Modders: How do you find the time to enjoy your mod?

[MyNameIsnt]

I'm in the process of creating a short-mid adult quest for Oldrim and while everything is working, I find that the majority of my time is spent fixing bugs and making the quest play nicely to the point where I don't even really care about the content of the mod.

 

I set out to make this quest with the intention of eventually releasing it on LoversLab but the idea of constantly providing bug-fixes post-release is a daunting task and I end up reconsidering finishing the mod. I constantly battle with the creation kit to make everything work the way I want it to and I end up feeling unsatisfied with the project.

 

How do you manage to develop, play-test, patch, and still enjoy the mods you create?

[Seijin8]

8 minutes ago, MyNameIsnt said:

I'm in the process of creating a short-mid adult quest for Oldrim and while everything is working, I find that the majority of my time is spent fixing bugs and making the quest play nicely to the point where I don't even really care about the content of the mod.

 

I set out to make this quest with the intention of eventually releasing it on LoversLab but the idea of constantly providing bug-fixes post-release is a daunting task and I end up reconsidering finishing the mod. I constantly battle with the creation kit to make everything work the way I want it to and I end up feeling unsatisfied with the project.

 

How do you manage to develop, play-test, patch, and still enjoy the mods you create?

Speaking only from my own experience, what you are going through is perfectly normal in the early stages of a mod.  And the middle stages... and fuck it, most of the end-stages as well.  However ...!! Once you get through that.

 

Nah, it never fuckin ends.  And the part of your brain that wanted to tweak things and make shit will forever want to fix all the things.

 

As far as the "release it to the public thing"... um... release it in an as-is state under a different account and then walk the fuck away.

[MadMansGun]

37 minutes ago, MyNameIsnt said:

How do you manage to develop, play-test, patch, and still enjoy the mods you create?

easy: we don't

[rb813]

Quality post. As someone who has dabbled in programming, the thought of making this kind of stuff brings to mind the old proverb: “The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.” There have been many times when I had an idea for a game or a mod, thought about how much time it would take to make such a thing myself, and then thought, "welp, it sure would be nice if someone else made that." Because if I did it myself, then eventually it might exist, but I would most likely no longer be able to enjoy or benefit from its existence.

 

So I would say, to follow through on a project like this, you have to be either selfless enough that you want the thing to exist purely for the benefit of others, or else you're just so obsessively passionate about the concept that you just can't stand to live in a world where it doesn't exist (even if you know that you probably won't be able to get any enjoyment out of it by the time the dust clears).

[Yinkle]

Like madmansgun says we don't. But I have to say that when things work there is a great sense of satisfaction that comes along with it.

[Seijin8]

1 minute ago, rb813 said:

welp, it sure would be nice if someone else made that

Since you are waxing philosophical, I will pull on this thread a bit.

 

I find modding overall to be an exercise in paradox.

 

And while I personally hate that "I hope someone does it" mindset, I also completely understand and almost agree with it for all the reasons you mentioned.

 

But when someone does come along and do it... it often isn't done well, or to the standards I would set for myself, or doesn't take things into account that I think it should, or (fill in the blank), so I end up tweaking it, and then integrating those tweaks into other mod bundles/merges/patches.

 

And then the author comes along and changes things to be better-ish... but the way they do it breaks all of my adjustments.  So I'm left with either a highly customized version of someone else's vision of how something should be that is now entirely on me because the creator has gone down a different path... or I scrap what I was doing and start over with their new version hoping this won't happen again (it will).

 

... Ultimately, I make my own, maybe salvaging parts of someone else's work when a thing looks too tedious to comprehend, or when parts of it function as desired while the rest can be left aside.

 

I console myself with the idea that the skills I'm developing by doing it this way will be useful on Elder Scrolls VI, or Starfield, or whatever...

 

But honestly, if I were interested in great time utilization, I wouldn't be playing -- let alone modding -- video games at all.

[Wolfstorm321]

I tried to learn how to make quests for Skyrim, but the process requires knowledge of programming languages. One interesting case, which happened several weeks ago, was when I tried to code one of my followers for the civil war. The idea would be for the follower to wander to a camp, then turn him into a enemy. He would stay essential, but after defeated he would travel to another camp, and then another camp (if defeated again), and so on, until the end of the civil war. After that, he would become a follower again.

 

The process was very tangled, due to issues with the code fragments, which were absurdly difficult to understand (for those who are not programmers), and after four days trying to make it work, I gave up.

 

But not only this idea was dumped. Several quests I wanted to create, involving my followers, were dumped as well. I found it was much better (and faster) to just write a story in a blog, than write it for a quest. In that way, I started to make short stories for my blogs (which were initially only for images). For the civil war, I can use disposable esps, with staged battles.

 

Another fact which prompted me in this direction, was that I would only receive a handful of endorsements, for any quest mod I would release, whereas over-hyped reddit Yoshi's Island, full of bugs and missing textures, and with a story ripped-off from Star Wars, would have 1000x more endorsements. Skyrim players just dont want good ideas for quests, they want 82729392 vampire armors and thats it. No need to lose my time with something so difficulty, just to see it collecting dust, when I can just roleplay it with the help of wordpress.

 

So, answering your question: thats how I find time to enjoy my mods, by doing only what is essential for my gameplay.

[rb813]

44 minutes ago, Seijin8 said:

... Ultimately, I make my own, maybe salvaging parts of someone else's work when a thing looks too tedious to comprehend, or when parts of it function as desired while the rest can be left aside.

Yeah, I think we have pretty similar mindsets, as far as recognizing that the value of modding is having full and total control over how it comes out. The difference is in how much work we're willing to invest to reach that outcome.

 

I'm mainly on this site for The Sims, which already has a ton of great mods, enough that I can just go along with what's already out there for the most part and not be too dissatisfied. There are some ideas for things I'd like to change, but I don't want it badly enough that it's worth the trouble of figuring out how to do it. The only time I've ever tweaked someone else's mod in The Sims was going into the XMLs and changing a simple numeral value of how much something cost. The tweaks I've made to other games have generally been along the lines of just adding images or dialogue in VNs. Simple stuff, stuff that you don't have to endlessly playtest to make sure it's working. There was one non-mod game project that I spent a whole lot of time on, and by the end, I felt like the vast majority of time was spent on playtesting. In the early stages, I would add a crop of new features, and then after it was all done, I would playtest and find that adjusting one thing in one area caused something else to break even though it seemed completely unrelated (and then fixing the thing that broke often caused something else to break). After enough examples of that, I started to feel like I had to do a whole battery of playtests after every minor adjustment, which really made it harder to find the motivation to make any minor adjustments that weren't absolutely essential. So now the game works, but in a form that you could never expect people to pay money for. (And I oversaturated myself on it so much in the playtesting, that I don't have much urge to play it anymore myself.)

 

And now, every time I think about another game idea that seems like it might be fun, I can't help but think about how much work I put into that one (all seemingly for nothing), not to mention all the other game ideas that I spent enough time on to get to a rudimentary playtesting phase, and then thought, "this isn't fun and I have no idea how to fix it." I have a number of ideas that I think seem really great -- in theory -- but I just can't find the motivation to actually work on them.

 

Maybe you feel like you're just wasting your time, but sometimes it's just nice to be passionate about something, even if it doesn't mean anything.

[Surverx]

I make mods because i want them for my own ?

So i am playing my own mods all the time.

... and so i find new features that i want to implement.

 

I strongly beleave that if the modder loves his own mod (and uses it) it is a good mod.

[dagobaking]

On 3/6/2020 at 8:46 AM, MyNameIsnt said:

How do you manage to develop, play-test, patch, and still enjoy the mods you create?

That is reserved for a future life.

[KoolHndLuke]

Trying to find something that doesn't require a masters to work on or is something that hardly anyone else considered is what I look to do in modding- or else everyone will compare your shit to everyone else's mods of a similar nature. Which is why I stay the fuck away from making companion mods for Skyrim- of which their are thousands already. A good way to learn, though. Mod for yourself and then release it sometime when you feel like having a day in the sun. 

[Pfiffy]

I guess we all started modding because we felt, that something was missing. For me it was that there was no full clothing replacer for Sevenbase as it came out. It was satisfying for a moment when I was done... But then I wanted more... 

Then SE came out and I missed a lot of the old mods, so I started porting them....

I learned more, so I could do more and so i find more things that I can learn.. or I have to learn...

  

  

[murf]

I like tearing peoples mods apart and seeing how they made shit work. I've been dabbling in programming since hitting the turbo button meant your 6mhz XP now rocketed along at OMFG 12mhz.... JFC feel that POWER!!! lol

 

I've made mods for myself since Doom. I've recently been trying to animate for FO4. I'm disabled, don't work, anything to pass the time. I can "almost" make mods do whatever i need to in my own Skyrim and FO4.

 

Every time I think about actually releasing a mod to the public I look at the support threads for a few popular mods here on LL. Most mod makers list out a page of requirements and options that make their mod run... noobs drop the mod, and 40 - 200 other shiny mods into their data folders all at once and then come say "your mod broke my 200 hour plus save game". After 3 days of convincing them, you get uber noob to post a load order... doesn't have most requirements that were listed, you finally get that sorted and BOOM they don't even have a script extender loaded... and sometimes if they do have the script extender.... from the wrong damn game LOL

 

You can bet your ass that IF ever I do decide to go public with any "real" mods I will probably get banned for saying RTFM a billion times instead of hand holding all of the noobs. You will never win a "participation" trophy from me just for showing up lol

 

Anyway, I mod and enjoy playing most of my mods. Kudos to all the mod writers brave enough to support their work on a public forum. I can only hope to be that brave some day

 

 

[Seijin8]

1 hour ago, murf said:

Every time I think about actually releasing a mod to the public I look at the support threads for a few popular mods here on LL.

Amen to that.

[DocClox]

The one I wrote that I did get to play (and that I still do play) is the Slaver's Spellbook. Mainly because, at heart, it's a collection of tools to make it easier and more immersive to do the things I was doing anyway when I played.

 

Anything that has any sort of story... you're going to spend most of your time debugging this package condition, or that dialogue fragment and if you ever do allow yourself time to actually play the game, you probably won't want to run your mod, because you're trying to relax and that's work now.

[steelpanther24]

On 3/6/2020 at 12:43 PM, rb813 said:

“The one who plants trees, knowing that he will never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life.”

I am totally going to use this on my supervisor who just killed my proposal/project to bring VR to my organization. 

 

However, to the OP,  for my one public mod, I found that the positive feedback was really really really worth it.    The only thing I regret is the corner cutting just to get the thing finished.    As others have said, I did it to fill a gap in my own game and while I hear every misspoken word or incorrect language (I wrote all the dialog and the short name for Vladimir is NOT Dima), I still very much enjoy the mod.

[Carabosse]

On 3/6/2020 at 4:46 PM, MyNameIsnt said:

How do you manage to develop, play-test, patch, and still enjoy the mods you create?

 

Sheer bloody mindedness.

[RohZima]

The short answer is; you don't. 

 

But it's not necessarily a terrible thing if you enjoy creating. 

 

If you want to play, you will have to be more economical with your time, you can't afford to spend hours just ambling around aimlessly, so decide what you want to do and do it. Same with other games you want to try out. 

 

That's just life getting more complex with more conflicting demands on your time etc.

[Surverx]

On 3/8/2020 at 11:36 AM, murf said:

"You will never win a "participation" trophy from me just for showing up..."

Well... I am still in the phase that i give a "participation" trophy to EVERYONE that is just showing up ?

[Pfiffy]

18 minutes ago, Surverx said:

Well... I am still in the phase that i give a "participation" trophy to EVERYONE that is just showing up ?

I always have been in the phase that I give a "participation" trophy to everyone that is just NOT showing up.... 

Is this an 'antiparticipation' throphy in this case? 

[MadMansGun]

On 3/8/2020 at 3:36 AM, murf said:

You can bet your ass that IF ever I do decide to go public with any "real" mods I will probably get banned for saying RTFM a billion times instead of hand holding all of the noobs. You will never win a "participation" trophy from me just for showing up lol

the trick is to make a list of all known problems & solutions and then copy paste them as needed.......Eg:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtXtIivRRKQ

 

[murf]

1 hour ago, MadMansGun said:

the trick is to make a list of all known problems & solutions and then copy paste them as needed.......Eg:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtXtIivRRKQ

 

nice one lol

[huanrenfeng]

I managed to find some time to enjoy my mod.

 

The thing is, you need to rest from your busy modding task, and play your mod in a player's way of thinking.

 

Modding takes time and efforts, that's true. And modders need to find a balance between "Making mods" and "Playing mods".

 

To play your own mod is important. Not because of bug fix, but because of the playing experience you give to the player.

 

TBH that's a new level for modding.

 

 

Levels for modding imo:

 

1. Learning scripts

2. write your first script and get your script running

3. ( The hardest part ) Try to make whatever you want and be crushed by the troublesome

4. You finally feel okay about what you can do and what you can not do. And modding freely what you want to make.

5. (Another hard part) Play your mod. And, in the most cases, you'll find that your mod is missing something.

 

if you are in the 5th level, then you are thinking like an artist.

 

Mod is art. 

[Ankahet]

It is very difficult. Doing anything in CK takes forever, and usually doesnt work without some a lot of tom-dickery involved. I think part of what makes it unenjoyable, is the fact that the CK and engine are so outdated it is just an atrocious amount of work to get anything done, and correctly at that.

[huanrenfeng]

6 hours ago, Ankahet said:

It is very difficult. Doing anything in CK takes forever, and usually doesnt work without some a lot of tom-dickery involved. I think part of what makes it unenjoyable, is the fact that the CK and engine are so outdated it is just an atrocious amount of work to get anything done, and correctly at that.

I just tried CK64 ( for SSE ), wow it's cool with the fix! very fast to run. Maybe you want to check it out!