Are Mods that Good or are Games that Bad?

[KoolHndLuke]

On 5/14/2020 at 2:13 PM, Nymra said:

Just imagine a big bundled Sexlab + Co. Download on Steam. 1 Click to get it all and also working right away. When u make it paid for 20 bucks and distribute the money between the modders I bet they all would still get rich. 

A topic for another thread.

 

On 5/14/2020 at 2:13 PM, Nymra said:

I can barely play unmodded games anymore without cringing. And Skyrim changed everything virtually. I cannot look at even current AAA titles anymore without noticing this and that missing or just being lazy bad or plain wrong. 

Playing SSE right now and the difference between what is modded and what's vanilla is striking. Vanilla horses vs Convenient Horses for example- no comparison really since CH does so many things that vanilla didn't. A mod makes the trees, grass, water, weather, towns all better. Don't even get me started on the npcs.

[27X]

On 5/14/2020 at 1:13 PM, Nymra said:

I discovered mods very early in my time with PC games. I think the first "MOD" I ever used were texture/model replacers for games like half life and UT (anybody remember the naked female hostages for CS, lol!)

But there were more, like CS basically a mod itself in the beginning, Dota etc. just wow. 

I can barely play unmodded games anymore without cringing. And Skyrim changed everything virtually. I cannot look at even current AAA titles anymore without noticing this and that missing or just beeing lazy bad or plain wrong. 

Latest example was Conan Exiles which was just a very very big letdown, looking both bad and having almost no gameplay, the worst of MMO combat systems and yeah, even Mods lack there, haha. 

Skyrim is also the first game that really excells in melee with all the nice combat mods out there. Mount&Blade feels so lacking in comparison. 

Mods forever... 

On the other hand, the most games I see that are developed by modders from scratch (Slaves of Rome and stuff like that) are just so bad, even compared with basic mod fucntionality in Skyrim. I really dont get it.  
No offense, I appreciate the effort and I really would LOVE to do this myself, but when I simply compare the independent games to what is possible with Sexlab alone is just breathteaking. While the individual games ofc dont need the effort of the user to install all the mods.

While of course it would be easy to offer a fully optimized basic Sexlab Experience with a lot of mods and even prebuild Bodyslide. But for some reason our weird ethical or legal system prohibits that. a real shame.... 

Just imagine a big bundled Sexlab + Co. Download on Steam. 1 Click to get it all and also working right away. When u make it paid for 20 bucks and distribute the money between the modders I bet they all would still get rich. 

It's funny you keep pushing this when it's been proven by greed to a completely bullshit concept. I'd also like to see who gets to dole who gets how much money without getting their asses sued off.

[Nymra]

1 hour ago, 27X said:

It's funny you keep pushing this when it's been proven by greed to a completely bullshit concept. I'd also like to see who gets to dole who gets how much money without getting their asses sued off.

I just mean mods are often indeed way better than PC games, still the money machine is the often too half virus like PC games and their rushed patches lol
I know this is a touchy subject, but it makes me very very sad. 
I spent years learning to even use mods correctly and many many hours. I think this barrier keeps alot of ppl from playing some of the best (and mostly free) content of the internet. 

[rieguy]

Sometimes I think its a difference of design philosophy vs. what players want. Skyrim wants to make you feel powerful.  That was the team's goal (in Todd Howards words).  Thats why the player character can be the head of, or a member of, ideologically opposed or just flat out hostile factions. (Join Dark Brotherhood, Legion Army, and Thieves Guild in one playthrough as a freakin vampire.)  To me, not having these factions be exclusive seems like a horrible glaring issue, but it was intentional according to the developer.  One persons glaring problem is another persons gameplay mechanic.

[landess]

1 hour ago, rieguy said:

not having these factions be exclusive seems like a horrible glaring issue, but it was intentional

I learned self discipline and with it came satisfaction.

 

Doing EVERYTHING possible on one character can be daunting - especially 'time-wise'. But if going for high levels is probably the best choice without grinding into insanity.

 

I personally chose to make many different characters when possible - different races/genders withe one goal in mind - mage/thief/warrior/assassin/etc. with a skill set to complement. No more master of everything. They play sessions were more satisfying to myself, and being able to 'finish the story' sooner made my time with the game feel unique to each character played.

 

Having 'specialty mods' to accent and 'complete' these experiences was most welcome. The Mage College probably didn't expect to have a Dark Elf Vampire Mage leading it, but in one play through - that's what they got!

[KoolHndLuke]

Necro-ing this thread because I'm really disgusted with how games are released in a half-finished, broken state anymore. On the one hand it's awesome that devs can go back and patch bugs and stuff/make small improvements to the games when they need to. But on the other hand it sucks because now most of them think they can release a broken, unfinished product and just promise the players that they'll patch it... someday.... more than likely. This is just terrible business practice from the perspective of the consumer that is giving their money for what they expect to be a product in a finished, working condition- and I don't mean just barely.

 

 It's bad enough that our systems and other software have to be upgraded all the time just to meet the ever increasing technological demands as we move into the future or because of some TOS we really had no choice but to agree to. Devs... Please make finished, working games and then release them after thorough testing to be sure- this is how it should be and you know it. And to the consumers I would ask that they stop encouraging this lousy practice by voting 'no way' with your wallet. They think we're suckers already, don't prove them right.

 

One more complaint and then I'm done: I DONT WANT TO BE LOGGED IN CONTINUOUSLY while I play my games and I don't want continuous updates! Give me the option of whether to update or not. Or at least package in a dlc and let me decide. I'd rather pay you NOT to break my game since you can't always be trusted.

 

Honestly it would just be better if they opened their code up to mod support and let modders make their own changes since they do it better anyway- and that's saying a LOT. Used to be that mod support was a cool thing fans could do to personalize their games. Now it seems more like a necessity.

 

Yes... some modders are just that good.

 

 

-end rant 

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by KoolHndLuke

[Nymra]

49 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Necro-ing this thread because I'm really disgusted with how games are released in a half-finished, broken state anymore. On the one hand it's awesome that devs can go back and patch bugs and stuff/make small improvements to the games when they need to. But on the other hand it sucks because now most of them think they can release a broken, unfinished product and just promise the players that they'll patch it... someday.... more than likely. This is just terrible business practice from the perspective of the consumer that is giving their money for what they expect to be a product in a finished, working condition- and I don't mean just barely.

 

 It's bad enough that our systems and other software have to be upgraded all the time just to meet the ever increasing technological demands as we move into the future or because of some TOS we really had no choice but to agree to. Devs... Please make finished, working games and then release them after thorough testing to be sure- this is how it should be and you know it. And to the consumers I would ask that they stop encouraging this lousy practice by voting 'no way' with your wallet. They think we're suckers already, don't prove them right.

 

One more complaint and then I'm done: I DONT WANT TO BE LOGGED IN CONTINUOUSLY while I play my games and I don't want continuous updates! Give me the option of whether to update or not. Or at least package in a dlc and let me decide. I'd rather pay you NOT to break my game since you can't always be trusted.

 

Honestly it would just be better if they opened their code up to mod support and let modders make their own changes since they do it better anyway- and that's saying a LOT. Used to be that mod support was a cool thing fans could do to personalize their games. Now it seems more like a necessity.

 

Yes... some modders are just that good.

 

 

-end rant 

 

after a gamer life of using mods (my first mod was for Counterstrike BETA.... (not source, not 1.3... BEFORE!) I can only say:
Games are getting worse: yes. 
But mods are always a lottery. Basically every mod SUX like hell and only because it adds new functionality to the game in one way or another it is worth using. 

So when we try churchill here: This is a BAD mod, but it is the only option we have.

 

Because when you use mods extensivly or try to make several mods work together you create a living nightmare that is only tolerable because in 5% of the time you invest you get something REALLY really awesome.

But lets be real, that kind of time invest is NOT necessary with base games. you install them and even when you just have fun 50% of the time it is still 10 times more than with a modded game.

That is for quanitity of course... because quality wise: My easily ten thousand hours of work mod profile (WITHOUT playing) is now the best game I ever played. But it is still FULL of bugs, problems, quirks, incompatibilities and I swear I hate mod creators as much as game developers, because they are basically the same kind of ppl (and I am a mod creator now myself, so I also hate myself, looool). Why? because mods also have the same problems. They usually have no concept or a bad one, are overcomplicated and not user friendly, have no documentation, no compatibilitiy, annoying bugs, force their gameplay idea on the user and and and

So all this is really really down to perspective and cannot be easily compared.

 

The ideal system would be a development company who not only creates a rich base game but ALSO creates their enginge and dev tools to be used easily and 100% engine access FOR mod creators and also enforces certain standards and quality control (to a very very basic extent ofc) and support and guide.

This would be easily the best game ever created in no time, given they also decide against steam workshop exclusives and micro transactions. but well, one can dream.

[KoolHndLuke]

53 minutes ago, Nymra said:

I swear I hate mod creators as much as game developers, because they are basically the same kind of ppl

And here I was giving you guys props for doing such a good job. 

 

But I do agree somewhat with your assessment of the situation as a whole and your idea of a better "system" for improved quality across the board from professional to amateur creators. But, I still think the professional devs need to step up their game on quality to set a better standard for the rest. Just too many buggy, broken games out there to excuse. And don't even want to hear it is like that because of budget or time restraints when some amateur creators are doing awesome things mostly for free and alone/two or three people in most cases. I can think of many very good mods for various games that were ambitious projects and they work with very, very few glitches. I mean sometimes these 'mods' were really dlc in scope and are better than anything the game devs themselves came up with. That's not even counting total conversions.

 

I mean it's really becoming harder and harder to distinguish the amateur from the professional in terms of quality and pure content since the modding community are vast legions and the individual devs are maybe somewhere between 20- 100 person teams. It could be argued that modding has matured and is recognizable enough that it will somewhat supplant even the efforts of some AAA devs. It really already has imo.

 

 

You're not giving yourself nearly enough credit in my estimation.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by KoolHndLuke

[Guest]

2 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Necro-ing this thread

I was looking for a thread like this to vent so, noice!

But what's the RTS you were talking about man, three posts and we still don't know the name, spit the name goddam it KooluHando

Wait.. Civ6 ?

2 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

now most of them think they can release a broken, unfinished product and just promise the players that they'll patch it

I'm okay with this as long as it's a small company. There's a few that didn't bullshit players : thinking of Red hook studios (Darkest Dungeon), Unknown worlds (Subnautica). Stardew, Terrarria, all these I really don't regret buyin in early incomplete states. Was fun trying new updates and patches each time they were released

But big companies is a no no. In fact these days I just don't even buy big games anymore.

EA last games I got was Fifa 98 lol (wooohooo when I feel heavy metal (blur you're not even metal stfu))

Back on topic though.

 

I'm forever done with Skyrim/Fallout/Bethesda. That's it. I realized I didn't mod them because I liked modding. I modded them because they're kings of disappointment.

Had my umpteenth save corruption. And i'm not putting myself through Emil's horrendous writing ever anymore, ever.

 

So I downloaded Subnautica below zero, Witcher 3, the souls series, and i'm like

"Wow. voice acting with actual directions ? A fun progression system ? Actual balanced difficulty & challenges ? Relevant choices ? Well written characters & stories ? What is this feeling ? Is this Fun ? Wow look at this NPC, it actually has animations ?? I thought animations were only arms flapping"

It's like I timeskipped from my Pentium I days to today

Might even try Gatcha wallet impact see what the fuss is about

PS: excuse this mess of a post, I just woke up

And I forgot to talk about mods. I need a coffee.

I feel like modders won't wanna read this, but yeah. You don't fix crap by reintegrating it into your system, you just flush it. Wasted talent & time on Bethesda games. Ain't no amount of titties and framework that can fix lazy loveless games.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Guest

[Dojo_dude]

More tech than ever today, huge companies rushing large teams, and small teams being lazy. Golden days are gone of doing the absolute MAX with what you got and innovating.

[KoolHndLuke]

7 minutes ago, CyanBunnye said:

Wait.. Civ6 ?

I stopped at Civ4 because I didn't like 5's redesign. Playing Hearts of Iron 4- love the historical units, unit designer, manufacturing options, and just building an Empire from nothing really. A.I. needs work though. They have a really strong modding community, but the latest patch seems to have broken some things in my game and it looks like I'll just have to put it on the shelf for awhile. 

 

21 minutes ago, CyanBunnye said:

So I downloaded Subnautica below zero, Witcher 3, the souls series, and i'm like

"Wow. voice acting with actual directions ? A fun progression system ? Actual balanced difficulty & challenges ? Relevant choices ? Well written characters & stories ? What is this feeling ? Is this Fun ? Wow look at this NPC, it actually has animations ?? I thought animations were only arms flapping"

[Guest]

1 minute ago, KoolHndLuke said:

stopped at Civ4 because I didn't like 5's redesign. Playing Hearts of Iron 4- love the historical units, unit designer, manufacturing options, and just building an Empire from nothing really. A.I. needs work though. They have a really strong modding community, but the latest patch seems to have broken some things in my game and it looks like I'll just have to put it on the shelf for awhile. 

I see, I had to shelf Civ for pretty much the same reasons, they kept shoving DLCs here Season pass there that I didn't buy, and it ultimately backfired with ctds & freezes

[Guest]

I recognize that a lot of people are putting lots of hours of their free time in to modding, creating mods to enhance game play in one way or another.

But i came to the realization that it did not matter to me so much, as i got still stuck with the game that did not run and i wished.

On the other hand i had a great ride with sex mods, though now i just got so bored of the game and the mods that i gave up.

The other thing that made me quitting modding my game was simply that especially sex mods look really wooden/mechanically in nature. Of course this is due the fact, that the game engine itself is not great in the sense as it is old. So it has limitations.

But the most important part is, the game it self is just meh now. I just can not see anymore Skyrim or Fallout as they simply annoy me.

By the time you figure out how all mods work for you game play, you kind of done with modding in general. At least to me.

But i appreciate anyone who does create a mod, since i can not invest the time to understand that stupid creation kit and all its quirks.

I do not think i will touch modding for a long time.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, CyanBunnye said:

I was looking for a thread like this to vent so, noice!

But what's the RTS you were talking about man, three posts and we still don't know the name, spit the name goddam it KooluHando

Wait.. Civ6 ?

I'm okay with this as long as it's a small company. There's a few that didn't bullshit players : thinking of Red hook studios (Darkest Dungeon), Unknown worlds (Subnautica). Stardew, Terrarria, all these I really don't regret buyin in early incomplete states. Was fun trying new updates and patches each time they were released

But big companies is a no no. In fact these days I just don't even buy big games anymore.

EA last games I got was Fifa 98 lol (wooohooo when I feel heavy metal (blur you're not even metal stfu))

Back on topic though.

 

I'm forever done with Skyrim/Fallout/Bethesda. That's it. I realized I didn't mod them because I liked modding. I modded them because they're kings of disappointment.

Had my umpteenth save corruption. And i'm not putting myself through Emil's horrendous writing ever anymore, ever.

 

So I downloaded Subnautica below zero, Witcher 3, the souls series, and i'm like

"Wow. voice acting with actual directions ? A fun progression system ? Actual balanced difficulty & challenges ? Relevant choices ? Well written characters & stories ? What is this feeling ? Is this Fun ? Wow look at this NPC, it actually has animations ?? I thought animations were only arms flapping"

It's like I timeskipped from my Pentium I days to today

Might even try Gatcha wallet impact see what the fuss is about

PS: excuse this mess of a post, I just woke up

And I forgot to talk about mods. I need a coffee.

I feel like modders won't wanna read this, but yeah. You don't fix crap by reintegrating it into your system, you just flush it. Wasted talent & time on Bethesda games. Ain't no amount of titties and framework that can fix lazy loveless games.

Talking about small games.

Ever tried Space Haven or Street of Rogue?

I had the best times with these kind of games. Even a puzzler like Life goes on is great. Its not AAA title but very fun.

The only bad experience i had so far was with Rogue Legacy but that only because i die so easily that i just gave up. Though the concept is absolutely great.

[KoolHndLuke]

3 minutes ago, wutpickel said:

I recognize that a lot of people are putting lots of hours of their free time in to modding, creating mods to enhance game play in one way or another.

But i came to the realization that it did not matter to me so much, as i got still stuck with the game that did not run and i wished.

On the other hand i had a great ride with sex mods, though now i just got so bored of the game and the mods that i gave up.

The other thing that made me quitting modding my game was simply that especially sex mods look really wooden/mechanically in nature. Of course this is due the fact, that the game engine itself is not great in the sense as it is old. So it has limitations.

But the most important part is, the game it self is just meh now. I just can not see anymore Skyrim or Fallout as they simply annoy me.

By the time you figure out how all mods work for you game play, you kind of done with modding in general. At least to me.

But i appreciate anyone who does create a mod, since i can not invest the time to understand that stupid creation kit and all its quirks.

I do not think i will touch modding for a long time.

I can understand that- especially about finally figuring out how to make your mods all work for Skyrim/FO4 or whatever. By the time you do all that and test and then tested more, you are kinda sick of the game. Not sure how some people stay so interested in the same games for such a long time. There was a time when I was enthusiastic about learning to make mods. But for whatever reason that fire just died in me a few years ago. Still enjoy them, though, and probably always will.

[Guest]

On 5/26/2019 at 11:05 AM, Kendo 2 said:

Mods/games depends on the company.  I played all of the original Mass Effects and the only mod I used was the one to fixed the stupid ending of #3.  Witcher3, the only mod I used was a console command unlocker; it didn't need mods.  GTA5 and I didn't use any mods; it didn't need them either.  Transversely Sims4 is unplayable without mods to turn off or change the 'features' the devs keep breaking gameplay with.  A Bethesda game without mods; what's the point?  Imagine Skyrim and the ONLY way to play it is the way they shipped it; their interface, their chargen sliders, their meshes, their textures, no overhauls to fix broken quests.  How may play-throughs could you do before you just throw up your hands and say 'fuckit'?

 

Mods and the modding 'community' are Bethesda's saving grace but they're too greedy and stupid to realize it.

I was highly disappointed how Bethesda games went. I did not like Action Role-playing games really. I grew up with stats and all that. And Skyrim and all felt always like something else with Fantasy in mind.

Though i did enjoy some quests in Oblivion, but it was also more action oriented. On the other hand i had a lot of fun with Wasteland 2.

I did, however, play Skyrim through. Not sure if that make me a noob now.

Edited July 30, 2021 by wutpickel

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

I can understand that- especially about finally figuring out how to make your mods all work for Skyrim/FO4 or whatever. By the time you do all that and test and then tested more, you are kinda sick of the game. Not sure how some people stay so interested in the same games for such a long time. There was a time when I was enthusiastic about learning to make mods. But for whatever reason that fire just died in me a few years ago. Still enjoy them, though, and probably always will.

I just gave up on creation kit here and there. It seems, i am not very smart to understand the concept of how the whole thing works to accomplish the thing i wanted.

And yes, you can ask or gather all the information here or somewhere else. But i think i am not that dedicated anymore as it really, really consumes a lot of time.
Now, i am sure i will not touch any of these games for, maybe forever. I am just so sick of even hearing the vanilla dialogs. Plus, there is only so many times you can play a sex mod before it becomes comical.

Like i wrote, i really appreciate the mods that were created and for some, it may be the start as a game developer. And i know that these people worked hard to gain the insight how the game actually works.

So while it was a great ride, it just ended for me. Sad.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, wutpickel said:

Ever tried Space Haven or Street of Rogue?

Nope never heard of 'em. Pictures reminds of me FTL which i'm not very fond of, then again i'm not a space person. Street or Rogue might be more my kind of stuff though

 

[Rokabur]

On 5/26/2019 at 11:01 AM, GrimReaper said:

Seemingly simple things like NPCs having an actual inventory which can be manipulated is actually huge. Almost no game does this because it's easier to  build an entire model instead of making it modular one like Bethesda's games do. Think about how limiting that is if you want to change anything. Other open world games like The Witcher 3 or Ubisoft games don't have this kind of feature, it's pre-built models for each and every NPC, only the player has an inventory. I think one big thing that holds Bethesda back are consoles, without starting to want a discussion about which platform is superior, but Skyrim chokes under its own weight for the simple reason you need to add a lot of constraints and shortcuts on the engine for it being able to be handled by consoles. So I'm actually okay with them waiting for the new console generation for the next Elder Scrolls because this will mean that the technical limitations aren't as severe at the time the game gets released.

 

Of course, all that's left is that they:

1. Create an actual fun game with interesting gameplay, which is the most important thing in any sandbox game yet they've failed to deliver. It's either a fundamental problem (like in Skyrim) or the core gameplay is solid but they fuck up the balance (Fallout 4). They need to move away from the scaling a tad and most importantly need to get it out of their head that infinite leveling is something desirable. It's not. Leveling is a means to an end, not the end goal in itself. Have a power fantasy and stick to it instead of being afraid to ask the player to start anew if they want to play differently.

 

2. Not fuck it up with excessive microtransactions, paid modding and things like that. But given Bethesda's recent track record, I don't think they won't fuck it up somehow.

 

3. That one is outside Bethesda's control, but if the modding community spirals even further down the 'get rich with patreon bucks quick' rabbit hole, there will be hell to pay and modding will be dead in the water.

 

Tbh I wouldn't get may hopes up, the industry itself as well as the communities are in dire need for a crash. Let the passionate people back in and let the parasites throw themselves out. I'm looking forward to Bannerlord, I don't think TES6 will be a game that's worth waiting for. Neither for being an actual fun game nor the modding community being there to save it.

I think I heard somewhere that the fact every NPC has an inventory and wears the gear is part of why that Great Oblivion Gate battle in Oblivion and the civil war in Skyrim are so piddling. It's taxing on the shitty Creation Engine to manage/keep track of all that.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, CyanBunnye said:

Nope never heard of 'em. Pictures reminds of me FTL which i'm not very fond of, then again i'm not a space person. Street or Rogue might be more my kind of stuff though

 

Streets of Rogue is really great. You can punch you way out or kill everyone. I especially liked to play as the zombie as you can infect people. If you never tried the game, check reviews. Oh, you die a lot as well. You can even play with other people.
FTL was somewhat hard, Space Haven is more a rogue RTS but similar for sure. You can easily get stuck and not getting resources. But for the main seller was exploration. I would recommend it when it is on sale.

Get GOG, since you actually own the game then.

 

I have to add that these are way different games and "i" like them because they are simple and fun. That may not be for everyone of course.

Edited July 31, 2021 by wutpickel

[Rokabur]

On 10/16/2020 at 11:10 AM, rieguy said:

Sometimes I think its a difference of design philosophy vs. what players want. Skyrim wants to make you feel powerful.  That was the team's goal (in Todd Howards words).  Thats why the player character can be the head of, or a member of, ideologically opposed or just flat out hostile factions. (Join Dark Brotherhood, Legion Army, and Thieves Guild in one playthrough as a freakin vampire.)  To me, not having these factions be exclusive seems like a horrible glaring issue, but it was intentional according to the developer.  One persons glaring problem is another persons gameplay mechanic.

Is why I liked Morrowind so much. You can only join ONE of the 3 great houses. You can TECHNICALLY join the Thieves Guild and the Warriors Guild at the same time but eventually you have to choose one side or the other. Joining some factions will bar you from joining others. Only a few NPC's will actually deal with you as a vampire and there are 3 clans to choose from. Bloodmoon expansion, eventually during the main quest you have to choose whether to become a werewolf or be cured.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, wutpickel said:

Streets of Rogue is really great. You can punch you way out or kill everyone. I especially liked to play as the zombie as you can infect people. If you never tried the game, check reviews. Oh, you die a lot as well. You can even play with other people.
FTL was somewhat hard, Space Haven is more a rogue RTS but similar for sure. You can easily get stuck and not getting resources. But for the main seller was exploration. I would recommend it when it is on sale.

Get GOG, since you actually own the game then.

Alright will keep an eye out for sales, don't mind dying a lot in games, as long as it's not ffffff dragon's lair type of dying lol

I don't use GOG though, prefer to stick with Steam

 

[Kendo 2]

1 hour ago, wutpickel said:

I was highly disappointed how Bethesda games went. I did not like Action Role-playing games really. I grew up with stats and all that.

 

I never identified with my character in FO4 and the game just sucked.  I somewhat identified with my very first character in Skyrim but that was because the game was new and it was a new experience.  I didn't have any problems identifying with my characters in Oblivion, FO3 or NewVegas.  Bethesda doesn't make RPGs anymore.

Haven't played Cyberpunk 2077 and I doubt I will since the genre bores me.  I had a fucking blast playing Geralt though.  I was fully immersed in that character and world and I was sad when I finished the game.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

 

I never identified with my character in FO4 and the game just sucked.  I somewhat identified with my very first character in Skyrim but that was because the game was new and it was a new experience.  I didn't have any problems identifying with my characters in Oblivion, FO3 or NewVegas.  Bethesda doesn't make RPGs anymore.

Haven't played Cyberpunk 2077 and I doubt I will since the genre bores me.  I had a fucking blast playing Geralt though.  I was fully immersed in that character and world and I was sad when I finished the game.

I will say this.

My (so far) best experience with character immersion was with Dead Space 1. It was a great story from the start and you really got captured as you progressed through the story.
Skyrim or Fallout did not yield the same experience. Though NV did to some degree.

Never really got into Witcher though. I have the first one. Maybe i will get it another go. Oh, the other one that really like from the story and character was Prey (remake). Not to forget Bioshock which was also excellent in my view. But of course all these are no rpg's. Except for NV.

I know that most people do not like stats and all the rolling out a character. So its obvious why we see games like these.

As for RPG, Pillars of Eternity was really good, though i did not got really connected to my character.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Necro-ing this thread because I'm really disgusted with how games are released in a half-finished, broken state anymore. On the one hand it's awesome that devs can go back and patch bugs and stuff/make small improvements to the games when they need to. But on the other hand it sucks because now most of them think they can release a broken, unfinished product and just promise the players that they'll patch it... someday.... more than likely. This is just terrible business practice from the perspective of the consumer that is giving their money for what they expect to be a product in a finished, working condition- and I don't mean just barely.

 

 It's bad enough that our systems and other software have to be upgraded all the time just to meet the ever increasing technological demands as we move into the future or because of some TOS we really had no choice but to agree to. Devs... Please make finished, working games and then release them after thorough testing to be sure- this is how it should be and you know it. And to the consumers I would ask that they stop encouraging this lousy practice by voting 'no way' with your wallet. They think we're suckers already, don't prove them right.

 

One more complaint and then I'm done: I DONT WANT TO BE LOGGED IN CONTINUOUSLY while I play my games and I don't want continuous updates! Give me the option of whether to update or not. Or at least package in a dlc and let me decide. I'd rather pay you NOT to break my game since you can't always be trusted.

 

Honestly it would just be better if they opened their code up to mod support and let modders make their own changes since they do it better anyway- and that's saying a LOT. Used to be that mod support was a cool thing fans could do to personalize their games. Now it seems more like a necessity.

 

Yes... some modders are just that good.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. But again, it does seem to be a general agreement among most that game devs will put out whatever when they feel it's "good enough", and spray the bugs IF they get to it. That being most likely IF the reviews come back with enough complaints that they think it will mess with future profits. Again, I'm limited to my TS3, but in conversation with @namaradus, who worked on parts of those games for EA, he said that there were times that problems were brought to the attention of the decision makers, and the decision was "to not spend any more time trying to fix it, and get it to market, we'll worry about it later". 

 

AND... people bought TS3... AND the EPs and SPs, and do the same with TS4, and wait for TS5, just as people do with other games from other devs. 

 

We are all like crack heads chasing that magic dragon (or whatever it is crackheads chase). It was good... maybe it will be better after the patch??? Ooooo an EP!!! Shiny!!! I'll add that and play some more. TS3, I play with dolls. 3 years, and dressing my sims is my fun, then going on vacation... OY! The random killing spree is fun also, as there are a few fun mods that allow a few fun ways to send other sims to meet their creator, but I digress...

 

No, I don't, really, as this bring me to CC. It does add different elements to stale games. I and others make various garments and other CC, I make sexbots! They work with a feature in Kinky World, another mod that has kept TS3 going long passed it's self life, again, just as I'm sure other mods have done for other games. So, devs don't care that much, as long as the money rolls in, and modders will mod, some because we enjoy it, some for money.