Rule proposal regarding English as the main forum language

[naaitsab]

I get the feeling there is a growing trend going on that if some users get a hint someone speaks the same language they switch to that language. Resulting in a dialogue between those 2 users instead of an open conversation. I've even seen some posts of users translating other users English posts into their own language and then reply to that in their own language. Clearly expecting the others to use a translation tool. I'm also no native English speaker myself but as I see Loverslab as an English forum I respect that and don't switch to my native language even if I know some other user is to. 

 

As one of the core principles of a forum is to keep it open and accessible I would like to suggest a new forum rule to the admin/moderator team. Namely to only use English on the forum and downloads unless stated otherwise.

Some examples of this exception could include a translation mod with it's attached support thread. DM's, if agreed upon if there are other non-native speakers. I've also seen some members make an (translated) English post and add a spoilered/hidden addition in their native language. Which could also be used as some kind of in-between.

 

One of the most important community rules is 'don't be a jerk', one could argue that forcing/expecting others to translate your post because you don't adhere to the 99% of English written posts violates that rule. But adding a extra rule with some exceptions would be my preferred way as it keeps it friendly and most of all clear to all. If it's required for a moderator to intervene. 

[Alessia Wellington]

And how would you reliable enforce this rule?

[Wandering_Mania]

Could just make reporting non-English posts an allowable thing. That is when it is applicable.

 

Examples:

If it's an English OP and some dude comes in and starts speaking something else, reporting that post would be fine.

 

If it's a non-English OP, then speaking the language of the OP would be expected.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Wandering_Mania
Added clairity

[naaitsab]

55 minutes ago, Alessia Wellington said:

And how would you reliable enforce this rule?

Like all others, rely on reports from users or if one of the moderator team spots it themselves. Like @Wandering_Mania proposes. 

With all the rules a certain amount of common sense is mandatory. It's clear that this rule would not be as "severe" as let's say underage content or other plain banned actions. It's more intended to make it clear to all. As currently there are no rules regarding it or language specific sub-forums

 

 

[Guest]

Not gonna happen.

 

We prefer using English as much as possible. But if somebody has real problems, then it is better to use your own language.

Audience will be reduced but that is what you get.

 

It is polite to answer in the same language a user posts.

If you wanna be super-polite, post in your own language and provide an English translation.

 

 

All this is just "etiquette". We are not going to enforce or codify an imposed language.

 

 

[sanya56714]

I don't know your language and I don't have time to learn, I am 60 years old, in my entire life, this language has never been useful to me, so there was no need to learn.

[Miauzi]

Vor 1 Stunde sagte sanya56714:

Ich kenne Ihre Sprache nicht und habe keine Zeit zum Lernen, ich bin 60 Jahre alt, in meinem ganzen Leben war diese Sprache für mich nie nützlich, also war es nicht nötig, sie zu lernen.

 

I'm also 60 years old

and

I no longer intend to learn a language

yes - there are online translation programs

I have used them here in the forum - only I have repeatedly received messages from users of my own mother tongue (German) that these tools

translate misleadingly

I attach my native language original to longer texts - I write shorter texts directly in my native language

please why are there online translator plugins for browsers?

So that you can use them

 

Spoiler

bin ebenfalls 60 Jahre alt

und

ich habe nicht mehr vor eine Sprache zu erlernen

 

ja - es gibt Online-Übersetzungsprogramme

ich habe die bisher hier im Forum verwendet - nur ich habe immer wieder Meldung von Usern meiner eigenen Muttersprache (deutsch) bekommen das diese tools

missverständlich übersetzen

 

längeren texten hänge ich mein muttersprachliches Original an - kürzere Texte schreibe ich direkt in meiner Muttersprache

bitte wozu gibt es Online-Übersetzer als plugin für Browser?

Damit man diese nutzt

 

[Fakenet]

We already use mostly english despite mostly not beeing native english speakers.

We only switch to any other language if the english of the one who is requesting aid isn't that good.

 

This new rule would mean that we can't help them because some onlooker might not be able to follow what is happening and feels left out.

[Hex Bolt]

7 hours ago, naaitsab said:

I've even seen some posts of users translating other users English posts into their own language and then reply to that in their own language.

For what it's worth, this happens when the reader uses the browser's translation feature and then uses "quote selection" to respond to various questions or points in the post.  For example, I speak English.  I use browser translation to read posts in other languages.  When responding, I use "quote selection" (which quotes the English translation) and then respond in English.  I'm not trying to force the use of a particular language; it just works out that my response is in the language that I used to read it.  I believe that when you see English posts quoted in another language, that's all that is happening.

 

I like CPU's suggestion for replying twice, once in English and again as a courtesy in the other person's language, but I suspect that in practical terms the reader is going to just auto-translate the entire page, with the result that my reply would end up appearing twice in the reader's language.

[KoolHndLuke]

Yeah, but what nia ar edhelen? Il Vuhlkansu? Mo kava about huttese? 

[RitualClarity]

12 hours ago, naaitsab said:

I get the feeling there is a growing trend going on that if some users get a hint someone speaks the same language they switch to that language. Resulting in a dialogue between those 2 users instead of an open conversation. I've even seen some posts of users translating other users English posts into their own language and then reply to that in their own language. Clearly expecting the others to use a translation tool. I'm also no native English speaker myself but as I see Loverslab as an English forum I respect that and don't switch to my native language even if I know some other user is to. 

 

As one of the core principles of a forum is to keep it open and accessible I would like to suggest a new forum rule to the admin/moderator team. Namely to only use English on the forum and downloads unless stated otherwise.

Some examples of this exception could include a translation mod with it's attached support thread. DM's, if agreed upon if there are other non-native speakers. I've also seen some members make an (translated) English post and add a spoilered/hidden addition in their native language. Which could also be used as some kind of in-between.

 

One of the most important community rules is 'don't be a jerk', one could argue that forcing/expecting others to translate your post because you don't adhere to the 99% of English written posts violates that rule. But adding a extra rule with some exceptions would be my preferred way as it keeps it friendly and most of all clear to all. If it's required for a moderator to intervene. 

 

11 hours ago, CPU said:

Not gonna happen.

 

We prefer using English as much as possible. But if somebody has real problems, then it is better to use your own language.

Audience will be reduced but that is what you get.

 

It is polite to answer in the same language a user posts.

If you wanna be super-polite, post in your own language and provide an English translation.

 

 

All this is just "etiquette". We are not going to enforce or codify an imposed language.

 

 

This is a forum that is intended for multiple cultures, languages, sexual orientations, etc.

 

I am a native English speaker and it doesn't bother me if someone starts to post a different language. It happens rarely considering how many post are made each day. There are serious reasons for direct communication in native languages especially when someone doesn't understand technology and doesn't understand how to use translation tools and even more important, the translations are misleading or even downright wrong depending on what the speaker is translating.

 

As CPU stated, the individuals that are using native language is already having their audience reduced. 

 

Finally, "don't be a jerk" doesn't apply IMO. It is the same as content that someone might find offensive. Move on.

[Splendor Solis]

It doesn't happen enough to bother me. Not like the site is half-Hindi or anything. And sometimes those people actually get the help they need in their language, so everything works out.

[Guest]

> I have no problem with none English posts exchanged between two and more  LL members who speaks same language. If that's how they can communicate much easier and faster, why not?! (A particular gentleman always posted to me in Italian because he knows I speak Italian). But I would expect at least "machine translation" in English if the person started to talk to me in a language I do not understand. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Evaloves4

[naaitsab]

6 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

For what it's worth, this happens when the reader uses the browser's translation feature and then uses "quote selection" to respond to various questions or points in the post.  For example, I speak English.  I use browser translation to read posts in other languages.  When responding, I use "quote selection" (which quotes the English translation) and then respond in English.  I'm not trying to force the use of a particular language; it just works out that my response is in the language that I used to read it.  I believe that when you see English posts quoted in another language, that's all that is happening.

 

I like CPU's suggestion for replying twice, once in English and again as a courtesy in the other person's language, but I suspect that in practical terms the reader is going to just auto-translate the entire page, with the result that my reply would end up appearing twice in the reader's language.

Guess this is something recent then as I haven't seen it much before. The main issue I find with this is that the posts in non-English are next to always totally ignored. But as CPU stated that's their problem. It just clutters the forum and for some reason that bothers me more than it probably should  

 

53 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

 

This is a forum that is intended for multiple cultures, languages, sexual orientations, etc.

 

I am a native English speaker and it doesn't bother me if someone starts to post a different language. It happens rarely considering how many post are made each day. There are serious reasons for direct communication in native languages especially when someone doesn't understand technology and doesn't understand how to use translation tools and even more important, the translations are misleading or even downright wrong depending on what the speaker is translating.

 

As CPU stated, the individuals that are using native language is already having their audience reduced. 

 

Finally, "don't be a jerk" doesn't apply IMO. It is the same as content that someone might find offensive. Move on.

 

There is a big difference in not knowing something and not wanting something. In most if not all modern webbrowsers it's even embedded into it so just 2 clicks away, and the entire page is translated. Or go to translate.google.com or deepl.com. So I don't think there is much excuse for not putting in some effort for the 0,01%. Especially not in a game mod forum for adults. It's no 'elderly windows support forum' or something. The main goal here is to contribute openly and if that fails, then I would find it quite valid to adhere to some kind of guidelines. As now it mostly ends on a unused questions or an English poster stops replying to that user as the continue to talk in their own language. But I agree that some things don't go right when machine translating. The follow-up question could be if a DM would not be better in that case if it already results in a dialogue instead of a forum conversation.

[davisev5225]

There are practical, rules-enforcing and legal reasons to require posts be in English.  I guarantee Ashal and the moderation team don't speak every language on the planet, and it's unlikely that they even speak a majority of the commonly used languages.  Having to rely on machine translation slows down moderation efforts, and machine translations are never perfect, so they might miss something important due to mis-translation.

[Wandering_Mania]

36 minutes ago, davisev5225 said:

There are practical, rules-enforcing and legal reasons to require posts be in English.  I guarantee Ashal and the moderation team don't speak every language on the planet, and it's unlikely that they even speak a majority of the commonly used languages.  Having to rely on machine translation slows down moderation efforts, and machine translations are never perfect, so they might miss something important due to mis-translation.

That is a good point. Not to mention that people that don't have translation soft can't report something if it does break the rules; Simply because they wouldn't know that the rules where being broken if they don't speak that language.

[RitualClarity]

19 hours ago, naaitsab said:

Guess this is something recent then as I haven't seen it much before. The main issue I find with this is that the posts in non-English are next to always totally ignored. But as CPU stated that's their problem. It just clutters the forum and for some reason that bothers me more than it probably should  

 

 

There is a big difference in not knowing something and not wanting something. In most if not all modern webbrowsers it's even embedded into it so just 2 clicks away, and the entire page is translated. Or go to translate.google.com or deepl.com. So I don't think there is much excuse for not putting in some effort for the 0,01%. Especially not in a game mod forum for adults. It's no 'elderly windows support forum' or something. The main goal here is to contribute openly and if that fails, then I would find it quite valid to adhere to some kind of guidelines. As now it mostly ends on a unused questions or an English poster stops replying to that user as the continue to talk in their own language. But I agree that some things don't go right when machine translating. The follow-up question could be if a DM would not be better in that case if it already results in a dialogue instead of a forum conversation.

 you might not  know this but many of those authors that create content for this site isn't native English speakers. If I am correct even some of the moderators aren't native speaking English speakers.

 

Telling people they can't post something that you yourself stated is just a few clicks away and the entire page can be translated can be considered being a jerk. Not everybody knows how to do this. Forcing something like a specific language on a site catering to multinational membership could be considered in today's times as being racist.

 

Believe it or not this subject has come up many times before, you aren't original to this though. It has been squashed each time.

 

Finally a moderator chimed in and stated it isn't happening. Further discussion is  fruitless at this time. You can keep on trying to prove your point. Which you did adequately already. Just those that run the site, stated it isn't going to happen.

[RitualClarity]

2 hours ago, Wandering_Mania said:

That is a good point. Not to mention that people that don't have translation soft can't report something if it does break the rules; Simply because they wouldn't know that the rules where being broken if they don't speak that language.

People don't have to "report" anything regarding the rules being broken. There are many, many contributors that know how to translate something that do know the rules and can, if they so choose to, report something questionable. In the past, I reported something I was concerned was going to blow out of proportion. That and the moderators and of course the Admin are all over the site and see much of what goes on, even if it takes a few hours to a day to see it, they can easily address the problems. As posted above, it is easy to translate something.. also, the admin and moderators know members that are native speakers of almost any language that has been here. They can always ask if something went wonky if they ever feel the need to. (not that I believe they ever needed to)

[Wandering_Mania]

1 hour ago, RitualClarity said:

People don't have to "report" anything regarding the rules being broken. There are many, many contributors that know how to translate something that do know the rules and can, if they so choose to, report something questionable. In the past, I reported something I was concerned was going to blow out of proportion. That and the moderators and of course the Admin are all over the site and see much of what goes on, even if it takes a few hours to a day to see it, they can easily address the problems. As posted above, it is easy to translate something.. also, the admin and moderators know members that are native speakers of almost any language that has been here. They can always ask if something went wonky if they ever feel the need to. (not that I believe they ever needed to)

Well see that's something I'm definitely not used to. I mean, I may have an 'old' account, but I used to barely use it and/or 'participate' in anything that wasn't some mod I wanted for a game. I mostly used to stick to the Steam hubs. But since those are getting polluted with 'woke bastards', I kinda migrated here instead.

And on Steam... Well, false reporting, passive aggressive trolling, abuse of power, and all the "fun" ways to screw over anyone who ain't sucking the developers cocks; All that runs rampant.

[myuhinny]

I have never had a problem with non English posts as I just right click any page on any site and click translate to English.

[Wandering_Mania]

18 minutes ago, myuhinny said:

I have never had a problem with non English posts as I just right click any page on any site and click translate to English.

That's using a chrome based browser I'm guessing; Correct?

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, myuhinny said:

I have never had a problem with non English posts as I just right click any page on any site and click translate to English.

> Doing the same. The text is pretty good translated if using TWP- translate web pages extension for FF. It contains numerous languages

[myuhinny]

11 minutes ago, Wandering_Mania said:

chrome based browser

 

I'm using edge. It has sailormax translator already added to it. But I could go to extension and add a different one if I wanted to.

[RitualClarity]

On 10/28/2022 at 10:02 PM, Wandering_Mania said:

Well see that's something I'm definitely not used to. I mean, I may have an 'old' account, but I used to barely use it and/or 'participate' in anything that wasn't some mod I wanted for a game. I mostly used to stick to the Steam hubs. But since those are getting polluted with 'woke bastards', I kinda migrated here instead.

And on Steam... Well, false reporting, passive aggressive trolling, abuse of power, and all the "fun" ways to screw over anyone who ain't sucking the developers cocks; All that runs rampant.

There are problems that occur here. Also rule breaking. I haven't seen it bad as those locations you have mentioned here. I could be wrong but in any case, there are dozens of people at any given time looking over the threads that can use translator software, (as you stated it is easy) and know the rules that if something does get out of hand, they can report it. Moderation team here usually responds (or at least looks at it quickly)  Besides those dozens of people that know how to translate... chances are at any given movement there are likely again another half dozen of people that are native speakers of various post in different languages that can read what is happening quite easily. This is one of the few sites that I'd say has little issues with translation and very little opportunity for someone to try to be "funny" and pull something off against the rules... well at least for the long term.

 

I am a moderator of another similar site to to this one and we have no issues with someone using their native language to ask a question or post comments. It is easy to track down and see what is happening. Blocking them means we are blocking potential users of the site that might have something to contribute.  Sometimes, they get encouraged to actually start modding themselves.   I have personally worked with users that have moved to become mod content creators and more than one of them are not native English speakers. German, Russian for example is what they speak natively. Come to think of it most of those I work with are non-native English speakers!  Many are excellent (and sometimes more competent in English than native speakers ) at communicating in English

 

Browse the site for a couple of months and see the post and what happens and you will see this isn't like the other sites. 

[RitualClarity]

On 10/27/2022 at 11:32 PM, KoolHndLuke said:

Yeah, but what nia ar edhelen? Il Vuhlkansu? Mo kava about huttese? 

We need a Klingon translation program.