Does Skyrim Have Invisible Memory Caps?

[Jaayden]

Hey guys,

 

So recently I was adding a mod to my Oldrim and when I went to load up the game it said mods where uninstalled which I thought was odd as I didn't uninstall anything.. so then it CTD on load up.... I then went to try to make a new save with the same load order to see the issue in depth and it put me in the default Bethesda intro with the prison cart.... (( I have alternate start installed and properly working )) So I decided to uninstall the mods I just downloaded and loaded it up and it worked fine.... alternate start and logging in was all Gucci. I then installed a different mod and the same issue proceeded... eventually I decided to type showracemenu in console while on the cart and low and behold it seemed only a fraction of my mods where working and none of the racemenu mods or custom races appeared to function properly. Again I uninstalled that mod and it all worked fine... I knew now it couldn't of been a simple confliction between two mods as it happened with two separate mods... What started to bother me was the fact that both mods where around 50Mbs or more in size.... From all my experience in modding I dont really recall an event in where theres such a thing as a memory cap... however this appears to resemble that issue. I do run Loot, Wyrebash and have over 550+ mods working on my save largely in part due to my skilled efforts in merging a couple 100 ESP's into around 10 ESP's. My game doesn't really lag in loading screens or while running around and rarely CTD's is ever which makes me think stability and lack of RAM isn't a problem... yet somehow I cant seem to add anymore mods without it becoming unstable.... Could this be the result of an outdated mod? My computer not having the adequate RAM even though its got 16.... GBs of ram and over 2 Terabytes of memory or could it be something else? Honestly any help is appreciated and if anyone knows any solutions to increase memory or stuff please comment below. I run a lot of CTD fixing mods too like crash fixes and performance mods to deal with the bulk of the potential lag caused by my insane load order... Its just weird honestly I dont remember an issue like this in SSE and I know people who have had 1000s of mods on their Skyrim and it worked fine... but perhaps mine are just too …. taxing. Thanks in an advance for any help anyone could provide and have a great day!

[GenioMaestro]

Skyrim only support 255 plugings. If you add one more the game discard ALL the plugings and start only with Skyrim.esm disabling all the others ESM/ESP files.

Really, the max number is 254 because the slot 255 = FF is reserved for the created items.

But if you use WryreBash you need the slot 254 for the BashedPatch. 

That left you with 253 plugings and is not recomended have more than 250 leaving 3 free slots for test new mods and verify patches before merge it.

[Jaayden]

Thanks yea but someone already helped me, it just turns out there is an invisible cap of 580 active mods. You must set those that you dont use as ghosted through Wyrebash and it works fine, they still are active in the game but hidden in load orders and stuff. I guess its like more or less super advanced modding secrets for people who manage to run over 600+mods and know how to merge 100 or so into a single ESP. Thanks for your help though! Have a wonderful day

[Grey Cloud]

4 hours ago, Jacksonbro said:

it just turns out there is an invisible cap of 580 active mods

Source for this information, please.

[Jaayden]

My experience and people told me that in the Nexus Mod Manager forums and considering once I did what they said, it worked so like yea lol

[Jaayden]

Claim? Bro come on, broaden your horizons, I was asking for help to an issue I was facing, not making assumptions... But whats clear to me is that people on Loverslab dont know half of the problems, people could face in modding Skyrim and as a result seem to respond with aggressive and unprofessional attitudes when faced with a problem they didn't know is possible. Furthermore I am truly questioning if you people even know that merging mods into a single ESP is possible... In the case you dont and perhaps live under a rock here is the link https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/69905 for merging mods. Also for one do you even have close to that mod limit of 580 mods? Because if you dont maybe dont assume, you know what and what isn't possible, because I am starting to think I have more modding knowledge then two senior members of this site. Second off if you want proof look below at that screenshot.... or maybe the one below it, so you can see that ghosting is enabled on Wyrebash and that I have well over 600+ mods functioning without CTDs or problems. Yet I dont have more than 248 visible ESP's in the load order, that's thanks to the ghosting feature in Wyrebash. I do understand that this problem is a result of my very skilled efforts in modding and its understandable that this issue would have such an outlandish fix, as many a normal person would never go past the 255 ESP limit of Skyrim, yet alone reach the insane feat of achieving over 580 mods without any CTD's and just minor texture conflictions occasionally. If ever someone has a similar issue to mine, perhaps recommend them to simply turn on the ghosting feature from Wyrebash by right clicking File and selecting Ghosting.... chances are this will fix the issue and all will be Gucci. But it seems like an issue only ,1% of Skyrim modders face as they push the games to the limit. Thanks again for commenting and have a wonderful day ((Also in my personal opinion I feel the cap depends simply on how many resource heavy the mods you have and so mine just happened to be 580))

 

Further proof too this can be found from this https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/8340938-a-strange-invisible-mod-limit/

[Grey Cloud]

From the the Nexus link provided by the OP.

"Try removing unused .esps from the data folder, like with Wrye Bash's ghost feature. "

Why not just remove them from the data folder? Why is WB needed?

 

Still not anywhere near convinced this is a valid claim. To me, if some sort of limit is there then it will be records or references or some such. An actual number of mods doesn't seem to make any sense when there are several different types of mods.

Then there is 'correlation is not causation' to consider.

[Jaayden]

Ok dude I have no interesting in debating you, you have your opinions I have mine. You where absolutely no help what so ever, so as far as I am concerned you are just a worthless internet troll, who seems to have a need to prove shit to people online through some useless fourm. So continue to talk shit I really dont care mate. Also ,aybe instead of being an asshole like you currently are, offer solutions or help and btw when someone puts a ? like I did in my OP and on the title of this post. It means a question not an opinion or assumption, so please mate learn the English language and its grammatic symbols. But hey I guess I can expect nothing but drama, and useless crap from a guy with the name dontknowdontcare, Honestly ill probably stop using the forums in Loverslab you people seem too inclined to just be dicks to people who clearly want assistance on an issue, instead of helping. I love how in 10 hours I was belittled by two people here and found the solution through the NMM forums helpful team in less than 5, just goes to show where really assistance can be found. 

[Jaayden]

Grey Cloud, 

I mean in some respects your right however I had to use the ghosting feature because like my OP stated I have many ESP's merged into a single ESP and as a result of this I cannot disable mods not currently making up the ESP list, because they provide textures for the merge file. But I do thank you for actually reading my OP and trying to provide legitimate and professional assistance. I assume theres not really any specific cap but more a cap on just how many files the computer must run and each persons comp can be different. Honestly the solution NMM provided worked and everything is fine and I get some people here, not you however assume that's not true but at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter as it does work lol. Furthermore I can also assume that those people have never had over 500 mods installed on their game at one time and before questioning my knowledge or if that's an actual thing, id challenge them to try to get to 600 mods and see the results. Because I am pretty certain sometime through that list youll run into the same glitch as me and youll feel stupid for questioning it. But hey it works and I am going to necro this post as I have no interest in debating people online who have to prove shit to people because they lack in many other regards and got self esteem issues.

[Jaayden]

I get it but honestly mate that wasn't a solution, that seems more like challenging the name of my post and honestly theres no reason to challenge a name of the post. I simply put that name to state the question as its such a hard and broad problem its not something easy to quantify like Grey Face or missing texture on Ysolda. But please take the link that I sent previously into account. So that if people have a similar problem you can provide them with the answer to solve it and they wont have to waste 100s of hours redoing the modlist just to inevitably get the same result. I dont feel attacked or anything, I simply dislike the poor support that is common on Loverslab as people come here to find solutions, to issues that they have likely been dealing with for awhile, its not the place to insult or argue them its the place to help and if you cant then you have no business in the assistance forum. Have a good day mate

[Jaayden]

I am however kind of interested in the cause for it,,,, could it be VRAM of the computer, the capabilities of NMM or do you guys think its just the size of mods and stuff? 

[GenioMaestro]

Go to clarify some things because the problem that Jacksonbro are reporting is a REAL problem in Skyrim.

 

http://wrye-bash.github.io/docs/Wrye Bash General Readme.html#modsAutoGhost

https://web.archive.org/web/20190307225426/https://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1369136-thrashing-thread-1/?hl=+508

 

I simply need make some seach in google and a small test. I go to my DATA folder, search an ESP of 1 kb and copy it 500 times. I start the game, try load my savegame and i get the window showing ALL my plugings are missing, including the DLC's.

Everybody can make the same test. But for make the things more easy, I rename the files and make a RAR.

You simply need extract it, copy 550 ESP's files to the DATA folder of the game and start Skyrim.

Empty ESPs 550.rar

 

Why happend? Seems to be a problem from Oblivion. 

Why the game read ALL the ESP's and not read ONLY the ESP's inside the pluging.txt file? Nobody know.

Some players say is because the CK allow you to select ESP's that are not included inside the pluging.txt and the game make exactly the same reading ALL the ESP's.

 

The problem only show when you make a lot of merges because MergePlugings only merge the ESP's.

When we talk about BSA files we need extract the BSA's and repack the files in one big BSA because the game only load the BSA file when match the name of the ESP. Or we can left it as standalone files whitout repack them. 

In that two cases we can disable the ORIGINAL mods and the coresponding ESP's files, that now are merged in another big ESP, disapear from the DATA folder.

But we have another option: insert the names of the BSA's inside Skyrim.ini in the [Archive] section but in that case we need copy the BSA files manually to the DATA folder.

 

But when we merge mods with standalone files, normally, we left the originals mods enabled because we need each one of that standalone files. In that case, the ORIGINAL esp's remain inside the DATA folder, we simple disable the ESP in the pluging list, and we can get the limit of 580 ESP's.

[Jaayden]

Thank you GenioMaestro you reaffirmed my trust in Loverslab, I am glad theres people like you! Have a wonderful day and yea the fix I've found for it is to use Wyrebash and have it set certain files as Ghosted that way they work but it tricks the games code into allowing all the mods without errors.

[GenioMaestro]

2 hours ago, Jacksonbro said:

the fix I've found for it is to use Wyrebash and have it set certain files as Ghosted that way they work but it tricks the games code into allowing all the mods without errors.

The problem is NOT related to how many mods you can have.

Is related, only and exclusively, to how many ESP's you have in the DATA folder.

 

You can have 700, 1000, 1500, or 3000 mods, all that you want, and the managers (NMM, MO1, MO2, Vortex, ...) and the game works perfectly because not have any exact limit about how many mods can be managed.

The only limit is how many ESP's you have in the DATA folder, no matter if they are enabled or disabled.

 

The ghost feature of WryreBash simply rename the disabled ESP's to .esp.ghost and, in that way, the game not read it. Is a simple trick to solve a problem from the Oblivion times.

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

The problem is NOT related to how many mods you can have.

Is related, only and exclusively, to how many ESP's you have in the DATA folder.

 

Good find.

 

I have about 350 mods, 200 plug-ins and don't do many merges apart from followers. I always remove the esps of the merged mods from my data folder. My reasoning is that if it is not doing anything then it has no need to be in there and if it is not in there then it cannot do anything it should not be doing. It also tidies up the plug-in list in NMM.

[Myst42]

14 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Some players say is because the CK allow you to select ESP's that are not included inside the pluging.txt and the game make exactly the same reading ALL the ESP's.

 

The problem only show when you make a lot of merges because MergePlugings only merge the ESP's.

When we talk about BSA files we need extract the BSA's and repack the files in one big BSA because the game only load the BSA file when match the name of the ESP. Or we can left it as standalone files whitout repack them. 

In that two cases we can disable the ORIGINAL mods and the coresponding ESP's files, that now are merged in another big ESP, disapear from the DATA folder.

But we have another option: insert the names of the BSA's inside Skyrim.ini in the [Archive] section but in that case we need copy the BSA files manually to the DATA folder.

 

But when we merge mods with standalone files, normally, we left the originals mods enabled because we need each one of that standalone files. In that case, the ORIGINAL esp's remain inside the DATA folder, we simple disable the ESP in the pluging list, and we can get the limit of 580 ESP's.

Interesting finding indeed that apparently we cannot keep disabled esp files over the limit.

So that means there's 2 limits on plugin files.

The 255 one is for ACTIVE plugins.

This new 580 limit, doesn't care if active or not, it's just a limit on how many plugins overall exist in the folder, if I'm getting this right.

I dont think this is a problem we could see very often if using Mod Organizer though, since it keeps things outside the virtual installation folder, and unless you purposefully install tons of mods just to keep them disabled, you probably wont see this kind of thing.

 

Only points here I'd like to add some info about, are on keeping original esp files from merged stuff.

Personally, I never do that, if I merge something, the original esp file has to go away. It's unnecessary, reduntant, and a waste of space. The merged plugin (at least the way I do it, with TES5Edit script) is perfectly capable of managing the functions, and containing the records of its progenitors on it's own, that's precisely why you remove or at least disable the originals. So unless you're talking about a patch, which requires its progenitors as master files instead, it's a healthy practice to delete original files from a merge. If you ever need them again, they should be part of the original mod pack anyway.

 

Now BSAs, that's another problem.

The game does need a plugin file to load the files from a BSA, this is especially evident when investigating the high resolution patch IE. The plugin file, is empty, and only used to load the BSA.

I'm not sure, but maybe adding the BSA name to the ini could make up for this function? Probably not, but I have to ask if anyone knows for sure.

Also keep in mind that merging files sometimes requires the new file to carry the exact name of one of the progenitor plugins, or else, some scripts might stop working, especially MCM scripts.

Finally, my take on BSAs when merging things, is either you repack everything into a new one using the name of the final merged plugin, or simply as said before, extract everything and kee it as loose files.

[GenioMaestro]

19 minutes ago, Myst42 said:

Interesting finding indeed that apparently we cannot keep disabled esp files over the limit.

So that means there's 2 limits on plugin files.

The 255 one is for ACTIVE plugins.

This new 580 limit, doesn't care if active or not, it's just a limit on how many plugins overall exist in the folder, if I'm getting this right.

I dont think this is a problem we could see very often if using Mod Organizer though, since it keeps things outside the virtual installation folder, and unless you purposefully install tons of mods just to keep them disabled, you probably wont see this kind of thing.

Yes, you understand it correctlly.

The game have a limit of 255 ACTIVE esp's and when the limit is exceded ALL the plugings are ignored.

But have another limit of 508 about the TOTAL number of esm's/esp's that can have in the DATA folder.

No matter if that esm's/esp's are enabled or disabled. The limit are related ONLY to the total number.

When exed 508 ALL the plugings are ignored.

 

But MO not solve the problem directly.

When MO launch the game create a virtual folder with all the files that already exist in the real DATA folder of the game, normally have Skyrim.esm plus the ESM files of the DLC's and combine it with all the DATA folder inside ALL the active mods.

In result you have a virtual DATA folder with ALL the esm's/esp's that is read by the game.

If the number of esm's/esp's inside that virtual DATA folder exced 508 ALL the plugings are ignored.

The solution in MO is use the hide feature in the Data tab of the left pane.

 

31 minutes ago, Myst42 said:

The game does need a plugin file to load the files from a BSA, this is especially evident when investigating the high resolution patch IE. The plugin file, is empty, and only used to load the BSA.

I'm not sure, but maybe adding the BSA name to the ini could make up for this function? Probably not, but I have to ask if anyone knows for sure.

I can asure you that put the names of the BSA's of the Official HD Resolution Pack inside the [Archive] section of Skyrim.ini allow the game to read it correctly. I make it in my game:

Quote

[Archive]
sResourceArchiveList=Skyrim - Misc.bsa, Skyrim - Shaders.bsa, Skyrim - Textures.bsa, Skyrim - Interface.bsa, Skyrim - Animations.bsa, Skyrim - Meshes.bsa, Skyrim - Sounds.bsa
sResourceArchiveList2=Skyrim - Voices.bsa, Skyrim - VoicesExtra.bsa, HighResTexturePack01.bsa, HighResTexturePack02.bsa, HighResTexturePack03.bsa, Unofficial High Resolution Patch.bsa, Enemy Variations V4 - NPCs - Resources01.bsa, Enemy Variations V4 - NPCs - Resources02.bsa
bInvalidateOlderFiles=1

Inclusive, i put the Unofficial High Resolution Patch.bsa because the ESP is empy.

[Myst42]

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

But MO not solve the problem directly.

Not directly, but it helps. No one in their right mind would enable every single mod they have on the left panel, especially if they have different profiles, just to create a virtual folder that has more than 508 inactive plugins on the right panel. I just tick what I need, and since some mod packs contain compatibility patch plugins for mods I dont have, I keep those inactive on the right panel, but I only have 2 or 3 of those per profile.

But given the nature of this bug, I'm pretty sure if one were to do something as insane as setting up a virtual folder with every single thing they have loaded to the limit, the virtual folder could be just as fucked as a normal installation folder with more files than it can handle, and the bug would happen anyway.

 

2 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

I can asure you that put the names of the BSA's of the Official HD Resolution Pack inside the [Archive] section of Skyrim.ini allow the game to read it correctly. I make it in my game:

Alright then. Will change to that then. I was sick of having to keep empty plugins on my list, consuming those precious slots that could be used for something better.

[GenioMaestro]

1 hour ago, Myst42 said:

No one in their right mind would enable every single mod they have on the left panel

That's not the problem. Something is not being understood correctly. Go talk about exact examples.

 

You want merge two mods that only have standalone files (no BSA) called ModA.esp and ModB.esp

 

You open MergePluging or Tes5Edit and create ModX.esp and now, what you make?

If you disable the ORIGINALS mods the standalone files disapear.

The ORIGINALS mods must be enabled because have the necesary standalone files that need ModX.esp

Logically, you disable ModA.esp and ModB.esp in the pluging list.

But the ORIGINALS mods have ModA.esp and ModB.esp inside it. What you made with it?

 

Maybe you manually delete ModA.esp and ModB.esp? Or move it to another folder?

Maybe you manually copy the standalone files and create a new mod whitout the esp's?

 

That is exactly the problem.

You can not disable the ORIGINALS mod's because have the standalone files.

You can not delete the ORIGINALS esp's because you can need re-made the merge.

You can move it, but is a manual aditional operation, made only by a very small number of players.

Create a new mod is a waste of hard disk space.

 

The normal option is left the ORIGINALS mod's enabled and hide the esp's in MO. Or use ghost in WryreBash.

Because if you not made it the esp's cumulate and cumulate until you get the limit of 508 esp's in DATA.

[Myst42]

16 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

The ORIGINALS mods must be enabled because have the necesary standalone files that need ModX.esp

This is exactly the point I was mentioning earlier, the originals dont need to be present al all. Ever.

17 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

If you disable the ORIGINALS mods the standalone files disapear.

?? Not understanding that. Deleting an esp file has nothing to do with the files it uses, except on specific cases of scripts, but you can always rename the merged file same as the original, and problem solved. Mod's files dont care about their controlling esp file, esp has records and records use files, if the esp changes name or whatever, any record can still use the files as long as the files exist within the install folder or virtual folder.

20 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

Maybe you manually delete ModA.esp and ModB.esp? Or move it to another folder?

Maybe you manually copy the standalone files and create a new mod whitout the esp's?

Merging is a standard process in my experience. Old files just get deleted and that's it. Assets need to be moved or kept where they are, just make sure the files are there, in the install or virtual install folder, and the new esp file will use them, there's no need for old plugins.

21 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

You can not disable the ORIGINALS mod's because have the standalone files.

??? But I do this all the time. Old files are useless, merged files do all their work in one esp.

Or maybe you're referring to people who has literally no idea what they're doing and cant tell a plugin from the loose files it uses and have never manually installed a mod. To them, it might look like disabling a mod, using whatever installer they have, is something that either removes everything or installs everything at once.

24 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

You can not delete the ORIGINALS esp's because you can need re-made the merge.

As said, the need to remake the merge is possible, but that's why most mods can be re-downloaded if you need the originals again, and if you're especially needy of keeping the old files, you can always make backups. I've done so a few times, but keep them on separate folders in case I ever need them.

26 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

 made only by a very small number of players.

Well, now THIS is a real problem. People trying to mod their games and not knowing the first thing about file management can be a problem, and I guess it's less and less the people who actually knows what they're doing. Understanding how a plugin file works and why does it need loose files, and how loose files work depending on wether they're new files or vanilla overwrites is kind of important, even for the average mod user who doesnt want to be an actual modder.

29 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

The normal option is left the ORIGINALS mod's enabled and hide the esp's in MO

Yeah, again, if anyone does this, they're probably doing it wrong. All the merged stuff I ever make has 2 steps: a)Creating the new esp file, and b)Moving the files into a new folder that will contain the packed and combined version of all the merged mods.

File management needs some measure of order. Keeping random unused files in places sounds like a recipe for insanity.

If people is seriously not doing this second step and keeps old files packed separately, installed and active, then yeah, they're at risk of massing up unused esp files.

[Jaayden]

11 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Yes, you understand it correctlly.

The game have a limit of 255 ACTIVE esp's and when the limit is exceded ALL the plugings are ignored.

But have another limit of 508 about the TOTAL number of esm's/esp's that can have in the DATA folder.

No matter if that esm's/esp's are enabled or disabled. The limit are related ONLY to the total number.

When exed 508 ALL the plugings are ignored.

 

But MO not solve the problem directly.

When MO launch the game create a virtual folder with all the files that already exist in the real DATA folder of the game, normally have Skyrim.esm plus the ESM files of the DLC's and combine it with all the DATA folder inside ALL the active mods.

In result you have a virtual DATA folder with ALL the esm's/esp's that is read by the game.

If the number of esm's/esp's inside that virtual DATA folder exced 508 ALL the plugings are ignored.

The solution in MO is use the hide feature in the Data tab of the left pane.

 

I can asure you that put the names of the BSA's of the Official HD Resolution Pack inside the [Archive] section of Skyrim.ini allow the game to read it correctly. I make it in my game:

Inclusive, i put the Unofficial High Resolution Patch.bsa because the ESP is empy.

Hey Genio I agree with you mate, but what's weird was that some plugins / mods did indeed function even though it bugged out... like some of my armor replacers and graphical mods but perhaps since they dont take up an ESP it works.

[GenioMaestro]

16 hours ago, Myst42 said:

a)Creating the new esp file, and b)Moving the files into a new folder that will contain the packed and combined version of all the merged mods.

Well, this is the eternal discusion about use Copy General Assets or not use it.

 

The option Copy General Assets is enabled by default and following the instructions you never can get the limit of 508 ESP's but if you are NOT ussing it, soon or latter, you go to encounter the problem about that limit.

 

Some players recomend have Copy General Assets always active while others players say never use it.

If you use it ot not use it is up to you. Personally, i recomend not use it.

 

-----------

 

But, for start, I am against the use of mergers. I can't understand why hundreds of players waste their time doing merges. From my point of view, merging just overloads the game and slows it down.

You can end up with an unmanageable game that only gives problems and you waste more time solving problems than playing.

 

Why have a merge with 1000 armors? Maybe you can see all those armors in one gameplay?

Why have a lot of quest mods? Maybe you play all the quest from all your mods in one gameplay?

 

I like the variety and installed and removed hundreds of modifications from my game. I have played Sumerset, Vigilant, Bruma and another large number of mods, but none of them exist today on my hard disk. Maybe you like them a lot and maybe you want to have it always installed. I'm in that exact position with Maid II Deception, one of the best mods I've seen, and I always have it in all my installations.

 

But I have never understood why you cannot eliminate half of your modifications.

Everyone can do at home what they want with their game and its modifications.

If your only satisfaction is to have 1000 mods enabled, actives and working all together at once without problems, very good. But, probably, you spend more time merging and solving problems than playing.

Why have 1000 mods if, in fact, you only play it in an exporadic way for a small amount of time?

[Myst42]

2 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

But, for start, I am against the use of mergers. I can't understand why hundreds of players waste their time doing merges. From my point of view, merging just overloads the game and slows it down.

You can end up with an unmanageable game that only gives problems and you waste more time solving problems than playing.

 

Why merge with 1000 armors? Maybe you can see all those armor in one gameplay?

Why have a lot of quest mods? Maybe you play all the quest from all your mods in one gameplay?

Yeah...

I guess that falls into "responsible modding" territoty.

Personally, I dont think I've ever had any problems related to merging stuff. But I mostly do it to mods that do similar things, say Fair Skin comes with an eyebrow pack, then SG eyebrows has a few more but it's a different mod. Then both could be made into a nice pack named "Female Eyebrows", or maybe I dont like the entire Bijin NPC redesign collection, but I really want a few of them, so I installed characters separetely, and then merge one "Bijin Characters" esp. instead of 16 separate files. But anyway, most of what I do, is as you say, to keep mods I absolutely can't live without.

I dont have Maids, but I imagine if there was a whole Maids saga that I enjoyed, and there were 6 Maids esp files that could be merged without script issues, I'd rather have one single Maids pack instead of 6 esps.

Another example is Undeath. Undeath has 1 esp, I seem to recall, but there's Immersive Lichdom, Classical Lichdom, some patches for this and that, and my in-development mod that should come out soon, and that's about 7-8 esp files for you. I'll try to release it as a single file instead. Possibly overwriting Undeath.esp itself, while keeping its files as a requirement.

Also as you say, armors come and go, so maybe even if pple tends to do otherwise, perhaps it's better to merge other stuff instead of armors.

Those could be called "floating mods" if you were to make up a term for it.

 

Anyway... Long story short:

-ESP count on data folder has a limit, even if mods are disabled.

-Merging stuff is fine but it needs to be done responsibly, and removing old esp files is a healthy practice.

-You can get rid of empty ESP files by adding their BSA's names into Skyrim.ini

 

I'd say there are good findings.