Fomm - Custom Build - 0.14.11.13

[prideslayer]

If you're going to lock the mods, I would think that you should get some output file (or something) to know which files the mod tried to change so that if you did want to change something manually you could.  For example, SCR and Pregnancy. both have a pacifier iirc.  While there probably isn't really a difference, you'd still want the latest one.

You're right, some kind of report would be required if it was "silently" not copying files due to a lock. In fact I think that should be there at the end of every mod install with a list of all the files the mod tried to install, what the result was, and why. A popup list you can see/copy/save is what I was thinking for a first draft of that. The code can already do that easy enough.

 

Initially a simple tab separated text document would work for this I think, with something like

 

filename     copied?      why
-----------------------------
foo.esm      yes
bar.esm      no           user said no
baz.esp      no           no to mod (name of other mod)
blah.bsa     no           mod lock (name of locked mod)

Does that make sense?

[prideslayer]

Oh that document for the 'yes' would also give a 'why' if it overwrote an existing file.

[niveuseverto]

If "report logic" will be implemented, may be we should make something like "Modding report", that will contain information about all installed mods with install order and overwrite reports?

[nyaalich]

Makes total sense to me.

[prideslayer]

Yeah I like that. There's already a load order report (that I am rewriting now in the BOSS thing) that could include that information.

[niveuseverto]

I was talking exactly about that! "Fallout Modding Recipes", that can be shared to mod developer/user as feedback/stability report/tutorial how to mod fallout.

[DoctaSax]

Yeah I like that. There's already a load order report (that I am rewriting now in the BOSS thing) that could include that information.

 

I'm definitely all for whatever gets added that provides more intel on which data gets overwritten & why. It's the same with Bash-like color-coding of the sync status of installed packages, really - I really like that feature (might have mentioned that once or twice ).

[prideslayer]

Keep your pants on doc... it's coming! Or drop them and dig into the nightmare that is C# and .net. It's fun, I promise!

[nyaalich]

Or, from the impression that I get, have .net dig into you. ; )

[DoctaSax]

Keep your pants on doc... it's coming! Or drop them and dig into the nightmare that is C# and .net. It's fun, I promise!

 

Uh-huh, like I'm gonna fall for that again - "drop your pants", "it won't hurt a bit"...

[prideslayer]

Or, from the impression that I get, have .net dig into you. ; )

Well my new teammate IS russian.. maybe he is to blame. Apologies in advance if you're not a fan of the "In Soviet Russia.." meme

 

 

Keep your pants on doc... it's coming! Or drop them and dig into the nightmare that is C# and .net. It's fun, I promise!

 

Uh-huh, like I'm gonna fall for that again - "drop your pants", "it won't hurt a bit"...

 

Come on doc. It's just the tip that you need to understand, I promise.

[niveuseverto]

=P

*niveuseverto is drinking vodka with bears

[Slammer64]

Sorry for the delay Pride, but here's what happens if I don't run it as Admin: 

Monday, February 17, 2014 - 11:07:58 AM
Fomm 0.14.9
OS version: Microsoft Windows NT 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1

System.ArgumentException: The property 'windowPositions' could not be created from it's default value. Error message: Unable to generate a temporary class (result=1).
error CS0016: Could not write to output file 'c:\Users\***\AppData\Local\Temp\-d6of6y0.dll' -- 'Access is denied. '

at System.Configuration.SettingsPropertyValue.Deserialize()
at System.Configuration.SettingsPropertyValue.get_PropertyValue()
at System.Configuration.SettingsBase.GetPropertyValueByName(String propertyName)
at System.Configuration.SettingsBase.get_Item(String propertyName)
at System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase.GetPropertyValue(String propertyName)
at System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase.get_Item(String propertyName)
at Fomm.Properties.Settings.get_windowPositions()
at Fomm.MainForm..ctor(String fomod)
at Fomm.Program.Main(String[] args)

[nyaalich]

The important question:  Are the bears high-fiving?

 

I was going to use "In .net, .net digs into...", but then that seemed redundant.  And while the original joke's format does involve "Soviet Russia," programming languages have no barriers when it comes to frustrations.

 

Regardless, I didn't mean to offend, and I hope that I did not.

[niveuseverto]

nyaa, it's ok =)

Just wait for next release *devil*

[nyaalich]

There's a reason why I don't code for a living.  ; )

[prideslayer]

Slammer, before I go digging into it to try and figure that out, do me a favor if you're feeling mildly brave?

 

Close FOMM, and go into your appdata dir (in your documents folder). Inside 'Local' there should be an FOMM dir. Open the properties for it and then 'take ownership' of it and everything in it. In win7 this is:

 

(during this step just ignore the fact that it might already look like it's owned by you)

1. Properties

2. Security tab

3. Advanced button

4. Owner tab.

5. Edit

6. Select your name/login.

7. Check the "replace owner on..." box.

8. Apply, OK, OK OK.....

 

 

See if that fixes it?

 

I think what actually happened is you ran it as administrator *once* and it wrote out the settings file owned by administrator, so now you can't access it as your normal user.

[Halstrom]

If you're going to lock the mods, I would think that you should get some output file (or something) to know which files the mod tried to change so that if you did want to change something manually you could.  For example, SCR and Pregnancy. both have a pacifier iirc.  While there probably isn't really a difference, you'd still want the latest one.

Pacifier as in mesh item or are we talking technogarble for something else?

[nyaalich]

Mesh.  It's a poor example as that it's nothing game changing (unless one has +2 to muffling loud noises), but maybe someone installs Fallout Character Overhaul and locks it, but then they also want a custom Veronica.  Veronica's face wouldn't change because FCO had locked it.  Hence, the need to know what files *weren't* updated. 

[blisst]

 

1).. true... so while the 5gb TTW fomods would be hosed.. the ~1gb lings should work with the LAA bit flipped..

1GB things will work without LAA, it's stuff over 2GB that doesn't. LAA tells the OS that the program is using unsigned values (0..+4GB) rather than signed values (-2GB..+2GB).

 

having said that.. I *think* what you came across was more of a UAC-related symptom, and the extra steps you took wouldn't matter on pre-vista versions of windows... that is if I understand any of what I've read about inheritable object permissions and .net

I don't think it was UAC related; I've never had to run FOMM as admin and never seen a UAC prompt when running it. It's just the fact that if a mod has an install script (script.cs) inside it, then FOMM will just execute that code -- that code is considered what's called "unmanaged" so it must be granted permissions explicitly by the parent process. I didn't realize that things as simple as reading environment vars are protected by that mechanism.

 

The unmanaged code protection makes sense when I think about it, I just wasn't aware of how it worked.

 

 

See.. this is where the .NET weirdness comes in.. because if I understand what I was reading on the TechNet forums .. permissions don't need to be explicitly granted and are inheritable when UAC is disabled... but when it's not.. then everything needs to be set up individually..

Having said that.. it's likely confusing a number of different things I was reading at the time about other issues.. and this is all unimportant anyway since you got it working.

 

 

And don't get me started on why IE seems to hate input boxes unless I turn on compatibility view.. its starting to become a real annoyance.. especially because its IE's own implementation of the text input box that's not working.. *sigh*.. multiquote doesn't let me quote your same post twice... I was trying t organize things in a more readable manner by coping the beginning of the quote line.. but IE fails to place clipboard contents into the input box.. *shrug*

 

 

1GB things "should" work w/o the LAA flag.. however the TTW lings they've got up on the TTW site errors out or me w/o it. But that's all ancient history now in theory with your more sensible approach to dealing with the archives.

 

 

Regarding the output view.. Looks fine to me.

 

 

Regarding .Net versioning.. like all the major MS libs they *SHOULD* be backwards compatible.. so if you compile in 4.5 any functions introduced in 2.0 *SHOULD* be supported.. so in theory users should only require the latest release package for their OS/Architecture to run ANY .NET application.. However in practice there are SOME apps that require specific versions to be installed alongside the current. This is a common trend in MS libraries (directx5/3 ickyness and countless versions of MSVC runtime libs are just a couple examples).. but the common practice seems to be force your users to upgrade to the current version anyway.. and if they want to run an older app that requires .Net 3.5 (this is the one I see that resolves a lot of versioning issues) they can install it alongside anyway.

Already just on Nexus there's a truckload of utils for both Fallout and Skyrm that require .Net 4.0 and higher.. so it seems to make sense to me that when people install GeMM that they get the .Net package that they'll likely need for half of those utils anyway.

 

 

Oh and regarding BOSS.. I've been beating my head against a wall trying to write a dumb little vbscript that reads in the FO3 masterlist and writes it out as a FNV Userlist (for use in TTW obviously).. unfortunately it's NOT going well.. most of the scripting info on vbscript or jscript is really out there with the concept of writing for webpages and not for WSH, furthermore the documentation out there for WSH is really geared more or accessing the registry and policy editor than generic file operations.. anyone got a pointer to a good useable site? If not.. I'll likely end up grabbing the free vstudio and trying my hand at doing it in VB.. but that seems just like so much overkill for something that cold be a command line on a Linux box with clever use of grep and cat.

[prideslayer]

See.. this is where the .NET weirdness comes in.. because if I understand what I was reading on the TechNet forums .. permissions don't need to be explicitly granted and are inheritable when UAC is disabled... but when it's not.. then everything needs to be set up individually..

Yes, that's true. Disabling UAC drops the walls between managed and unmanaged code, which is truly a bad idea. With UAC disabled, a nefarious person could put all kinds of malware in a fomod script, for example.

 

I just have to be more careful in testing; I think what I'll actually do is change the code so that the functions that must run in unmanaged code (the ones that may need to be called from a fomod script), always run unmanaged. That will let me catch bugs like that much more easily.

 

And don't get me started on why IE seems to hate input boxes unless I turn on compatibility view.

Time for a new browser?

 

 

1GB things "should" work w/o the LAA flag.. however the TTW lings they've got up on the TTW site errors out or me w/o it. But that's all ancient history now in theory with your more sensible approach to dealing with the archives.

Can you give me a link so I can look at it anyway? I looked in the converted mods forum area, didn't see it.

 

 

Oh and regarding BOSS.. I've been beating my head against a wall trying to write a dumb little vbscript that reads in the FO3 masterlist and writes it out as a FNV Userlist (for use in TTW obviously).. unfortunately it's NOT going well.. most of the scripting info on vbscript or jscript is really out there with the concept of writing for webpages and not for WSH, furthermore the documentation out there for WSH is really geared more or accessing the registry and policy editor than generic file operations.. anyone got a pointer to a good useable site? If not.. I'll likely end up grabbing the free vstudio and trying my hand at doing it in VB.. but that seems just like so much overkill for something that cold be a command line on a Linux box with clever use of grep and cat.

You could always use Java, Python, or even C#. The VB language family will always let you down, it's a great disappointment to your mother and I.

[prideslayer]

Oh speaking of the UAC thing, this is something that really bugs me with TTW -- the requirement to run-as-admin. I don't know why that's there. I'll have to take a look some time and see if I can fix whatever the problem is.

[Slammer64]

Sorry to say Pride, I did take full ownership of the FOMM directory, no change. Here's the crashdump: 

Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 7:58:07 AM
Fomm 0.14.9
OS version: Microsoft Windows NT 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1

System.ArgumentException: The property 'windowPositions' could not be created from it's default value. Error message: Unable to generate a temporary class (result=1).
error CS0016: Could not write to output file 'c:\Users\***\AppData\Local\Temp\3hhn7du3.dll' -- 'Access is denied. '

at System.Configuration.SettingsPropertyValue.Deserialize()
at System.Configuration.SettingsPropertyValue.get_PropertyValue()
at System.Configuration.SettingsBase.GetPropertyValueByName(String propertyName)
at System.Configuration.SettingsBase.get_Item(String propertyName)
at System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase.GetPropertyValue(String propertyName)
at System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase.get_Item(String propertyName)
at Fomm.Properties.Settings.get_windowPositions()
at Fomm.MainForm..ctor(String fomod)
at Fomm.Program.Main(String[] args)

 

It looks to me as if it's not the FOMM directory, but an error writing to another directory.

 

Nevermind, I found the REAL problem, Comodo was sandboxing the executable, soon as I it in trusted files, problem went away.

[prideslayer]

Hah, glad you found it..

 

When in doubt, check your AV program.

[blisst]

ya ya.. I know chrome or firefox.. but I can't be bothered

 

consequently i'm typing this in instead of pasting it..  http://taleoftwowastelands.com/content/lings-pretty-things-official-port  (forums, mod releases.. it's in there if link is fubar.. 1st post in thread)

I think it was both 14.(2,or 3? and 8) and 13.21 that snarfed on it w/o LAA bit.. but this behavior was not consistent that I recall.. just "could" happen.

Also if you roll NMC's f3 small, fnv small and poco Bueno into a bsa, and pack it.. that can kill FOMM also. (1.2g bsa)

 

 

I gravitated toward vbscript just because i'm somewhat familiar with syntax from many things excel/vba related.. so I was hoping a vbscript through WSH would do the trick that way no one would have to download python libs etc (I've personally had issues with PATHs and multiple python versions).. but I think the next plan is to try a vb.exe.. but i'm currently lacking motivation to break open vstudio.. maybe next week.. *shrug*

 

 

As for the run as admin in he TTW installer.. I *think* it's related to a few things...

1)... accessing the registry for the install dir for fo3/FNV

2)... calling console .net exe on win8... or opening the console session... I'm still fuzzy on this.. but the whole running BSAopt thing from the installer is a bit less than optimal..

Jax (he's coding the installer iirc) said there's some necessary tweaks from the current BSAopt, but no source available for current version to recompile it so that it will play nice with the installer..

3)... access to the "program files (x86)" directory.. .. ... but that should only be for write operations.. which isn't being handled by the installer.. the mod manager does that.. so don't quote me on this one

 

 

I don't know the ttw team's policy on their installer source.. I know I've got a link to it.. but I'm reluctant to share out of respect for their work.. I'm sure Chucksteel, Jaxfireheart, TrickyVein, Sesom, or Gribbleshinibbits8 could point you in the right direction.. they all seem to know what's up over there.. as I'm newb to their forum i'm still figuring things out and still don't know who officially is "on the team" (they don't seem to have that in the FAQ/docs from what I've seen)

 

 

 

PS.. NO TO MOD IS AWESOME!!!!!

 

 

Edit - PPS...

I did ask Jax about the possibility of using passthrough.exe from here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc164014.aspx to at least make he installer run w/o user-input by parsing the console windows for "Press enter to continue" then either terminating the console and moving on.. or sending the "enter" keystroke to the console and moving on to the next item.. but haven't heard back from him on my last series of inquiries.. so i'm not sure what the status is there.