unforgiving devices Unforgiving Skyrim LE/SE

[reetus]

6 hours ago, kurotatsu said:

 

Are you using the proper chest? It's under stairs, right in front of the entrance door.

Yes, using chest under stairs

[Kaner]

Hi! I also have trouble and wondering if that is how it should be going. I did my introductory quest, got alchemy station and books, put like 100 Black Goo and around 50k gold into the chest under the stairs, and the research log went idle. It counts days as it should, it even got me the first research done on day 2, but after that it's been 10 in-game days and the research log just says it needs Black Goo and nothing happens. Is it how it should be?

[kurotatsu]

10 hours ago, Kaner said:

Hi! I also have trouble and wondering if that is how it should be going. I did my introductory quest, got alchemy station and books, put like 100 Black Goo and around 50k gold into the chest under the stairs, and the research log went idle. It counts days as it should, it even got me the first research done on day 2, but after that it's been 10 in-game days and the research log just says it needs Black Goo and nothing happens. Is it how it should be?

 

Hello! Please note that you need both normal and concentrated versions of the goo plus gold for initial research.

[Kaner]

1 hour ago, kurotatsu said:

 

Hello! Please note that you need both normal and concentrated versions of the goo plus gold for initial research.

Thanks for replying so fast! I also added around 40-50 of the Concentrated one. How much of each should there be for me to see if it works?

[Allen Harris]

FWIW - I really appreciate someone turning Unforgiving Devices into a quest mod; but...dude the devices are just too difficult and frustrating to get off when you've got more than one unforgiving plug in you lol

When I used the concentrated stuff in story, I was trying for like hours and still hadn't gotten all the stuff off. The constant respawning just made it too difficult.

[Marauderrr]

22 minutes ago, Allen Harris said:

FWIW - I really appreciate someone turning Unforgiving Devices into a quest mod; but...dude the devices are just too difficult and frustrating to get off when you've got more than one unforgiving plug in you lol

When I used the concentrated stuff in story, I was trying for like hours and still hadn't gotten all the stuff off. The constant respawning just made it too difficult.

Try setting the cooldown multiplier under custom devices MCM higher....the higher the percentage the longer the cooldowns are... maybe 300 percent?

Also, you can adjust the manifest chances under patcher MCM for time and orgasm events. Here set them lower than 100 percent.

This SHOULD limit the spawning of new devices wrapping the DB up like a thanksgiving turkey?   Hopefully....

[Allen Harris]

1 hour ago, Marauderrr said:

Try setting the cooldown multiplier under custom devices MCM higher....the higher the percentage the longer the cooldowns are... maybe 300 percent?

Also, you can adjust the manifest chances under patcher MCM for time and orgasm events. Here set them lower than 100 percent.

This SHOULD limit the spawning of new devices wrapping the DB up like a thanksgiving turkey?   Hopefully....

hmmmm...maybe I'll try that. Thanks!

[kurotatsu]

3 hours ago, Kaner said:

Thanks for replying so fast! I also added around 40-50 of the Concentrated one. How much of each should there be for me to see if it works?

 

If you are interested in details - you can peek inside script sources and see exact numbers. Normally, without any stations, it's around 20-30 of each, stations reduce amounts needed.

Also note that other researches require additional items, everything is in hints, read them carefully.

 

2 hours ago, Allen Harris said:

FWIW - I really appreciate someone turning Unforgiving Devices into a quest mod; but...dude the devices are just too difficult and frustrating to get off when you've got more than one unforgiving plug in you lol

When I used the concentrated stuff in story, I was trying for like hours and still hadn't gotten all the stuff off. The constant respawning just made it too difficult.

 

Ahaha, I guess being long term UD user I don't notice difficulty anymore

It's very interesting to read people's impressions, thank you very much for sharing!

[Allen Harris]

Hey when I'm starting the quest and talking to whats-her-name at the Bannered mare - after she finishes whipping me, I start floating in the air. If I try to exit the bannered mare it crashes. Anyone know what's going on or how to fix that?

 

Edit: Okay, well, enough reloads and I got it to not do that. But now that I've got all the devices off of me, I can't open my item inventory. What's going on?

Edited November 7, 2024 by Allen Harris

[Guest]

On 11/6/2024 at 7:18 PM, Allen Harris said:

FWIW - I really appreciate someone turning Unforgiving Devices into a quest mod; but...dude the devices are just too difficult and frustrating to get off when you've got more than one unforgiving plug in you lol

When I used the concentrated stuff in story, I was trying for like hours and still hadn't gotten all the stuff off. The constant respawning just made it too difficult.

Hi there!

 

I had the same impresion the first time I played the mod.

 

But after learning the ropes (¡!) It's not that hard.

 

First of I have to say that for me this mod is the best melding devices with normal skyrim play.

 

If I had to name 3 mods (excluding frameworks) I would say:

 

- Unforgiving devices (best melding and replayabiity).

- Laura bondage shop (best story, cool melding).

- Trappings of fate (most surprising mechanics, cool story).

 

Back to the point: how to not get fucked (methaforically) by this mod:

 

Basic tips (I believe all of them can be learnt/deducted by reading UD guide):

 

Spoiler

- check the devices details. There you have the device resistance to each struggling type.

- any resistance above 50 will make the device really hard to struggle out with that method. 

- check locks. In most cases easiest way to get rid of a device is by unlocking it. Maybe you can't unlock it now because of a time lock. Consider leaving it for laters.

- cutting is usually worthless. Unless I'm missing something.

- someone helping helps a lot, even if the guy is not keen at the struggle type (like a warrior helping in a magic struggle).

- you can resist orgasm. By opening character menu (key adjent to "return key" in your keyboard. This is basic for avoiding device manifest on orgasm effects.

- damage done by struggling is dependant on the related skill (pickpocket, 2 handed weapons and destruction magic) plus 10 points for every perk invested in the skill tree. 

 

Strategic tips (maybe you want to learn these by yourself. There is no secret/bug/exploit in here. Just things that you will realise sooner or later)

 

Spoiler

- getting free is just a matter of struggling/unlocking fast enough. For that you need high regeneration rates.

- so if you know you are getting into trouble, a stamina regeneration potion is usually your friend.

- having magika, health and stamina regeneration items with yourself is usually a good idea (to equip them as soon as you can).

- necklaces are usually not removed when getting naked, so a stamina/magika (or both after enchanting 100) regeneration necklace is a must.

- friends doesn't charge you for helping, most obvious helper is your follower (if you play with them, I usually go solo) but you have friends at other places, Farengar, Irileth and Lidia (and probably some companions if you are doing its quest) are your friends in whiterun. Plenty of people to help there.

- you can (and should) pay someone for helping at strategic moments.

- order of devices removal is also important:

1. Corsets reduce stamina regeneration by 25%, so they are a priority tarjet.

2. Main trouble is usually clit device, so you should go for that one as soon as possible (although being probably protected you might want to deal with corset before moving there).

3. Anything with aphrodisiac effect is your worst enemy, makes resist orgasm almost impossible. So if you have an aphrodisiac gas mask, you should try to get rid of it the sooner the better.

4. Abandon plug is problematic, don't go for that until removing all other stimulating devices. (There are exceptions).

- I said earlier that pickpocket, 2 handed weapons and destruction magic are used as struggling skills: this means that you should try to avoid the stealth archer build. I go for a 2 handed mage when playing this mod. It's actually fun. Give it a try.

 

Final tip (this actually makes the mod easy, so... up to you if you want to read it...)

 

Spoiler

Universal keys do exists and works. There aren't many, so... you can't just spam this but...

 

As soon as you have your hands free you can use a universal key for unlocking everything except the abandon plugs themselves.

 

I always keep one with myself for using it if I fall in one of those nasty traps in middle of a dungeon.

 

As I say what I enjoy most about this mod is being able to actually play skyrim with it, and while I love those traps, I also want to be able to resume the dungeon sooner than later.

 

Hope this helps!

[Allen Harris]

49 minutes ago, try again. said:

Hi there!

 

I had the same impresion the first time I played the mod.

 

But after learning the ropes (¡!) It's not that hard.

 

First of I have to say that for me this mod is the best melding devices with normal skyrim play.

 

If I had to name 3 mods (excluding frameworks) I would say:

 

- Unforgiving devices (best melding and replayabiity).

- Laura bondage shop (best story, cool melding).

- Trappings of fate (most surprising mechanics, cool story).

 

Back to the point: how to not get fucked (methaforically) by this mod:

 

Basic tips (I believe all of them can be learnt/deducted by reading UD guide):

 

  Hide contents

- check the devices details. There you have the device resistance to each struggling type.

- any resistance above 50 will make the device really hard to struggle out with that method. 

- check locks. In most cases easiest way to get rid of a device is by unlocking it. Maybe you can't unlock it now because of a time lock. Consider leaving it for laters.

- cutting is usually worthless. Unless I'm missing something.

- someone helping helps a lot, even if the guy is not keen at the struggle type (like a warrior helping in a magic struggle).

- you can resist orgasm. By opening character menu (key adjent to "return key" in your keyboard. This is basic for avoiding device manifest on orgasm effects.

- damage done by struggling is dependant on the related skill (pickpocket, 2 handed weapons and destruction magic) plus 10 points for every perk invested in the skill tree. 

 

Strategic tips (maybe you want to learn these by yourself. There is no secret/bug/exploit in here. Just things that you will realise sooner or later)

 

  Hide contents

- getting free is just a matter of struggling/unlocking fast enough. For that you need high regeneration rates.

- so if you know you are getting into trouble, a stamina regeneration potion is usually your friend.

- having magika, health and stamina regeneration items with yourself is usually a good idea (to equip them as soon as you can).

- necklaces are usually not removed when getting naked, so a stamina/magika (or both after enchanting 100) regeneration necklace is a must.

- friends doesn't charge you for helping, most obvious helper is your follower (if you play with them, I usually go solo) but you have friends at other places, Farengar, Irileth and Lidia (and probably some companions if you are doing its quest) are your friends in whiterun. Plenty of people to help there.

- you can (and should) pay someone for helping at strategic moments.

- order of devices removal is also important:

1. Corsets reduce stamina regeneration by 25%, so they are a priority tarjet.

2. Main trouble is usually clit device, so you should go for that one as soon as possible (although being probably protected you might want to deal with corset before moving there).

3. Anything with aphrodisiac effect is your worst enemy, makes resist orgasm almost impossible. So if you have an aphrodisiac gas mask, you should try to get rid of it the sooner the better.

4. Abandon plug is problematic, don't go for that until removing all other stimulating devices. (There are exceptions).

- I said earlier that pickpocket, 2 handed weapons and destruction magic are used as struggling skills: this means that you should try to avoid the stealth archer build. I go for a 2 handed mage when playing this mod. It's actually fun. Give it a try.

 

Final tip (this actually makes the mod easy, so... up to you if you want to read it...)

 

  Hide contents

Universal keys do exists and works. There aren't many, so... you can't just spam this but...

 

As soon as you have your hands free you can use a universal key for unlocking everything except the abandon plugs themselves.

 

I always keep one with myself for using it if I fall in one of those nasty traps in middle of a dungeon.

 

As I say what I enjoy most about this mod is being able to actually play skyrim with it, and while I love those traps, I also want to be able to resume the dungeon sooner than later.

 

Hope this helps!

Well...I kind of worked it out. With a little cheating. Turning down the various difficulty settings and turning up the spawn times did a lot. I had to use debug for a couple items (mostly chastity belts/harnesses) because no matter what I did, the device health wouldn't reduce. And I have to keep doing "epc 1" on the console bc for some reason menu controls/map doesn't come back even when I've removed all the devices. But I figured most of it out.

What I am trying to figure out though - is that since I've given what's-her-face the abadon gem a couple times, it's telling me to go find more materials - but it doesn't tell me what materials lol. Still trying to figure that one out.

Thanks though!

[Allen Harris]

And now another weird one - I got hit with a draugr shout and my clothes fell off, and everyone went non-hostile. But I didn't get bound by anything and no quest started...

(The debug console says "Failed to Add Actor - They are not a valid target for the animation")

Edited November 8, 2024 by Allen Harris

[belegost]

Does this voice pack still work with the current version?

[kurotatsu]

6 hours ago, belegost said:

Does this voice pack still work with the current version?

 

Yes, of course. Just no voices for the added content and several voice phrases sound a bit different because of the changes. Nothing too bad.

[belegost]

4 hours ago, kurotatsu said:

 

Yes, of course. Just no voices for the added content and several voice phrases sound a bit different because of the changes. Nothing too bad.

 

Thank you.

 

During installation I noticed a conflict with exactly 18 files form DCL. Some are textures, some are meshes. For now, I had US overwrite DCL, but would like to ask what the specific changes are.

 

I also noticed that there are edits to several NPC's, most importantly to Ulfric, among others. If using any NPC overhaul, these will need a patch to forward your changes, otherwise none of them will be able to use the new shout. It would be convenient if you'd mentioned it in the post description to make people aware of such change. Not necessarily to provide a patch, as there are gazillion overhauls out there, just the information that there is one record that needs to be forwarded.

Edited November 9, 2024 by belegost

[Allen Harris]

On 11/7/2024 at 7:30 PM, Allen Harris said:

And now another weird one - I got hit with a draugr shout and my clothes fell off, and everyone went non-hostile. But I didn't get bound by anything and no quest started...

(The debug console says "Failed to Add Actor - They are not a valid target for the animation")

This is really weird - I even tried starting the quest from the console:

startquest US_AbadonShout_Quest

setstage US_AbadonShout_Quest 50

 

And nothing happened. Are there some prerequesites to the quest or something I don't know about? I don't see any in creation kit.

 

 

Edit: Okay that's intersting: When I turned off high performance mod, it worked and I got the quest.

Edited November 9, 2024 by Allen Harris

[kurotatsu]

1 hour ago, belegost said:

 

Thank you.

 

During installation I noticed a conflict with exactly 18 files form DCL. Some are textures, some are meshes. For now, I had US overwrite DCL, but would like to ask what the specific changes are.

 

I also noticed that there are edits to several NPC's, most importantly to Ulfric, among others. If using any NPC overhaul, these will need a patch to forward your changes, otherwise none of them will be able to use the new shout. It would be convenient if you'd mentioned it in the post description to make people aware of such change. Not necessarily to provide a patch, as there are gazillion overhauls out there, just the information that there is one record that needs to be forwarded.

 

DCL conflict - no conflict, simply the same textures and meshes for Dasha's items.

 

NPC edits - all NPC who have Unrelenting Force shout also get Abadon Shout, that's it. If overwritten - no harm. I'm considering to go with SPID use for the v2 of this mod, as it will be SE/AE only, same as UD v.3

 

40 minutes ago, Allen Harris said:

This is really weird - I even tried starting the quest from the console:

startquest US_AbadonShout_Quest

setstage US_AbadonShout_Quest 50

 

And nothing happened. Are there some prerequesites to the quest or something I don't know about? I don't see any in creation kit.

 

 

Edit: Okay that's intersting: When I turned off high performance mod, it worked and I got the quest.

 

Interesting indeed. If you peek deep enough you'll notice that all hooks used for this are really straightforward and simple, so I'm a bit at loss how it couldn't work in some case.

[belegost]

20 minutes ago, kurotatsu said:

all NPC who have Unrelenting Force shout also get Abadon Shout, that's it. If overwritten - no harm

 

I'm more foreseeing situation where someone will load US after their NPC overhaul and start complaining about black faces or outright CTDs. You just know it's bound (pun intended) to happen at some point.

 

Also, what about Miraak? Does he not get the shout? If anyone, he should be the one to definitely possess such a power.

Edited November 9, 2024 by belegost

[Allen Harris]

2 hours ago, kurotatsu said:

 

DCL conflict - no conflict, simply the same textures and meshes for Dasha's items.

 

NPC edits - all NPC who have Unrelenting Force shout also get Abadon Shout, that's it. If overwritten - no harm. I'm considering to go with SPID use for the v2 of this mod, as it will be SE/AE only, same as UD v.3

 

 

Interesting indeed. If you peek deep enough you'll notice that all hooks used for this are really straightforward and simple, so I'm a bit at loss how it couldn't work in some case.

Well, I was finally able to get the quest to start when I disabled high performance mod - but now, I've been through like 4 other draugr crypts and been hit many times with shouts, but either none of them were the abadon shout, or the shout isn't working. Because I've yet to be bound again.

 

Edit: Another interesting issue; when I get hit with goo traps, or I use abadon shout and it bounces back (I used the console to add the shout), and I try to use UD to struggle out of my abadon binds, it wells me I'm doing something else and won't struggle.

Edited November 9, 2024 by Allen Harris

[kurotatsu]

7 hours ago, belegost said:

 

I'm more foreseeing situation where someone will load US after their NPC overhaul and start complaining about black faces or outright CTDs. You just know it's bound (pun intended) to happen at some point.

 

Also, what about Miraak? Does he not get the shout? If anyone, he should be the one to definitely possess such a power.

 

Well, boss fight against Miraak can be quite hard even without giving him such power... You're welcome to try it out and tell us how it turned out for you.

 

7 hours ago, Allen Harris said:

Well, I was finally able to get the quest to start when I disabled high performance mod - but now, I've been through like 4 other draugr crypts and been hit many times with shouts, but either none of them were the abadon shout, or the shout isn't working. Because I've yet to be bound again.

 

Edit: Another interesting issue; when I get hit with goo traps, or I use abadon shout and it bounces back (I used the console to add the shout), and I try to use UD to struggle out of my abadon binds, it wells me I'm doing something else and won't struggle.

 

I'd highly recommend to start new game after disabling some mods, Skyrim really can be finicky when mods enabled / disabled during play-through.

In some cases running general fixes from UD debug menu helps.

[belegost]

9 minutes ago, kurotatsu said:

You're welcome to try it out and tell us how it turned out for you

Cheeky. I see your point.

[Vollkornstulle]

On 11/8/2024 at 1:01 AM, Allen Harris said:

Well...I kind of worked it out. With a little cheating. Turning down the various difficulty settings and turning up the spawn times did a lot. I had to use debug for a couple items (mostly chastity belts/harnesses) because no matter what I did, the device health wouldn't reduce. And I have to keep doing "epc 1" on the console bc for some reason menu controls/map doesn't come back even when I've removed all the devices. But I figured most of it out.

What I am trying to figure out though - is that since I've given what's-her-face the abadon gem a couple times, it's telling me to go find more materials - but it doesn't tell me what materials lol. Still trying to figure that one out.

Thanks though!

Note that you should always scout the items for the way to unlock them.

Use the hotkey to open the device menu and open the Details option.

You should see 3 numbers arranged like (AAA/BBB/CCC) which indicates their resistance to  Struggle.

A: The effectiveness of physical struggle (Struggle normally, struggle desperately)

B: The chance that receiving physical Damage from Combat (and whipping) reduces the durability.

C : The effectiveness of magical struggle.

 

Belts, Chastity harnesses and one specific Black Goo Yoke are really hard to unlock by Struggle. Some, especially belts, even impossible.

You will notice that they have something like (80/XXX/100) which means no magical struggle is effective at all. 

Also Notice the Difficulty of Struggle, which is coded in the different tiers: 'Very easy, easy, normal, hard, very hard"

It indicates how much time you need even with the best method of struggle.

There are even some rare devices with a stat above 100, like the 'rare blue straitjacket' with a magic resistance of 150. You will notice that its durability actually increases if you try to struggle out using magic.

 

For those hard to remove you need keys (or lockpicks). You can check which key you need too under Details. Belts and Harnesses will need 'Ornate skeleton keys' which you can acquire by a few methods that are not in this mod. A few recommended methods I use:

1: Read the book 'Devious Devices, Devious Chastity belts' - You will find this book during a early Quest of this mod. (though the book is not from that mod but comes with DD already) After reading the book you unlock the possibility to forge the 3 different keys which are used to unlock all devices in this mod. You can also just add it. Use the command 'help belts' and you should only see the book coming up in the console.

2: Laura´s bondage Shop sells the keys. Ridiculously expensive, but she sells them (and you can reduce the price in the MCM).

3: Cursed Loot takes some getting used to, but if you found your personal settings you are happy with you will find a steady supply of the needed keys and even the item 'Universal Key' which is an absolute lifesaver. It´s a one time use item you find in every Boss Chest once and unlocks all worn devices that can be unlocked. But be aware that it does not unlock non lockable plugs, Jammed Devices and some masks (Don´t know why the masks. Just get used to it) (It spawns in as you open the chest, you might need to reopen the chest if your computer is not fast enough to keep up with all of your mod scripts.)

 

 

TLDR: Some Devices, especially Yokes, Harnesses and Belts can not realistically be removed by struggle and must be removed by using the correct DD-keys or lock picks.

Edited November 16, 2024 by Vollkornstulle
small messup

[belegost]

On 11/11/2024 at 11:34 PM, Vollkornstulle said:

Note that you should always scout the items for the way to unlock them.

Use the hotkey to open the device menu and open the Details option.

You should see 3 numbers arranged like (AAA/BBB/CCC) which indicates their resistance to  Struggle.

A: The effectiveness of physical struggle (Struggle normally, struggle desperately)

B: The chance that receiving physical Damage from Combat (and whipping) reduces the durability.

C : The effectiveness of magical struggle.

 

Belts, Chastity harnesses and one specific Black Goo Yoke are really hard to unlock by Struggle. Some, especially belts, even impossible.

You will notice that they have something like (80/XXX/100) which means no magical struggle is effective at all. 

Also Notice the Difficulty of Struggle, which is coded in the different tiers: 'Very easy, normal, adept, hard, very hard"

It indicates how much time you need even with the best method of struggle.

There are even some rare devices with a stat above 100, like the 'rare blue straitjacket' with a magic resistance of 150. You will notice that its durability actually increases if you try to struggle out using magic.

 

For those hard to remove you need keys (or lockpicks). You can check which key you need too under Details. Belts and Harnesses will need 'Ornate skeleton keys' which you can acquire by a few methods that are not in this mod. A few recommended methods I use:

1: Read the book 'Devious Devices, Devious Chastity belts' - You will find this book during a early Quest if you use the Mod 'Unforgiving Skyrim' which is an addon for this mod I highly recommend. (though the book is not from that mod but comes with DD already) After reading the book you unlock the possibility to forge the 3 different keys which are us to unlock all devices in this mod. You can also just add it. Use that command 'help belts' and you should only see the book coming up in the console.

2: Laura´s bondage Shop sells the keys. Ridiculously expensive, but she sells them (and you can reduce the price in the MCM).

3: Cursed Loot takes some getting used to, but if you found your personal settings you are happy with you will find a steady supply of the needed keys and even the item 'Universal Key' which is an absolute lifesaver. It´s a one time use item you find in every Boss Chest once and unlocks all worn devices that can be unlocked. But be aware that it does not unlock non lockable plugs, Jammed Devices and some masks (Don´t know why the masks. Just get used to it) (It spawns in as you open the chest, you might need to reopen the chest if your computer is not fast enough to keep up with all of your mod scripts.)

 

 

TLDR: Some Devices, especially Yokes, Harnesses and Belts can not realistically be removed by struggle and must be removed by using the correct DD-keys or lock picks.

 

I'm bookmarking your comment because this is the best explanation of mechanics I saw. I was murky on what exactly XXX in middle position meant and now I know.

[belegost]

On 11/11/2024 at 11:34 PM, Vollkornstulle said:

A: The effectiveness of physical struggle (Struggle normally, struggle desperately)

 

Is there a difference between normal and desperate struggle in terms of device durability? One uses only stamina, the other uses less stamina and drains health, one uses pickpocket, the other two-handed, but is it all that's there? I was under the impression that the middle number represents resistance to desperate struggle, but according to what you said, it doesn't.

Since all 3 types drain stamina and from my own experience magic usually tends to be the most effective and the quickest, regardless of destruction skill, is there even a point in using desperate struggle on any character that's not a dedicated 2H warrior with lots of health? Which is weird combination, if I go for a tank archetype, I go for sword and board, not 2H, but I guess it can work.

It seems like the best combination to succeed in struggles would be a 2H mage with lots of stamina. A totally wild combination and I have yet to come up with a fun and functional build for that, even though I'm using Vokriinator to broaden my build palette.

Edited November 14, 2024 by belegost

[Guest]

1 hour ago, belegost said:

 

Is there a difference between normal and desperate struggle in terms of device durability? One uses only stamina, the other uses less stamina and drains health, one uses pickpocket, the other two-handed, but is it all that's there? I was under the impression that the middle number represents resistance to desperate struggle, but according to what you said, it doesn't.

Since all 3 types drain stamina and from my own experience magic usually tends to be the most effective and the quickest, regardless of destruction skill, is there even a point in using desperate struggle on any character that's not a dedicated 2H warrior with lots of health? Which is weird combination, if I go for a tank archetype, I go for sword and board, not 2H, but I guess it can work.

It seems like the best combination to succeed in struggles would be a 2H mage with lots of stamina. A totally wild combination and I have yet to come up with a fun and functional build for that, even though I'm using Vokriinator to broaden my build palette.

Magika struggle reduces a lot of condition and very little durability.

 

Desperate reduces little condition and a lot of durability.

 

While regular struggle do it in a balanced way.

 

Knowing this you should plan your struggles accordingly. Sometimes is better to do some magika for reducing condition knowing that you are going to end it with desperate struggle.