[mod] Carnalitas Slavery Reimagined

[pharaox]

21 hours ago, Kingskunk said:

my biggest issue with slavery expansion is that the IA doesnt actually appoint any of the slaves they have to the positions it provides which forced me to greatly nerf them

 

Exactly. The entire slavery expansion mod is human-only, which both kills the immersion and makes the game a lot easier.

 

21 hours ago, Kingskunk said:

I am not sure how well it would mesh with Slavery Expansion, it could potentially replace the mod as well since those positions sound like they overlap

 

My intention is to introduce plausible and historically accurate (kind of) occupations for slaves, so inevitably there will be overlap. The slavery expansion mod could still be used for its other features, but together with CSR the human player should IMO avoid assigning the slave professions, or assign them sparingly. The AI will never assign them anyway.

 

21 hours ago, Kingskunk said:

It's pretty easy for me to make a patch for any mod that may conflict with slavery expansion changes to the gui,

 

I don't intend to make any changes to the UI. One further advantages of court positions is that no changes to the UI are needed. My changes should also be compatible with all other mods that make changes to the UI.

 

21 hours ago, Kingskunk said:

it's probably a good idea to keep the public release seperate from requiring SE.

 

Absolutely. CSR will never require SE, or any other mod except Carnalitas. If you like using them both and would like to explore ideas for bringing them closer together feel free to do it, and let me know how it goes. I personally don't use the SE mod and don't intend to make such changes.

 

21 hours ago, Kingskunk said:

I would force my character to only be allowed to appoint a "Slave General"  from only slaves with 2 or more in the slave commander modifie

 

I am not sure about such changes. Court positions bring their own benefits and so assigning the same slave both to a court position and a profession is likely to unbalance the game even more. They also have their own requirements and aptitudes, with higher aptitudes bringing progressively better benefits. All slave court positions will allow multiple holders, e.g. 5 concubines, 3 captains, 2 eunuchs, etc. In short, there is hardly anything that professions could bring to positions that they don't have already, so as I mentioned earlier it's perhaps best to keep them separate.

 

21 hours ago, Kingskunk said:

may also make opinion changes to the owner for slaves that possess these court positions for a more hierarchy among slaves feeling.

 

This is already part of my changes as well.

 

[Kingskunk]

25 minutes ago, pharaox said:

I am not sure about such changes. Court positions bring their own benefits and so assigning the same slave both to a court position and a profession is likely to unbalance the game even more. They also have their own requirements and aptitudes, with higher aptitudes bringing progressively better benefits. All slave court positions will allow multiple holders, e.g. 5 concubines, 3 captains, 2 eunuchs, etc. In short, there is hardly anything that professions could bring to positions that they don't have already, so as I mentioned earlier it's perhaps best to keep them separate.

 

 

Ah, sounds pretty good now actually, if there are multiple holders for each position, then I would honestly just remove Slavery Expansion from my load order. I fully support adding in court positions, it does sound much better and way more balanced.

[Guest]

Thank you.

[JasonThe4th]

Hello, is it possible for the buy slaves events actually be enslaved NPCs and not generated ones? Or maybe is it possible to turn them off in the game rules? Thank you very much

Edited March 10, 2023 by JasonThe4th

[Joshuam303]

how do I see the list of my slaves?

[pharaox]

I just released a new version of this mod, 0.4.0, see file. I hope you all like it! Many thanks to all who contributed feedback and suggestions, I tried to include a lot of it into this version, for more information see the "What's New" section or the changelog inside the archive.

[pharaox]

On 3/5/2023 at 1:17 PM, Kingskunk said:

I fully support adding in court positions, it does sound much better and way more balanced.

 

The new version is out now, you may check it out. I limited the new slave court positions to only 2 right now: Slave Concubine and Mameluke Captain. I intend to add more such court positions in future versions depending on feedback.

 

13 hours ago, JasonThe4th said:

Hello, is it possible for the buy slaves events actually be enslaved NPCs and not generated ones? Or maybe is it possible to turn them off in the game rules?

 

It would be rather difficult to enslave actual NPCs for this event, and it could disturb the game in some unintended ways. I could add a game rule to turn the event off, but I consider it rather important, so I am not sure it's a good idea. What issues do you see with this event, perhaps they could be addressed in some other ways?

 

BTW in the new version that I just released, there are some significant improvements to this event. The slaves are now much more likely to come from nearby rather than faraway lands. Also, the slaves are generated with the idea to be a good fit for specific occupations (mainly court positions) rather than good in general, so they will be now much less geniuses, beauties, etc. spawned into the world.

 

13 hours ago, Joshuam303 said:

how do I see the list of my slaves?

 

At the bottom of the "Relations" tab, or via the Character Finder by looking for characters in your Court with the "Slave" trait. All of this is the same as in original Carnalitas, I haven't touched it.

[Durante]

Two questions. What is Toi compatibility file?

 

And what are slave concubine positions versus a generic sex slave? Does the other not become obsolete?

[pharaox]

9 minutes ago, Durante said:

What is Toi compatibility file?

 

TOI = Tales of Ireland, another total conversion mod that I personally like.

 

9 minutes ago, Durante said:

And what are slave concubine positions versus a generic sex slave? Does the other not become obsolete?

 

What do you mean by "generic sex slave"? There is no such thing in Carnalitas (unless you consider all slaves to be sex slaves, I don't). Or do you mean the Slavery Expansion profession? In both cases, no, it's not the same thing, see the README file for details.

 

As to whether the new slave court positions obsolete the SE professions, see the previous discussions in this forum. I personally don't use SE for reasons mentioned previously. If you do use it, it's your choice whether to use the "professions" together with the new court positions or not, I personally recommend using the professions sparingly and with different slaves than those assigned to positions, if at all.

[pharaox]

Hi, while working on CSR compatibility patch for EK2, I realized there is a number of compatibility issues between EK2 and the original Carnalitas. I fixed them all and decided to release them as a separate mod, Carnalitas EK2 Compatibility. If you play EK2, you may give it a try.

[Kingskunk]

Everything seems to be working fine. From Strenght to Strenght with this mod, good job Pharaox. I did have to make some minor adjustments since character ui overhaul also touches court positions. Looking forward to the other slave roles. 

[xyzxyz]

Can the new court concubines get pregnant through their work?

[pharaox]

On 3/13/2023 at 2:18 PM, Kingskunk said:

From Strenght to Strenght with this mod, good job Pharaox. I did have to make some minor adjustments since character ui overhaul also touches court positions.

 

Thanks. What adjustments, anything I could help with?

 

On 3/13/2023 at 7:15 PM, xyzxyz said:

Can the new court concubines get pregnant through their work?

 

Not right now, but I am thinking about it. They should not only get pregnant but also bear children of their owner's dynasty, perhaps less frequently than normal concubines. Male slave concubines (there is such a thing in total conversion mods) should eventually also be able to impregnate their female owners.

[pharaox]

I just released a new version of this mod, 0.5.0, see file. The main improvements are related to capturing slaves during warfare and raiding, and also to slave trade. For more information see the "What's New" section or the changelog inside the archive.

[Durante]

Great improvements overall, adding realism in various areas. 

 

However, curiously, slave concubine positions seem to not work for me, there's nobody eligible in court despite there being slaves in it.

 

Is it only reserved for Oriental factions?

Edited March 18, 2023 by Durante

[pharaox]

19 hours ago, Durante said:

Is it only reserved for Oriental factions?

 

It is only available if your faith or culture allows polygamous marriages or concubines. If not, you should not even see the position listed.

 

It also has some prerequisites for the character, I think these can be checked by pointing to the tooltip saying there are no eligible courtiers:

* diplomacy > 5

* attraction opinion > 0

* adult and visibly fertile

* your faith must allow marrying this character based on gender and consaguinity doctrines (same rules as with normal marriages)

[Durante]

1 hour ago, pharaox said:

 

It is only available if your faith or culture allows polygamous marriages or concubines. If not, you should not even see the position listed.

 

It also has some prerequisites for the character, I think these can be checked by pointing to the tooltip saying there are no eligible courtiers:

* diplomacy > 5

* attraction opinion > 0

* adult and visibly fertile

* your faith must allow marrying this character based on gender and consaguinity doctrines (same rules as with normal marriages)

 

Yes I see where the issue was, it was a lack of diplomacy skill.

 

I am curious from a design point, why the diplomacy requirement?

[pharaox]

On 3/19/2023 at 8:06 PM, Durante said:

I am curious from a design point, why the diplomacy requirement?

 

The aptitude for this position is based on diplomacy and attraction. I wanted to ensure certain minimum level of quality, mainly to ensure the AI doesn't appoint terrible aptitude characters to this position. But I guess I overdid it a bit. I am thinking of relaxing this to "either diplomacy >= 5, or attraction > 0", especially since very high diplomacy and attraction is by itself sufficient for average aptitude. What do you think?

[Durante]

16 hours ago, pharaox said:

 

The aptitude for this position is based on diplomacy and attraction. I wanted to ensure certain minimum level of quality, mainly to ensure the AI doesn't appoint terrible aptitude characters to this position. But I guess I overdid it a bit. I am thinking of relaxing this to "either diplomacy >= 5, or attraction > 0", especially since very high diplomacy and attraction is by itself sufficient for average aptitude. What do you think?

 

It depends on how easy you want to make it. Finding higher attraction in CK3 is harder because its not subjective and depends mostly on congenital traits and specific personalities unless you play with coetus anima.

 

Diplomacy on the other hand is easier to come by and most courtiers can improve it by some amount. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Durante

[pharaox]

I just released a new version of this mod, 0.6.0, see file. In this version, I added a new Slave Eunuch court position,  and also made it possible for children of Slave Concubines to have their owner as father / mother and have the correct house, dynasty, culture, and faith. Also fixed a couple of bugs. For more information see the "What's New" section or the changelog inside the archive.

[whateverdontcare]

On 3/12/2023 at 6:52 AM, pharaox said:

Hi, while working on CSR compatibility patch for EK2, I realized there is a number of compatibility issues between EK2 and the original Carnalitas. I fixed them all and decided to release them as a separate mod, Carnalitas EK2 Compatibility. If you play EK2, you may give it a try.

The court positions aren't showing up with the new version of the mod and compatibility patch and EK2.

 

Okay actually they're not showing up in regular CK3 either. I have checked the mod and the court positions are in the files. The rest of the mod works.

Edited March 29, 2023 by whateverdontcare

[Durante]

I would make a QOL suggestion. I notice that buying/selling slaves feature depends on diplomatic distance. Unfortunately it is quite inhibiting for players that play with the diplomatic range rule turned off, would be nice to have the feature reflect that or have a game rule for it.

[pharaox]

On 3/29/2023 at 10:33 AM, whateverdontcare said:

The court positions aren't showing up with the new version of the mod and compatibility patch and EK2.

 

Okay actually they're not showing up in regular CK3 either.

 

Which court positions exactly are not showing, do you mean the new slave court positions? They are not showing most likely because their prerequisites are not met. The prerequisites are mentioned in the README:

 

• Slave Concubine: diplomacy / attraction, restricted to polygamous religions and cultures, gives court grandeur and prestige (5 positions)
• Mameluke Captain: martial / prowess, restricted to clan governments, gives court grandeur and knights effectiveness (3 positions)
• Slave Eunuch: stewardship / intrigue, restricted to polygamous religions and cultures and cultures that can appoint Chief Eunuch, gives court grandeur, development growth, and hostile scheme resistance (3 positions)

 

The above prerequisites reflect the historical availability of important court positions to slaves, so no slave concubines if only monogamous marriages are allowed, no slave soldiers unless you are Muslim, and no slave eunuchs unless polygamy is allowed (so they can manage your harem), or your culture is vanilla-eligible for eunuchs.

 

I didn't modify the above for EK2, and since there are no clan governments in EK2, and relatively few polygamous religions or cultures, only the slave concubine positions shows up at all and much less often than in vanilla. This is all as it should be, I didn't want to invent things that don't exist in EK2 lore.

 

I tested this a lot before releasing so I believe the court positions are all working as described above. Do you find any differences?

Edited April 2, 2023 by pharaox

[pharaox]

On 3/31/2023 at 12:14 PM, Durante said:

I would make a QOL suggestion. I notice that buying/selling slaves feature depends on diplomatic distance. Unfortunately it is quite inhibiting for players that play with the diplomatic range rule turned off, would be nice to have the feature reflect that or have a game rule for it.

 

In fact, it's not the diplomatic range that's preventing you from buying / selling. The recipient must be in diplomatic range, but then if it's turned off this is reflected automatically (the trigger in_diplomatic_range honors the game rule). I additionally restricted the range for buying / selling to what I call a "trading range". This is also explained in the README:

 

For added realism and also for performance reasons, it is not possible to target any ruler with a request to buy or sell a slave. The following rulers are valid targets for buy and sell interactions for the human player:

• Any vassal or liege in the same realm.
• Neighboring independent rulers.
• Foreign rulers within a dynamic trading range depending on rank (smallest for counts, largest for emperors), measured as the distance between capitals.

The main reason for the above restriction is actually that this is roughly what AI can target - the game engine doesn't allow creating the interactions in such a way that the AI could target any ruler, so to achieve parity, I restricted the human player similarly. Actually, the human player version is already much better than what the AI gets, because the AI can't really target "foreign rulers within a dynamic range" either, but I added some redirect coding to simulate the above (kind of).

 

Another reason is performance - evaluating the conditions for a much larger set of rulers visibly slows down the convenience interactions. It's also unrealistic - slave trade (any trade, actually) across great distances should be carried out via intermediaries, not directly.

 

That being said, I am not against adding a game rule to disable the trading range if you don't mind some advantages to the human player, a somewhat worse performance (should be ok on high-end machines), and broken realism. I am adding this to my list for the next version.

[whateverdontcare]

3 hours ago, pharaox said:

 

Which court positions exactly are not showing, do you mean the new slave court positions? They are not showing most likely because their prerequisites are not met. The prerequisites are mentioned in the README:

 

• Slave Concubine: diplomacy / attraction, restricted to polygamous religions and cultures, gives court grandeur and prestige (5 positions)
• Mameluke Captain: martial / prowess, restricted to clan governments, gives court grandeur and knights effectiveness (3 positions)
• Slave Eunuch: stewardship / intrigue, restricted to polygamous religions and cultures and cultures that can appoint Chief Eunuch, gives court grandeur, development growth, and hostile scheme resistance (3 positions)

 

The above prerequisites reflect the historical availability of important court positions to slaves, so no slave concubines if only monogamous marriages are allowed, no slave soldiers unless you are Muslim, and no slave eunuchs unless polygamy is allowed (so they can manage your harem), or your culture is vanilla-eligible for eunuchs.

 

I didn't modify the above for EK2, and since there are no clan governments in EK2, and relatively few polygamous religions or cultures, only the slave concubine positions shows up at all and much less often than in vanilla. This is all as it should be, I didn't want to invent things that don't exist in EK2 lore.

 

I tested this a lot before releasing so I believe the court positions are all working as described above. Do you find any differences?

Alright didn't see anywhere that it required polygamy.

Also your scripted triggers are horrible. There's two entirely pointless layers of triggers that just refer to other triggers and are single use.