Bad Dog's Horse Race

[Dovah_San]

I don't know if it will be useful/helpful but I share it in case 

 

source : Winkout

[ASlySpyDuo]

On 2/14/2020 at 3:04 AM, Bad Dog said:

I love the zebra upthread but I don't actually know anything about body paints. Are they PC-only or can you put them on NPCs? And how do you make them available?

Coming a bit late but since I've been fooling around with RM overlays lately, I think I can answer your questions.

 

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Are they PC-only or can you put them on NPCs?

You kind of can - either by using the cosmetic option of EFF, with standalone EFF cosmetic menu and I think The Manipulator here at LL had option for limited racemenu on NPCs too.

If you meant NPCs you make in CK, then that's a no unless you want to give them unique body textures each with the overlays pre-blended on them.

 

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And how do you make them available?

You make an script like this for example:

Scriptname SharkOverlays extends RaceMenuBase

Event OnWarpaintRequest()
	AddWarPaint("Shark Stripes Neck", "Actors\\Overlays\\Shark\\Shark Stripes Neck M.dds")
EndEvent

Event OnBodyPaintRequest()
	AddBodyPaint("Shark Stripes Body Male", "Actors\\Overlays\\Shark\\Shark Stripes Body Male.dds")
	AddBodyPaint("Shark Stripes Body Female", "Actors\\Overlays\\Shark\\Shark Stripes Body Female.dds")
EndEvent

Event OnHandPaintRequest()
	AddHandPaint("Shark Whites Hand Female", "Actors\\Overlays\\Shark\\Shark Whites Hand Female.dds")
EndEvent

Event OnFeetPaintRequest()
	AddFeetPaint("Shark Stripes Feet", "Actors\\Overlays\\Shark\\Shark Stripes Feet.dds")
EndEvent

Event OnFacePaintRequest()
	AddFacePaint("Shark Stripes Neck", "Actors\\Overlays\\Shark\\Shark Stripes Neck.dds")
EndEvent

Then you attach that script into quest so that it actually runs. The racemenu modpage section "making a plugin" has step-by-step how to do it, though I doubt you need that much hand holding.

 

As for the overlays itself, you make them the say way as you make facetints basically - except you don't use black as alpha channel. Instead you need to use a proper alpha and save it as DXT5. The actual area the overlay covers should be gray too instead of white.

 

For texture size, 4k is optimal, 2k is alright, anything less than that looks terrible.

[rifted]

Looking at those hoof hands examples i think that its important that there is a slant where the hair meets the hoof AND/or a slant at the end of the hoof so it doesn't look like a short cylinder as in the Catastrophe pick, the ROV picture shows what i like about the slanted hair/hoof divide and most of the others have the slanted hoof edge
 

 

19 hours ago, Blaze69 said:

Name: Equine

Description: "The horse-like Equine race hails from the Ali'kr deserts of Hammerfell, where they dwell in close alliance with the Redguards. Little is know for certain about them, as even their existance is kept a secret and they are an extremely rare sight outside of their homeland. Legend goes they were the ones that taught the Sword-Singers of Yokuda their skills in a time long past."

 

Skill bonuses:

+10 One-Handed

+5 Smithing, Archery, Speechcraft, Heavy Armor, Restoration

 

Racial abilities:

--Equine Endurance

"Your hardness and strength provides extra protection against damage. The discomfort caused by wearing helmets reduces this effect."

+20 armor rating when not wearing a helmet, +8 otherwise.

 

--Stallion's Stride

"Equines sprint 30% faster and use much less stamina while sprinting."

+30% speed and carry weight and +5 stamina rate when sprinting.

as for the racial s that looks good, wording on stallions stride looks a bit odd though looks like you get 30% speed and 30% carry weight all the time then +5 stamina while sprinting maybe "+30% sprint speed, carry weight and +5 stamina rate when sprinting."

back on hoofs attached image for reference where ive edited the hands for example purposes
Green 1 has slant hoof and transition G2 has slanted transition and straight edged hoof G3 has a straighter transition and slanted hoof
Red 1 slanted hoof and transition R2 slanted transition straight edged hoof R3 has straight transition slanted hoof
Blue 1 straight hoof and slanted transition B2 has straight transition and hoof  B3 has slanted transition and slanted hoof
personally im liking 1s and 3s

[Blaze69]

2 hours ago, rifted said:

as for the racial s that looks good, wording on stallions stride looks a bit odd though looks like you get 30% speed and 30% carry weight all the time then +5 stamina while sprinting maybe "+30% sprint speed, carry weight and +5 stamina rate when sprinting."

Fair enough. Still, the actual ingame description is the one shown quoted in the second line of each spell "entry", the one below those with the bold numbers is just a small explanation of the actual effect so people can get a grasp of what it does code-wise without the need to fire up xEdit and check it there.

 

I could add it to the description too if people would prefer that for some reason, though, in which case I'll make sure to reword it as you suggest.

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back on hoofs attached image for reference where ive edited the hands for example purposes [...]

Huh, you did go all-in on this I see, lol. Well, if this turns out to be of help to Bad Dog, kudos for that.

 

Anyway, thinking about it, seems to me that the whole "hand" shtick (grasping stuff, feeling around, all that jazz) is heavily reliant on the fact that human fingertips have a smooth curve; said curve can be approximated somewhat with a slanted surface (while at the same time keeping the hardness and sharpness required for the hoof-y look), but not with a flat cylindrical one at the end of the finger, so maybe that's why the straight tips look kinda like weird pasted-on thimbles instead of actual tips of a biological hand/finger.

 

So that would mean at least the tip would have to be slanted, and then the transition could be either straight or slanted as well. Which in turn means 1s or 3s from your pics would be the best options...

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personally im liking 1s and 3s

...so I fully agree with you on this.

[Bad Dog]

5 hours ago, Blaze69 said:

Anyway, thinking about it, seems to me that the whole "hand" shtick (grasping stuff, feeling around, all that jazz) is heavily reliant on the fact that human fingertips have a smooth curve; said curve can be approximated somewhat with a slanted surface (while at the same time keeping the hardness and sharpness required for the hoof-y look), but not with a flat cylindrical one at the end of the finger, so maybe that's why the straight tips look kinda like weird pasted-on thimbles instead of actual tips of a biological hand/finger.

 

I'm loving how people are getting so into horses. 

 

I think those are good points about how to make the hoof-fingertips look right. The Catastrophe person has them very blocky and they look clumsy. Of course there's also a whole thing about how the horses have a hard time manipulating small objects and have to get the cat to do it for them.

 

Maybe our horses should have a lower stealth level? Because hooves.

[Blaze69]

15 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

I'm loving how people are getting so into horses. 

They just have some kind of charm that was completely unexpected, lol. Think I already mentioned that fact.

 

It doesn't help that I love it when anthros have distinctive non-human traits while still keeping the required humanity anatomy-wise. For example, there's only so much you can do with hands because at the very least they must have opposable thumbs and finger-y things or else they just can't function in a "human" environment (I think I've seen a joke comic about what would happen if anthros had 100% feral paws for hands and it wasn't fun for them, lol ) but stuff like pads, retractable (or fixed) claws or "hooved fingers" as in this case go a long way in distinguishing them from "retextured humans".

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Maybe our horses should have a lower stealth level? Because hooves.

I guess it could make sense, but none of the vanilla races has any debuffs nor do most race overhauls add them either; also you can sneak effectively in vanilla wearing boots that are as clunky/noisy as hooves would be (or more) even if your Sneak skill ain't that high, so I'm not sure it would be a good idea.

[Bad Dog]

2 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

you can sneak effectively in vanilla wearing boots that are as clunky/noisy as hooves

But there is a sneak debuff for heavy armor, isn't there? Hooves would be like that. Kaidan has a line where he says, "If you need to be really quiet... better leave me behind."

 

NPC file is up! There's a small herd near the Bleakwind Basin giant camp. Horses can be found there or in Whiterun near the Gildergreen, or in the evening hanging out in the Bannered Mare or with the Companions. They've made friends with the giants so if you pick up a giant contract don't execute it when they're around or they'll get pissed with you. You can hire most of them, or use a follower mod to get them to follow you.

[ASlySpyDuo]

7 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

also you can sneak effectively in vanilla wearing boots that are as clunky/noisy as hooves would be (or more) even if your Sneak skill ain't that high, so I'm not sure it would be a good idea.

To be fair, you can sneak perfectly with anything in any setup as long as you don't have a mod that nerfs/removes muffle because that spell is completely and utterly busted. It almost completely nullifies any and all movement sound you would make even at low illusion which is the main factor that makes sneaking at level 1 difficult. The muffle enchantment is even better since it's at 100% magnitude, no matter the soulgem used, and always active so if you have boots with those, you don't make movement noise, period.

 

 

Anyway yea, horses are cool and the head mesh is very good and very disctinctive from other races available. I have some stuff planned for them that isn't dollar store zebras too.

 

Though the main criticism I have for them at their current state is that the body texture isn't exactly fitting, or it could be my mind telling me that since I've seen it in cellans and bats already. Mostly the neck area though, but if you are going to dabble with overlays like appaloosa spots, "socks" (goes into hands too for them) etc. for them they could/should use plainer body textures.

[Blaze69]

2 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

But there is a sneak debuff for heavy armor, isn't there? Hooves would be like that.

After checking UESP, seems like the only factor taken into account for the sneaking formula is the weight of all the worn items, with technically no distinction between clothes/light armor/heavy armor. Of course since heavy armor weighs more (duh) it makes you more likely to be heard, so there could be a point there. Then again it also means the debuff from wearing clunky boots alone (which I'd say is the closest equivalent to "built-in" hooves we can find in vanilla) would be negligible compared to the effect of the rest of the set or most notably the torso armor, so this can go both ways.

 

I'm not sure how to add a debuff that makes you more likely to be heard, though (as opposed to Muffle which makes you less likely). Can the game even apply a "negative muffle"?

[Blaze69]

10 minutes ago, ASlySpyDuo said:

I have some stuff planned for them that isn't dollar store zebras too.

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Though the main criticism I have for them at their current state is that the body texture isn't exactly fitting, or it could be my mind telling me that since I've seen it in cellans and bats already. Mostly the neck area though, but if you are going to dabble with overlays like appaloosa spots, "socks" (goes into hands too for them) etc. for them they could/should use plainer body textures.

I have to agree here. That texture set is great on the otters and pretty alright-ish on the bats considering they are still technically an "extra" on the main Birds race mod and all, but for horses it just doesn't work that well, at least IMO.

 

The overlays thing is a pretty good idea to allow much more customization without having to bake a specific pattern onto the base textures (except for maybe zebras, and overlays would probably still work wonders to make those if done right) and could be certainly worth looking into if it's an option, but that would probably need a new (plain) base texture in the first place.

[Bad Dog]

I'm happy to consider an improved texture, but I'm not really sure what I should be looking for. Whiter bellies isn't really a horse thing. Hand/feet socks are easy, but minor and then they all have to have the socks, unless they're on an overlay in which case as Blaze says, the base texture has to stay plain. I could go for a finer fur texture in diffuse and normal, but you hit the pixel limit pretty quickly. Ideas?

 

Got the schlong issues sorted:

 

Spoiler

LOL horses are supposed to be hung, right? That's size 4.

 

Here's size 1:

Maybe a little more reasonable.

 

[CFU]

Idea for the scholong:
people talk about length for the phrase "hung like a horse". Even smaller breeds like mini horses or donkeys (being smaller than the average full heigh horse) would still be pretty long. Maybe the bigger variation could be in thickness more so than length? Now I'm not sure if that's a thing that can even be done on the race level, but there's always SOS grower for that

[Blaze69]

30 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

I'm happy to consider an improved texture, but I'm not really sure what I should be looking for.

...I'll admit you got me there. I know the Cellan set doesn't really do it for me, but I don't know what I want, exactly.

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Whiter bellies isn't really a horse thing.

Perhaps, but it's always good to have the option, and for example the pics by lizet I posted a page ago have them and it looks pretty good IMO. They could always be added with an overlay, though I'm not sure if such a subtle fade can be done with overlays or it would need to be baked into the base texture itself.

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Hand/feet socks are easy, but minor and then they all have to have the socks, unless they're on an overlay in which case as Blaze says, the base texture has to stay plain.

Yeah, the idea would be to do them as overlays. This would allow to choose their color (the pics had them mostly in lighter colors than "normal" skin, but it could also be done with darker ones) and also prevent issues like "black" not actually looking black (as it happens with the fox feet or hands, for example) since RM overlays don't seem to be as affected by skin tints and shaders as base textures themselves would be.

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I could go for a finer fur texture in diffuse and normal, but you hit the pixel limit pretty quickly. Ideas?

I would have to search around in case I find any reference whose skin/fur design I like and that looks like it could work as a reference for texture creation (i.e. something that could be replicated on a Skyrim character texture, not necessarily copy-pasting the reference itself as part of the texture, lol).

 

In the meantime, wild and random thought: take a detailed but featureless human skin texture like Fair Skin (which is pretty good indeed and also happens to be free to use) and whatever is the equivalent for males. Mask the nipples and genitals, desaturate/tone-shift the rest to a neutral gray/dark white similar to the current one, and then try adding very short fur detail to the textures. Would keep the original detail while also adding the fur bit so it doesn't actually just look like a human body with paint... maybe?

 

As I said, just a random thought so chances are it won't be worth the effort or whatever, though.

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Got the schlong issues sorted:

Apart from the, huh, size itself (which I guess is mostly a matter of tweaking the node scale values in the plugin and maybe the weight paints themselves a bit), it looks good to me.

[Blaze69]

14 minutes ago, CFU said:

Idea for the scholong:
people talk about length for the phrase "hung like a horse". Even smaller breeds like mini horses or donkeys (being smaller than the average full heigh horse) would still be pretty long. Maybe the bigger variation could be in thickness more so than length? Now I'm not sure if that's a thing that can even be done on the race level, but there's always SOS grower for that

RaceMenu (actually XPMSE to be precise) has some sliders in the Genitals tab that allow you to control the "length" value for several SOS bones, without having to increase the size itself, so the idea itself is feasible.

 

Don't think the base SOS scaling system itself actually includes these parameters, though, so it may only be doable manually for the player by tinkering around with the RM sliders.

[Guest]

On 2/20/2020 at 8:32 AM, Dovah_San said:

I don't know if it will be useful/helpful but I share it in case 

 

source : Winkout

 

[ASlySpyDuo]

2 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

I'm happy to consider an improved texture, but I'm not really sure what I should be looking for.

I'd start with this neck area here:

Lighter bellies are good, I like them, but I think the light area extends too far along the neck or stops a bit too suddenly there, forming a very visible border. Making that area either not extend as far and/or making it blend smoother would make it better for horses, I reckon.

 

Finer diffuse and normal would do wonders too I think, considering horse coat isn't that thick generally and the current one does give illusion of longer hair than what I'd imagine your average horse having. And yes, I know there are breeds with thicker coats.

 

Kritta's Realistic Primitive Horse Breeds might be a good place to look for what a good looking horse coat would look like too, texture wise.

[Blaze69]

7 minutes ago, ASlySpyDuo said:

Finer diffuse and normal would do wonders too I think, considering horse coat isn't that thick generally and the current one does give illusion of longer hair than what I'd imagine your average horse having. And yes, I know there are breeds with thicker coats.

Exactly. I think you managed to put into words what I couldn't myself when I made my last post, lol.

 

The suggestion of using a human texture as a base and then adding fine fur detail to it was because of that, the current textures make their fur look too long/thick for a horse. The fact that most human textures are pretty detailed (or at least FS is) and most of that detail could be kept even after adding the fur is a nice bonus.

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Kritta's Realistic Primitive Horse Breeds might be a good place to look for what a good looking horse coat would look like too, texture wise.

Huh. Didn't know Kritta made a horse retexture, but it looks as good as I would expect it to coming from her, lol. Yeah, that could be a good reference for it as well.

[Guest]

hey, stupid question. How do I get the zebra stripes?

[Blaze69]

4 minutes ago, RussianPrince said:

hey, stupid question. How do I get the zebra stripes?

This mod doesn't really have any zebra-related content yet; not sure when or if Bad Dog plans to add any such thing to the file.

 

That pic was made using Sly's Shark Overlays file (which, as the name implies, is meant for use on the sharks but also works on other races as shown in the "zebra" image).

[Guest]

pkay sorry for double and tripe posting, i like this a lot so

 

@Bad Dog and @Blaze69

 

is it possible to make this into a Unique Player file?

 

maybe a secondary race that uses different textures for a zebra? those overlays can just be colorized and pasted right over the existing body texture. I already made a white tiger texture for Bad Dog's Tiger Khajiit, I don't have any problem making zebra textures for this.

I got some other ideas, including making the tail a bit thicker.

! Notice ! I turned lydia into a horse since all she's good for is hauling my shit, +500 to carry capacity ahahaha

 

[Blaze69]

20 minutes ago, RussianPrince said:

is it possible to make this into a Unique Player file?

Not sure what you mean here. Do you want to play as a vanilla race but look like a horse or something? Otherwise I don't understand what would be the point there.

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maybe a secondary race that uses different textures for a zebra?

That was one of the suggestions, yes. If we opt for separate/specific zebra textures, since swapping textures around for the same race is a pain, I suggested making a separate zebra (sub)race that uses those textures so the "main" race can still be used for, huh, normal horses instead. Also since horses and zebras are not the same species, they could have slighty different backstories and racial stats/buffs/abilities.

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those overlays can just be colorized and pasted right over the existing body texture.

Eh, as mentioned in the previous page, zebra stripes are very unique and distinctive and not the same as tiger stripes or just "generic" stripes, so I'd say if we go ahead and create a specific zebra texture it would be better to make it as close to a real zebra pattern as possible. Otherwise as far as I can see there wouldn't really be a point in baking the current stripes overlay onto the main texture because the overlays exist already.

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I already made a white tiger texture for Bad Dog's Tiger Khajiit, I don't have any problem making zebra textures for this.

I guess you can do it if you want and post it for anyone to use if you feel like it, but it would ultimately be up to Bad Dog on whether it would be included on the main file or not.

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I got some other ideas, including making the tail a bit thicker.

Same as above, it would be up to BD so you'd have to either discuss that with him first or simply do it yourself and post it and then wait until he decides on whether to use it for the main mod file or not.

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! Notice ! I turned lydia into a horse since all she's good for is hauling my shit, +500 to carry capacity ahahaha

lol, figured that would happen eventually. Also not really a downgrade for her as far as looks are concerned.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Blaze69 said:

something

Hey, I made a youtube video showcasing the facial expressions and mouth movements. Safe to say they're better than anything vanilla! Good job @Bad Dog!!!

 

The eyes are a bit over reflective, hopefully that gets fixed.

 

 

[Bad Dog]

Tail could be thicker, but thinner at the base.

 

I actually think the shark strips look pretty good as zebra stripes. They aren't realistic but they're generic enough so they trigger 'zebra' in my perception. I think the white tiger stripes are less successful because they're more particular to tigers.

 

I guess after all this talk I might have to put a proper zebra skin on them and see how it looks.

 

KK's horses look good but I'm betting that once put on a human shape they'll look just as rough as what I have now. I'll go play with real horse skins.

[Bad Dog]

Hoodie schlongs are up! Four levels of arousal.

 

Schlongs are all in one download, two ESPs. For an ordinary unsheathed SOS schlong, activate BDHorseSOS and not the others. In this mode you'll get no extra script activity. For sheathing horse schlongs, activate BDHorseHoodie and BadDogSchlongCore. You can run both and choose between them at run time.

[MadMansGun]

personally i like the textures in these horse mods:

http://www.slofslair.co.uk/mods/81

 

http://www.slofslair.co.uk/uploads/image/image/741/skyrimredroan.jpg

http://www.slofslair.co.uk/uploads/image/image/742/skyrimroanpaint.jpg

http://www.slofslair.co.uk/uploads/image/image/745/skyrimzorsebay.jpg