SexLab Disparity

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, potato152 said:

I can't for the life of me get SLD to actually sue morph values-  it seems to be reading node values perfrectly well from SLIF(updates when it should), but refuses to use the read values to actually scale debuffs- since I use the morph modus of SLIF all my NIO nodes stay at 1, which SLD insists on using to scale. Is there something i'm missing about getting SLD to scale debuffs using morphs? 

 

Note: I've been using the readout in the upper right corner of the 'main' mcm to verify the state of morphs/nodes- in the x/y numbers setup, the left side number changes according to SLIf output and the right side remains at 1. If I've misinterpreted anything, please let me know.

It's possible there's a bug here, as the various conditions that exist create a lot of paths through the code.

It was months ago now I wrote this, so my memory of it is hazy.

 

If I can identify the problem, I'll put out a fix immediately. It may take a bit of back and forth.

 

First thing is to ensure it's not a simple configuration issue.

 

There's a tickbox on the Main page that says "Use SLIF for nodes + morphs".

This determines if SLIF is used, but doesn't enable/disable morphs.

For practical purposes, you should see the same morph values whether you tick this or not; in theory using SLIF is simply more efficient than getting the values directly.

So, a good test is to toggle this box and see if anything changes.

 

 

The values for nodes shown on the Main page should have a heading "SLIF Node Values" above them if you are actually using SLIF, otherwise they will say "NetImmerse Node Values". Note that you can enable morph values without SLIF.

Either way, the Main page display won't refresh unless you at least change MCM page and come back again.

 

 

In the Main page display, top right, the value on the left of the slash is the body node value, and the value on the right is the final "synthetic" value that SLD has obtained by processing your morphs. Depending on what settings you used on the morph page, this might just be the node values again, or it might be something quite different.

 

 

At the top of the Morphs page is the tickbox that enables morphs. This doesn't care whether you are using SLIF or not, it works the same either way.
Well ... not exactly the same ... but it should be very similar. This must be ticked, or morphs do nothing, SLIF or non SLIF, doesn't matter.

 

There are two ways for the final morph calculations to apply to the node: MULTIPLY or REPLACE - this setting is global to all morph handling.

I suggest you set REPLACE to test this.

 

Pay attention to the "Breast Morph Contribution" / "Belly Morph Contribution" and "Butt Morph Contribution" on the top left. These determine how much morph is used, and how much node value. It's explained in the MCM tooltip. I suggest you set these to 100% so you get all morph value, and no node value. When you combine this with REPLACE for the Mode, you should get node values determined entirely by the morphs, and totally ignoring the node values.

This will give bad results, but it's good for testing  

In real use, setting these at 100% with MULTIPLY mode is likely to work best in terms of accuracy. YMMV.

 

If you have the Contribution sliders at 0%, your morphs won't do anything. Try zero, and verify it uses the node values, then set them to 100% and see how it goes. It should be different, though of course it depends on what the morph values are.

 

 

 

SLD doesn't change any morph values. So the value shown on the main page is what SLD uses, but you can't see it any other way; no other mods use or see it.

 

The different weight values for each morph are auto-proportional; they are scaled internally so they sum to 1.0. The cross-weighting of morphs applies after the offset and scale mechanism used to adjust each value, and is used to combine the calculated value from each morph into a combined morph value.

 

On the main page, with SLIF enabled, you should probably see something like 0.87 / 0.87 for breasts, and 0.80 / 0.80 for everything else.

I don't know why SLIF doesn't have these values at 1.0 by default ... if anyone can explain, please do so!

 

 

 

 

 

You say that on your Main page, the left values are not 1.0, but the right ones are 1.0 ...

Quote

"the left side number changes according to SLIf output and the right side remains at 1"

 

This would mean that SLIF is changing the node values (not morphs) for your character, and that you are calculating a morph derived value that is using morphs that are all 0.0, or you've set no weight, or no contributions.

 

 

You say that SLIF should be changing morphs and not changing nodes.

You can't rely on that unless you verified it. Most mods with native SLIF support change the node values in SLIF, not the morph values.

However, most mods with patches supplied by SLIF change the morphs and not the nodes. It's a little counter-intuitive, but it's how it is.

 

 

If you use the Debug menu in SLD, and inspect the node values (which have keys set by the owning mod), you should see maybe one key for each node, and it should belong to SLIF (should be called SEXLAB INFLATION FRAMEWORK.ESP, and the value set should match the node value you saw on the main page (the figure on the left).

 

Alas, there's no way to show the morph values in the MCM. It would be nice, but I didn't do it. I believe I used SLIF to inspect them.

If you have mods that actually set the morphs, when you go to Morph Modus in SLIF, the player should already be registered, and some morphs will have values other than 0.0

Quote

"since I use the morph modus of SLIF all my NIO nodes stay at 1"

 

To test whether SLD is calculating and using morphs, try setting the "offset" value (on the right) for a morph to 1.0. For testing purposes, give that morph a weight of 1.0 and the others zero, so that morph provides the entire value for its associated node (breasts for example).

 

I tried this on my setup:

• I set BreastSmall Weight to 1.0, and set its offset to 1.0.
• I set all the other Breast Morph weights to 0.0
• I set the main mode to REPLACE, and the Breast Morph Contribution to 100%.
• I set Breast Morph Master Scale 1.5.
• I backed out of the MCM entirely, waited long enough for an SLD update to run, then went back in to look at the SLD Main page.
• I could see a synthetically derived breast node value of 3.0 (on the right of the slash).
• This was as expected.
• ...
• I then went into SLIF, and set the SmallBreasts morph on the actor to 1.47.
• I went into SLD and set the offset for SmallBreasts to 0.0
• I backed out of the MCM and waited a few seconds for a update.
• I went back in and checked the SLD main page, and saw breast node values of 0.39
• This was also as expected; the small breasts morph makes breasts smaller, not bigger.

[seiryuufang]

Any thoughts/plans on making this available for SE?

[Lupine00]

43 minutes ago, seiryuufang said:

Any thoughts/plans on making this available for SE?

Pretty much anyone could load this up into SE editor, recompile and save. Done.

You would also need to convert the animations, if you used them.

 

There's no real conversion to do. My poor dev machine has no space to install SE, so I can't do it there, and my "play" machine is MO based installs.

Maybe, in a couple of months I'll get a new computer.

[seiryuufang]

21 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Pretty much anyone could load this up into SE editor, recompile and save. Done.

You would also need to convert the animations, if you used them.

 

There's no real conversion to do. My poor dev machine has no space to install SE, so I can't do it there, and my "play" machine is MO based installs.

Maybe, in a couple of months I'll get a new computer.

Oh, when mod was first released I wasn't able to get it to work. Something about failing to load one of the dependencies. I saw that this was fixed for LE, but wasn't sure if this fix would transition over to SE. I just haven't tried converting it post update. I'll try that tonight.

 

Because I wasn't able to play around with it earlier I wasn't able to check, so I'll ask you. This mod allows applying movement speed debuffs post non-consensual scenes, as well as buffs/debuffs scaling with skeleton nodes? And if yes to the second one, will it also detect bodymorph for those who use that for pregnancy mods instead of nioverride scaling?

[seiryuufang]

Just did the port, and unfortunately NiOverride isn't being read. I have the skee plugin with racemenu, as well as trying to manually place the oldrim NiOverride files, but SLDisparity still doesn't read them as being installed.

[Zazine]

Oh, damn. I play a male character!

He's actually got a manually-added belly node, via OutfitStudio shenanigans that I don't fully understand (used a tutorial). This was done namely so I could see the visual effects of running EggFactory, which is able to offer male support even if it can't inflate them.

IIRC, the male body replacer SAM comes with a belly node built in? I'm not familiar, as I use an SOS compatible body, but it could help others.
The biggest drawback for inflating parts of the male body is that available clothing refits also lack belly and breast nodes (again, I think SAM has some vanilla refits, somewhere...?). That's definitely outside of your mod's scope, so I wouldn't worry about that.

I'm no coder, but from EggFactory's MCM, it seems to check for relevant nodes instead of my character's sex-according-to-Skyrim (character is designated female by SexLab mods). "Allow males" is a simple toggle in the menu. I wonder if Disparity could be made to check for compatible nodes, rather than player sex? Node-requiring options could be selectively disabled/enabled that way. Buffs triggered by arousal, clothing worn, drug use, time-since-raped, and last-orgasm; these were all interesting stats mentioned in this thread that I like the sound of, and they don't involve novel nodes afaik. I'm particularly interested in those visual effects, blackout, and tripping options!
 

If feasible, selective enabling of 'nodeless' options would allow for partial male support. I apologetically admit, I have no idea if that's a ridiculous request or not, script-wise. If not feasible, I'd love to know more about the hows and whys, if you're up for it! I hope to learn enough to create standalone mod content one day. It will help.

I also notice that there are spells added by EggFactory that let you check how far along a pregnancy is. It's displayed as a % value out of 100, and will report if there are twins or not. These might be useful stats to reference - theoretically allowing for the application of pregnancy debuffs without requiring additional nodes. Again, could serve as a workaround to allow for partial support for characters lacking such nodes.

I really appreciate the thought and time you've put into this, and even if I can't use it on my preferred character, it's been a blast just reading through your work process. I may have to give in and just make a lady character finally, hah.

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, Zazine said:

I wonder if Disparity could be made to check for compatible nodes, rather than player sex?

I suppose it could.

I almost refactored all the node access for V13, but other things came up.

 

Stuff like Hormones, MME and Apropos are female only, so without those, or any nodes to modify, there's not much to go on.

 

Even when I ship the DD support, it won't improve utility for males because DD for Him is in an uncertain state. I think the reboot sort of works, but there are a few missing things and a bunch of wrong text messages. I would imagine the animations are not so good either. I haven't tried it myself, so I'm not sure. But if it is working OK, then you could at least have that feature as a male.

 

It was just easier to have the mod fail to start, rather than people getting confused.

 

Properly supporting optional nodes will be some work, so it's not quite as simple as removing the check for gender.

 

 

All these things about Egg Factory, other mod-specific or pregnancy specific stuff, are things I want to add incrementally in V15.

 

V14 has progressed well. I just have work pressure at the moment that means I'm not working on it, but there's not really that much to do ... well ... mainly I need to add the new events, and some of those are trivial and some are a bit more complex. The one that adds devices will probably take some time.

[Lupine00]

18 hours ago, seiryuufang said:

Just did the port, and unfortunately NiOverride isn't being read. I have the skee plugin with racemenu, as well as trying to manually place the oldrim NiOverride files, but SLDisparity still doesn't read them as being installed.

It didn't occur to me that SE would have different NiOverride to LE. If the files are different names it's not going to work, because they're globals, and the script name needs to match.

[Zazine]

Ohh, right. Of course! Gender support would be baked into the other mods you're referencing. I'm not running hormones, apropose or MME, so it makes perfect sense I wouldn't have noticed the gender limitations arising long before your mod made any calls. Thanks for pointing that out. "Fail to start" is definitely the ideal solution for now.

Upside, I'm running DD for him (Reboot 3.0) along with cursed loot right now. You are correct: it's usable, but unfinished work.
It's mostly the suits that haven't been converted - catsuits and straightjackets. Their play mechanics and animations function, but render the body invisible . There's a pear of anguish gag that also has no male model.

Despite DD for Him's claims, there are still a lot of item descriptions and message pop-ups that are female-descriptive. I could potentially convert the rest, but I'd need permissions to post any of it publicly. No time frame there.

Regarding DD's animations: Most of the idle animations when bound are alright, actually! Walking in an armbinder with unbound legs has a feminine strut, but running looks fine. The walk animation makes sense with restrictive heels or legwear, so it's livable.
The worst offender is a couple of touch-yourself animations (not masturbating) making my toon reach for nonexistent breasts. This only happens when his hands are free, though. I don't know if those animations come from DD resource plugins, or DCur itself.

During sex events, same: characters reaching for nonexistent breasts is the only memorable complaint. That's a me problem though. I could stand to toggle my toon's Sexlab gender back to male and see what happens when bound.

V14 sounds excellent, so even if I'm in the minority waiting for what V15 may offer, I'm sure a lot of folks are going to be very excited with your next update. Certainly gives me time to consider attempting DD for Him modifications...

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, Zazine said:

The worst offender is a couple of touch-yourself animations (not masturbating) making my toon reach for nonexistent breasts. This only happens when his hands are free, though. I don't know if those animations come from DD resource plugins, or DCur itself.

They are from DD.

 

The suits thing can be overcome to some extent by substituting a male model that actually exists instead of the specific suit model (which will never be converted). Could even vary the textures. I'm sure there's at least one rubber suit for males, and with the right textures it could stand in for the missing ones.

 

You can easily convert text with something like ESPTranslator.

 

It depends how badly you want bound males. Valedarius may have done some work in this direction.

[applesandmayo]

How does this mod stack up vs Sexlab Inflation Framework? I get that there is the buff/debuff element to this, but so far as anything else, how goes it? Just curious - not a contest, just comparison/contrast.

[JelloBiafra]

Will there one day be some kind of recommended settings for lazy people? Just asking.... for a friend. Yeah, definitely not me. I'm not lazy.

[Zaflis]

On 3/25/2019 at 1:32 AM, JelloBiafra said:

Will there one day be some kind of recommended settings for lazy people? Just asking.... for a friend. Yeah, definitely not me. I'm not lazy.

I think the different profiles would need to have names for that to be feasible. Saving profiles with filenames? But not sure if that's ever possible because people want to play different ways and have different mods. There can be some attempt with difficulties from easy, medium, hard, plaything... for example. You might still want to customize them afterwards for better fit. So there's no skipping on learning how to set MCM.

[JelloBiafra]

3 hours ago, Zaflis said:

I think the different profiles would need to have names for that to be feasible. Saving profiles with filenames? But not sure if that's ever possible because people want to play different ways and have different mods. There can be some attempt with difficulties from easy, medium, hard, plaything... for example. You might still want to customize them afterwards for better fit. So there's no skipping on learning how to set MCM.

Time for m... my lazy friend to get setting up MCMs then.

[Lupine00]

On 3/24/2019 at 9:49 AM, applesandmayo said:

How does this mod stack up vs Sexlab Inflation Framework? I get that there is the buff/debuff element to this, but so far as anything else, how goes it? Just curious - not a contest, just comparison/contrast.

It's completely complimentary to SLIF. They don't do similar things at all. SLD has features so that you can get good results if you have SLIF setting morphs on your character, and it will use SLIF data to improve performance/reliability, but it doesn't replace a single function of SLIF, and SLIF doesn't do anything to buff or debuff characters.

 

SLIF is a mod for managing how numerous mods are allowed to modify your character's visible body shape.

DCL is a mod for debuffing (or buffing) your character based on body shape, and other inputs, like arousal, wear&tear, etc.

It also has some events it can fire based on those things, like rape, falling over, etc.

 

The goal was always to manage buffs/debuff/events based on what you're wearing too, and to take inputs from an ever increasing range of mods.

[Lupine00]

On 3/25/2019 at 10:32 AM, JelloBiafra said:

Will there one day be some kind of recommended settings for lazy people? Just asking.... for a friend. Yeah, definitely not me. I'm not lazy.

The settings are saved as files, and if you have a profile you think is cool, you can post it here for others to use. If it gets a couple of likes, I'll add it to the downloads.

 

While the number of the slot matches the filename, you can just change that if you want to put a file in a different slot. It's not magical or tricky at all.

I didn't provide for user-named files in the first place because I wanted slots to be fast to use. I wanted it to be just "click, bam, done".

 

I prefer that approach of "user contributions" rather than posting my own ideas, because I never wanted to make a mod that just worked one way, or just did one thing in terms of the kind of play style you have.

 

I use SLD primarily for "weak" character play, but you could just as easily use it for powering your character up.

[Lupine00]

I've been away from Skyrim this week. I'm pretty busy with real stuff just now.

Probably a couple of weeks now before I can get back into it.

 

I'm incredibly lazy about writing the mod too. If I have free time, I'd almost always rather play Skyrim than write code

 

However, when I do write the code, I write it pretty quickly. The things that take time are researching the internals of other mods, and resolving conflicts with other mods. Currently, that's not a problem, and the stuff coming in V14 doesn't have a lot of reliance on some other mod - not the way the SLIF code in V13 did.

 

V14 is coming along pretty well, and no roadblocks, it's just me holding it up by not working on it much.

If anything, I might drop the events that make you put on devices (self bondage), because those are the main thing that needs work right now.

 

It is a big step in terms of useful functionality, and I think even without every bell and whistle, it adds a lot to the flexibility of the mod.

[PenBoozerX]

"Character must be female"

sadface

[Lupine00]

9 hours ago, kiesu said:

"Character must be female"

sadface

This was just discussed.

 

While it's not that big a deal to remove the restriction, the mod doesn't do a whole lot for a male right now. You can trigger off arousal, and wear+tear, and that's it - though that's not nothing, so I can see some people might want it.

 

Also, I didn't really worry about futa, but to get the best benefit for a futa, you need a female skeleton.

 

 

I'm in favour of "fixing" it, it's not a huge task, but it's not trivial either, and a low priority, so for those who like their male PC's that might translate to "will not fix"  because they could be waiting any amount of time between months and infinity. Not to say I won't change my mind and do it sooner, but I have things going on in reality, and it's going to be a couple of weeks before I can do any work at all.

 

I can see in practice this might make a good V14 point release feature, because V14 will be better for males, assuming you have some working devious devices for your male character.

[PenBoozerX]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

This was just discussed.

 

While it's not that big a deal to remove the restriction, the mod doesn't do a whole lot for a male right now. You can trigger off arousal, and wear+tear, and that's it - though that's not nothing, so I can see some people might want it.

 

Also, I didn't really worry about futa, but to get the best benefit for a futa, you need a female skeleton.

 

 

I'm in favour of "fixing" it, it's not a huge task, but it's not trivial either, and a low priority, so for those who like their male PC's that might translate to "will not fix"  because they could be waiting any amount of time between months and infinity. Not to say I won't change my mind and do it sooner, but I have things going on in reality, and it's going to be a couple of weeks before I can do any work at all.

 

I can see in practice this might make a good V14 point release feature, because V14 will be better for males, assuming you have some working devious devices for your male character.

No pressure bud, I know I'm a niche audience, and inflation frameworks and whatnot dont work on male skeletons either. But mods that do and would have extra functionality with this would be most welcome addition! I like my survival type various debuff mods, I was instantly onboard with this and got instantly cock-blocked lol!

Hope you remove the restriction at some point I'd like this for all my character saves. Bi problems XD

[Lupine00]

8 minutes ago, kiesu said:

I was instantly onboard with this and got instantly cock-blocked lol!

The rationale for the cock blocking was around how to handle a wrong skeleton cleanly and without player confusion.

In V12, there was really only the node stuff.

It was a bit of a lazy solution, so I don't feel bad revisiting it. Just may be some time.

[Zazine]

I am slowly teaching myself the necessary skills to try and reshape existing DD "suits" for male characters. I have some working prototypes standing in for multiple missing item models, but they need to:
a) be better-looking (no color variants yet either)
b) be formatted to fit the default male SOS body, and not my wildass modified one
c) not be riddled with unnecessary mod dependencies
d) be fucking organized
e) sort out permissions to recycle mod content I don't know

No promises, but who knows? If I can figure something out, anything's possible.

[Nazzzgul666]

Hi, glad to see the rape system working now, so far it was fine for my tests although my setup is incredibly script heavy. Didn't really test anything else honestly, i'm already overloaded with debuffs, i might add some buffs if i'm too much bothered by all the debuffs.^^

 

But there are still things i'd like to have, like the "not beeing able to get up again after falling due to breast size" feature, forcing you to crawl. Not sure if you're still planning to add this at some point but i'll describe what i'd hope for in perfect conditions:

1. You may try to struggle to get up again. (I believe there is an animation for this in Rohzimas animated poses pack, can do some research if you want to add it).

2. You may fail completly. This means you can't get up until 

  a) your stamina recovered

  b) your breast size decreased. Would require rapers spawn if none are around, rape would decrease breast size by either reducing MME milk contained on orgasm or arousal lowered.

 Yes, this means using SLSO you have to make yourself cum during rape which might take some time.

3. You may half fail, i.e. only get on all fours and crawl.

4. Enabling rape conditions while crawling.

5. Seperate rape conditions for creatures and humans.

 

Finally two things i'd consider great to have, first one i'm not sure if it's possible, second is something i might try to do myself with a helping hand:

1. Triggering MFC animations kinda works, i'm not sure if this is even intentional but 2 things i've noticed:

  a) Sometimes the PC is in the wrong place, and sexlab doesn't allow to switch places with a creature, which means that only the male is animated.

  b) It also (seem to) allow CCF animations, using sexlab tools it shows some of Billys. Not sure if it's a tag problem on his side.

 

2. Adding comments based on, well, in theory everything your mod covers but if i do it myself i'd mainly focus on the things i care about and that are lacking imho. Mostly tits and ass, possibly wear & tear state. Range from beeing pleased to very humilating. If somebody has a guide for dummies how to do that, i'd try to make an own .esp complementing your mod. If i get anything done at all i'd add everything others suggest as long as i'M working on it, but i can't promise anything.

[Pynda]

Delete - a rant about 'Disparity' not clearly stating that it only supports female PCs. Anyone wanting to assign buff/debuffs for males might check out the 'SexLabUtil'? At least as of right now, I still do have some hope that I might be able to get this one to do something useful with male PCs.

 

https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/236-sexlabutil1-2015-03-28/

 

Update: this utility has extremely limited functionality. It is not going to work for what I'd like it to do.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Pynda said:

Delete - a rant about 'Disparity' not clearly stating that it only supports female PCs. Anyone wanting to assign buff/debuffs for males might check out the 'SexLabUtil'? At least as of right now, I still do have some hope that I might be able to get this one to do something useful with male PCs.

 

https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/236-sexlabutil1-2015-03-28/

 

Update: this utility has extremely limited functionality. It is not going to work for what I'd like it to do.

SexLabUtil1 does a lot of things, but it doesn't have that much overlap with SLD.

 

I think the motivation to install it is often because you want one particular thing it can do.

 

If people want to list what they use SLU1 for, I'm curious to hear about it, as some of those things might work well as SLD events.