Mortal Weapons & Armors

[jealco]

@Monoman1 Ok.  Got a clean install rolling, pretty short load order (skeleton mod, body mods, RaceMenu, etc.)  No mods which affect gameplay in any way except Requiem.  Weapons aren't losing durability with Requiem running now.  Reverted to vanilla and weapons took damage as expected.  I'm still seeing that weird issue where, when I temper a weapon to test the mod, it doesn't show up in the equip list until I drop it.  That occurred in both the Requiem and vanilla test run I just did.

Does MWA need to load AFTER Requiem for the Indifferent.esp, or Requiem in general?

 

Edit:  Tested MWA at the tail end of the load order with Requiem.  Still no damage to tempered weapons.  Untempered items seem to take damage as expected.

 

Edit2:  Also, could this be from me using the newest build of Requiem?  Not sure what Requiem build you're using, or if that should matter to MWA or not.

[Monoman1]

4 hours ago, Barzing said:

how can i adjust the minimum degradation of weapons looted on NPCs ? they are often very low and i can just use them for very few hits. It's probably in the MCM menu but didn't find it

You can't right now. Next version will have it. Really you're not meant to use items from corpses. 

4 hours ago, Barzing said:

met a bug with a mod that not availabe anymore on nexus called "Racemenu Equip"  that allow you to go naked and equip weapons while in Racemenu. this mod apparently create fake weapons all starting by "A" (in the name of it)  to be able to test them while in Racemenu to adjust postions. But with your mod these weapons are no more invisible in the inventory as they should be and aren't deleted at the end of racemenu session. So i suddenly come with tons of weapons in my inventory. Plus i see them flying around me sometime just at the start of racemenu session

Next version will have a keyword you can add to items to make MWA ignore it. You might also be able to add the weapons to the immune list currently. 

3 hours ago, jealco said:

@Monoman1 Ok.  Got a clean install rolling, pretty short load order (skeleton mod, body mods, RaceMenu, etc.)  No mods which affect gameplay in any way except Requiem.  Weapons aren't losing durability with Requiem running now.  Reverted to vanilla and weapons took damage as expected.  I'm still seeing that weird issue where, when I temper a weapon to test the mod, it doesn't show up in the equip list until I drop it.  That occurred in both the Requiem and vanilla test run I just did.

Does MWA need to load AFTER Requiem for the Indifferent.esp, or Requiem in general?

 

Edit:  Tested MWA at the tail end of the load order with Requiem.  Still no damage to tempered weapons.  Untempered items seem to take damage as expected.

 

Edit2:  Also, could this be from me using the newest build of Requiem?  Not sure what Requiem build you're using, or if that should matter to MWA or not.

Fuck that sounds like a nightmare but good call on MO. You'll be glad you did in the end.

 

Might be a stupid idea but have you tried cranking tempering degradation up to max just to test? 

And I don't think load order will matter at all really. 

 

Edit"?: wait. Is it tempering or durability that isn't dropping?. Keep in mind that tempering protects durability. Durability wont decrease until tempering is gone. 

[jealco]

18 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

You can't right now. Next version will have it. Really you're not meant to use items from corpses. 

Next version will have a keyword you can add to items to make MWA ignore it. You might also be able to add the weapons to the immune list currently. 

Fuck that sounds like a nightmare but good call on MO. You'll be glad you did in the end.

 

Might be a stupid idea but have you tried cranking tempering degradation up to max just to test? 

And I don't think load order will matter at all really. 

 

Edit"?: wait. Is it tempering or durability that isn't dropping?. Keep in mind that tempering protects durability. Durability wont decrease until tempering is gone. 

I'll test that tonight.

 

Tempering is borked.  Durability works fine.

 

Edit:  I'm leaning heavily towards this tempering issue having something to do with Requiem itself.  I'm using the new version (3.2.0) and I'm wondering what version of Requiem you're running.  That may rule out the issue, since vanilla works fine for me right now.

[Monoman1]

16 hours ago, jealco said:

Edit:  I'm leaning heavily towards this tempering issue having something to do with Requiem itself.  I'm using the new version (3.2.0) and I'm wondering what version of Requiem you're running.  That may rule out the issue, since vanilla works fine for me right now.

First off. I use an old version of requiem (1.9.4.1) because I just don't have the time to update. + I've a lot of requiem patches and edits that I'm not sure are compatible anymore. 

 

SO, for reasons I do not understand. 

Initially, after installing the new version of requiem I had the same problem. No tempering decreases. So I went into the CK and added some debugging to display numbers etc - No functional changes, and recompiled the script and suddenly it's started working....

 

But like I say. I don't get it. I tested 2 new games now and both times it worked....

So I guess you can give this a whirl: Mortal Weapons & Armor.7z

 

NOTE that it is a development build of MWA I'm working on. Changes can be found on the dev blog: https://www.loverslab.com/blogs/entry/9880-mortal-weapons-armors-dev-blog/

 

[jealco]

7 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

First off. I use an old version of requiem (1.9.4.1) because I just don't have the time to update. + I've a lot of requiem patches and edits that I'm not sure are compatible anymore. 

 

SO, for reasons I do not understand. 

Initially, after installing the new version of requiem I had the same problem. No tempering decreases. So I went into the CK and added some debugging to display numbers etc - No functional changes, and recompiled the script and suddenly it's started working....

 

But like I say. I don't get it. I tested 2 new games now and both times it worked....

So I guess you can give this a whirl: Mortal Weapons & Armor.7z

 

NOTE that it is a development build of MWA I'm working on. Changes can be found on the dev blog: https://www.loverslab.com/blogs/entry/9880-mortal-weapons-armors-dev-blog/

 

....Officially weird.  Like, that makes literally no sense.  But whatever.

 

I'll try the new version tonight, and see if it behaves on my system.

 

By the way, thanks for all your help with this.  You've gone far and away beyond what a lot of other authors will do to support their mods, and I appreciate it.

[jealco]

@Monoman1 So, STILL no tempering damage on my end.  Question:  What should the object health be set to on a freshly-tempered item (well-made tempering tier, in the case of Requiem)?  MWA is setting it to a object health of 1.10000, which doesn't seem to add up when I max the tempering damage per hit at 0.1000, which should detemper the weapon in one strike.

This is turning VERY frustrating.  I haven't installed DD at all on this build, which means it can't be device hiders, or a dirty uninstallation of same.

[Monoman1]

1 hour ago, jealco said:

What should the object health be set to on a freshly-tempered item (well-made tempering tier, in the case of Requiem)?  MWA is setting it to a object health of 1.10000, which doesn't seem to add up when I max the tempering damage per hit at 0.1000, which should detemper the weapon in one strike.

Tempering health in requiem varies depending on your smithing skill. At very low levels you'll only barely be able to temper something. Ideally you'll need around 20 smithing before it becomes useful. At that point you can temper an iron sword to 1.2 (which is still well-made)

https://requiem.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/MD/pages/722141189/Tempered+Item

I think the maximum depends on weapon material and type. It's a lot more complex than vanilla. 

1 hour ago, jealco said:

So, STILL no tempering damage on my end

I'm on a different PC now and had to reinstall Requiem 3.2. Initially neither durability or tempering was degrading. After exiting (to enable bug fixes) and reloading my save it started working. And now I've started 3 new games and can not find any problems. All 3 times tempering degraded right away. 

1 hour ago, jealco said:

This is turning VERY frustrating

You and me both. 

[jealco]

59 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Tempering health in requiem varies depending on your smithing skill. At very low levels you'll only barely be able to temper something. Ideally you'll need around 20 smithing before it becomes useful. At that point you can temper an iron sword to 1.2 (which is still well-made)

https://requiem.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/MD/pages/722141189/Tempered+Item

I think the maximum depends on weapon material and type. It's a lot more complex than vanilla. 

I'm on a different PC now and had to reinstall Requiem 3.2. Initially neither durability or tempering was degrading. After exiting (to enable bug fixes) and reloading my save it started working. And now I've started 3 new games and can not find any problems. All 3 times tempering degraded right away. 

You and me both. 

So...after a reload, I went back to armor and weapons losing their temper on their first strike.  Weapon shows a tempered health of 1.100.  Damage defaulted to Requiem setting of .0060 for normal attacks, .0120 for power attacks.  Smack a wall, or a wolf, or a chicken, BAM, instant weapon untempered.

 

I swear this game doesn't want me to have breakable armor in Requiem, which is where it, ironically enough, seems to belong the most...

Damnit, Skyrim, can't you just behave and work as designed for just one bloody moment?

[Monoman1]

17 minutes ago, jealco said:

So...after a reload, I went back to armor and weapons losing their temper on their first strike.  Weapon shows a tempered health of 1.100.  Damage defaulted to Requiem setting of .0060 for normal attacks, .0120 for power attacks.  Smack a wall, or a wolf, or a chicken, BAM, instant weapon untempered.

Your smithing skill is too low. 

Save game.

SetAv Smithing 20

Temper it again and it should go to 1.2. 

whack stuff.

reload your save.

 

The only advantage to tempering at that point is that it restores the durability of the item. 

[jealco]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Your smithing skill is too low. 

Save game.

SetAv Smithing 20

Temper it again and it should go to 1.2. 

whack stuff.

reload your save.

 

The only advantage to tempering at that point is that it restores the durability of the item. 

Well, I wasn't exactly counting the number of whacks, but I managed to beat that stone wall in Riverwood more than a few times before that steel maul I was using lost it's tempering.

All of this, and it's mainly that I didn't test higher levels of smithing.  Crap.

Almost feels like I wasted a bunch of your time for nothing...

[Monoman1]

46 minutes ago, jealco said:

Well, I wasn't exactly counting the number of whacks, but I managed to beat that stone wall in Riverwood more than a few times before that steel maul I was using lost it's tempering.

All of this, and it's mainly that I didn't test higher levels of smithing.  Crap.

Almost feels like I wasted a bunch of your time for nothing...

Ah don't worry about it. 

The tempering/durability not degrading sometimes on new games IS unusual and I still don't have an explanation. 

And btw well-made has more range than 1.2. I think it goes up to something like 2.1 before it becomes 'first-rate' - just in case you're wondering why 'x number of hits per level' doesn't seem to match up. 

It should go up the more your smithing goes up. 

You'll come to both love and hate Requiem. 

[Lupine00]

Was looking at Fall of the Dragonborn and had a thought ...

 

MWA mechanics could be repurposed to provide some of the "oh no my boobs won't fit in this any longer" concept that it has, plus bikinis.

 

e.g.

MWA could add an extra size to items, which is a breast size limit (node size, or SLD effective size, or SLIF effective size).

 

Then put a hard cap on the breast-size limit stat on different varieties of armor, let the player set it per:

Clothes

Light

Heavy

Bikini

 

Could also do the same with body weight, so player can choose what armors they are locked out of if they get a bit weighty.

Might even have a min weight for Heavy?

 

Those limits would cap the range of armors in the world, so it wouldn't help you to get an item resized, if it can't be made big (or small) enough, resizing won't let you wear it.

 

Would work nicely with MME and Hormones of course.

[Dojo_dude]

^ Good idea!

[jealco]

19 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Ah don't worry about it. 

The tempering/durability not degrading sometimes on new games IS unusual and I still don't have an explanation. 

And btw well-made has more range than 1.2. I think it goes up to something like 2.1 before it becomes 'first-rate' - just in case you're wondering why 'x number of hits per level' doesn't seem to match up. 

It should go up the more your smithing goes up. 

You'll come to both love and hate Requiem. 

Well, at least I found one weird thing that wasn't me not realizing just how much Requiem changed lol.

Honestly, I want the challenge.  Half the problem I had with ever playing through Skyrim was how easy combat was.  Hell, the game in general.  There's a reason Frostfall, MWA, etc. have found their way into my load order.  One day I need to add RND into the equation again, as well, but that's a whole 'nother slew of compatibility work I'll probably find myself doing.  Already cringing at having to tweak the Requiem Heavy Armory compatibility patch so it reflects True Spear Combat, which I use on HA's spears.

In the meantime, I'm finishing my tweaks to this build, so I can enjoy it for all of five minutes before adding something new to it and breaking it again.

[Monoman1]

20 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Was looking at Fall of the Dragonborn and had a thought ...

 

MWA mechanics could be repurposed to provide some of the "oh no my boobs won't fit in this any longer" concept that it has, plus bikinis.

 

e.g.

MWA could add an extra size to items, which is a breast size limit (node size, or SLD effective size, or SLIF effective size).

 

Then put a hard cap on the breast-size limit stat on different varieties of armor, let the player set it per:

Clothes

Light

Heavy

Bikini

 

Could also do the same with body weight, so player can choose what armors they are locked out of if they get a bit weighty.

Might even have a min weight for Heavy?

 

Those limits would cap the range of armors in the world, so it wouldn't help you to get an item resized, if it can't be made big (or small) enough, resizing won't let you wear it.

 

Would work nicely with MME and Hormones of course.

Hmm. I dunno about this. I think it might make things too complicated. And as MME changes your breast so much you'd have to carry around 2/3 different sets of armor and change often. Could be kind of annoying. And would the displayed name need to be changed? -> then the name would start to look very messy I think. 

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Could be kind of annoying. 

More annoying than what MME does by itself?  Surely not!

 

I admit, I'm not sure what to do about the name.

But what if the additional limitation only applied on a per armor-type (light, heavy, cloth, bikini), not per unique item?

 

Basically, set a min-max boob and weight range for each armor type, and that's an additional condition for the "fits you" test?

Then there would be no new per item stats...

 

It wouldn't be quite so interesting, but it would still allow you to create a scenario where bikinis become the only thing you can wear if your boobs are too big, or weight to high or low.

 

 

I'm not super hung up on this... It just struck me as an interesting idea that would make bikinis more useful.

[Mez558]

This has possibly been asked already somewhere, if so, sorry for repeating it.

 

What is the order of priority for Armour slots taken damage?

 

The reason I ask, during a jaunt through Bloodskaal barrow. I lost my Iron Breastplate to a frostbite spell from a Draugr Scourge. Replaced with Light Breast plate, of steel material (Tsun's armour from CT's Remodelled Armor) and carried on. However when I got to Zahkriisos, a Dragon Priest with lots of lightning attacks, I noticed this chest piece took no damage until my leather skirt, steel plate gauntletts and Steel plate boots were destroyed.
I ran the combat back a few times, even standing in his lightning cloak spell, everything else took hits except my breast plate.

 

So is there an order of damage?

If there is I would prefer if the Chest piece took it first, it's the largest piece and your torso is going to take the majority of attacks.

[Monoman1]

59 minutes ago, Mez558 said:

This has possibly been asked already somewhere, if so, sorry for repeating it.

 

What is the order of priority for Armour slots taken damage?

 

The reason I ask, during a jaunt through Bloodskaal barrow. I lost my Iron Breastplate to a frostbite spell from a Draugr Scourge. Replaced with Light Breast plate, of steel material (Tsun's armour from CT's Remodelled Armor) and carried on. However when I got to Zahkriisos, a Dragon Priest with lots of lightning attacks, I noticed this chest piece took no damage until my leather skirt, steel plate gauntletts and Steel plate boots were destroyed.
I ran the combat back a few times, even standing in his lightning cloak spell, everything else took hits except my breast plate.

 

So is there an order of damage?

If there is I would prefer if the Chest piece took it first, it's the largest piece and your torso is going to take the majority of attacks.

There is no order. It's completely random. 

The only reason I can think of why that happened is that the cuirass didn't make it into the equipped list for some reason. 

[Mez558]

13 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

There is no order. It's completely random. 

The only reason I can think of why that happened is that the cuirass didn't make it into the equipped list for some reason. 

I will try to test that some more. I'll return to that save with some vanilla armour and custom armour. As I said, the Iron BP (which was remodelled) broke long before my boots did, as did the leather skirt, which was expected.

 

[Monoman1]

12 minutes ago, Mez558 said:

I will try to test that some more. I'll return to that save with some vanilla armour and custom armour. As I said, the Iron BP (which was remodelled) broke long before my boots did, as did the leather skirt, which was expected.

 

Also keep in mind armors have certain weaknesses. 

Ice magic - heavy armor are weak

Shock magic has a chance to do extra damage to all armor types

And blunt weapons are effective against your heavy armor - warhammers, maces. 

[Bushi Neko]

Just when I come rolling back.. I wind up tearing my stuff again..

So... in this one the point IS to break my stuffz. Right?

Spoiler

NOT AGAIN!!!  

Changes look good. Lets see what I can get into..

[Barzing]

Hi ! Congratz on this version !

Is it a straight upgrade ?

[Monoman1]

27 minutes ago, Barzing said:

Hi ! Congratz on this version !

Is it a straight upgrade ?

Yep. Should be. 

 

[Slorm]

Just wanted to report that the issue I had with the previous version has disappeared, latest version installs in an existing game without problem now

[KuroDesu]

I have encountered an interesting issue where my weapon degrade by 1 per hit, while armor seems to work fine. My weapons degradation rate are set to default with 1 per 200 hits (0.0005) for normal attack and 0.001 for power attack (Btw the math looks wrong XD, 1/0.0005 = 2000 and 1/0.001 = 1000.) Anyways, I am unsure if this is caused by conflicts with other mods... Could someone confirm if the same issue occurs as well?

 

Aside from this, great work! I really like the concept of this, and thanks for sharing such a great mod!

 

Edit: Noticed something else: The degradation rate becomes correct after tempering... So nevermind I guess