but AND says "showing pussy yes"

 

These are the keywords I use for Thong/Underwear and Gown:

Keyword = AND_Thong|Armor|[COCO] Twilight Sorceress Briefs I

Keyword = AND_ShowgirlSkirt|Armor|[COCO] Twilight Sorceress Gown I

Keyword = AND_ArmorTop_NoCover|Armor|[COCO] Twilight Sorceress Gown I

 

and for test purpose

Keyword = AND_Underwear|Armor|[COCO] Twilight Sorceress Briefs II

 

on their own everything is correct

when useing clothing with Thong Tag and the other Clothing with Showgirlskirt Tag  it gets detect as uncovered pussy  (showing pussy yes)

when using clothes with Underwear Tag and the other clothes with showgirlskirt Tag eveything is fine and Pussy is considered covered (showing pussy no)

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry to necro such an old post, but did it matter where in your load order this was?

[Chlodwig]

3 hours ago, nunyabidnez said:

I'm sorry to necro such an old post, but did it matter where in your load order this was?

 

after this empty mod for the KID files has no esp or esm files in it,  it is not a part of the load order.
But on the left side of Mod Organizer2  I placed it next to the last mod so that no other mod could accidently overwrite it.

but there shouldn't be any other mod who could overwrite the KID Ini files anyways

[nunyabidnez]

3 minutes ago, Chlodwig said:

 

after this empty mod for the KID files has no esp or esm files in it,  it is not a part of the load order.
But on the left side of Mod Organizer2  I placed it next to the last mod so that no other mod could accidently overwrite it.

but there shouldn't be any other mod who could overwrite the KID Ini files anyways

 

Thank you!  And, I should have know that about load order, lol.  Wasn't thinking.

[Björnus]

First of all, awesome mod!

 

I think I might have found a bug/compatibility issue with DD though.

When I tried adding a keyword to a DeviousDevice via the keyword editor in OSLAroused, it did not register in AND (verified by checking in MCM Menu).

So first I thought this might have been an issue with using OSL Aroused.

Therefore I tried creating a custom KID file, to see if it works that way:

 

Keyword = AND_Thong|Armor|*Chastity Belt
Keyword = AND_Thong|Armor|Miner's Clothes
Keyword = AND_Bra|Armor|*Chastity Bra
Keyword = AND_ChestCurtain|Armor|Copper and Moonstone Circlet

 

I could verify via the OSLAroused keyword editor, that this KID file worked. I also defined some other items for testing in the KID file, which were correctly handled by AND.

However for DD items the issue persisted: OSL shows these items have the keywords attached, but AND seemingly can't process them.

 

I have tried with DDs from just DD, Cursed loot and unforgiving devices, but all show the same behaviour.

I have also tried moving the mod to the start and end of the load-order (to make sure nothing is being overwritten), but to no avail.

 

Anyone else experiencing this?

Anyone know what causes this or found a workaround?

[NymphoElf]

@Björnus - Devious Devices has a complicated equipment setup. There's an Inventory Object and a Scripted Object for each device (such as Bras, Belts, etc). When you activate the Inventory Object, it equips the Scripted Object. (If I'm understanding how DD works properly)

 

AND only sees/processes equipped objects. So I believe your issue is due to the Inventory Object having the keyword but the actual equipped object not having it.

 

Could you perhaps try the Devious Devices KID file posted in the KID File Share? I believe theirs works properly.

Edited July 23, 2025 by NymphoElf

[Björnus]

1 hour ago, NymphoElf said:

@Björnus - Devious Devices has a complicated equipment setup. There's an Inventory Object and a Scripted Object for each device (such as Bras, Belts, etc). When you activate the Inventory Object, it equips the Scripted Object. (If I'm understanding how DD works properly)

 

AND only sees/processes equipped objects. So I believe your issue is due to the Inventory Object having the keyword but the actual equipped object not having it.

 

Could you perhaps try the Devious Devices KID file posted in the KID File Share? I believe theirs works properly.

I see, that makes sense. Thanks a lot for the explanation!!

 

I did a quick test with the file from the fileshare, but could not get it to work from the get-go.

But knowing  what likely causes the issues I have some suspicions on what could be the reason for it still not working on my end.

I'll try verifying those and see where that get's me

[SpicyBoi24]

Question: Am I able to put KID files inside their own folder in the Data folder, for organization sake, or will AND not be able to use them if I do that?

[IBAGadget]

6 minutes ago, SpicyBoi24 said:

Question: Am I able to put KID files inside their own folder in the Data folder, for organization sake, or will AND not be able to use them if I do that?

Likely won't be able to find them. 
The Data folder is organized alphabetically, so all your AND KID files should wind up together anyway, as they will all start with AND_

[SpicyBoi24]

24 minutes ago, IBAGadget said:

Likely won't be able to find them. 

 

Thought so.

 

25 minutes ago, IBAGadget said:

The Data folder is organized alphabetically, so all your AND KID files should wind up together anyway, as they will all start with AND_

 

But didnt even think about that. 

 

Thanks!

[NymphoElf]

4 hours ago, SpicyBoi24 said:

Question: Am I able to put KID files inside their own folder in the Data folder, for organization sake, or will AND not be able to use them if I do that?

 

It's not about AND finding the ini file, it's about KID finding the ini file. KID needs the ini file to be in the Data folder. Pretty sure you can't put it in a sub-folder.

AND doesn't need an ini file. It only needs keywords to exist on the items you wear in-game. KID is simply the method I recommend for applying those keywords.

As long as the keywords get applied to your armor/clothes, it doesn't matter what method you use.

Edited July 28, 2025 by NymphoElf