Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[Talesien]

2 hours ago, lovalter said:

Works perfectly for me so not sure what you mean

That's great, but I'm afraid, a sample size of one does not disprove the various reports of bugs and other weirdness that have accumulated over the years, connected to the usage of Kalmahs addon. IIRC Hex also recommends not to use it anymore. It can work, especially if you run a smaller modlist that does not change too much in the environment. By and at large, it worked for me the last time I used it. That does not prove that it does not influence other SLTR functions in a bad way. It also tended to lose vs. NFF sandboxing, causing some problems.

[lovalter]

5 minutes ago, Talesien said:

That's great, but I'm afraid, a sample size of one does not disprove the various reports of bugs and other weirdness that have accumulated over the years, connected to the usage of Kalmahs addon. IIRC Hex also recommends not to use it anymore. It can work, especially if you run a smaller modlist that does not change too much in the environment. By and at large, it worked for me the last time I used it. That does not prove that it does not influence other SLTR functions in a bad way. It also tended to lose vs. NFF sandboxing, causing some problems.

Well most people just say that it's too old, no examples of actual issues. I am on .1170 with 1k+ mods and I have never encountered a single bug, so just blanket telling people not to use it cause it breaks stuff is misleading

[Hex Bolt]

4 hours ago, lovalter said:

Works perfectly for me so not sure what you mean

SLTR has evolved a lot in the four years since Kalmah's add-on was last updated.  One of the most noticeable problems is its anal hook, which conflicts with butt plugs used by SLTR, such as for the Faster, Lola, Faster event.  It uses some SLTR function calls that are outdated or possibly even no longer present, leading to silent failures to accomplish what the add-on was trying to do.  It makes intrusive changes to SLTR in ways that could cause problems for SLTR.  (I should have been more engaged with what Kalmah was doing at the time.  Those changes are worrisome.  I've asked the authors of SLTR add-ons not to do this kind of thing.  The other authors have not, so their add-ons play nice with SLTR.)  Not a direct concern for SLTR, but Kalmah's add-on changes vanilla beds in inns (not a problem as long as the player doesn't use an inn overhaul mod that also changes those beds).

 

Kalmah was a really nice guy while he was here.  He was very helpful to others.  If he'd continued his work, I'm sure the add-on would be in a better state.  I still provide a link to the add-on, but I don't recommend using it; I caution players to "use at your own risk".  If you're not noticing any problems, that's great, but if you're getting some weird behavior from SLTR or the add-on at times, the add-on might be at fault.

 

I have a note on my to-do list to look over Kalmah's add-on for features that might make sense to pull into SLTR.  Any suggestions for things you like in the add-on that fit SLTR's tone?

Edited February 1, 2025 by Hex Bolt

[lovalter]

21 minutes ago, Hex Bolt said:

SLTR has evolved a lot in the four years since Kalmah's add-on was last updated.  One of the most noticeable problems is its anal hook, which conflicts with butt plugs used by SLTR, such as for the Faster, Lola, Faster event.  It uses some SLTR function calls that are outdated or possibly even no longer present, leading to silent failures to accomplish what the add-on was trying to do.  It makes intrusive changes to SLTR in ways that could cause problems for SLTR.  (I should have been more engaged with what Kalmah was doing at the time.  Those changes are worrisome.  I've asked the authors of SLTR add-ons not to do this kind of thing.  The other authors have not, so their add-ons play nice with SLTR.)  Not a direct concern for SLTR, but Kalmah's add-on changes vanilla beds in inns (not a problem as long as the player doesn't use an inn overhaul mod that also changes those beds).

 

Kalmah was a really nice guy while he was here.  He was very helpful to others.  If he'd continued his work, I'm sure the add-on would be in a better state.  I still provide a link to the add-on, but I don't recommend using it; I caution players to "use at your own risk".  If you're not noticing any problems, that's great, but if you're getting some weird behavior from SLTR or the add-on at times, the add-on might be at fault.

 

I have a note on my to-do list to look over Kalmah's add-on for features that might make sense to pull into SLTR.  Any suggestions for things you like in the add-on that fit SLTR's tone?

I see, thanks for the detailed explanation. I have to say that I never encountered the issues mentioned, every event (from both the addon and sltr) works as it should.

The sleep and city bondage events in particular are an absolute must for me, but if I remember correctly you don't like things that prevent the player from playing the game  

[Hex Bolt]

28 minutes ago, lovalter said:

The sleep and city bondage events in particular are an absolute must for me, but if I remember correctly you don't like things that prevent the player from playing the game

Right.  A few things like that for slaves in deep negative territory might fit okay, but I don't expect players to spend much time there, so it's not worthwhile if the effort is a lot.  City bondage might not be hard to do for negative score territory.  SLTR already adds its own burden carrying event (two of them), but the above-mentioned anal hook could be a good addition, depending on how it's used.

Edited February 1, 2025 by Hex Bolt

[serph90]

34 minutes ago, lovalter said:

I see, thanks for the detailed explanation. I have to say that I never encountered the issues mentioned, every event (from both the addon and sltr) works as it should.

The sleep and city bondage events in particular are an absolute must for me, but if I remember correctly you don't like things that prevent the player from playing the game  

try using the mod "binding" it has sleep bondage and the option to be forced in bondage while in cities. It should work fine with submissive lola

Edited February 1, 2025 by theprof90

[kingsglaive]

39 minutes ago, lovalter said:

I see, thanks for the detailed explanation. I have to say that I never encountered the issues mentioned, every event (from both the addon and sltr) works as it should.

The sleep and city bondage events in particular are an absolute must for me, but if I remember correctly you don't like things that prevent the player from playing the game  

(City Bondage), (Enough is Enough), and (Marked Property) can be used normally.

[lovalter]

30 minutes ago, theprof90 said:

try using the mod "binding" it has sleep bondage and the option to be forced in bondage while in cities. It should work fine with submissive lola

I am, and I love it, but it does things quite differently.

 

25 minutes ago, kingsglaive said:

(City Bondage), (Enough is Enough), and (Marked Property) can be used normally.

What do you mean normally?

[wren888]

2 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

I have a note on my to-do list to look over Kalmah's add-on for features that might make sense to pull into SLTR.  Any suggestions for things you like in the add-on that fit SLTR's tone?

I've never played with Kalmah's add-on, but from his description on his OP, it sounds to me like, for slaves with a negative score, City Bondage would be good. If the slave is particularly onerous, I'd like Enough is Enough, so long as ample warning is given before a final solution. I'd like to avoid that for my character. An alternative that occurs to me is that the owner could set Lola free, but impose a huge debt for her poor behavior. I suggest 10,000 gold for each point of negative score. If she fails to pay up, he could send thugs to collect on a regular basis the same way Mogrul does in the Dragonborn dlc. If they're too easy for a newly freed Lola to kill, each group of thugs sent could be a little tougher than the last.

 

The second paragrapg of Kalmah's Restless Slave sounds interesting to me: "In addition, it'll be your owner who sleeps in a comfy bed whilst staying in inns. Slaves, after all, should sleep on the floor. Ill-behaved slaves suffer an even worse fate, drawing from up to 7 custom animations." I'm curious what those seven animations are.

 

It brings to mind Coffee's Task Extension addon with its sleep-in-a-cage enhancement. I've been wanting to try that, but because I've been playing LE, I've been unable to because that activity's prerequisite mod is SE only. However, I'm in the process of switching over to SE. Specifically, to GOG AE version 1.6.1179.08. It's taking a while to get things right. I thought I'd be unable to run most of the mods here at LL, but people have been so helpful with fixes, and either authors have done a good job of updating their mods, or other people have written patches. As a result, it looks like I may be able to run most things. You make things particularly convenient, HexBolt, with your LE and SE version in the same place, just like you did with Simple Slavery. At any rate, even if I have difficulty with Coffee's addon, perhaps you'll add something like it or Kalmah's sleep punishment. That would be welcome.

 

Thank you for all your hard work. Also, for your assistance on these pages.

Edited February 1, 2025 by wren888

[Hex Bolt]

53 minutes ago, wren888 said:

If the slave is particularly onerous, I'd like Enough is Enough, so long as ample warning is given before a final solution. I'd like to avoid that for my character.

I would not do anything that drastic here.  My thought is that Lola is naturally submissive (even if it's a hidden character trait initially) and doesn't require extreme punishment.  Otherwise, she wouldn't have voluntarily submitted, or if bought, the owner would only select a slave with a suitable personality and leave the troublesome ones to be bought by someone else.  It's enough to just give her a little push if she needs it initially.  So, bending the approach of not restricting gameplay for a short time might be acceptable.

 

57 minutes ago, wren888 said:

An alternative that occurs to me is that the owner could set Lola free, but impose a huge debt for her poor behavior.

I don't reward Lola for bad behavior if she decides that the debt is preferable.  If you have a contract, you must serve for its duration.  Knowing that there's no escape can help Lola focus on behaving well enough to be released at the contract's end.

 

1 hour ago, wren888 said:

It brings to mind Coffee's Task Extension addon with its sleep-in-a-cage enhancement.

I do have a to-do item for sleeping arrangements in SLTR, but it hasn't been a high priority because it's also done elsewhere.

 

1 hour ago, wren888 said:

You make things particularly convenient, HexBolt, with your LE and SE version in the same place, just like you did with Simple Slavery.

That's the goal!  You shouldn't have any trouble with those mods when transitioning your game version.

[wren888]

1 hour ago, Hex Bolt said:

I would not do anything that drastic here.  My thought is that Lola is naturally submissive (even if it's a hidden character trait initially) and doesn't require extreme punishment.  Otherwise, she wouldn't have voluntarily submitted, or if bought, the owner would only select a slave with a suitable personality and leave the troublesome ones to be bought by someone else.  It's enough to just give her a little push if she needs it initially.  So, bending the approach of not restricting gameplay for a short time might be acceptable.

 

I don't reward Lola for bad behavior if she decides that the debt is preferable.  If you have a contract, you must serve for its duration.  Knowing that there's no escape can help Lola focus on behaving well enough to be released at the contract's end.

 

I do have a to-do item for sleeping arrangements in SLTR, but it hasn't been a high priority because it's also done elsewhere.

Yes. After you explain your reasoning, all that makes sense to me.

[Anunya]

3 hours ago, lovalter said:

The sleep and city bondage events in particular are an absolute must for me, but if I remember correctly you don't like things that prevent the player from playing the game  

 

IMO the city bondage event doesn't prevent the player from playing the game. When you analyze the event it's essentially: 1) get tied up, 2) press the wait button, 3) get untied (with cold & hunger effects if you have mods enabled for that). Essentially it's a time-skip with some flavour. So Lola wastes most of a day being tied up (and if you have any mods where time matters that advances as well), but from the perspective of the player it's just a minute or two IIRC.

 

I'm also a big fan of that event  

[lovalter]

9 minutes ago, Anunya said:

 

IMO the city bondage event doesn't prevent the player from playing the game. When you analyze the event it's essentially: 1) get tied up, 2) press the wait button, 3) get untied (with cold & hunger effects if you have mods enabled for that). Essentially it's a time-skip with some flavour. So Lola wastes most of a day being tied up (and if you have any mods where time matters that advances as well), but from the perspective of the player it's just a minute or two IIRC.

 

I'm also a big fan of that event  

Well you can skip it, but that just makes the whole thing pointless imo

[lordbor]

Is it not compatible with DD NG? For some reason, if I turn on DD NG, then Lola does not appear in the MCM menu. And if I try to re-save, it causes the game to crash. But if you run the mods separately, then everything is fine.  

Addition: It seems that the mod is not compatible with the latest version of DD NG 3.9. I rolled back to DD NG 3.7 AND EVERYTHING WORKED.

Edited February 2, 2025 by lordbor

[Hex Bolt]

2 hours ago, lordbor said:

Is it not compatible with DD NG?

Very unlikely.  This mod is developed on LE, for which DD NG does not exist, so no DD NG features or functions are used.  It uses DD 5.2 content (which DD NG uses and requires).  I've seen several posts recently about missing/blank MCMs; I've assumed that a recent Skyrim update caused problems for some players on SE/AE.  Since reverting your version of DD NG solved your problem, you might want to report this on that mod's support topic.  There might be a solution that allows you to use its latest version.

Edited February 2, 2025 by Hex Bolt

[Hex Bolt]

4 hours ago, lovalter said:

Well you can skip it, but that just makes the whole thing pointless imo

This is why I don't care for lockup events.  They just encourage the player to skip to the end.  Skipping time complicates reaching Lola's daily service quotas, so we don't want a feature that undermines another feature.  Any implementation of "city bondage" would be bondage in cities rather than an immobilization event like Kalmah's "City Bondage".  The goal would be something that's inconvenient but not crippling, as well as an opportunity to use some bondage gear.

[SkyAddiction]

14 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

I have a note on my to-do list to look over Kalmah's add-on for features that might make sense to pull into SLTR.  Any suggestions for things you like in the add-on that fit SLTR's tone?

 

3 and 5 in the spoiler section could fit.

#3 works if you borrow Public Whore's tattoo idea, where they're temporary and painted, but look and feel permanent.

#5 works if you have any interest in restricting the player in town. Most DD items don't actually restrict the player from workstations and traders, so you have a bit of room to work there, and you could just use a cell check to determine if the player is somewhere that's dangerous, like Shimmermist Cave.

 

13 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

Right.  A few things like that for slaves in deep negative territory might fit okay, but I don't expect players to spend much time there, so it's not worthwhile if the effort is a lot.  City bondage might not be hard to do for negative score territory.  SLTR already adds its own burden carrying event (two of them), but the above-mentioned anal hook could be a good addition, depending on how it's used.

 

The easiest way to handle this, and I have a deeply vested interest in seeing this work out, is through dialogue.

 

Have the owner denigrate, mock, and taunt the PC with comments. It's way easier than events (condition it on a score <0), is more universal, and has greater roleplay value. If you need to add events, just add more random whipping events or the equivalent.

 

4 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

Very unlikely.  This mod is developed on LE, for which DD NG does not exist, so no DD NG features or functions are used.  It uses DD 5.2 content (which DD NG uses and requires).  I've seen several posts recently about missing/blank MCMs; I've assumed that a recent Skyrim update caused problems for some players on SE/AE.  Since reverting your version of DD NG solved your problem, you might want to report this on that mod's support topic.  There might be a solution that allows you to use its latest version.

 

The best way to describe DD NG is a necessary graft onto DD SE. It works, it provides more features, it's backwards compatible, it improves functionality, and it expands the function of the DD modules. DD NG is the future of DD, and its active authors are good people. You should reach out - you might get ideas. 

Edited February 2, 2025 by SkyAddiction
Grammar

[wren888]

14 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

Very unlikely.  This mod is developed on LE, for which DD NG does not exist, so no DD NG features or functions are used.  It uses DD 5.2 content (which DD NG uses and requires).  I've seen several posts recently about missing/blank MCMs; I've assumed that a recent Skyrim update caused problems for some players on SE/AE.  Since reverting your version of DD NG solved your problem, you might want to report this on that mod's support topic.  There might be a solution that allows you to use its latest version.

Oh, gosh.

9 hours ago, SkyAddiction said:

The best way to describe DD NG is a necessary graft onto DD SE. It works, it provides more features, it's backwards compatible, it improves functionality, and it expands the function of the DD modules. DD NG is the future of DD, and its active authors are good people. You should reach out - you might get ideas. 

Yes, currently in the process of switching over from Skyrim LE to GOG AE v1.6.1179, I found the only way to get DD [SE] [AE] [VR] 5.2 to work is to install DD NG 3.7 and deactivate the former's esp it installs automatically, which is Devious Devices patch SE. esp. And unlike on STEAM, one cannot revert to an earlier version of Skyrim on GOG. I need to work with what's available now, 1.6.1179. Hopefully a patch or workaround or something will become available between SLTR and DD NG. I'd like to enjoy playing Submissive Lola again. As I'm still working on getting the basic mods of Skyrim AE working harmoniously, I'm not in a position to offer much at this point, but obviously I'll be paying close attention to posts on both the DD NG forum and this one.

Edited February 2, 2025 by wren888

[CaptainJ03]

46 minutes ago, wren888 said:

Hopefully a patch or workaround or something will become available between SLTR and DD NG. I'd like to enjoy playing Submissive Lola again.

not sure what you're on about - it just works.

 

17 hours ago, lordbor said:

It seems that the mod is not compatible with the latest version of DD NG 3.9

don't use beta versions from others sources then. The version here on LL is 0.3.7 and it works fine (as you stated yourself)

[Hex Bolt]

9 hours ago, SkyAddiction said:

The easiest way to handle this, and I have a deeply vested interest in seeing this work out, is through dialogue.

 

Have the owner denigrate, mock, and taunt the PC with comments. It's way easier than events (condition it on a score <0), is more universal, and has greater roleplay value.

My thought was to equip devices in town ("city bondage") with added inconvenient restrictions such as no sprinting, no spell casting, and no use of workstations (detecting workstation use is easy, but I haven't looked into interrupting it).  It's simpler than adding new events, and it gives Lola strong motivation to behave better.

 

10 hours ago, SkyAddiction said:

DD NG is the future of DD, and its active authors are good people. You should reach out - you might get ideas.

Yes, Kimy's plan for DD is to eventually merge as much as possible from NG into DD 5.3 (or 6.0), but I don't think much can be done at this point until NG has more time to mature.  I've had good conversations with some of those involved in the work, particularly when there's a request for integration with SS++ or SLTR.  However, because most devices interfere with normal gameplay, they aren't a major part of this mod.  It's more about the interaction with the owner, dialog, scenes, sex, whipping, tasks, and events.

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, wren888 said:

Hopefully a patch or workaround or something will become available between SLTR and DD NG.

SLTR does not use any DD NG specific content, and DD NG really shouldn't be doing anything that would break another mod's MCM.  In the unlikely case that it is, that would be DD NG's responsibility to fix, not the mods that it broke.  If you report the problems you're seeing, someone over there might be able to figure what happened.

 

40 minutes ago, CaptainJ03 said:

don't use beta versions from others sources then.

Good advice.

[Talesien]

19 hours ago, lordbor said:

Is it not compatible with DD NG? For some reason, if I turn on DD NG, then Lola does not appear in the MCM menu. And if I try to re-save, it causes the game to crash. But if you run the mods separately, then everything is fine.  

Addition: It seems that the mod is not compatible with the latest version of DD NG 3.9. I rolled back to DD NG 3.7 AND EVERYTHING WORKED.

I kinda doubt there is a direct correlation, aside from the usual SkyUI shenanigans. I'm using DD NG 0.39b2 (+ some experimental extensions) without any MCM problems. (Of course I also use Menu Maid II, which might help with that, hard to say, but not unlikely.)

[SkyAddiction]

7 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

My thought was to equip devices in town ("city bondage") with added inconvenient restrictions such as no sprinting, no spell casting, and no use of workstations (detecting workstation use is easy, but I haven't looked into interrupting it).  It's simpler than adding new events, and it gives Lola strong motivation to behave better.

 

I'd love that too. Basically, anything you add is going to make rebellious RP better.

[wren888]

7 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

SLTR does not use any DD NG specific content, and DD NG really shouldn't be doing anything that would break another mod's MCM.

Well that's good news.

7 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

In the unlikely case that it is, that would be DD NG's responsibility to fix, not the mods that it broke.

Of course. The earlier work should have precedence.

7 hours ago, Hex Bolt said:

If you report the problems you're seeing, someone over there might be able to figure what happened.

When I finish getting everything I want installed and operating smoothly, and I start playing, I'll be sure to if I see anything wrong.

[SkyAddiction]

I run SLTR and DD NG on AE, and everything works as it should.