Devious Followers - Continued

[tester86]

I have the greatest follower in the world. She's awesome. She doesn't seem to mind when my spells smack her in the face, or my arrows... plink... right in her back side. Sure, she'll ask me to stop, and do it in the sweetest way possible.

 

Now, if she were devious she might just get mad at me for repeatedly hitting her with a fireball and take my hands away. "There, now I don't have to worry about getting shot by your spells," she says, as she foists an armbinder on me. Or throwing a blindfold on, "since you can't see, you surely won't be shooting me with any more of your arrows." Or a lovely gag, "can't shout me off the mountain if you can't shout. What's that, no, I won't take it off till we're back in town where I'm safe from you. Oh, and you can bet it'll cost you."

 

Is there a way to add something like this, when your follower forcegreets you that you suck, well, make sure your follower is safe?

 

Great mod and glad to see it's still continuing! Thanks Lupine00! 

[Hex Bolt]

6 hours ago, tester86 said:

Is there a way to add something like this, when your follower forcegreets you that you suck, well, make sure your follower is safe?

That would be a great addition.  DEC has a similar feature but it's not well developed (and might be hidden behind the unfinished dialogs toggle), but this would fit so well with a DF.  About a year ago, I asked DEC's author about it and he said something to the effect that he expected that DF would eventually add a friendly fire feature so there was no need for him to work on it further.  I do like the way that DEC's system lets the first few hits slide.  The follower still complains, but you don't get punished immediately.  Each hit adds to the follower's annoyance level, which can decrease over time (or perhaps i's when you do something the follower likes).  When you exceed the annoyance threshold, you're in trouble. 

[Ikwydls]

This seems to conflict with RDO (with the EFF patch for both RDO and DF). May be related to RDO or not but also all DF dialogue options disappear after a while, the quest is running at stage 10 and there's no "stuck scene" dialog either. Also leaving a follower fails (probably because it's the RDO/vanilla part ways dialogue visible and the DF payment dialog is missing).

 

Any chance for RDO compatibility? It adds so much flavor.

[Lupine00]

On 11/27/2019 at 9:41 AM, HexBolt8 said:

On 11/27/2019 at 3:02 AM, tester86 said:

Is there a way to add something like this, when your follower forcegreets you that you suck, well, make sure your follower is safe?

That would be a great addition.  DEC has a similar feature but it's not well developed (and might be hidden behind the unfinished dialogs toggle), but this would fit so well with a DF.  About a year ago, I asked DEC's author about it and he said something to the effect that he expected that DF would eventually add a friendly fire feature so there was no need for him to work on it further.  I do like the way that DEC's system lets the first few hits slide.  The follower still complains, but you don't get punished immediately.  Each hit adds to the follower's annoyance level, which can decrease over time (or perhaps i's when you do something the follower likes).  When you exceed the annoyance threshold, you're in trouble. 

I'm not entirely sure what this request is about.

 

Is it about friendly fire?  (PC hitting the follower(s))?

Or about DF starting games and other annoyance dialogs just as combat starts up?

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, Ikwydls said:

This seems to conflict with RDO (with the EFF patch for both RDO and DF). May be related to RDO or not but also all DF dialogue options disappear after a while, the quest is running at stage 10 and there's no "stuck scene" dialog either. Also leaving a follower fails (probably because it's the RDO/vanilla part ways dialogue visible and the DF payment dialog is missing).

 

Any chance for RDO compatibility? It adds so much flavor.

I'm not sure why there is an issue with RDO.

Problems started with 2.X. Previous to that DF was fine with it.

 

It may have something to do with AFT or EFF integration.

 

I'm going to re-do those very soon now, so that might fix it.

[Lupine00]

Today I cleaned up a bunch of stuff in the device removal dialogs, added the "hardcore mode", and reviewed a bunch of slider settings. I found some were absurdly coarse for no particular reason. Also fixed that bug where you hide values in chaos mode and the MCM breaks. Fixed the $_DF_DAYS bug and tidied up a bunch of messy MCM details. Changed resistance and willpower handling to be Float oriented.

 

The hardcore mode is extremely hardcore.

MCM is disabled apart from Debug, and you can't re-enable it. Even resetting the mod via debug doesn't re-enable it.

It's actually not that hard to turn it off, but you can't do it via the DF MCM, so if you cheat, there's no doubt that you cheated.

[tester86]

10 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I'm not entirely sure what this request is about.

 

Is it about friendly fire?  (PC hitting the follower(s))?

 

Friendly fire. Occasionally, when I smack my follower with a spell, she just takes me aside and kindly asks me to be more careful.  I was thinking a devious follower would be a little more vocal about her displeasure and she would take steps to prevent it from happening again. 

 

"You keep hitting me with your spells. Well, since you can't seem to aim well enough, and I don't want my hair to catch on fire, we'll have to do something about that." Binds hands. "There, now you can't smack me with your spells."

 

"Will you untie me?"

 

"Maybe. When we get back to town and you agree to a new deal. Or, since this is the fifth time I ask you, maybe a few deals." 

 

Or something. 

 

Just friendly fire with DF seems something perfectly attuned for this mod. 

[Lupine00]

34 minutes ago, tester86 said:

Just friendly fire with DF seems something perfectly attuned for this mod. 

Makes sense.

 

Would probably be gated off willpower.

After more than X (default 3) hits in a time span...

Willpower > 7.0, charges player punishment debt.

Willpower <= 7.0, no gold control - enters gold control.

Willpower <= 7.0, demands player makes a new deal, charges deal-value so player gains no debt relief from deal.

Willpower < 5.0, gold control if not already, plus armbinder and lives set to 0.

 

If already enslaved, follower throws tantrum and adds the heavy prisoner chains, demands immediate return to town. 

[Lupine00]

Thinking about a new simple option ... if PC is in devices, and not enslaved, they can ask the follower:

"Help. I'm lost. Can you lead me home?"

 

"Sure, if you make three new deals when we get back."

 

And if PC agrees, you get to fast-travel home (and add debt for the time you were travelling of course).

The deals then commence from the point you arrive home.

[Hex Bolt]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

2 hours ago, tester86 said:

Just friendly fire with DF seems something perfectly attuned for this mod. 

Makes sense.

 

Would probably be gated off willpower.

...

Thank you for considering this feature, Lupine00.  Hopefully this can be configurable too (# of hits and time span).  But I suggest leaving gold control out of the punishments and adding hand binding.  It's natural that gold control is triggered by rising debt or number of deals.  If you can't manage your money, the follower takes over.  But adding it for friendly fire is an odd fit.  (It could still be triggered indirectly by too much debt added from multiple friendly fire punishments). 

 

DEC added a yoke after a few friendly fire hits, which is a bit extreme.  But hand tying for a limited time (or until you return to town, whichever is first) fits the offence, "since you can't control your aim".  If the player wants to get free immediately, talk to the follower to apologize and trade being untied for debt or a deal.  This allows choice; you don't have to stay bound.  That said, the system could tie into follower "mood" which we discussed awhile back.  If the follower is in a foul mood maybe that option isn't available, so you must stay tied a while to learn your lesson.  Mood could also increase or decease punishment severity (hands tied duration, debt amount).  Since mood isn't in DF now, that might be a second-pass thing, I'm just throwing out ideas.  I'd rather see friendly fire sooner than later even if it has to evolve over time, because it's such a nice way to make the follower more naturally and be more devious. 

 

Borrowing another idea from DEC, the script that detects friendly fire also records the type of damage (physical, spell, or shout), which triggers different dialog, e.g., "That shout thing you can do is useful but it keeps hitting me too".  For shouts, it would be fitting to gag the PC rather than bind the hands, again with the option to get free for debt/deals.

[Hex Bolt]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Thinking about a new simple option ... if PC is in devices, and not enslaved, they can ask the follower:

"Help. I'm lost. Can you lead me home?"

I really like the idea.  I know there are times when I'd use it.  I suggest a minor wording change to fit more situations, since the PC might be heavily debuffed but not actually be lost:  "This situation is hopeless.  Can you get me home?"

 

Would this be allowed inside a dungeon?  It'd be particularly useful there, but the player would have to be intelligent about not doing it in a quest-locked one way dungeon. 

 

What would happen if the PC is at or near the deal limit?

[rjn]

The problem with the friendly fire conversation in DEC is that you're obviously in combat when they get hit then combat ends and the planned conversation gets interrupted  (maybe new combat or something else) then your game is broken with your follower force greeting over and over and... (reload a save).  I just uncheck the "follower remembers you shot them" in every game.

[valcon767]

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Thinking about a new simple option ... if PC is in devices, and not enslaved, they can ask the follower:

"Help. I'm lost. Can you lead me home?"

 

i like it and the phrasing from HexBolt8 makes it sound better (to me).

and it could work at 1 new deal if not in dungeon and 3 new deals if in a dungeon. (i do realize some outside areas still count as dungeons)

 

as for the friendly fire i like the concept.  just would prefer to see it be a choice to include gold control rather than luck of the draw.

 

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Makes sense.

 

Would probably be gated off willpower.

After more than X (default 3) hits in a time span...

Willpower = 10.0 verbal warning and  -1 Willpower

Willpower > 7.0, charges player punishment debt. (twice the amount of  deal debt) and -1 Willpower.

Willpower <= 7.0, no gold control - enters gold control.

could make it a choice where the player has to decide between -1 Willpower and gold control or -1 Willpower and the deal option below.

Willpower <= 7.0, demands player makes a new deal, charges deal-value so player gains no debt relief from deal.

Willpower < 5.0, gold control if not already, plus armbinder and lives set to 0.

i would prefer the Willpower be at 4.0 instead of 5.0,  -1 Willpower as well as a player choice in 2 parts,

A.  gold control or 3 new deals plus

B.  armbinder and lives to 0 with a demand to return to town or a Yoke and lives to 0 (without the return to town demand)

 

If already enslaved, follower throws tantrum and adds the heavy prisoner chains, demands immediate return to town. 

this makes it a choice of gold control or other options while it could still happen to try to avoid gold control and just might end up

having that happen as well.

as for the number of hits to cause it to fire i would like to see it be slider controlled (to a limited extant, maybe 2-5).

 

 

edit

hmm there is one other feature of DEC i think could fit here.

toggle on or off

Follower finds devices you missed in container.

a small chance (1-10%  max either fixed or adjustable) the follower finds a device you missed in a container.

when follower finds a device the follower would approach and start a conversation with you, and tells you they found something you missed,

and then puts device on player (Hey let's see how this looks on you), or if player is wearing that type of device gives to player

(Here look i found you a spare since you like wearing that anyway).

 

[Darkwing241]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Thinking about a new simple option ... if PC is in devices, and not enslaved, they can ask the follower:

"Help. I'm lost. Can you lead me home?"

 

"Sure, if you make three new deals when we get back."

 

And if PC agrees, you get to fast-travel home (and add debt for the time you were travelling of course).

The deals then commence from the point you arrive home.

I really like the idea but I don't know about the "three" part.  It seems a little bit overly punitive.  It also doesn't feel that immersive when the DF says "three deals," I guess you could write your way around that with dialogue though.  Still it feels weird to trade 'several agreements' for 'one thing.'

 

I don't personally think it being extra punitive is necessary, you already are kind of paying double with a single deal+wasted travel time.  If you do decide something extra is necessary you could make it so that instead of a random deal, the DF specifically looks to upgrade a tier 1 or 2 deal you already have. 

 

Another option would be to have the DF select from a curated list of deals that are more punishing or more relevant to the circumstances.

 

A final option would to be to step outside the "pay for everything with deals and gold" mindset.  Maybe this is just a straight willpower reducer with accompanying dialogue. 

 

"Well I suppose I can lead on the way home,  I'm glad you are getting used to me being in charge." -x willpower

"You're right things do go much more smoothly when I'm in charge. You just worry about looking pretty, I'll do the thinking" -x willpower

 

Overall this is a great example of how the PC can cede control to the DF.  Maybe this is the kind of behavior that should even be rewarded rather than taxed.  Maybe this is a trade of +lives -willpower so that the player is incentivized to take advantage of the new mechanic.  Then in the long run they end up with low willpower and a bossy follower that starts taking excessively long routes home to run up the PCs debt, or maybe even decides to take her to other locations. 

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, Darkwing241 said:

A final option would to be to step outside the "pay for everything with deals and gold" mindset.  Maybe this is just a straight willpower reducer with accompanying dialogue. 

 

"Well I suppose I can lead on the way home,  I'm glad you are getting used to me being in charge." -x willpower

"You're right things do go much more smoothly when I'm in charge. You just worry about looking pretty, I'll do the thinking" -x willpower

 

Overall this is a great example of how the PC can cede control to the DF.  Maybe this is the kind of behavior that should even be rewarded rather than taxed.  Maybe this is a trade of +lives -willpower so that the player is incentivized to take advantage of the new mechanic.  Then in the long run they end up with low willpower and a bossy follower that starts taking excessively long routes home to run up the PCs debt, or maybe even decides to take her to other locations. 

That's a really interesting idea.  I think I'd prefer a permanent reduction of max willpower though (a slide into being controlled) rather than a temporary willpower decrease. 

 

I actually like both ways, punitive and ceding control.  It seems like there might be room for both, with dialog choice.  Take the penalty, or begin accepting that you're a failure as an adventurer. 

[A Little Kitten]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Thinking about a new simple option ... if PC is in devices, and not enslaved, they can ask the follower:

"Help. I'm lost. Can you lead me home?"

 

"Sure, if you make three new deals when we get back."

 

And if PC agrees, you get to fast-travel home (and add debt for the time you were travelling of course).

The deals then commence from the point you arrive home.

Too harsh, wouldnt ever use it

[valcon767]

3 hours ago, Darkwing241 said:

I really like the idea but I don't know about the "three" part.  It seems a little bit overly punitive.  It also doesn't feel that immersive when the DF says "three deals," I guess you could write your way around that with dialogue though.  Still it feels weird to trade 'several agreements' for 'one thing.'

 

I don't personally think it being extra punitive is necessary, you already are kind of paying double with a single deal+wasted travel time.  If you do decide something extra is necessary you could make it so that instead of a random deal, the DF specifically looks to upgrade a tier 1 or 2 deal you already have. 

 

Another option would be to have the DF select from a curated list of deals that are more punishing or more relevant to the circumstances.

 

A final option would to be to step outside the "pay for everything with deals and gold" mindset.  Maybe this is just a straight willpower reducer with accompanying dialogue. 

 

"Well I suppose I can lead on the way home,  I'm glad you are getting used to me being in charge." -x willpower

"You're right things do go much more smoothly when I'm in charge. You just worry about looking pretty, I'll do the thinking" -x willpower

 

Overall this is a great example of how the PC can cede control to the DF.  Maybe this is the kind of behavior that should even be rewarded rather than taxed.  Maybe this is a trade of +lives -willpower so that the player is incentivized to take advantage of the new mechanic.  Then in the long run they end up with low willpower and a bossy follower that starts taking excessively long routes home to run up the PCs debt, or maybe even decides to take her to other locations. 

 

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

That's a really interesting idea.  I think I'd prefer a permanent reduction of max willpower though (a slide into being controlled) rather than a temporary willpower decrease. 

 

I actually like both ways, punitive and ceding control.  It seems like there might be room for both, with dialog choice.  Take the penalty, or begin accepting that you're a failure as an adventurer. 

this is really interesting .. i wish i had thought of it.

 

could make it the players choice - take the deal or take the permanent willpower loss (-1 willpower).

 

would work best with it adding to a tiered deal. 

take a tier 3 if you have a tier 2 already running. and if no tier 2 running,

take a tier 2 if you have a tier 1 running,  if no tier 2 or tier 1 already running

take 2 separate tier 1 deals.

 

could also have it where only the deal is offered if the willpower is so low that the player cannot afford to lose willpower anymore.

have the permanent willpower reduction stop at a certain point (maybe 2 or 3 willpower left), with a quest that could let you earn +1 permanent willpower back,

up to the normal 10, but have the quest only available every so many game days (180 for example) and it not be an easy to do quest and cannot have any

deals running to start the quest.  then while the quest is running if the player uses the warp home deal it fails the quest and resets the timer as well.

also if the player starts any other deals during the quest it would fail the quest (for willpower gain) but not reset the timer.

this would let the player have the possibility to earn back the lost willpower but not make it easy.

 

[Hex Bolt]

Concerning the Rescue Me feature, I'd go with very minimal limitations on when it can be used, and leave it to the player to decide when a choice is reasonable.  It's a matter of role playing that character. 

 

As a player, I have my pride and I like a challenge.  I'd never accept a permanent willpower loss.  But I'm playing a character, and the character's personality will vary from game to game.  Some characters might not be strong willed, so asking for help and becoming more dependent (willpower loss) fits that character.  Repeated willpower loss suits a character falling into dependence and subservience and offers a game-based way to drive a character's descent.  And it's devious.  "Really, I don't have to accept any deals, just let you make more of the decisions?  That's so easy.  Yes!"

 

The player would have to choose wisely so as not to wreck a PC, but it's the player's choice.  So I'd use it to further character development for those with a tendency to look to someone stronger for help and guidance.  Even 3 Rescue Me uses, which is a lot, still leaves the PC with a max will of 7 (assuming -1 per use). 

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, valcon767 said:

I really like the idea but I don't know about the "three" part.  It seems a little bit overly punitive.  It also doesn't feel that immersive when the DF says "three deals," I guess you could write your way around that with dialogue though.  Still it feels weird to trade 'several agreements' for 'one thing.'

You wouldn't have to. You would choose to do it. If you think it's a bad deal, you wouldn't even have to raise the topic.

TBH ... It could be more elaborate, or some other condition, or choice between conditions. It was just a simple top-of-the-head example.

 

Do people think that teleport home idea is OK? It should be expensive, if it's allowed at all.

But is allowing it under any circumstance too soft?

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I think I'd prefer a permanent reduction of max willpower though

While this is an ... interesting ... mechanic, DF is not set up to support it in a good way.

If willpower can't go up and down you end up locked into a narrow range of response and dialogs and you lose access to parts of the mod.

 

A more equitable mechanic is a lingering willpower penalty, which caps your max willpower for a limited time.

But even so, it would need something quite dramatic to trigger it, if you compare it to the things that cause willpower loss right now.

 

Something like a DiD defeat and rescue, for example (if DiD defeat+rescue worked in a way you could rely on), might leave you with a lingering willpower limit reduction of one point, and another defeat might add to it, and so on ... but in time you would still be able to get your cap back up to 10. Maybe you would need to take some special action to restore the cap.

 

I know this sounds exactly like permanent reduction and then a mechanic to regain, and from a player perspective it's identical, but from an implementation PoV, it's a little different.

 

This raises questions as to how you regain "permanent" willpower.

Just time?

Or through a special action, or quest?

Or either way?

 

I think this would be dull and pointless if it was just something you could buy with money.

Maybe you could trade dragon souls for willpower? I always seem to have them spare though.

Maybe you have to visit Parthurnax?

Maybe you could trade nirnroot, or the funky ones ... red nirnroot (I forget) ... I never do that quest (who can be bothered dragging around Blackreach looking for herbs?) Also, I believe there is a finite number of those.

And those things are mainquest gated.

Maybe it could just be a radiant quest to get a "teaspoon of cement" from a bandit chest?

I don't have a great idea for it right now.

 

 

The other thing is, basically, DF is about taking deals. That's why I propose mechanics that end up with you taking deals if remotely plausible. Deals are where all the DF functionality is buried. If you don't take them, all you get from DF is somebody messing with your gold, and maybe some games if you get caught in devices ... and DF shouldn't need to rely on DCL or some other mod to randomly trap the PC in devices. It's own way to trap the PC in devices is through deals.

 

The main cash spike you can get right now is from device removal costs. If you need to remove devices multiple times on a dungeon crawl, you will end up worse off at the end. Probably. SLS has ways to steal your gold too, which might make deals more likely. Or might not. Again, you shouldn't need to rely on SLS.

 

I think the best mechanic would be if DF could handle some combat defeat scenarios itself with a follower-based rescue that costs you money and makes some number of deals obligatory. That way it would be a penalty linked to game play difficulty directly rather than through the complex wheels and gears of the economy.

 

Such a mechanic remains ... for now ... a long way off.

Probably the cheapest way to get there is to give the player a way to fast-revive a follower in bleedout and give them a big boost. Instead of allowing the defeat, you have to prevent it in a desperate way that carries a price. That keeps DF out of the realms of actual defeat mechanics, while getting some of the benefits. For that to be usable in combat it would need to be a hotkey, or at least, a minor power.

It would do something like:

• Fully heal follower
• Full restore follower magicka
• Full restore follower stamina
• HP buff follower
• MP buff follower
• ST buff follower
• Give follower temporary damage-taken-mitigation effect
• Give follower temporary damage-dealt effect

 

The price comes afterwards.

As people seem to find just imposing a bunch of deals too much... maybe this...

• the PC must hand over any cash they have on them, or any gold control credit, as a bonus for the follower
• the PC also gains additional debt equal to 25% of enslavement limit
• the PC takes a hit to resistance, of around 40 points
• when the buff wears off, the follower gets a debuff that lasts for a while

 

Probably needs some careful balancing for multiple followers. Maybe you have to target the follower and use the power? If you have multiple followers you can only use it on ones in bleedout, and don't have to use it on all of them. If you use on more than one, then you take the willpower and debt hit per follower you use it on.

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Do people think that teleport home idea is OK? It should be expensive, if it's allowed at all.

But is allowing it under any circumstance too soft?

Not too soft, because you're never required to use it.  I see it as something to be used once or twice a game, in a dire situation.  If the price is high, players won't want to use it often.  If a few players want to use it to "cheat", there's no way to stop that anyway.

 

56 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

If willpower can't go up and down you end up locked into a narrow range of response and dialogs and you lose access to parts of the mod.

I wasn't looking to use it reduce the PC's max will to 2, more like 7 to 9, which still seems like a decent range.  And if the deals option is also available, no one's ever forced to permanently reduce will.  I see losing a few points of max will as driving the PC to take more deals (being harder to refuse).  

 

I know that DF is focused on gold and deals, but I like the idea of developing a mental/emotional dependence, and willpower seemed like it might work, within limits.  Maybe there are other ways for the PC to give up control over time.  But you're the person most familiar with the mod's mechanics so if you think that's too disruptive, then okay. 

 

56 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

This raises questions as to how you regain "permanent" willpower.

Either time (a long lasting willpower debuff) or never.  Permanent means permanent, that's why it's a high price to pay.

 

56 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Probably the cheapest way to get there is to give the player a way to fast-revive a follower in bleedout and give them a big boost.

I tend to like anything that allows more choices, with trade offs.  This concept has potential, but the fit feels off.  The PC revives the follower (benefit to the follower) in return for having to pay the follower with gold or debt (more benefit to the follower).  I know, those were only a couple of your ideas, in addition to debuffs for the PC and/or follower.  I'm not trying to sound harsh.  Maybe it's just the way I'm thinking about it.

[Zaflis]

Playing with iNeed or Realistic Needs makes player want to sleep very often. That in turn almost locks willpower to max 10 and i'm not seeing a way to go below that in a normal playthrough.

 

I was thinking there has to be something that follower does especially at max willpower to cause the downfall. For example the follower could on some random night slip a piercing or insertable (maybe the inflatable one with a squeeze?) and it would wake player up mid sleep. So iNeed sleep would be satisfied - player feel rested but DF not gain the needed 6 hours. Unless you sleep another 6 hours and that would also help gain the time based debt.

 

Other thing is getting out of restraints too easily by just asking. The follower could delay the freedom somehow or add conditions, gold is just not fun enough reward for follower, right?

 

Also if maybe she could always help removing blindfolds and hoods from player even if she's tired and normally wouldn't help. But not letting player see where she's going is not going to help either one reaching the bed. If you are on yoke or armbinder on top of that the blindfold is not coming off.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

The PC revives the follower (benefit to the follower) in return for having to pay the follower with gold or debt (more benefit to the follower). 

I think the benefit here is that the follower finishes the fight for you and you don't die, or get captured by badass bandits and raped two weeks straight while they gradually steal all your items that they strangely left you with most of, or made an SD+ slave, or whatever bad outcome you have for defeats.

 

Compared to that, the follower getting a hot juicy gold deposit is modest.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Zaflis said:

Playing with iNeed or Realistic Needs makes player want to sleep very often. That in turn almost locks willpower to max 10 and i'm not seeing a way to go below that in a normal playthrough.

Enable limited willpower gain.

Enable deals limit max willpower

Enable DDs affect maximum resistance.

Enable gold control mode.

Enable gold control lockout on zero.

 

Then if you have deals, you can't have max willpower, no matter how much you sleep.

And if you have devices, you won't regain lots of willpower, and will regain less willpower generally.

 

Also, bear in mind that if you set your game hard enough, you won't be able to afford to rent a room to sleep in some cases.

This will be most likely if you get into gold control mode then get your gold locked off, but...

 

If you find you aren't getting deals, or not getting in gold control, it's not because of your constant high willpower, it's because you have too much money.

Set the follower to consume more money, daily, or for device removal, or both.

 

Adjust your game to sink more money, or not give it in the first place ... you know how, I'm sure.

 

Getting out of restraints is too easy? Simply put the price up. A lot.

 

These aren't problems with the mod; you've just chosen to set it up so it's relatively easy.

You don't seem to run out of cash.

 

Also, there is already a mechanic for refusing device removal - but it's gated on low willpower  

 

But ... there are two device removal modes. Change it to LIMITED, so the follower will only remove heavy bondage.

I've actually changed this for 2.07, so the follower will also remove blindfolds in this mode, making it a more practical choice.

That sounds a lot like what you were asking for.

 

 

Currently, my character only gets to sleep every few days and is constantly debuffed.

I only sleep at cheap inns, or places I can do it for free. Winking Skeever and Bannered Mare are too expensive.

I use gold control so I can't afford the SLS toll (which is set at 1000, now), as a way to save money by being forced to use other means to leave town.

The follower burns a lot of gold (around 2500 a day), so I can't easily pay them and buy licenses. It is sometimes a trade off. I might do without magic for a while.

I can't sack the follower, because I have a 14 day minimum contract.

I will leave town carrying maybe 5000 gold, but that only gets me two days before I start to run into debt and have to return and sell items, which means dealing with tolls again.

 

I could definitely make things harder by cranking up SLS license prices, or adding more random devices, or making the follower even greedier.

Or I could limit my carrying capacity more, which would limit income significantly.

[Lupine00]

15 minutes ago, Zagzaguel said:

The potion quest is something quite paradox, as I dont like it that much. Still its one of the most intresting things in this mod (even tho its bugged and the "requests" are dull) because its moves away from the whole "Debt/Deals" System without turning the DF into something he isnt

Bugged how?

 

It seems to be fine for me.