[mod] Carnalitas Slavery Reimagined

[Tyrgalon]

Anyone know if having this and the carnalitas slavery expansion active att the same time causes issues?
The expansion has the feature of being able to affect the gender of children wich this mod doesnt have

[pharaox]

6 hours ago, Tyrgalon said:

Anyone know if having this and the carnalitas slavery expansion active att the same time causes issues?
The expansion has the feature of being able to affect the gender of children wich this mod doesnt have

 

The 2 mods are technically compatible (they have no conflicts) but not really designed to work together, see also previous posts where this is explained in more detail.

 

In all honesty: do you really need a feature that enables you to affect the gender of children? I find this both a huge boost to the player (and he is overpowered already), and extremely unrealistic. Even fantasy mods that include magic (EK2) don't have it.

[Tyrgalon]

3 hours ago, pharaox said:

 

The 2 mods are technically compatible (they have no conflicts) but not really designed to work together, see also previous posts where this is explained in more detail.

 

In all honesty: do you really need a feature that enables you to affect the gender of children? I find this both a huge boost to the player (and he is overpowered already), and extremely unrealistic. Even fantasy mods that include magic (EK2) don't have it.

Allright ty.
Its unrealistic but playing with a large harem and having to manage the hassle of a lot of male children is already something I have experienced.
Also its not a 100% guaranteed mechanic it just gives you tools to stack the odds in certain directions.

[pharaox]

I am happy to announce the first release of my new mod, Carnalitas Love Reimagined. It is essentially a rework of the Carnalitas Make Love interaction and its related effects aiming at better realism and immersion, more variety, and improved player experience. I worked on it for more than 2 months before finally considering it to ready for a release. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. I would love to hear your feedback in the CLR Support Forum.

[Tarigh]

Hello everyone, how can I have sex with a slave?

The CBO file seems to work only for marriage and concubines. If anyone knows a solution, tell me about sex with a slave

[pharaox]

20 hours ago, Tarigh said:

Hello everyone, how can I have sex with a slave?

The CBO file seems to work only for marriage and concubines. If anyone knows a solution, tell me about sex with a slave

 

I would recommend downloading my new mod Carnalitas Love Reimagined, it enables having sex with slaves via the new Demand Sex interaction, with the appropriate consequences.

 

As for CBO, I took a closer look and it seems I unintentionally disabled sex with slaves in the CBO interaction with a change I did in one of the latest CSR versions. I don't use the CBO sex interactions so it remained unnoticed until now, thanks for reporting! I will release a new version with the fix in the next few days.

[pharaox]

I just released new version 0.16.0 (for CK3 1.10.x), see file. There are no major new features, however I made multiple gameplay improvements and fixes, including for the issue @Tarigh reported earlier.

[Rhaenuriel]

The mod "Travelers" mentioned in the changelog, is that something in the works by you or is it somewhere in the workshop? Looks interesting, I'll definitely give it a try given the future symbiosis with CSR.

[OzcarMike]

It looks like the way that CSR tests for polygamy allowed matches vanilla:

 

Quote

carnx_is_polygamous_faith_or_culture_trigger = {
    OR = {
        faith = { has_doctrine = doctrine_polygamy }
        faith = { has_doctrine = doctrine_concubines }
        culture = { has_cultural_tradition = tradition_polygamous }
        culture = { has_cultural_tradition = tradition_concubines }
    }
}

 

This means that anything not using vanilla marriage doctrines may not actually work as expected (in particular Extended Marriage Doctrines and Regula Magistri). Would it be possible to extend that test to include the doctrine / culture parameters added by Extended Marriage Doctrines? Specifically, I think that would be:
 

Quote

 

carnx_is_polygamous_faith_or_culture_trigger = {
    OR = {
        faith = { has_doctrine = doctrine_polygamy }
        faith = { has_doctrine = doctrine_concubines }

        faith = { has_doctrine_parameter = allows_polygamy }

        faith = { has_doctrine_parameter = allows_concubinage }
        culture = { has_cultural_tradition = tradition_polygamous }
        culture = { has_cultural_tradition = tradition_concubines }

        culture = { has_cultural_parameter = allows_polygamy }
        culture = { has_cultural_parameter = allows_concubinage }
    }
}

 

 

I haven't actually tested - but I think that would still work fine in vanilla since I believe that cultural & doctrine parameters are essentially arbitrary flags which can be applied to doctrines and traditions.

 

FWIW - I think Regula Magistri likely still works fine since it also sets up the initial faith w/ doctrine_polygamy - I haven't tested in a run w/ Extended Marriage Doctrines disabled, but did notice that with Extended Marriage Doctrines slave concubines were not available. TBH - using doctrine and culture parameters feels like the way that these tests should have been done in vanilla as well...but, at least pushing for mods standardizing on a couple seems like a reasonable workaround?

Edited October 3, 2023 by OzcarMike

[pharaox]

On 10/2/2023 at 2:11 PM, Rhaenuriel said:

The mod "Travelers" mentioned in the changelog, is that something in the works by you or is it somewhere in the workshop? Looks interesting, I'll definitely give it a try given the future symbiosis with CSR.

 

I am glad you asked! It's something I am working on, I plan to release it on Steam in perhaps 2 weeks. The main idea is to send non-ruler NPCs traveling to their intended destination in cases when they currently simply teleport to it - Invite to Court, marriages, capturing and releasing prisoners, etc. Some of them might not reach it since traveling in the Middle Ages is, well, dangerous. I will definitely let you know once it's released.

[pharaox]

19 hours ago, OzcarMike said:

It looks like the way that CSR tests for polygamy allowed matches vanilla:

 

Thanks for your suggestion, I will double check this and if it's not a big deal will add it to the next version.

[James_E_C]

2 slight problems. First, children born from slave concubines are free. Shouldn't they be slaves as well?

Second, a conflict between this and Regula Magistri. I posted it both on the Magistri board, and in the Carnalitas Other Mods discord topic. The problem is I can't take Slave Concubines as a Magistri Ruler. I'm guessing it has to do with how the Faith is Female Only (but females aren't allowed consorts themselves, only the Magistar).

[OzcarMike]

1 hour ago, James_E_C said:

Second, a conflict between this and Regula Magistri. I posted it both on the Magistri board, and in the Carnalitas Other Mods discord topic. The problem is I can't take Slave Concubines as a Magistri Ruler. I'm guessing it has to do with how the Faith is Female Only (but females aren't allowed consorts themselves, only the Magistar).

 

Ah, right you are - looking again, RM has it's own weirdness separate from Extended Marriage Doctrines w/ this:

 

Quote

carnx_slave_concubine_court_position_enabled_trigger = {
    carnx_is_slave_concubines_enabled_trigger = yes
    NOT = { is_wrong_gender_in_faith_trigger = { FAITH = faith } }
}

 

But in the RM religion, we see: 

Quote

 

regula_religion = {
    ...

 

    #Main Group
    doctrine = doctrine_temporal_head
    doctrine = doctrine_gender_female_dominated
    doctrine = doctrine_pluralism_fundamentalist
    doctrine = doctrine_theocracy_lay_clergy

 

 

NOT = { is_wrong_gender_in_faith_trigger = { FAITH = faith } } => male character can't have slave concubines in a female dominated religion. I could see an argument that both triggers could be replaced by / simplified to `allowed_concubines = yes` (aka is this specific character allowed to have concubines), but that's a decision for OP to make about how they want things to run in their mod - and again, I haven't done any testing...so possible that that simpler approach just breaks something or behaves in unexpected ways.

[pharaox]

On 10/4/2023 at 5:58 AM, James_E_C said:

2 slight problems. First, children born from slave concubines are free. Shouldn't they be slaves as well?

 

No, they shouldn't. It's also explained in the description of the position - "Any children will have you as father if you are male, and the holder if you are female. They will also be of your dynasty, faith, and culture.". Not only they are not slaves, but they may be your heirs too. So in this respect slave concubines are very similar to regular concubines, except that they never get pregnant unless you "Make Love" to them (or they get a lover, either you or somebody else). This is a double-edged sword of course - you may easily get more heirs than you want, and this is also intended. On the other hand, with CLR sex with slave concubines doesn't have any penalties, unlike sex with regular slaves.

[pharaox]

On 10/4/2023 at 7:21 AM, OzcarMike said:

NOT = { is_wrong_gender_in_faith_trigger = { FAITH = faith } } => male character can't have slave concubines in a female dominated religion

 

Yes, and the same for a female character in a male-dominated one. I think this applies to regular concubines as well. I wonder if "allowed_concubines = yes" would change anything? Thanks for the suggestion though, I will give it a try and if I see any room for improvement try to improve it in the next version.

[OzcarMike]

On 10/8/2023 at 2:49 AM, pharaox said:

Yes, and the same for a female character in a male-dominated one. I think this applies to regular concubines as well. I wonder if "allowed_concubines = yes" would change anything? Thanks for the suggestion though, I will give it a try and if I see any room for improvement try to improve it in the next version.

 

FWIW - I did test out in my playthrough that making the following change seems to have the intended effect:

Quote

# File: carnalitas_slavery_reimagined\common\scripted_triggers\carnx_court_position_triggers.txt

carnx_slave_concubine_court_position_enabled_trigger = {
    allowed_concubines = yes
    #carnx_is_slave_concubines_enabled_trigger = yes
    #NOT = { is_wrong_gender_in_faith_trigger = { FAITH = faith } }
}

 

So, basically, commented out the existing triggers & just switched to using 'allowed_concubines = yes', and that seemed to result in:

- RM Magister: Slave concubines positions present.

- Ruler w/ Concubine Supporting Religion: Slave concubines positions present.

- Ruler w/ non-Concubine Supporting Faith: Slave concubines positions not present.

- Female Ruler in Vanilla Male Dominated Faith: Slave concubines positions not present.

 

That seems like roughly what I would expect & desire, but...that was some passing testing while working on another feature - nothing extensive.

 

RM works different from the normal faith gender behavior because it has a Magister specific gender law w/ overrides:

Quote

flag = men_can_have_multiple_spouses
flag = men_can_have_consorts

Edited October 10, 2023 by OzcarMike

[bc05]

the children of slave concubines have the names from their mother's culture. Shouldn't it be fromt he father's culture's name list?. It's weird to have Prince (Arabian name) as the king of france for your heir. I could change it manually as the player but for the AI the names should be changed as well

[pharaox]

16 hours ago, bc05 said:

the children of slave concubines have the names from their mother's culture. Shouldn't it be fromt he father's culture's name list?

 

Yes, you are right, it should be as you suggest. It's like this currently only because the "on_birth" action that I use to change the father / religion / culture fires after the child has been already named. I will check what can be done about it and hopefully fix it in the next version.

[Grey Cloud]

On 10/8/2023 at 1:19 PM, OzcarMike said:

carnx_slave_concubine_court_position_enabled_trigger = {
    allowed_concubines = yes
    #carnx_is_slave_concubines_enabled_trigger = yes
    #NOT = { is_wrong_gender_in_faith_trigger = { FAITH = faith } }
}

What file is this in? I wouldn't mind having my RM like this.

Thanks

[OzcarMike]

2 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

What file is this in? I wouldn't mind having my RM like this.

Thanks

 

Should be in:

carnalitas_slavery_reimagined\common\scripted_triggers\carnx_court_position_triggers.txt

[Grey Cloud]

8 hours ago, OzcarMike said:

 

Should be in:

carnalitas_slavery_reimagined\common\scripted_triggers\carnx_court_position_triggers.txt

Thanks a lot.

[nds12345]

May I know why I cannot appoint my slave to any any court position?
I have turned on the gamerule, and when I looked at the requirement, I found that it has requires on the person to take the court positon, but the person required was not the one I wanted even he is not my slave.
What can I do?

[pharaox]

On 10/11/2023 at 8:46 AM, nds12345 said:

May I know why I cannot appoint my slave to any any court position?
I have turned on the gamerule, and when I looked at the requirement, I found that it has requires on the person to take the court positon, but the person required was not the one I wanted even he is not my slave.
What can I do?

 

Most likely the slave in question doesn't meet the requirements for any of them. Some court positions can't be held by slaves, and most have requirements for any character, not just slaves. When you check the requirements for a position, you see them checked for a random character (vanilla feature, I don't think it can be changed). Check them manually for your slave to understand why they can't be appointed to it.

[EvilQuix]

Hi! 
 

I just wanted to congratulate you on making one of the best mods for all of CK3. I’m currently playing in Iberia from an 867 start and it’s really really cool to see Greek slaves start drifting over here within a few years of any war between the Abbasids and Byzantines. 
 

I also like that in general slaves are somewhat exceptional people, this is a lot more accurate to medieval slavery than the mass chattel of antiquity and early modernity. But I’ve noticed that for some reason slaves that are sold simply for their attractiveness are very rare despite this being very commonplace (e.g. domestic slave trade in late medieval Italy and the Jariye ubiquitous in any Caliph’s harem). Attractive slaves do get higher prices but the slave trader event always brings skilled slaves rather than attractive ones. 
 

I also wish there was a higher level of detail in slave doctrines than “has to be a hostile religion” while this is true for Abrahamic religions it wasn’t true of Hinduism, Buddhism, or most pagan religions. Some Christian sects rejected slavery entirely. There used to be a “historically accurate slavery doctrines” sub mod for carnalitas but its development has been discontinued and it doesn’t work on 1.10. 
 

One last thing I promise (and I really do like this mod).  Historically masters were always or almost always guaranteed sexual access to slaves with impunity, so it shouldn’t be considered adultery or sodomy for somebody to do this. (Although I’m not sure if this really applies to your mod or is more of just a shortcoming in Carnalitas as a framework). 
 

also, I do have a jstor access so if there are any academic publications about medieval slavery I could get for you just let me know, I’d be happy to help. 

[James_E_C]

On 9/16/2023 at 3:59 AM, Tyrgalon said:

Anyone know if having this and the carnalitas slavery expansion active att the same time causes issues?
The expansion has the feature of being able to affect the gender of children wich this mod doesnt have

I know there is a UI bug where your spouse doesn't show in the Character window (and I don't think a regent shows up either) if you use both. Supposedly, there's a compatch, but it didn't work for me. Maybe I did the wrong load order...