Devious Followers - Continued

[deviant51]

On 4/29/2020 at 4:40 AM, Lupine00 said:

That's a different problem entirely.

The problem I fixed last night was failure to remove fatigue due to debt payoffs.

 

There seem to be a whole host of issues with unset properties. Which bugs me, because I know I set and tested those properties, but at some point they stopped being set.

However, those things showing up in a release is my fault for not fully testing release installs.

 

The priest dialog not showing up has nothing to do with properties.

The dialog conditions on the (new) owning quest are inappropriate.

It was something I thought about, and even looked at, when I moved the lines, but I clearly didn't check them carefully enough.

Again, if I'd tested that feature, it would have shown up immediately.

 

 

In most cases, it's still better to put out a release that hasn't been tested properly, because you still get more fixes than you get new bugs.

The important parts were tested quite a lot.

If I have to test every change on a different setup, it would hold the releases up for days or weeks.

If people tested and reported on betas, again, these things would be detected prior to release.

Some things did get fixed due to beta bug reports.

 

Given the awful state of modular deals, I was prepared to leave a few things "maybe fixed but not actually tested" to get the deal system fixes out ASAP.

I think that was probably still the right thing to do. Nothing new got broken, but some fixes didn't work.

 

Fatigue not working right is an annoyance, but not a game breaker.

You can just adjust fatigue from the console, or neuter it in the MCM.

 

However, I'll try and make sure it is actually working for 2.12  

 

 

If there's a feature you care about, then you should test the beta and report. That's your chance to make sure you get the fix you're looking for.

I can't seem to find the command or the option in the mcm to lower fatigue. 

buying out of deals also does not lower it for me.

I'm not sure I would be a good beta tester because I have a lot of mods. but thanks for the offer.

 

  

On 4/29/2020 at 3:04 AM, Aldid said:

Does anyone else have problems with Chaos mode? For me it seems to calculate once, then never again. No matter how much I wait or rest, the values stay the same

also have this. 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, deviant51 said:

I can't seem to find the command or the option in the mcm to lower fatigue. 

You didn't copy it correctly:

set _DFFatigue to 0.0

There is a space after the set.

You can set it to other values besides 0 of course.

[Herowynne]

I have been using DF for a while now, and I think it's great.

 

Only just recently, after upgrading to 2.11, I started getting the situation of having to wear a pet suit to see the Jarl, and the Jarl using my player character like a slave. There seems to be a very short cooldown before the scenario repeats.

 

Is this a new feature, or has it always been there and I just didn't notice?

 

This feature makes quest progression quite cumbersome. Is there a way to turn it off or streamline it a bit? Increase the cooldown?

[deviant51]

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

You didn't copy it correctly:

set _DFFatigue to 0.0

There is a space after the set.

You can set it to other values besides 0 of course.

that is very specific and exactly what I did wrong. 

thanks

[Idynian]

So, even if I have a follower and DF is paused, guards will randomly walk up to me and lock me in Slave Handcuffs, and ask me to go to my master. This is to force a devious follower onto you, is this from this mod or Sexlab Survival?

 

The handcuffs are from this one, but I can't find any setting about it. With DF paused you can't actually get out of it, and you'll have a guard stuck to you, wherever you go.

[Lupine00]

36 minutes ago, Herowynne said:

Only just recently, after upgrading to 2.11, I started getting the situation of having to wear a pet suit to see the Jarl, and the Jarl using my player character like a slave. There seems to be a very short cooldown before the scenario repeats.

 

Is this a new feature, or has it always been there and I just didn't notice?

There were no changes in 2.11 that would directly cause this.

 

It's an oldish feature. The repeated firing is because:

(a) you set the event cooldown to be too short, which you can vary in the MCM, or

(b) a bug, or

(c) your Skyrim is broken.

 

If you aren't wearing a collar, it won't fire.

If you don't have low enough willpower, it won't fire.

If the cooldown is in effect, it won't fire.

 

The cooldown defaults to two days, I think, with a note that you may regret reducing it below that.

You can certainly make it longer.

 

If it's breaking any of these rules, something is wrong, either (b) or (c). Probably (c) in that case, as it's not a widely reported problem.

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, Idynian said:

So, even if I have a follower and DF is paused, guards will randomly walk up to me and lock me in Slave Handcuffs, and ask me to go to my master. This is to force a devious follower onto you, is this from this mod or Sexlab Survival?

That should have been fixed. Are you on the latest version?

If you pause DF, you can block this by setting your willpower a bit higher.

[Idynian]

Ah, that should be it, my last update was on april 20th when I reinstalled

[Herowynne]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

There were no changes in 2.11 that would directly cause this.

 

It's an oldish feature. The repeated firing is because:

(a) you set the event cooldown to be too short, which you can vary in the MCM, or

(b) a bug, or

(c) your Skyrim is broken.

 

If you aren't wearing a collar, it won't fire.

If you don't have low enough willpower, it won't fire.

If the cooldown is in effect, it won't fire.

 

The cooldown defaults to two days, I think, with a note that you may regret reducing it below that.

You can certainly make it longer.

Thanks for the explanation. Question: the cool down for this situation is the “Follower event” ?

 

Yes, my character was wearing a collar, and Yes I set the Follower event cooldown to a small value, so mystery solved as to the cause.

 

Is the Jarl visit pet suit the only kind of Follower event? Or are there others? Thanks!

[Lupine00]

34 minutes ago, Herowynne said:

Is the Jarl visit pet suit the only kind of Follower event? Or are there others? Thanks!

There are others. Each depends on you wearing a particular device, and not wearing others.

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, Idynian said:

Ah, that should be it, my last update was on april 20th when I reinstalled

If it's still going on in 2.11, it's in need of more fixing.

I'd forgotten I made changes for this, so didn't test it.

[Idynian]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

If it's still going on in 2.11, it's in need of more fixing.

I'd forgotten I made changes for this, so didn't test it.

Just updated, let some time pass and went out into town, it still triggers and it wont let me pick a master

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Idynian said:

it wont let me pick a master

You can't pick a master while it's paused.

Set your willpower to 5 and it definitely won't trigger.

 

set _DWill to 5.0

[silveredgold]

How can I go about debugging DF problems? I have 2.11 installed, loading after NFF, and it seems to have loaded correctly: the MCM works, adding debt in the Debug screen reflects correctly in the Stats screen, and the correct follower count from NFF shows up in the DF MCM.

 

But if I actually talk to my follower, there's nothing from DF: no dialogue tree, no reaction to sky-high debt, seemingly nothing from DF at all. I've tried to reset DF from the MCM and tried the "Repair Follower" option, still nothing from any followers (vanilla or custom).

 

The odd thing is that I have another save with an existing follower that still has all the Devious dialogue seemingly working.

[SacredDatura]

Was thinking about how gold control might be implemented as a deal or in deal-like stages. (As usual, I'm not sure if this is viable, just spitballing suggestions.)

 

Stage 0: 

• can pay sum in advance for credit
• no inventory gold limit
• debt shown start of day
• credit shown start of day
• can ask about debt/credit amount anytime
• can withdraw certain amount (fixed amount? dependent on daily cost?) of credit per day

(This stage is almost entirely beneficial, should be opt in. You're ceding a bit of financial control to the follower for convenience, but the door you've just opened is not yet fully apparent to you...)

Stage 1:

• some inventory gold limit
• debt shown start of day
• credit shown start of day
• cannot ask about owed amount
• can always ask to hold gold
• cannot withdraw excess credit

(Roughly the current implementation, except that here the follower will still always agree to let you hold some gold. But you have to ask, and the amount is out of your control. If yoked to the deals mechanic, this would be a tier 1 deal suggested by the follower.)

Stage 2:

• some inventory gold limit
• debt shown start of day
• credit not shown start of day
• cannot ask about owed amount
• may not be allowed to hold gold some days
• cannot withdraw excess credit

("All your septim are belong to me" - the terminal stage of financial control. It's not really your money anymore...)

 

Additional random idea: at certain stages, DF could give vague instead of concrete numbers: "you have over two thousand in credit" instead of "you have 2357 in credit".

[Hex Bolt]

I like that idea about not being told precise figures.  That could even be used outside of deals, based on willpower, and rounded unfavorably at the lowest levels.  For example, you have 1900 credit but you're told that it's "at least 1000", so you feel like you're doing worse, but the wording is still truthful.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, Buridan said:

Was thinking about how gold control might be implemented as a deal or in deal-like stages.

I'm not going to change how the core feature is delivered because it would be either extremely hard and time consuming, or require a new-game/clean-save.

It probably should have been a deal, but it isn't. It's ... something else ... on the up-side it doesn't require any special cases for enslavement.

 

I'm not saying gold control can't change, but the question is "what is wrong with it?"

Why is it not working for you now?

 

A massive rework of gold control would immediately back it up behind a zillion other things.

A small change that gets most of what you want might be possible with a few minutes work.

[Lupine00]

12 hours ago, silveredgold said:

But if I actually talk to my follower, there's nothing from DF

Did DF start and give you the KEY introductory line:

"I hope you're not going to cheat me..."

OR

"Are you ready to make some deals?"

 

Did you see a "Click Me", or get the pop-up explaining how DF works?

 

What quest stage is your _DFlow on?

[Ursur1major]

Here's an idea for a new Deal, forgive me if this has already been suggested.

 

A dehumanising deal, the concept being that the player character accepts a place as less than humanoid, as the followers "pet" or "doll" so to speak.

For this to make sense the deal would only be available after the follower starts refering to the player as Slave

 

First Stage is fairly simple: Instead of being refered to as a Slave the character is simply refered to as a pet, the complication is that occasionally the Follower might demand that the player does something simple yet silly, not necessarily humiliating untill the next stage, similarly to the Slut deal.

Second Stage continues on this: The player character has to wear a hood (I believe there is a Rubber hood with open eyes and mouth) to further emphasize that they are now an object, the demands from the follower increase in intensity, and will start taking further liberties in the "handling" of the player character.

Third Stage completes the transformation: The player character now has to wear a rubber suit, (Are there any full bodysuits that are not Rubber in DD?) and depending on how you want to be it could be a similar choice as the Whore Armour with three different armour ratings, or just force a suit with no armour rating, the follower's demands are like divine commands to the player character who does them without thinking.

 

The demands should probably be pretty self contained and simple, something that isn't reliant on location and doesn't require much fiddeling, so a stage 1 demand might be something like "Stick out your tongue" or "Twirl for me" with you being able to accept or take a debt penalty, the event is then described in a text box.

While say a stage 3 deal might be the Follower demanding the player character masturbates, with a text box describing how it's almost like the follower's words bypass the character's brain and take direct control over their body and then a fitting animation plays if applicable, I'd be completely fine with certain events being entirely in text.

Just an example.

 

Edit: just changed a thing that appears to be outdated as of this version of this mod that I had missed because I've not played Skyrim for a few weeks now

[silveredgold]

58 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Did DF start and give you the KEY introductory line:

"I hope you're not going to cheat me..."

OR

"Are you ready to make some deals?"

 

Did you see a "Click Me", or get the pop-up explaining how DF works?

 

What quest stage is your _DFlow on?

Don't get either of those introductory lines, and there's no Click Me dialogue option or MCM option I can find.

 

I can't see any _DFlow in my ShowQuestTargets output. Where exactly do I check that? 

[Hex Bolt]

16 hours ago, silveredgold said:

Don't get either of those introductory lines, and there's no Click Me dialogue option or MCM option I can find.

 

I can't see any _DFlow in my ShowQuestTargets output. Where exactly do I check that? 

It's a global variable:  help _dflow 3

 

Edit:  Bad info.  Serves me right for not reading carefully.  Sorry about that.

[silveredgold]

1 hour ago, silveredgold said:

Don't get either of those introductory lines, and there's no Click Me dialogue option or MCM option I can find.

 

I can't see any _DFlow in my ShowQuestTargets output. Where exactly do I check that? 

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

It's a global variable:  help _dflow 3

Thanks. If I'm reading this right, the quest state is 1.00.

 

_DFlowEnable = 1.00
_DFlowReset = 0.00
_DFlowQueststage = 1.00
_DFlowDiaToggle = 0.00
_DFlowDiaWarning = 0.00

 

EDIT
Solved it! No idea what caused it in the first place, but I uninstalled the mod, new save -> cleaned that save, reinstalled then save/reload and I got the [Click me!] dialogue

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, silveredgold said:

I can't see any _DFlow in my ShowQuestTargets output. Where exactly do I check that? 

In the console getstage _DFlow

 

_DFlow is a quest, not a global variable.

 

For those that like to debug their DF install, checking that quest stage is the most fundamental thing to do.

 

It should be 0 if you have no DF.

It should be between 10 and 99 inclusive, for normal DF operation, without enslavement.

Getting stuck on a value of 1 to 9 inclusive indicates a start-up bug.

 

Values of 100+ are enslavement and values of 200+ are games.

 

If it sticks on 0, it means the follower startup dialog isn't firing. This is a HELLO, so if the dialog fails to merge in your setup, or is blocked by some condition, or HELLOs do not fire, then your follower won't ever become devious and will just be a regular follower.

 

Lozeak decided to use HELLO for this.

I had a follower mod I started on that used polling. Polling is more dependable. HELLO is strange. Sometimes it takes a really long time to fire.

I never changed DF because it works eventually.

 

When the conventional startup fails completely, it's always due to a corrupted quest, broken by a bug, or a merge, or LO, or Skyrim bad luck.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, Ursur1major said:

A dehumanising deal, the concept being that the player character accepts a place as less than humanoid, as the followers "pet" or "doll" so to speak.

The classic gas-mask is the obvious final hood for this.

 

I like the excuse for rubber suits, and sure, a rubber-suit deal, it blocks some other deals, but that is acceptable.

 

I don't know about the actions and such. I don't think we can accept that the deal itself forces compliance, or else willpower has no meaning.

 

However, if you refuse the requests, there could be the usual penalty, and if you comply, there would be resistance damage.

I think the main problem is that it's quite a soft deal if it works like that.

 

It might be special in that the third stage comes with built-in duration extension.

 

Or it could be more interesting if there was some "rubber addiction" mechanic, a bit like the belt denial damage.

 

Or some other thing.

 

I guess we'll see if I can stop wasting all my time posting nonsense on forums and do some work  

[SacredDatura]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I'm not saying gold control can't change, but the question is "what is wrong with it?"

Why is it not working for you now?

I'm not sure if my tone is coming across as trashing your work, but that's really not my intent at all.  I like the concept of gold control a lot, which is why I'd like to see more of it. As implemented, it works fine, but I think there's a lot of potential for it being a multi-stage thing as there are so many different variables that could be played with.