unforgiving devices Unforgiving Skyrim LE/SE

[kurotatsu]

Don't forget that number of taken perks in the appropriate tree also gets into calculation. So using type of struggle which uses the tree with more perks you have will be more effective.

 

However I have to remind you that this discussion is better fit for the UD thread, as US (this mod) doesn't changes the base UD mechanics in any way.

[belegost]

On 10/13/2023 at 9:15 AM, kurotatsu said:

So far only Deviously Pink is known to modify navmesh around the house which prevents Nodaba going to the house. To fix it you need to ensure that US lower in the load order than DP

 

I don't have this mod and and US is pretty far down the list. I checked Worldspace records in xEdit. Nodaba stayed in Bannered Mare and I only realised she probably should've moved when I talked to her after paying Hulda.

 

I assume the house is in cell D74, which is modified by a gaziilion other mods, but they all have the same record. The list goes on, and on, and on. The last thing on the highlighted record in DynDOLOD.esp, which, as you can see removes all the records preceding it. But that has never been a problem with navmesh before.

 

In all the other records you see below, US is dead last with nothing overwriting it.

 

I am using JK's Whiterun and JK's Whiterun Outskirts, but they do not cover the location of the house as it is pretty far down the road, and US is loaded after them. Any ideas?

 

Here's a plugin order for reference:

plugins.txt

Edited November 21, 2024 by belegost

[kurotatsu]

In your load order Unforgiving Skyrim is not at very end of load order.

I assume you're on Skyrim AE 1170?

On my Skyrim AE 1170 even placing it at the very end didn't solved navmesh issues, so I ended moving the house and redoing navmesh from scratch.

Before it was encroaching a little onto Tundra Homestead, which was not present on the LE where it was initially developed.

The latest version of US is pushed to the GitHub, naturally it's tailored to the latest UD NB.

[belegost]

4 hours ago, kurotatsu said:

I assume you're on Skyrim AE 1170

No, I'm on 1.5.97. No fishing, no survival shit (we use proper survival mods here!), no tundra homes, no whatever else Tod in his infinite wisdom wanted to shove down my throat. The house is not surrounded by anything except tundra. Even JK's buffed up farms are some distance away.

Edited November 22, 2024 by belegost

[kurotatsu]

5 hours ago, belegost said:

No, I'm on 1.5.97. No fishing, no survival shit (we use proper survival mods here!), no tundra homes, no whatever else Tod in his infinite wisdom wanted to shove down my throat. The house is not surrounded by anything except tundra. Even JK's buffed up farms are some distance away.

 

Aha, then I would recommend to actually move US esp to the last(or close to it) position in the load order and check it again.

[belegost]

1 hour ago, kurotatsu said:

 

Aha, then I would recommend to actually move US esp to the last(or close to it) position in the load order and check it again.

Can't move it below LAL and AYOP. Those are late loaders for a reason. Anyway I already progressed with a quest a bit, moved Nodaba via consoe. Will check again on new character, once I'm done with current playthrough.

Edited November 22, 2024 by belegost

[Siev]

Deleting my post, was a technical issue caused by Bodyslide pointing to the wrong skyrim install. Sorry for any confusion!

Edited November 22, 2024 by Siev

[kurotatsu]

12 hours ago, belegost said:

Can't move it below LAL and AYOP. Those are late loaders for a reason. Anyway I already progressed with a quest a bit, moved Nodaba via consoe. Will check again on new character, once I'm done with current playthrough.

 

My favorite navmesh testing method is by using follower. If follower able to go after you inside and then outside - everything is fine with navmesh.

[belegost]

4 hours ago, kurotatsu said:

 

My favorite navmesh testing method is by using follower. If follower able to go after you inside and then outside - everything is fine with navmesh.

Well, they don't. In fact in one instance I got the message "Your follower cannot accompany you here". They will approach the house and walk by the door and walls, but they will not follow inside. I assumed this was intentional.

However, when loading inside of the house my character makes this weird landing animation as if they spawned half a metre above the floor and dropped down.

 

Moreover, I'm not sure if this is intended but the house looks like this:
 

The door on the left is the entrance.

The door to the right do not lead anywhere. Not sure if that is intended or I get a bonus house warped into the proper one.

Edited November 23, 2024 by belegost

[kurotatsu]

Yep, door to the right is not used yet. Follower not coming inside means navmesh is borked, sorry.

My guess - something changed in the landscape in SE compared to LE, thus breaking LE-generated navmesh in that place.

[belegost]

1 hour ago, kurotatsu said:

Follower not coming inside means navmesh is borked, sorry.

Hm, I wonder if that's the reason why followers won't go into Laura's shop with me. Always assumed it was intentional, but now I have second thoughts.

 

Question: does Notaba actually walk into the house? As in, leaves the inn, walks all the way down to the gate, then stables, meadery, farms, etc?

 

If so, wouldn't it be a better solution to have her warp there? She could still leave the inn via load door, but once she activates, instead of appearing in Whiterun, gets teleported directly to the house. It would still be immersive from player's point of view but bypass all the navmesh issues. I'm not sure if that is possible to implement, but that's one idea I had.

Edited November 23, 2024 by belegost

[belegost]

Oh, oh, and while I'm already here, there is one more thing I noticed. Sorry for being such a cunt, but... I have a suggestion (yes I do, and I do know how much mod authors love suggestions).

 

Anyway, Bound Cunt set can easily be removed by using DCL's Universal Key. All of it. From the description it appears as this one should take effort to get rid of, but said key trivialises the whole process. I don't know if possible but I thought it would be cool to have at least the collar being immune to it, so you actually have to work to get rid of it. I like the interactions when NPC's notice the collar, it adds that much incentive to dispose of it quickly (or not, whatever rocks one's boat), but Universal  Key makes that a non-issue once you get a discount from Calcelmo.

 

EDIT:

I've been reading through your first post and noticed this:

 

On 4/6/2023 at 9:06 PM, kurotatsu said:

Wearing full BC set will open up ability to craft it at forge from leather and concentrated black goo.

Without spoiling much, is it possible to get another set once I've got enchanting station from Calcelmo's ? I got rid of the set, but didn't know at the time this was an option.

 

Second question: having completed all Nodaba's tasks she appears to have no more interactions. After placing money and goo into the chest, she did unlock several recipes, but there are no clues about next step. Journal say something about an ingot, is that a subtle hint towards Abaddon Plug quest? Or should I go to Urag and do some stuff for him?

Edited November 23, 2024 by belegost

[Guest]

1 hour ago, belegost said:

Oh, oh, and while I'm already here, there is one more thing I noticed. Sorry for being such a cunt, but... I have a suggestion (yes I do, and I do know how much mod authors love suggestions).

 

Anyway, Bound Cunt set can easily be removed by using DCL's Universal Key. All of it. From the description it appears as this one should take effort to get rid of, but said key trivialises the whole process. I don't know if possible but I thought it would be cool to have at least the collar being immune to it, so you actually have to work to get rid of it. I like the interactions when NPC's notice the collar, it adds that much incentive to dispose of it quickly (or not, whatever rocks one's boat), but Universal  Key makes that a non-issue once you get a discount from Calcelmo.

 

EDIT:

I've been reading through your first post and noticed this:

 

Without spoiling much, is it possible to get another set once I've got enchanting station from Calcelmo's ? I got rid of the set, but didn't know at the time this was an option.

 

Second question: having completed all Nodaba's tasks she appears to have no more interactions. After placing money and goo into the chest, she did unlock several recipes, but there are no clues about next step. Journal say something about an ingot, is that a subtle hint towards Abaddon Plug quest? Or should I go to Urag and do some stuff for him?

Universal keys are rare. 

 

As far as I know, they only spawn in boss chests.

 

BC set is not really dangerous.

 

If a player wants to waste one in them, I would allow him.

 

He will miss that key when locked in a nasty set of abadon stuff.

[kurotatsu]

2 hours ago, belegost said:

Hm, I wonder if that's the reason why followers won't go into Laura's shop with me. Always assumed it was intentional, but now I have second thoughts.

 

Question: does Notaba actually walk into the house? As in, leaves the inn, walks all the way down to the gate, then stables, meadery, farms, etc?

 

If so, wouldn't it be a better solution to have her warp there? She could still leave the inn via load door, but once she activates, instead of appearing in Whiterun, gets teleported directly to the house. It would still be immersive from player's point of view but bypass all the navmesh issues. I'm not sure if that is possible to implement, but that's one idea I had.

 

Quite possibly, LBS suffers from the same navmesh problems. It actually makes one of the later quests to misbehave.

 

Actually quite some time ago I've added failsafe into v2 WIP version, available at GitHub. But it's designed to work with UD3, available there too, which is all tuned up for DD NG and OSL Aroused...

 

1 hour ago, belegost said:

Oh, oh, and while I'm already here, there is one more thing I noticed. Sorry for being such a cunt, but... I have a suggestion (yes I do, and I do know how much mod authors love suggestions).

 

Anyway, Bound Cunt set can easily be removed by using DCL's Universal Key. All of it. From the description it appears as this one should take effort to get rid of, but said key trivialises the whole process. I don't know if possible but I thought it would be cool to have at least the collar being immune to it, so you actually have to work to get rid of it. I like the interactions when NPC's notice the collar, it adds that much incentive to dispose of it quickly (or not, whatever rocks one's boat), but Universal  Key makes that a non-issue once you get a discount from Calcelmo.

 

EDIT:

I've been reading through your first post and noticed this:

 

Without spoiling much, is it possible to get another set once I've got enchanting station from Calcelmo's ? I got rid of the set, but didn't know at the time this was an option.

 

Second question: having completed all Nodaba's tasks she appears to have no more interactions. After placing money and goo into the chest, she did unlock several recipes, but there are no clues about next step. Journal say something about an ingot, is that a subtle hint towards Abaddon Plug quest? Or should I go to Urag and do some stuff for him?

 

@try again. summed it up quite neatly, nothing to add here from me.

 

If your character agreed to become his Bound Cunt, he will have once a day some actions when spoken to, one of them is dressing up player in full set when they are not wearing any devices. It's random. Same applies to Farengar and Arcadia, but player has to have hidden masochism stat over 75, meaning they were having a lot of fun with various devices.

Once the quest marked as complete via the BC route - recipes are unlocked at forge, just grab bunch of conc black goo and leather and you're set.

 

Yep, ingot means the one from Abadon Plug quest (you get at least one after escaping the plug), bring it into the chest and research will progress. Don't forget, Abadon Plug quest requires you to kill your first dragon.

Edited November 23, 2024 by kurotatsu

[belegost]

2 hours ago, try again. said:

Universal keys are rare. 

With default DCL settings their drop rate is higher than any other key type and they are not exclusive to boss chests. It's rare, but can appear in other chests as well. Not in random containers, like other keys, but there are enough of them, that by carefully managing arousal and not getting trapped in every single dungeon I visit, by level 10 I have more than dozen stashed in safe storage somewhere. Other keys are divided into different parts for different devices and drop rate of those is so random that chances of having the right key for the right type of lock at the right time is practically null.

 

For example, I have no need for fifth chastity key, when I desperately need head restraints key, while my character is actively taking health damage and dying, because they are starving and dehydrated. Or freezes to death in some icy dungeon far to the north which they can't leave due to legbinder of some sort. The actually useful keys, even with "prefer useful keys" option are so rare, I usually console one in after enough time has passed that I get sufficiently annoyed and/or it actively soft locks me from any progress, no matter how slow.

 

They can also be lost when event happens. Universal Keys do not get lost. They are valuable, but they are more common than any other key type and can be carried safely without the risk of losing.

 

Thus I maintain that Bound Cunt set should be re-evaluated in terms of being subject to Universal Keys, as this - in my opinion of course - nullifies the idea (or at least my understanding of the idea) behind this set. The set can still be opened by struggling out and is less annoying during regular gameplay than some of the nastier things that DCL can punch you with out of the blue, but annoying just enough that you want to get rid of it after you had fun with it.

 

My original comment stems from the fact that I was equipped with BC collar while also already wearing other restraints. I wanted to get rid of them, but keep the collar before going to Calcelmo, as I suspected he would want to equip something which could potentially cause device conflict (and blocked SL animations), and I actually wanted to see what kind of devices he would use. Struggling out of 10 other devices was way too time consuming, therefore I used one Universal Key and to my disappointment BC collar also got removed along with other things.

 

@kurotatsu thank you for the explanation. As you can probably guess I've been playing through this mod a lot over the past couple of days. I think it's brilliant. Which makes me have my own opinions about certain things. Hopefully this is not coming off as I'm imposing myself on you.

Edited November 23, 2024 by belegost

[kurotatsu]

1 hour ago, belegost said:

My original comment stems from the fact that I was equipped with BC collar while also already wearing other restraints. I wanted to get rid of them, but keep the collar before going to Calcelmo, as I suspected he would want to equip something which could potentially cause device conflict (and blocked SL animations), and I actually wanted to see what kind of devices he would use.

 

Don't you worry, I've made sure to handle that scenario in scripts, I'm always trying to be prepared for "what if" situations.

Also you can ask Farengar for replacement collar if by some mistake you got rid of the previous one.

 

1 hour ago, belegost said:

@kurotatsu thank you for the explanation. As you can probably guess I've been playing through this mod a lot over the past couple of days. I think it's brilliant. Which makes me have my own opinions about certain things. Hopefully this is not coming off as I'm imposing myself on you.

 

Thank you very much for your kind comment. It's always a pleasure for modder to read something like this. And nothing wrong with having opinions and telling them, as long as you understand that in the end I would do whatever I feel the best in my opinion, which might contradict yours. Please have a lot of fun playing!

[Guest]

7 hours ago, belegost said:

With default DCL settings their drop rate is higher than any other key type and they are not exclusive to boss chests. It's rare, but can appear in other chests as well. Not in random containers, like other keys, but there are enough of them, that by carefully managing arousal and not getting trapped in every single dungeon I visit, by level 10 I have more than dozen stashed in safe storage somewhere. Other keys are divided into different parts for different devices and drop rate of those is so random that chances of having the right key for the right type of lock at the right time is practically null.

 

For example, I have no need for fifth chastity key, when I desperately need head restraints key, while my character is actively taking health damage and dying, because they are starving and dehydrated. Or freezes to death in some icy dungeon far to the north which they can't leave due to legbinder of some sort. The actually useful keys, even with "prefer useful keys" option are so rare, I usually console one in after enough time has passed that I get sufficiently annoyed and/or it actively soft locks me from any progress, no matter how slow.

 

They can also be lost when event happens. Universal Keys do not get lost. They are valuable, but they are more common than any other key type and can be carried safely without the risk of losing.

 

Thus I maintain that Bound Cunt set should be re-evaluated in terms of being subject to Universal Keys, as this - in my opinion of course - nullifies the idea (or at least my understanding of the idea) behind this set. The set can still be opened by struggling out and is less annoying during regular gameplay than some of the nastier things that DCL can punch you with out of the blue, but annoying just enough that you want to get rid of it after you had fun with it.

 

My original comment stems from the fact that I was equipped with BC collar while also already wearing other restraints. I wanted to get rid of them, but keep the collar before going to Calcelmo, as I suspected he would want to equip something which could potentially cause device conflict (and blocked SL animations), and I actually wanted to see what kind of devices he would use. Struggling out of 10 other devices was way too time consuming, therefore I used one Universal Key and to my disappointment BC collar also got removed along with other things.

 

@kurotatsu thank you for the explanation. As you can probably guess I've been playing through this mod a lot over the past couple of days. I think it's brilliant. Which makes me have my own opinions about certain things. Hopefully this is not coming off as I'm imposing myself on you.

I get your point.

 

And I will support @kurotatsu in wathever decision he takes on this mos development.

 

Just my opinion: there are things out there way worse than the BC set. I would save my keys for them.

 

- punishing clit devices with high orgasm device manifest are probably the best targets for those keys. (These  can be impossible to get free from otherwise).

 

- I also use them for not so big problems in really bad circumstances.

 

- when you see you won't be able to get free from a abadon plug before it gets to finisher.

[belegost]

1 hour ago, try again. said:

Just my opinion: there are things out there way worse than the BC set. I would save my keys for them.

(...)

when you see you won't be able to get free from a abadon plug before it gets to finisher.

The worst things are not in UD, but in DCL. Universal Keys work reliably on anything that was patched by UD. In DCL there are sets, that are not unlockable via Universal Keys and are far more dangerous.

 

I'm still yet to experience Abadon finisher. Actually sounds like something I might get into on purpose, just to see what happens.

 

And if anything else fails - there's always debug menu.

Edited November 23, 2024 by belegost

[iwanttoplaythegame]

I am unable to do certain struggle actions and I'm not sure why.

"You are too exhausted. Try later, after you regain your strength." pops up every time I try to struggle with magic, lockpick, or cut a device. I have no exhaustion effects, and this still happens. Turning off the max exhaustion option in mcm doesn't help.

[kurotatsu]

28 minutes ago, iwanttoplaythegame said:

I am unable to do certain struggle actions and I'm not sure why.

"You are too exhausted. Try later, after you regain your strength." pops up every time I try to struggle with magic, lockpick, or cut a device. I have no exhaustion effects, and this still happens. Turning off the max exhaustion option in mcm doesn't help.

 

This mod doesn't changes UD struggle mechanics, so your question better fit to UD thread.

Try going into UD MCM Debug and run general fixes.

[iwanttoplaythegame]

43 minutes ago, kurotatsu said:

 

This mod doesn't changes UD struggle mechanics, so your question better fit to UD thread.

Try going into UD MCM Debug and run general fixes.

Oops, sorry I misread the title and thought I was in the UD thread

[belegost]

I need a mod that makes pressure plates and chest traps less visible. It's very easy to avoid getting sprinkled with goo in dungeons because vanilla pressure plates and chest triggers are so obvious. Any recommendations?

 

I am also going to sing praise on how Abadon shout was implemented. My character was double-tagged by a team of Overlords while exploring Skyrim Sewers. The area was behind a fairly lengthy underwater tunnel so going back in full restraints was not an option. Fortunately I was able to continue after they had done their (dirty) deed and left her alone afterwards. Fully bound. I have to say this was one of the most thrilling, unpredictable adventures I have had in Skyrim since a long time ago. Darkness, helplessness, in the middle of a very lengthy dungeon and with hunger, thirst and cold creeping in.

Edited November 26, 2024 by belegost

[Zaflis]

1 hour ago, belegost said:

I need a mod that makes pressure plates and chest traps less visible. It's very easy to avoid getting sprinkled with goo in dungeons because vanilla pressure plates and chest triggers are so obvious. Any recommendations?

Subliminal Traps

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/5477

[belegost]

Saving inside the Inconspicuous House, then loading that save and saving again later, outside the house, creates a new character profile (SE). Also any auto-saves made inside the house are not overwritten by later auto-saves made outside and will take up disk space until manually removed.

 

If I recall correctly, there was a similar issue long ago with SL Surivival SE's kennels and the reason was incorrectly set or missing location flag for that cell. I suspect something like this may happening here.

Edited November 27, 2024 by belegost

[kurotatsu]

1 hour ago, belegost said:

Saving inside the Inconspicuous House, then loading that save and saving again later, outside the house, creates a new character profile (SE). Also any auto-saves made inside the house are not overwritten by later auto-saves made outside and will take up disk space until manually removed.

 

If I recall correctly, there was a similar issue long ago with SL Surivival SE's kennels and the reason was incorrectly set or missing location flag for that cell. I suspect something like this may happening here.

 

I've never seen anything like this happening on AE 1.6.1170. You're on 1.5.97?