Bad Dog's Horse Race

[Rockat]

1 hour ago, amtraker said:

Is this a known bug or did i install something wrong?

 

I've had the schlong keep flickering and spam "un-equipped" so probably.

[amtraker]

21 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

I've heard people report it but I don't see it and don't know what's causing it. Does it happen if you strip? Maybe post a log.

 

It happens when i strip or use a revealing piece of armor. I've tried reinstalling XPMSE, restarting SOS and reinstalling among other things. Here's my log: https://pastebin.com/6TJCdSzL

If I knew how to export a load order from MO2 I'd add that too

[Rockat]

2 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

I've heard people report it but I don't see it and don't know what's causing it. Does it happen if you strip? Maybe post a log.

 

It happens right after character creation (I never try a new race mid game) with revealing clothes on, and removing them made no difference, nor did removing then re-adding the schlong. I'll add the logs soon.

Edit: my game is refusing to create logs regardless of settings

[Ryokentaru]

So far, I really like this mod. Honestly it looks better than I thought it would. My only issue as of now is that the actor height seems off or something. When walking on flat terrain, the hooves clip almost completely into the ground, you can barely see the top of either one

 

Also, I know it's an alpha, things will change, maybe I should have waited, but I'm personally a fan of mottled horse dicks over a uniform color, so I edited the texture for that classic black with pink splotches look

 

Warning: Lots of gayness inside

Spoiler

 

If anyone wants the same, just download and install.

Mottled Horsecock.rar

[Bad Dog]

Actuallly, now that I think about it, this horse cock isn't a Hoodies schlong so it doesn't have the scripts. I have no idea why it should be flickering. I'll look at your log later. 

 

There's  a bit of a problem with the hooves clipping through the ground. If you run the mod on its own, they don't, they're normal feet. BUT if you run it with YA and the digitigrade addon, then they will. YA replaces the vanilla skeleton, assuming that every race will be a digi race. The hooves don't actually look bad with the digi skeleton but it's not necessary and they don't have the nodes that tell NIOverride to lift the whole body up. 

 

Not sure what the best fix is. Switching the YA digi addon to use its own skeleton is more modular, but it's a PITA and YA is a whole-skyrim transformation. How modular does it have to be? Switching the horses to use their own skeleton would work but seems like overkill and would cause problems when people use the mod on its own, along with the latest XPMSE, and they update that mod every 45 minutes. 

1 hour ago, Ryokentaru said:

 

Warning: Lots of gayness inside

You say that like it's a bad thing. I'll check this out later. 

[Blaze69]

6 hours ago, Ryokentaru said:

Warning: Lots of gayness inside

I was going to say "I'm pretty sure a single horse dude with his dong out doesn't qualify as lots of gayness", but then I looked at the rest of the picture. Can confirm, lots of gayness. Not that it's a bad thing, though. Also I wouldn't mind having a straight/bi version of that texture replacer TBH

 

Also I have to say if you crop the pic to the horse's upperbody and apply a "cell-shading" filter to it, I would believe it's straight out of one of those graphic novel with anthros or something, lol. It's probably the outfit doing most of the work, but I guess the fact that the head design doesn't clash with it either says something about its quality. Not that I expected any less from BD and I haven't actually tried them out ingame yet, but so far the pics I've seen look better than I thought it would.

4 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

Not sure what the best fix is. Switching the YA digi addon to use its own skeleton is more modular, but it's a PITA and YA is a whole-skyrim transformation. How modular does it have to be? Switching the horses to use their own skeleton would work but seems like overkill and would cause problems when people use the mod on its own, along with the latest XPMSE, and they update that mod every 45 minutes.

Make a simple "YA Digi patch for Horses" that adds the required NiOverride transform data to the hooves so they work with the digi skeleton, maybe?

[Ryokentaru]

4 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

There's  a bit of a problem with the hooves clipping through the ground. If you run the mod on its own, they don't, they're normal feet. BUT if you run it with YA and the digitigrade addon, then they will. YA replaces the vanilla skeleton, assuming that every race will be a digi race. The hooves don't actually look bad with the digi skeleton but it's not necessary and they don't have the nodes that tell NIOverride to lift the whole body up. 

 

Not sure what the best fix is. Switching the YA digi addon to use its own skeleton is more modular, but it's a PITA and YA is a whole-skyrim transformation. How modular does it have to be? Switching the horses to use their own skeleton would work but seems like overkill and would cause problems when people use the mod on its own, along with the latest XPMSE, and they update that mod every 45 minutes.

 

I mean, I know it's probably a PITA, but couldn't you just do what you've been doing and have a digi patch like your other races? I realize if you're a perfectionist you'll have to edit the model to make sure it's absolutely perfect (you do have to shrink the calves slightly in Racemenu to make it look like their foot isn't broken at the connecting joint) but it's worked well so far.

 

Also, I didn't realize the foot nodes dictate the height to NIOvveride, I always assumed the skeleton did that.

 

themoreyouknow.jpg

 

Lastly, just to throw my opinion out there, I'd advocate for having the full 4-stage unsheathing schlong when you get around to it, rather than just fully sheathed and complete boner. Firstly because it adds parity with all your other sheathed dicks, but also because I really enjoy watching furries walk around with half chubs spilling from their sheath (I love eye candy, if the screenshot I posted didn't make that obvious) but ultimately that does mean like twice the work for you, and after all the great content you've given us over the years, I don't think anyone would bat an eye if you were just like "Fuck it, I don't feel like working on that."

[Ryokentaru]

37 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

Also I wouldn't mind having a straight/bi version of that texture replacer TBH

Straight's not usually my thing, but if you're serious I can try and whip something up. What I have right now is all the signs replaced, all the banners, and all the hold shields in the vanilla game. I also have paintings strewn throughout the world, but that does require another mod to actually implement.

 

I also have all the books replaced, but fuck if I'm doing that again. Over 400 images and a short story for each of them, took me over a month of working on that project almost every day, and I still have to go back and revise them because there's typos everywhere since I got sick of doing it like halfway through and was kinda rushing them, but I'd already committed.

 

Anyways, maybe not the best place to ask, but since I'm on the subject: The reason I never released what I have is because I just grabbed all the artwork from e621. Nothing is paywalled content or anything, but I also didn't ask any of the artists for explicit permission to use their art in a Skyrim mod, and I remember reading about that causing issues with that old Tojo's Dragons mod I believe, so I just made it for personal use and didn't distribute it. Since you and Bad Dog are prominent mod authors, what's your guys' take on that? Right thing to do, or would it be totally okay to release?

[Raydric]

I was testing the horse mod and body paints in racemenu.

And then try to create a new character
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Orc head paint and part of Shark stripes from ASlySpyDuo.

[Bad Dog]

I actually spent way too long on a sheathed cock for the horses. I like the base model but it's giving me fits--wouldn't show up on the character, seams wouldn't fit, etc etc. It'll happen eventually.

[Blaze69]

1 hour ago, Ryokentaru said:

Also, I didn't realize the foot nodes dictate the height to NIOvveride, I always assumed the skeleton did that.

It's not that foot nodes dictate the height, it's just that it's what was designated as the convention for making high heels and similar stuff.

 

The thing about high heels is that in order to avoid feet crushing (because there's a limited amount of space between the ankle and the ground), you need to make the foot/shoe mesh go below the actual ground in the base nif and then lift the whole character using a NiOverride transform that moves the root skeleton node upwards to compensate. NiOverride transforms can actually be applied in any nif, you just need to add a specific string to the nif data and that's it; but makes sense to apply the transforms in the feet/shoe nifs because A) the transform should only apply when those are worn and B) without the transform, the feet/shoes will clip badly through the ground.

 

The digi skeleton uses basically the same mechanic as "normal" NiOverride High Heels do, so by convention the transforms are applied on the feet/paw/hooves (?) nif.

1 hour ago, Ryokentaru said:

Straight's not usually my thing, but if you're serious I can try and whip something up. What I have right now is all the signs replaced, all the banners, and all the hold shields in the vanilla game. I also have paintings strewn throughout the world, but that does require another mod to actually implement.

Eh, I was half joking. If you actually did have straight/bi stuff done or were planning to do so of your own volition, I wouldn't mind checking it out, but I'm not that interested to specifically request you do it.

 

I do like using Vale's YA clutter retextures to better integrate YA into the world while at the same time getting a bit of eyecandy, but there's a difference between that and "yiff, yiff everywhere!" as it seems to be the case here and I wouldn't really use the latter outside of just checking it out once for shits and giggles.

Quote

Anyways, maybe not the best place to ask, but since I'm on the subject: The reason I never released what I have is because I just grabbed all the artwork from e621. Nothing is paywalled content or anything, but I also didn't ask any of the artists for explicit permission to use their art in a Skyrim mod, and I remember reading about that causing issues with that old Tojo's Dragons mod I believe, so I just made it for personal use and didn't distribute it. Since you and Bad Dog are prominent mod authors, what's your guys' take on that? Right thing to do, or would it be totally okay to release?

I'm not sure what to say. Rule of thumb says make sure permissions allow for it before doing anything with anybody else's assets/art.

 

AFAIK E6 is legit and respected in the sense that they uphold "do not post" requests from authors and also people don't seem to post (pirate) paywalled Patreon-only stuff or anything like that in there, so I assume authors are alright with their art being posted if it remains there; but there's a difference between it being posted on E6 and it being used on mods or whatever, and as you said there's precedent of a Skyrim mod getting in trouble for unauthorized use of artwork.

 

So, "maximum CYA-ing" answer would be: check if the authors of the artwork you used are alright with you posting the file. If we get a bit laxer, then the answer would be: make sure to give credit to all the original authors without exception, and be ready to remove some content or take the whole mod down altogether if any of them complain and request their stuff to be taken down.

 

Note that this is just me talking out of my ass/sharing my $0.02 , so don't take this for gospel.

[Ryokentaru]

18 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

Stuff

 

As far as the signs and stuff go, I was thinking about making a toned down version. Maybe more just tasteful nudes or suggestive imagery instead of outright porn, but the main reason I haven't is because of the distribution conundrum. If it's strictly for personal use, I'd rather just use what I have, but when you and Vale were talking about semi-realistic integration of furry art into Skyrim I did start getting some ideas on things I could do.

 

The main issue with asking every artist is that there's a lot. I was more set on making sure the art fit the theme of whatever I was trying to replace, rather than trying to get as much out of a single artist's gallery as I could. I suppose I could take the crediting route and just be prepared to make adjustments if/when it's called for.

 

I'll think about it some more, maybe compile a list of what I would use and how much work getting permission would be. I do appreciate your input on the matter, it helps to get someone else's perspective sometimes.

[Bad Dog]

It's not an easy issue. "No use without permission" is easy and right but, for example, some of the modders that made the original YA races aren't around to answer their messages anymore. I went ahead and published the mod using their assets, with credit but without permission. (Now all that stuff has been re-created to the point where I think credit is courtesy more than anything, but still.)

 

Maybe if you want to distribute more widely choose a few artists you like and get permission from them, then restrict yourself to their stuff. Who knows, maybe they'd even be willing to make things on purpose for YA.

[ASlySpyDuo]

14 hours ago, Raydric said:

I was testing the horse mod and body paints in racemenu.

Well, now I just feel silly for not thinking of making a zebra. Looks pretty good!

 

 

RE: Art permissions.

 

Don't know if I could call myself a modder but my friend circles include quite a few artists so my (and their) take on art usage: ask for permission. Period. If the artist is deceased, ask the executor/executrix.

 

Yes, it's pain in the ass but art is automatically their intellectual property and unless specified otherwise, asking for permission is always required which is why releasing a texture replacer compiled from images found in booru (aka e621) is a bad, bad idea and a good way to earn artists' ire, especially so since there's plenty of them who don't like their work being in a booru either.

[Raydric]

1 hour ago, ASlySpyDuo said:

Well, now I just feel silly for not thinking of making a zebra. Looks pretty good!

 

 

RE: Art permissions.

 

Don't know if I could call myself a modder.

You are more than a professional photographer you also make good paintings.

You could also create a new page  (as I told the user Valehyena)

Body paints extension?

I dont know.

[CFU]

Feedback on the race:

 

Is there going to be anything more done for the eyes? There's a bit of a seam visible from certain direct angles and points to Bad Dog for using what looks like actual horse eyes, but my furry skyrim build is so modded the high res furs/paints make the comparitavely low-res eyes stand out. 

Could I suggest compatibility with regular eyes, or allowing them to share the same pool? Because I think it'd be a bit easier if the race could share resources and allow use of those pretty high-res regular eye mods.

 

Also, how would it look if the ankles/hooves could scale appropriately with body weight? At high values, it really does look a bit too thin. Is there a way to make it scale with the body? Or maybe just enlarge the thing entirely? large hooves would look better than small ones, if nothing else.

[Kuroyami]

On 2/11/2020 at 5:11 PM, Bad Dog said:

I actually spent way too long on a sheathed cock for the horses. I like the base model but it's giving me fits--wouldn't show up on the character, seams wouldn't fit, etc etc. It'll happen eventually.

Not sure how it might fit in with the possible sheathing, but what about having those mottled textures as a separate addon? Also, possibly as a different addon, either perhaps giving this race an uncut option, or possibly something like, freckles, so it keeps the equine look(mostly the medial ring, the look of the balls, etc), and is still uncut.

 

As for females, I could see a custom body done for them, possibly something like the otter race?

 

And I'm seeing this flicker/unequipping problem too. Much as I've looked through, though it is of note that I really have no idea what to look for, I can't find anything that seems wrong with the Armor or AA entries, the meshes, etc. 

 

5 hours ago, CFU said:

Could I suggest compatibility with regular eyes, or allowing them to share the same pool? Because I think it'd be a bit easier if the race could share resources and allow use of those pretty high-res regular eye mods.

That might be possible, but it could be an issue of position. At most, some of the vanilla eye options could be given custom meshes that work with this race, and are mapped to vanilla textures(which replaced textures would effect). Maybe a patch could be made for some other mods, but that would be up to Bad Dog.

 

 

[Bad Dog]

5 hours ago, CFU said:

Is there going to be anything more done for the eyes? There's a bit of a seam visible from certain direct angles and points to Bad Dog for using what looks like actual horse eyes, but my furry skyrim build is so modded the high res furs/paints make the comparitavely low-res eyes stand out. 

Could I suggest compatibility with regular eyes, or allowing them to share the same pool?

NITL. (Not in this lifetime.) With all these races I have to decide whether to live with vanilla eye placement and all the related limitations, or do specific eyes for the race. Much of the issue has to do with chargen morphs, e.g. giving a range of eye sizes on the bats. I gave the horses horse-specific eyes (mostly because I wanted functional eyelashes) and backing out that decision now would be hard.

 

Also I seem to have misplaced them so that even though the head is in a vanilla position the eyes aren't. Helmets with eye holes aren't going to work for you.

 

There's no actual seam around the eyes so I'm not sure what you're seeing. Pics or better description plz.

 

What there is with the eyes is sucky reflections. There is magic associated with getting eye reflections to work right and I don't know anyone but @PaulGreen who has figured it out.

 

5 hours ago, CFU said:

Also, how would it look if the ankles/hooves could scale appropriately with body weight? At high values, it really does look a bit too thin. Is there a way to make it scale with the body?

Not really. I'm stuck with the ankle seam vanilla skyrim gives me. I've upsized the male foot bone a bit and added fur so they have a weightier appearance. I'm thinking to use the current hooves for the females, where a more delicate look is, I think, fine.

 

16 minutes ago, Kuroyami said:

Not sure how it might fit in with the possible sheathing, but what about having those mottled textures as a separate addon?

Or steal the texture and make it part of the base mod, if @Ryokentaru is amenable. I haven't checked it out in game, but the mottled schlong seems right to me.

 

17 minutes ago, Kuroyami said:

perhaps giving this race an uncut option

Not really sure what you're looking for. An uncut anthro schlong? I am planning a sheathing horse schlong. I have the sheathed mesh all set up and I'm happy with it--just have to get it to show up right in game.

 

I don't know what I'd do for a female custom body. Any ideas?

 

I looked at the log @amtraker posted and couldn't figure out what's doing it. I didn't see any reports from my scripts, which isn't surprising because it's not a hoodie schlong so my scripts shouldn't be running. I couldn't see anything else that seemed trapped in a loop.

 

 

[Kuroyami]

5 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

Or steal the texture and make it part of the base mod, if @Ryokentaru is amenable. I haven't checked it out in game, but the mottled schlong seems right to me.

If by that you mean replacing the existing texture, well, I'd prefer the variety, and I'm sure others might as well. Most art of horses seem to have mostly the two basic looks, between solid, and the mottled texture. So texture-wise, those two variants would good, doubly so since they already exist.

5 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

Not really sure what you're looking for. An uncut anthro schlong? I am planning a sheathing horse schlong. I have the sheathed mesh all set up and I'm happy with it--just have to get it to show up right in game.

Well, yeah. Either using the uncut assets you've already created, i.e for the Hoodies mod and Yiffy Age, or a change to the horse schlong, to make the tip look more like a human penis, but uncut - as in the image. 

5 minutes ago, Bad Dog said:

I don't know what I'd do for a female custom body. Any ideas?

Not entirely sure about the crotch boobs(mostly since that wouldn't easily fit with most armors, etc), but perhaps at least the pussy could be as close as possible. Something like, black-husky? No idea if this could easily fit in with things like support for UUNP/CBBE, HDT, etc.

[Ryokentaru]

6 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

Or steal the texture and make it part of the base mod, if @Ryokentaru is amenable. I haven't checked it out in game, but the mottled schlong seems right to me.

 

Are you asking if you can just roll the texture edit I posted into the base mod? If so, I have absolutely zero problems with it.

 

That being said, I'm toying with the idea of doing like a half and half (color shift around the medial ring, possibly fade back to black for the head) and see how that turns out. If I decide to do that and post them, feel free to do whatever you want with those too.

[Ryokentaru]

Sorry for double posting again, but I made some more versions of that texture edit. Decided to just go all out since they're relatively easy to make, so there's three more styles: 'Full Mottled', which has splashes of pink from base to tip instead of just starting from the medial ring, 'Half N Half' which quickly fades to pink after the medial ring and runs completely up to the tip, and 'Half N Half Fade' which is the same thing, but turns black again at the head.

 

Full Mottled:

Spoiler

Mottled Horsecock_FULL.rar

 

Half N Half

Spoiler

Mottled Horsecock_HALF-FULL.rar

 

Half N Half Fade

Spoiler

Mottled Horsecock_HALF-FADE.rar

 

Same dealio, either drag and drop or use whatever mod manager suits you. If Bad Dog wants to roll them into his mod, or if someone wants to package them with another edit for this mod etc. knock yourselves out.

[CFU]

Actually, I wouldn't mind if these could be their own individually seperate mods. Give SOS some variety in-game

[CFU]

9 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

There's no actual seam around the eyes

On closer inspection I can't seem to find it again either. Maybe the quality difference was making me see things ,or a lighting effect idk

 

9 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

I've upsized the male foot bone a bit and added fur so they have a weightier appearance.

Like a draft horse? I can see that bit of dimorphism. Big fetlocked hooves for males, thinner arabian-style hooves for females.

[Blaze69]

12 hours ago, Bad Dog said:

NITL. (Not in this lifetime.) With all these races I have to decide whether to live with vanilla eye placement and all the related limitations, or do specific eyes for the race. Much of the issue has to do with chargen morphs, e.g. giving a range of eye sizes on the bats. I gave the horses horse-specific eyes (mostly because I wanted functional eyelashes) and backing out that decision now would be hard.

The alternative would be to make an edited eye mesh for them that keeps the custom shape/placement but maps to either the vanilla human eye UV (which I guess would allow eyelashes but could look weird) or to the beast race one (which may look better/more fitting but would mean removing the lashes).

 

That way you can add all the vanilla/beast eye textures as option without actually having to create or pack any new textures (just a tiny bit of plugin work to create the new eye records and assign them the vanilla TXSTs), and also vanilla eye texture replacers would also work on those options (this is what I did for the sharks, for example).

Quote

Not really. I'm stuck with the ankle seam vanilla skyrim gives me. I've upsized the male foot bone a bit and added fur so they have a weightier appearance. I'm thinking to use the current hooves for the females, where a more delicate look is, I think, fine.

3 hours ago, CFU said:

Like a draft horse? I can see that bit of dimorphism. Big fetlocked hooves for males, thinner arabian-style hooves for females.

Eh, to be honest I think I'd rather mares got draft horse hooves too; I'm not a fan of the "teeny-tiny ankles" effect the current hooves have and I think the extra fur can look much better than the simple skin-to-hoof transition we have now if done right. So I'd suggest doing weightier fluffy draft horse hooves for both, with maybe the current meshes offered as an optional download for anyone that may prefer a slimmer look.

Quote

Not really sure what you're looking for. An uncut anthro schlong? I am planning a sheathing horse schlong. I have the sheathed mesh all set up and I'm happy with it--just have to get it to show up right in game.

I think what Kuro was suggesting going by the ref image was a normal horse dong with a "foreskin"-like thing but still keeping the characteristic tip anatomy under it. Could be wrong, though.

12 hours ago, Kuroyami said:

Not entirely sure about the crotch boobs(mostly since that wouldn't easily fit with most armors, etc),

Udders you mean? Yeah, I don't see that working out at all, at least for "normal" gameplay. A special naked body made specifically for screenshots or something like that could be possible I guess, but definitely not for standard use and I don't think the extra work would be worth it. Plus I don't think they look that good myself either in the first place, but that's more subjective.

Quote

but perhaps at least the pussy could be as close as possible. Something like, black-husky? No idea if this could easily fit in with things like support for UUNP/CBBE, HDT, etc.

TBH that reference image doesn't really give a clear and/or close look at it, and I bet the amount of pics out there with anatomically-correct anthro mares is huuuge so finding one that does shouldn't be a problem, lol (E6 seems to be down at the moment so I can't try myself now, though).

 

But yeah, basically a custom naked body with proper mare bits. If the Cellan body was doable, I don't see why this wouldn't be; whether it will actually look good or not when animated/HDT-enabled is another story, though.

 

[CFU]

For the crotchboobs, can't it it just be on the texture like some of the other multi-boob models for khajiit and such? 
It's not an entirely unrealistic way to do them, since a mare's teats don't really stand out unless producing milk. Not to say they're completely flat usually, but it's hardly like they'll stick out much from the body if you looked from the side