The Ancient Profession 2023-11-14

[ecobotstar]

10 hours ago, ruddycray said:

 

 

No, but it would be easy enough to add a toggle for the next release.

 

That would be lovely!

[Derynea]

Don't know if it's been asked before, apologies if so!
Is there any particular reason the player can't freelance solicit (or by arrangement with the skooma dealer) in the Redwater Den in Riften hold?
If not - could i suggest adding it unless its not worth the trouble?

I always liked the vibe down there and it's somewhere to drop in to work occasionally,
and it would honestly be pretty awesome to have it as an underground place to work in riften
for those of us that won't take Benjen's shit and will take pleasure in stiffing him on his precious cut <(￣︶￣)>

Cragslane Cavern could also be a neat location for something like that,
although those sods are sadly hostile on sight, even though the only quest that takes you there (the riften house quest) doesn't require them to be .__.

Having a great time with all the stuff you added for .9! Great work, keep it up!

[ruddycray]

2 hours ago, Derynea said:

Don't know if it's been asked before, apologies if so!
Is there any particular reason the player can't freelance solicit (or by arrangement with the skooma dealer) in the Redwater Den in Riften hold?
If not - could i suggest adding it unless its not worth the trouble?

I always liked the vibe down there and it's somewhere to drop in to work occasionally,
and it would honestly be pretty awesome to have it as an underground place to work in riften
for those of us that won't take Benjen's shit and will take pleasure in stiffing him on his precious cut <(￣︶￣)>

Cragslane Cavern could also be a neat location for something like that,
although those sods are sadly hostile on sight, even though the only quest that takes you there (the riften house quest) doesn't require them to be .__.

Having a great time with all the stuff you added for .9! Great work, keep it up!

 

There is...it's because the den is not a separate location from when you get taken by vampires and put in a cell there, and dungeons are excluded, in part because I didn't want it to be possible to solicit the vampire who holds the key to the cell and have him pay you for sex.

 

But even before release I added an item to my list to make it possible to solicit the people in the little stalls there again. I just had to cut off adding things somewhere to get 0.9 out the door, and it didn't make it.

 

I might revisit the decision to ban dungeons from solicitation, because it was a blunt instrument to deal with the problem, but it seems likely that it would create lots of situations like that, where I'd have to carve out exceptions. This is a (so far) rare case where I have to carve out an exception to the exception. Still, I have wound up making a fair few exceptions as I find places where the freelance stuff feels out of place to me, and in the Redwater vampire situation in particular I could possibly make it a speech check or something instead of banning dungeon solicitation outright.

[Derynea]

51 minutes ago, ruddycray said:

 

There is...it's because the den is not a separate location from when you get taken by vampires and put in a cell there, and dungeons are excluded, in part because I didn't want it to be possible to solicit the vampire who holds the key to the cell and have him pay you for sex.

 

But even before release I added an item to my list to make it possible to solicit the people in the little stalls there again. I just had to cut off adding things somewhere to get 0.9 out the door, and it didn't make it.

 

I might revisit the decision to ban dungeons from solicitation, because it was a blunt instrument to deal with the problem, but it seems likely that it would create lots of situations like that, where I'd have to carve out exceptions. This is a (so far) rare case where I have to carve out an exception to the exception. Still, I have wound up making a fair few exceptions as I find places where the freelance stuff feels out of place to me, and in the Redwater vampire situation in particular I could possibly make it a speech check or something instead of banning dungeon solicitation outright.

Makes sense! I have no idea what the easiest way to do this would be, but i had hoped it would be simple due to how the events in that dungeon work.
As far as i know everyone in the den are passive until the player either;
-attacks someone/pickpockets/casts a calm spell etc, 
-Drinks the special skooma and gets abducted by the master vampire
-lockpicks the iron bar door to get to the master vampire.

Any of those three things happen as far as i've noticed, the passive NPC's all turn hostile and hell breaks loose, as it would in any old inn.
I have no clue wether those circumstances makes it easier or harder for you to add soliciting there though, which is why i had to ask ^^

I remember an oldie LE mod, poorly translated from german, that gave the player a ring that temporarily allied them to the bandit faction.
This would be a bad idea, but what about purchasing or earning such a "golden tablet" from an orc stronghold to freely pass and work in orc hunter camps for example?
I do this little roleplay in my own head when i play, and just add the faction through console, but always thought it might be a cool feature somewhere.
Temporarily flagging factions might be easier than carving out dungeon exceptions? 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Heck if i know, but love 0.9 as it is and can't wait to see what's next!

[ruddycray]

8 minutes ago, Derynea said:

Makes sense! I have no idea what the easiest way to do this would be, but i had hoped it would be simple due to how the events in that dungeon work.
As far as i know everyone in the den are passive until the player either;
-attacks someone/pickpockets/casts a calm spell etc, 
-Drinks the special skooma and gets abducted by the master vampire
-lockpicks the iron bar door to get to the master vampire.

Any of those three things happen as far as i've noticed, the passive NPC's all turn hostile and hell breaks loose, as it would in any old inn.
I have no clue wether those circumstances makes it easier or harder for you to add soliciting there though, which is why i had to ask ^^

I remember an oldie LE mod, poorly translated from german, that gave the player a ring that temporarily allied them to the bandit faction.
This would be a bad idea, but what about purchasing or earning such a "golden tablet" from an orc stronghold to freely pass and work in orc hunter camps for example?
I do this little roleplay in my own head when i play, and just add the faction through console, but always thought it might be a cool feature somewhere.
Temporarily flagging factions might be easier than carving out dungeon exceptions? 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Heck if i know, but love 0.9 as it is and can't wait to see what's next!

 

I don't know that it will be difficult to resolve. It was more of an unintended consequence of a decision, and it just didn't strike me as high enough priority to fix it immediately and delay 0.9 or push something else out of 0.9 to move that to the top of the list.

 

I definitely plan to fix it, though, one way or another.

[xtrange988]

Thanks for the mod, it's really the best one around for this stuff.

 

In the Morthal licence quest the guard send me to prison for killing a lizard  I never met, I think she's intended to follow you at some point but I guess she got killed in the way. That's the only quest that doesn't feel right. Why she would come to the player if she doesn't even know about you or the ghosts. And the "father" never appears in the prison and the ghosts just stand there doing nothing. This is the previous version mind you, but in all other versions the quest didn't work for me.

 

It's possible for the next update to work along with Siarra in Solitude? Maybe some diplomats, merchants and envoys to entertain from time to time in behalf of Erikur? After the Benjen quest.

 

The vampire quest is one of the best but the location feels off. I get you don't want to mess with dungeons or locations but it would make much more sense if they live in the Ratway Vaults, feeding off beggars, addicts and thugs. I'm not aware of any mod or CC content touching the location and it could be just a locked door in the lower part and a little section. 

 

Can we get the two poor girls dressed at some point? Seems out of place with the rest of the game (unless you are playing slavery mods and other stuff).

 

Anyway, thanks again Ruddy

 

[ruddycray]

1 hour ago, xtrange988 said:

Thanks for the mod, it's really the best one around for this stuff.

 

Thank you!

 

Quote

In the Morthal licence quest the guard send me to prison for killing a lizard  I never met, I think she's intended to follow you at some point but I guess she got killed in the way. That's the only quest that doesn't feel right. Why she would come to the player if she doesn't even know about you or the ghosts. And the "father" never appears in the prison and the ghosts just stand there doing nothing. This is the previous version mind you, but in all other versions the quest didn't work for me.

 

I assume you mean Numeeva, since that's the only one whose death should trigger anything like that. She is not intended to follow you and should never leave her home except in one resolution for the quest where she leaves and is immediately removed from the game when leaving - and that's only in 0.9. I'm not sure what could be happening there, but I might need to gather more info from you about that to see if something weird could be happening that I've just never encountered. The quest always works when I test it (and I've tested that one out to the point of almost being sick of it).

 

Quote

It's possible for the next update to work along with Siarra in Solitude? Maybe some diplomats, merchants and envoys to entertain from time to time in behalf of Erikur? After the Benjen quest.

 

That's a possibility, but I can't promise that it will be in the next release. It does make sense together with her attitude during the Solitude license quest, so I do think the idea works.

 

Quote

The vampire quest is one of the best but the location feels off. I get you don't want to mess with dungeons or locations but it would make much more sense if they live in the Ratway Vaults, feeding off beggars, addicts and thugs. I'm not aware of any mod or CC content touching the location and it could be just a locked door in the lower part and a little section.

 

Taking up residence in a place like that feels exceedingly risky for a coven of vampires to me, even in a city like Riften. Most vampire lairs you encounter in the game are in caves of some sort. I might do something down there, because I do want to have other "extra special" jobs for Benjen. The other problem with doing anything down there is that you can't get there without combat. Benjen and his girls were originally in the Ragged Flagon before I released the mod, but I removed them from there because I didn't want it to be necessary to get into a fight to the death to become a prostitute.

 

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Can we get the two poor girls dressed at some point? Seems out of place with the rest of the game (unless you are playing slavery mods and other stuff).

 

I'll consider making it an option, since you're not the only one to ask about it. I am also strongly leaning in the direction of creating a brothel for Benjen to run at some point, and if so it may not feel as out of place to those who think it does if the girls spend almost all of their time there.

Edited November 24, 2021 by ruddycray

[Highborn]

Nice work with the Vanikseth quest! Wasn't expecting that plot twist. lol

 

Btw, I was testing all dialogue options and when I said I couldn't do it anymore, I expected the quest to fail or something, but he asked my character to reconsider it. So I had to accept it anyway if I wanted to complete the quest from my journal. Maybe you could add the possibility of failing the quest.

 

 

Regarding the future of the Temple of Dibella quest, I don't know exactly the plans you have, but I'd like to suggest a bit of lore that Bethesda kinda forgot and I think it could be an interesting way to conciliate the lewd side with the adventurer side, for those who still roleplay as a character that is capable of fighting (and not only a prostitute):

It's the Order of Lily, that serves as protectors of the House of Dibella in Daggerfall, and I think something like that would be nice to have in Markarth as well, so the player could be some sort of holy/cleric/templar warrior devoted to Dibella:

 

"The Order of the Lily (or the Lily Order) is the militant arm of the House of Dibella, known to enforce the divine's will and protect the temple with their lives. They are said to be consumed with the propagation of beauty, giving them the willpower to protect themselves sufficiently." https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Order_of_the_Lily

 

Since you had implemented a magic trainer among Dibella's garden, in order to teach the prostitutes how to protect themselves, I think you might consider this interesting to implement in your expansion. Of course, it doesn't have to be the focus, it could be something just to add flavor. I always thought that after the Sybil quest, the player could have become some sort of "Champion of Dibella" in vanilla, but we only got the agent of Dibella blessing and I always thought it was underwhelming. 

[ruddycray]

12 minutes ago, Highborn said:

Nice work with the Vanikseth quest! Wasn't expecting that plot twist. lol

 

Btw, I was testing all dialogue options and when I said I couldn't do it anymore, I expected the quest to fail or something, but he asked my character to reconsider it. So I had to accept it anyway if I wanted to complete the quest from my journal. Maybe you could add the possibility of failing the quest.

 

 

Regarding the future of the Temple of Dibella quest, I don't know exactly the plans you have, but I'd like to suggest a bit of lore that Bethesda kinda forgot and I think it could be an interesting way to conciliate the lewd side with the adventurer side, for those who still roleplay as a character that is capable of fighting (and not only a prostitute):

  Hide contents

It's the Order of Lily, that serves as protectors of the House of Dibella in Daggerfall, and I think something like that would be nice to have in Markarth as well, so the player could be some sort of holy/cleric/templar warrior devoted to Dibella:

 

"The Order of the Lily (or the Lily Order) is the militant arm of the House of Dibella, known to enforce the divine's will and protect the temple with their lives. They are said to be consumed with the propagation of beauty, giving them the willpower to protect themselves sufficiently." https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Order_of_the_Lily

 

Since you had implemented a magic trainer among Dibella's garden, in order to teach the prostitutes how to protect themselves, I think you might consider this interesting to implement in your expansion. Of course, it doesn't have to be the focus, it could be something just to add flavor. I always thought that after the Sybil quest, the player could have become some sort of "Champion of Dibella" in vanilla, but we only got the agent of Dibella blessing and I always thought it was underwhelming. 

 

Although I'm calling the Vanikseth quest line 100% complete, I really mean that all the quests are there. I will still be making some adjustments to them. Some of those adjustments will be quest failures. As it stands, even in the first quest you can leave the workroom and come back literally 2 years later and still have the experiment succeed. Although I intentionally left that behavior in there for priority reasons, it's not how I really want it to behave.

 

I did come across that item you mentioned when researching lore about the Temple. My ideas about where to go with that are still fairly immature, so I haven't made any firm decisions yet, but I have thought about adding perks that could be beneficial in combat as one of the reasons you might want to join with them.

[raevald]

Excuse me, I have found those two while starting a brand new gameplay, can anyone tell me how to force them to hide/work normally?

SKSE- AE, latest version

SL Framework- AE, 164b

PapyrusUtil- AE, 4.1

USSEP- 4.26a

 

The more worrying one for me is the one about supressable tags.

[Herowynne]

1 hour ago, ruddycray said:

I am also strongly leaning in the direction of creating a brothel for Benjen to run at some point, and if so it may not feel as out of place to those who think it does if the girls spend almost all of their time there.

 

I really like the idea of a brothel for Benjen. The more brothels in Skyrim, the better!

 

As I mentioned in this thread a long time ago, vanilla Elisif has a line saying "You behave as though you are carousing in a house of ill-repute", implying they are common in Skyrim.

[ruddycray]

2 minutes ago, raevald said:

Excuse me, I have found those two while starting a brand new gameplay, can anyone tell me how to force them to hide/work normally?

SKSE- AE, latest version

SL Framework- AE, 164b

PapyrusUtil- AE, 4.1

USSEP- 4.26a

 

The more worrying one for me is the one about supressable tags.

Those things rely on PapyrusUtil so probably something isn't working right there.

 

Have you confirmed that SexLab by itself is working?

 

I have not yet tested with AE but patches are coming frequently right now and so also are possible SKSE breaks.

[raevald]

OK, I'll disable AP and check SexLab itself ASAP.

[raevald]

The problem is with PapyrusUtil.dll, I have installed the AE version from Nexus via Vortex, but...

 

I have it installed in mods folder, on my PC called Vortex Mods. 

 

In said folder, there is PapyrusUtil AE - Scripting Utility Functions-13048-4-1-1637657974\SKSE\Plugins, and in THAT one, PapyrusUtil.dll. 

 

I am lost.

[ruddycray]

4 minutes ago, raevald said:

The problem is with PapyrusUtil.dll, I have installed the AE version from Nexus via Vortex, but...

 

I have it installed in mods folder, on my PC called Vortex Mods. 

 

In said folder, there is PapyrusUtil AE - Scripting Utility Functions-13048-4-1-1637657974\SKSE\Plugins, and in THAT one, PapyrusUtil.dll. 

 

I am lost.

You don't need to install PapyrusUtil separately, at least not for this mod's sake. It's included with SexLab.

[raevald]

So I should uninstall the standalone, 4.1 version?

[ruddycray]

3 minutes ago, raevald said:

So I should uninstall the standalone, 4.1 version?

 

It's worth a try. Not to suggest I don't want to help you, but for the sake of making sure you get optimal support if SexLab isn't working then I'd start in that support thread, and if this mod still doesn't work after that I'd be happy to try to help.

[raevald]

Thank you.

[Derynea]

Just got through a couple of quests,including the final call for the vanikseth questline.
Just had to stop back in to say this is a damn fine mod
Splendid work, Thane of Loverslab ??
 

[Samson Nite]

I am stuck in Markarth Stallion quest. Diebella's lady Jena does not give PC a blessing letter that I need.....

[Highborn]

12 minutes ago, Samson Nite said:

I am stuck in Markarth Stallion quest. Diebella's lady Jena does not give PC a blessing letter that I need.....

Talk with Senna

[Samson Nite]

I talked to Senna too.....Nobody in Dibella's temple give damn about this letter.....

[ruddycray]

2 hours ago, Samson Nite said:

I am stuck in Markarth Stallion quest. Diebella's lady Jena does not give PC a blessing letter that I need.....

 

Not sure where you're stuck. The Stallion quest has nothing to do with the letter other than that you have to finish the license quest before that quest is available.

 

To get the letter for the license you either have to finish Restoring Faith (get Sassa back into the temple), Heart of Dibella (vanilla Sybil quest), or make a 1000 gold donation to the temple.

[NicoleDragoness]

Still enjoying this excellent mod (v0.9) even in my LE environment.

Atm, I had no issue. Only once, after I "did it" and talked with the ghost in morthal,  the argonian wife appeared from nowhere while I was sleeping in the Moorside Inn (it was late!) and started to talk with an "invisible" husband locking the quest. Reloading a previous save and everything went fine. Mysteries of the Most Bugged Game ever created in the Universe.

 

Anyhow, I have a note about Windhelm:

 

Personally, I HATE (deeply and with all my strong feelings) the entire Civil War thing. So, I have some mods to skip almost everything, including the idiotic Season Unending and another one to achieve Hjerim WITHOUT being a Stormcloak.

Thinking I was fine with this, I asked to the Windhelm's Steward about the License and he pointed me to Ulfric because "I joined the Stormocloaks".  WHAT?!?

 

Well, it's not confirmed but it seems that owning Hjerim and obtaining the Housecarl makes the Player a Stormcloak by default.

Maybe I'm wrong but if I'm right this is another nonsense by those brain-damaged, unskilled and idiots Bethesda's programmers.

 

The question is:  if I "cheat" adding the License with AdditemMenu, will it be valid?

[ruddycray]

1 minute ago, NicoleDragoness said:

Still enjoying this excellent mod (v0.9) even in my LE environment.

Atm, I had no issue. Only once, after I "did it" and talked with the ghost in morthal,  the argonian wife appeared from nowhere while I was sleeping in the Moorside Inn (it was late!) and started to talk with an "invisible" husband locking the quest. Reloading a previous save and everything went fine. Mysteries of the Most Bugged Game ever created in the Universe.

 

Anyhow, I have a note about Windhelm:

 

Personally, I HATE (deeply and with all my strong feelings) the entire Civil War thing. So, I have some mods to skip almost everything, including the idiotic Season Unending and another one to achieve Hjerim WITHOUT being a Stormcloak.

Thinking I was fine with this, I asked to the Windhelm's Steward about the License and he pointed me to Ulfric because "I joined the Stormocloaks".  WHAT?!?

 

Well, it's not confirmed but it seems that owning Hjerim and obtaining the Housecarl makes the Player a Stormcloak by default.

Maybe I'm wrong but if I'm right this is another nonsense by those brain-damaged, unskilled and idiots Bethesda's programmers.

 

The question is:  if I "cheat" adding the License with AdditemMenu, will it be valid?

No. Licenses must be added to a special chest so that you don't have to carry it around.

 

Odd about Numeeva appearing in the inn. Not sure I've slept in the inn afterwards so I can see if I can reproduce that (though I kind of doubt it).

 

Not sure about the weirdness you saw with Stormcloaks. Somebody else reported being considered Stormcloak when they hadn't joined before too. I'm going to check it out during my current playtesting.