Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[noctred]

18 minutes ago, Hex Bolt said:

SLTR doesn't equip the punishment weapon.  ZAP does that.  It always uses the Zaz punishment cane.  It's the only weapon that works with ZAP's whipping scene.  However, SLTR works its own magic to temporarily change the appearance of the punishment cane.  SLTR also temporarily reduces cane damage to 1 point and critical damage to zero (crits are zero damage in ZAP, but some naughty modder might have permanently increased it, so SLTR takes no chances).  When the scene ends, ZAP is back in the exact state it was in before the scene started.

 

Unfortunately, the game does not support temporarily swapping out the weapon impact data, so that stays the same.   I couldn't change it without modifying ZAP records.  I want maximum compatibility and minimal frustration for players, so I left that alone. 

 

Ok thanks. It's still not clear to me why SLTR specifically is having issues applying decals while the cane used in isolation applies them as expected, but I'll keep plugging away at it.

[Hex Bolt]

16 minutes ago, noctred said:

 

Ok thanks. It's still not clear to me why SLTR specifically is having issues applying decals while the cane used in isolation applies them as expected, but I'll keep plugging away at it.

It sounds like you've been really thorough, but if it helps, SLTR references zbfWeaponCane "zbf Punishment Cane" [WEAP:04006004] as the punishment cane.  That's what it expects the ZAP whipping scene to use, though as I mentioned, SLTR leaves equipping it to ZAP.  Also, maybe it makes no difference, but I think you were testing your character wielding the cane, whereas whipping has a follower wielding it.  Perhaps who wields it is inconsequential, but it's maybe something to consider.

[Hex Bolt]

20 hours ago, kingsglaive said:

Should we add the actions from this mod to SLTR as encouragement from the master to Lola?

https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/21583-slap-da-butt-se/?tab=reviews&sort=newest#review-11459

Yes.

 

Spoiler

 

Unfortunately, these things are rarely as simple as they might seem.  The challenge is that Butt Slap ("Slap da Butt") was not written with external access in mind (that's not a criticism, I'm just saying that this made it hard to work with).

 

I built an interface for SLTR to use butt slapping without altering anything in that mod.  (Patches or replacement scripts often lead to problems, so I avoid doing that.  It's more effort for me, but I prefer things that just work.)  I spent most of a day getting it working and fixing problems.   Run Lola Run now sends you on your way with a slap on the butt.  It's fun.  I just have to update other appropriate events now.

 

Here's how it will work.  You'll have to install Butt Slap for LE or SE.  This is NOT Spank That Ass; it's a different mod.  Having it is optional, of course, like SLTR's other soft integrations.  If you don't want that mod's periodic butt slapping, activate its Suspend toggle and only Submissive Lola events will do it.  SLTR treads lightly and plays nice.  It will not interfere with that mod's cooldown timer.  That mod won't see SLTR's butt slaps or be affected by them.

 

Other than not saying "Nice butt", butt slapping works the same as it does in that mod.  The slapper (your owner) teleports behind you to give you a butt slap when the conversation ends.  Teleporting looks a little strange, but it's necessary, and the owner is already in conversation range so it's a short distance.

 

We should be fine unless someone decides to improve that mod by adding a lot of complexity and new requirements until it's too hard to use and breaks a lot.

 

Butt Slap has a known problem that NPCs might change scale after slapping your butt.  It's a game engine problem that occurs when a script needs to pin an actor to a marker.  ZAP whipping has the same problem.  SLTR handles that by automatically resetting the actor scale afterwards if the "Reset actor scale" toggle is enabled on the MCM System page.  SLTR's butt slapping will also reset actor scale if the toggle is enabled (but only for its events, not Butt Slap's periodic slaps).  You could just suspend Butt Slap, only use it for SLTR, and never have the size problem.

 

Note:  An oddity of that mod is that the name of its MCM is SDBLE, for Slap da Butt LE, even if you have the SE version.  It took me awhile to find the thing in MCM (what's an "S-Double"?).  For SE users, maybe think of the LE as Lotsa Excitement.

Edited February 5 by Hex Bolt

[kingsglaive]

6 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

Yes.

 

  Hide contents

 

Unfortunately, these things are rarely as simple as they might seem.  The challenge is that Butt Slap ("Slap da Butt") was not written with external access in mind (that's not a criticism, I'm just saying that this made it hard to work with).

 

I built an interface for SLTR to use butt slapping without altering anything in that mod.  (Patches or replacement scripts often lead to problems, so I avoid doing that.  It's more effort for me, but I prefer things that just work.)  I spent most of a day getting it working and fixing problems.   Run Lola Run now sends you on your way with a slap on the butt.  It's fun.  I just have to update other appropriate events now.

 

Here's how it will work.  You'll have to install Butt Slap for LE or SE.  This is NOT Spank That Ass; it's a different mod.  Having it is optional, of course, like SLTR's other soft integrations.  If you don't want that mod's periodic butt slapping, activate its Suspend toggle and only Submissive Lola events will do it.  SLTR treads lightly and plays nice.  It will not interfere with that mod's cooldown timer.  That mod won't see SLTR's butt slaps or be affected by them.

 

Other than not saying "Nice butt", butt slapping works the same as it does in that mod.  The slapper (your owner) teleports behind you to give you a butt slap when the conversation ends.  Teleporting looks a little strange, but it's necessary, and the owner is already in conversation range so it's a short distance.

 

We should be fine unless someone decides to improve that mod by adding a lot of complexity and new requirements until it's too hard to use and breaks a lot.

 

Butt Slap has a known problem that NPCs might change scale after slapping your butt.  It's a game engine problem that occurs when a script needs to pin an actor to a marker.  ZAP whipping has the same problem.  SLTR handles that by automatically resetting the actor scale afterwards if the "Reset actor scale" toggle is enabled on the MCM System page.  SLTR's butt slapping will also reset actor scale if the toggle is enabled (but only for its events, not Butt Slap's periodic slaps).  You could just suspend Butt Slap, only use it for SLTR, and never have the size problem.

 

Note:  An oddity of that mod is that the name of its MCM is SDBLE, for Slap da Butt LE, even if you have the SE version.  It took me awhile to find the thing in MCM (what's an "S-Double"?).  For SE users, maybe think of the LE as Lotsa Excitement.

Perhaps we could use the butt-patting feature from this mod, and then configure it to be available only to the Master, while disabling it for everyone else.

[Hex Bolt]

6 hours ago, kingsglaive said:

Perhaps we could use the butt-patting feature from this mod, and then configure it to be available only to the Master, while disabling it for everyone else.

Rather than butt slapping at random times like the Butt Slap mod does, it works better when used with an event, such as swatting your butt to get you moving to run to fetch ale.  If you don't want that mod's periodic butt slapping, you can activate its Suspend toggle and only the owner will do it for Submissive Lola events.  Some butt slapping is fun, but if it's overused that would tend to spoil the effect.  I want to see how things feel when I have more events set up to use it.

Edited February 5 by Hex Bolt

[IBAGadget]

I just wish that Slap Da Butt integrated with Spank That Ass so that STA would register the spanks for its mechanics

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, IBAGadget said:

I just wish that Slap Da Butt integrated with Spank That Ass so that STA would register the spanks for its mechanics

Yeah, though conceptually, the events are a little different.  StA is mainly about getting some spanks during sex, whereas SdB is a single swat.  Unfortunately, StA doesn't have a mod event to register a single swat as something like a gentle spanking; it's all or nothing.  SdB's default cooldown is only 72 seconds, so that could add up quickly.

 

My testing of integrating using of SdB ("Butt Slap") with SLTR is going well.  That slap on the bare butt to send you off for Pony Express looks nice.  *smack* "Trot, trot!"

[shrtjsrtj]

1 hour ago, Hex Bolt said:

Yeah, though conceptually, the events are a little different.  StA is mainly about getting some spanks during sex, whereas SdB is a single swat.  Unfortunately, StA doesn't have a mod event to register a single swat as something like a gentle spanking; it's all or nothing. 

 

Just curious, but what do you mean by all or nothing? As in you have to play the STA bump spank in its entirety to get the redness, buffs/debuffs and masochism increases and can't skip the animation, ass clapping, etc.?

Edited February 6 by shrtjsrtj

[Hex Bolt]

19 hours ago, shrtjsrtj said:

Just curious, but what do you mean by all or nothing? As in you have to play the STA bump spank in its entirety to get the redness, buffs/debuffs and masochism increases and can't skip the animation, ass clapping, etc.?

STA doesn't have a mod event for bump spanks, only for full spanks, the kind that cause stamina loss (or gain).  So, Slap da Butt would have to communicate to STA that a full sex spanking occurred or do nothing (as it does now).  Doing nothing is more appropriate, given that the butt slap is just a single swat.  If you look at the animation, I think it might, at most, leave a slight pinkness that fades away in a minute.

 

To clarify, those two mods are completely separate.  They don't rely on each other or communicate with each other.  SdB just offers a very nice animation and the toggleable ability to have NPCs randomly use it on the player.  STA does not have its own animation (it uses the vanilla IdleTake as an approximation), but it has stats tracking and debuffing that might or might be of interest to other mods.

Edited February 6 by Hex Bolt

[patron_st]

Can you tell me which animation from Zaz is used for Lola's standing animation in the quest of checking the collar? I want to create an idle animation based on this animation

[Hex Bolt]

6 minutes ago, patron_st said:

Can you tell me which animation from Zaz is used for Lola's standing animation in the quest of checking the collar?

IdleHandsBehindBack [IDLE:000B240A]

[shiagwen]

Which version of radiant prostitution do you take in SE ?   Wrath SLyers isnt ported to SE, as far as i know.

[Hex Bolt]

7 minutes ago, shiagwen said:

Which version of radiant prostitution do you take in SE ?   Wrath SLyers isnt ported to SE, as far as i know.

Any of them should work.  As far as I know, none of them change the basic structure, so SLTR can get the data that it needs.

[shiagwen]

14 minutes ago, Hex Bolt said:

Any of them should work.  As far as I know, none of them change the basic structure, so SLTR can get the data that it needs.

The gigolo Version just ads some dialogues about race sex. the newer version adds debt from simple slavery and how much she has to pay back daily, what i like very much. but he deleted the approching. can you inagine that? RP was the only mod wioth perfect approching,  a whore never goes to possible clients. she is alwyays waiting at some place and wait to be approached. 

do you think it is possible to install both mods, gigolo after the no-approacher so gigolo brings approaching back ?  or,. in other words, could YOU take over the debt system from simple slavery to RP or Lola ?  No excused please, i know you dont want. thats not the point.  it would bring sense in the auction gold spend to buy her. 

[Hex Bolt]

46 minutes ago, shiagwen said:

do you think it is possible to install both mods, gigolo after the no-approacher so gigolo brings approaching back ?

No, they would conflict with each other.  If you always used the approach mode, you'll probably like the gigolo version better, since you will benefit from that feature all that time, rather than just sometimes making use of a debt system in the other version.  You can simulate having the owner pay off a debt by increasing the owner's daily expenses, decreasing the owner's starting gold, and/or making your share of the gold lower than it would normally be.

[Hex Bolt]

I will look at adding a debt system for when Submissive Lola is the auction outcome.  It would work something like this:

 

- You'll still have contract days.

 

- Any gold you might still have after the auction is removed from you and the auction chest.  No one is going to sell someone into slavery and not take that person's gold.

 

- When the owner does not feel poor, half of the owner's gold share will be applied to your debt.  Debt payments disappear rather than going into the owner's inventory, so those payments will have no future benefit to you.

 

- All of your share of prostitution earnings will be applied to the debt.  (Part of the owner's share of that is assumed to go to fees and taxes.)

 

- While you have debt, you won't be able to leave enslavement, you won't be able to spend the owner's gold, and you won't be able to take gold from the owner's inventory.

Edited February 7 by Hex Bolt

[Hex Bolt]

Okay, I've built the Slave Debt feature, but before I start testing, I'm having serious seconds thoughts about the repayment concept.

 

As was stated above, when the owner does not feel poor, half of the owner's gold share will be applied to your debt.  The owner will not accept cash payments.  This makes you work to pay off your debt, which might well keep you enslaved longer than you expected (owners are known to be sneaky like that).

 

The problem is prostitution earnings.  That got messy.  Forced prostitution is the main way for the owner to get out of poverty.  Owners will not want to apply that income to debt, so you might get stuck for a while just getting the owner out poverty before you can even start paying off the debt.  I didn't think the owner would want to use half of his or her prostitution earnings to reduce the debt, since part of that is supposed to be going to fees and taxes.  So, it would be paid from your share.  Fair enough, but what about players who set the owner's share to 100%?  Perma-slave?  I guess they'd eventually figure out why prostitution wasn't reducing their debt, but it's potentially confusing.

 

Radiant Prostitution also complicates things because you receive all the gold and have to keep it until you finish working and the innkeeper takes a cut.  I built it so that your cut should be getting deducted while you work, leaving you just enough to pay the innkeeper's share, but it's a little tricky.  RP quests can pay you a bonus.  I think I handled all that right, but it feels like too much complexity with too many opportunities for something to go wrong.  I hate to throw away the hours of work on that part, but I'm concerned about the potential for problems.

 

Also, with gradual automatic deductions, you don't see your debt go down unless you look at the MCM (you do not want to see a debt update notification every time the owner gets a share of your gold).

 

So, I'm thinking now that maybe just letting you give gold to the owner might be better.  It's simple and straightforward.  Even though after the auction you will lose all gold that you had with you, you could just go to a stash that you left somewhere and pay the debt.  It seems rather easy, but is it really that bad?  You are losing the gold, you still have a contract, and if you don't have a gold stash, you still have to earn gold.

 

Reliable and obvious seems best, even if it might be a little too easy.  If you want to have to whore your way out of debt, pretend that the owner won't accept payments from a stash and just work for it.

 

Thoughts, anyone?

Edited February 7 by Hex Bolt

[shiagwen]

55 minutes ago, shiagwen said:

i translated the auctionaers in SS++ from hundreds to thousands.  What are 400-1200 gold ? As one auctionaer said  : "she makes that back in a day."  so go for 4000-12000 and the auction looks more serious.  Paying back does not mean to get free. The owner wants to make a profit . At least 100 %. Having to prostitute for 8000-24000 gold matches the cost of a house. That takes a while. ( and prevents you to double the costs for houses )

Gold from adventuring and from prostituion will always conflict.  for example at gamestart pc can make 3500-4000 gold in a day around riverwood. She cant make that in prostitution with prices of 50-100.

You have to decide weather you dont get money from adventuring or you dont get gold from prostitution. You cant mix both plus you cant pay prostitution costs with adventuring gold. 

 

 

ups !  On the other hand you raise the slider for prostituion cooldown up to 30 days, because people want it so.  That means payback debt must be possible with adventuring gold.  Tthat  looks like a couple of options.

Edited February 7 by shiagwen

[Seeker999]

10 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

Thoughts, anyone?

You probably shouldn't have asked, ha!, but here you go:

• - Any gold you might still have after the auction is removed from you and the auction chest.  No one is going to sell someone into slavery and not take that person's gold. Absolutely agree
• - When the owner does not feel poor, half of the owner's gold share will be applied to your debt.  Debt payments disappear rather than going into the owner's inventory, so those payments will have no future benefit to you. My opinion? I think all debt should come from player's share, no matter how earned.
• The problem is prostitution earnings.  ....  So, it would be paid from your share.  Fair enough, but what about players who set the owner's share to 100%? Reminder through dialog:  "Slave, you owe me a lot of money. Until that is paid off all your normal share of any gold goes directly to servicing your debt."
• Radiant Prostitution also complicates things because you receive all the gold and have to keep it until you finish working and the innkeeper takes a cut. Don't mess w/ RP. Below I state that I don't have a problem with handing gold to owner. 

• Also, with gradual automatic deductions, you don't see your debt go down unless you look at the MCM (you do not want to see a debt update notification every time the owner gets a share of your gold). How about 2 updates: 

1. when your owner is feeling poor you'll see a notice that your debt doesn't get paid/owner adds to your debt until the owner feels more comfortable. Or whatever wording. Obviously, this wouldn't fire all the time, only when owner's poverty level comes into play

2. A daily or even 12-hour cycle notifying you of the amount of debt. Shouldn't be too intrusive and people can still check the mcm if they wish

• So, I'm thinking now that maybe just letting you give gold to the owner might be better. That is fine. I don't have a problem with paying gold directly. But. What about if you have over x gold, the owner is annoyed by you holding out on them and takes a sizeable portion as a penalty tax. That would not go towards debt and any gold share/debt payment is calculated after deducting the penalty tax.

• Reliable and obvious seems best, even if it might be a little too easy. Can't argue with reliability and stability

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, Seeker999 said:

So, I'm thinking now that maybe just letting you give gold to the owner might be better. That is fine. I don't have a problem with paying gold directly. But. What about if you have over x gold, the owner is annoyed by you holding out on them and takes a sizeable portion as a penalty tax. That would not go towards debt and any gold share/debt payment is calculated after deducting the penalty tax.

Yeah, I just had to walk away for a while and rethink the situation.  I agree that repayment should come entirely from Lola's share.  A consequence of this decision is that players who like being financially dependent slaves with very low or zero player gold share will have to increase that to something fair until the debt is paid.  That, or don't use the debt feature if you know you're not going to have any gold of your own.

 

The new approach will be simple and effective.  I'm not going to touch prostitution earnings.  I've learned that it gets messy, so it will just be another source of income.  At the end of each service day, after the calculation for owner poverty and potentially taking gold from you for that, half of what you have left will be taken to repay the debt.  That gold disappears, so you won't be able to spend it later with the shopping feature.  So, the debt gets repaid whether you like it or not, and you only see one message per day.

 

You can also talk to the owner to repay the debt if you want to clear it faster.

 

Your buyer will inform you that you have a debt to repay during the enslavement scene.

 

Any remaining debt carries forward to the next auction.  While you have debt, you won't be able to leave enslavement, you won't be able to spend the owner's gold, and you won't be able to take gold from the owner's inventory.

Edited February 7 by Hex Bolt

[SkyAddiction]

3 hours ago, Seeker999 said:

What about if you have over x gold, the owner is annoyed by you holding out on them and takes a sizeable portion as a penalty tax. That would not go towards debt and any gold share/debt payment is calculated after deducting the penalty tax.

 

I like this regardless of how the other aspects eventually sort out. If I have say, 10k gold and I choose to use it to clear 2k debt or whatever, that's just another option that I can use to make things different.

[Hex Bolt]

4 hours ago, SkyAddiction said:

I like this regardless of how the other aspects eventually sort out. If I have say, 10k gold and I choose to use it to clear 2k debt or whatever, that's just another option that I can use to make things different.

Holding out will be inconvenient at best.  The daily update will take half your gold to pay toward the debt.  Sure, you could watch the time and hide your gold in a container until the update passes, but that's going to get tedious.  You'll forget, and the owner will get a nice payment.  We'll see how it works in practice, but I think players will decide fairly quickly to just bow to the owner's will, as it should be.

[SkyAddiction]

1 hour ago, Hex Bolt said:

Holding out will be inconvenient at best.  The daily update will take half your gold to pay toward the debt.  Sure, you could watch the time and hide your gold in a container until the update passes, but that's going to get tedious.  You'll forget, and the owner will get a nice payment.  We'll see how it works in practice, but I think players will decide fairly quickly to just bow to the owner's will, as it should be.

 

I meant something like the following:

 

I have 20k debt. I have 200k in a chest in a player home. I can pick up and use 100k to clear the debt (assuming the arbitrary 5:1 ratio I used in the previous example) and be done with it for the cost of half my PC's fortune if I want, or I can just leave it for later use and pay it off as I go.

 

You're planning a system based on the gold sharing settings and some form of voluntary contribution, so I guess I'm misunderstanding how debt is calculated and the full scope of options to deal with it?

 

Also, how is the debt going to be determined in the first place? Using the base auction value + extra amount in the SS++ freedom fund settings? 

 

Edit: Oh, and in my never-ending quest for more options for disobedient RP, adding debt for having negative score would also be well received. 

Edited February 8 by SkyAddiction

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, SkyAddiction said:

Also, how is the debt going to be determined in the first place? Using the base auction value + extra amount in the SS++ freedom fund settings? 

I'll start with this one.  Forget Simple Slaver's freedom fund.  If you have enough in your freedom fund, you get released into your pre-auction state (if you were a slave, you're still a slave to the same owner; otherwise, you go free).  You paid for your own freedom, so there's no other debt.

 

SS++ does not specify an auction value.  Player economies vary wildly, so bidding refers to an unspecified starting bid.  It could be a hundred septims or a million; you don't know.  Bidders offer amounts in excess of that.  Bidding dialog has no bearing on any debt to your owner.

 

If you want a debt to your owner as an auction buyer, you'll use a new setting in SLTR.  That defines your debt.

 

1 hour ago, SkyAddiction said:

I have 20k debt. I have 200k in a chest in a player home. I can pick up and use 100k to clear the debt (assuming the arbitrary 5:1 ratio I used in the previous example) and be done with it for the cost of half my PC's fortune if I want, or I can just leave it for later use and pay it off as I go.

If your debt is 20K, that's all that your owner will take from you.  If you have 100K on you when the service day ends, the owner takes 20K and your debt is cleared.  If you have 1K on you, the owner takes 500 septims, reducing your debt to 19,500.

 

Owners don't have to be fair, but they do conform to rules*.  They won't cripple you financially.  As the player, you choose a debt amount; that's what your character will have to pay.

 

* The "Slave Management" book is part of my Submissive Lola lore.  You won't find it in the game, but your owner will have read it thoroughly.  You don't get to see it, of course ("Such knowledge is not for you, Lola").  If you're her first slave, Mistress will probably go "by the book".  The expert advice should benefit both of you.  Even a newbie slave owner will know what she's doing.  She'll be prepared to handle you.  An experienced owner will still be influenced by it.

 

1 hour ago, SkyAddiction said:

Oh, and in my never-ending quest for more options for disobedient RP, adding debt for having negative score would also be well received.

I'm staying away from gold debt in Submissive Lola.  That's too much like Devious Followers.  It's very reasonable for your owner to want to recover the cost of buying you from the slave market, but that's as far as it goes.  Your owner wants your submission and obedience much more than your gold.  However, if you want a gold penalty, the Bad Service Gold Loss feature added in 2.1.14 gives the owner a way to punish you financially for unacceptable service, and that gold stash at home won't be safe from the owner's vengeance.  Set the penalty high and see how fast your owner can break you financially (it's for the best, you know).

[SkyAddiction]

20 minutes ago, Hex Bolt said:

I'll start with this one.

[...]

I'm staying away from gold debt in Submissive Lola.

[...]

 

So a configurable value in SLTR, and no extra options for negative submission being considered?

 

Got it.

 

Just to make it clear, none of this is a complaint - I just wanted to understand what this is going to be.

 

26 minutes ago, Hex Bolt said:

Set the penalty high

 

Okay, now you're teasing us...

You know what? Nevermind. I kind of want to be surprised at this point.