Mortal Weapons & Armors

[Monoman1]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Still dropping bikinis mostly for men.

I'd say one in ten are for women.

These aren't possibly containers that have already been initialized by the older version maybe? Try locations/chests you definitely haven't been to yet. 

 

Re: Red Eagle's Fury

Same thing happened with the jagged crown. While it's fine to add immunity to the jagged crown, Red Eagle's Fury on the other hand isn't something you have to 'hand in' (I think?) so it's a little more tricky.

[Lupine00]

13 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Same thing happened with the jagged crown. While it's fine to add immunity to the jagged crown, Red Eagle's Fury on the other hand isn't something you have to 'hand in' (I think?) so it's a little more tricky.

If you do the quest, you can upgrade it to Red Eagle's Bane, which is better. REF isn't a bad sword, but it's not a game breaker either. I don't see any issue with making it always immune.

 

Now I've set my weapons to potentially have a lot more durability, they last a workable length of time.

 

 

An alternative to cheaty player gear that never breaks is theft or confiscation, and maybe MWA shouldn't be worrying about such issues, and let other mods worry about it?

Which is to say, theft or confiscation - were you to add more ways for it to happen - feels like something from SLS, which does already confiscate anyway.

[Lupine00]

19 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

These aren't possibly containers that have already been initialized by the older version maybe? Try locations/chests you definitely haven't been to yet. 

Dropping off NPCs in dungeons, and found in dungeon chests.

Not dungeons I had entered previously.

 

I checked my ESP, and it has a keyword on everything, and has for some time now. It's the right ID, and is getting the keyword from SLS.

 

When I looked at an armor in SLAX, it showed no bikini value on the bikini items, which is ... suspicious ... but that might be down to SLAX showing the StorageUtil tag state rather than the keywords. I should look into that and make it set StorageUtil automatically if the keyword is set.

 

[Monoman1]

16 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Dropping off NPCs in dungeons, and found in dungeon chests.

Not dungeons I had entered previously.

 

I checked my ESP, and it has a keyword on everything, and has for some time now.

I didn't start the game with it like that though...

 

Seems plausible that the armors are in my save from the game startup and the ESP changes that were made later make no difference...

However, I've changed armor ESPs mid-game and had a result before.

 

When I looked at an armor in SLAX, it showed no bikini keywords, which is ... suspicious ... but that might be down to SLAX showing the StorageUtil tag state rather than the keywords. I should look into that.

MMmm no. In my experience changes to the keywords of forms are across all forms, regardless if the object reference was created before or not. 

The only reason for what I said before is that the 'fit' is attached to the object reference and if the ObjRef has not been destroyed yet (the fit does still exist on the ObjRef) then the current fit is used, so the keyword won't be checked. At least from memory that's how it works - The item will need to pass out of the mods systems first before skyrim will delete the ObjRef and the fit will be erased/reset along with everything else - durability etc. 

I'll have to double check it later. I have seen male items with female only armors in my own game after updating but just assumed the above reason was why. I don't think I've seen it NOT working in dungeons I haven't been to yet. 

[Corsayr]

For the record I have seen no male bikinis since the patch and I currently, for testing, have the number of bikinis added to random chest set to ludicrous. ? 

 

Seriously,  every rando chest is like a wifu youtuber bikini try on video-paloosa ?

[Monoman1]

@Corsayr

You attached both keywords (FemaleFit and BikiniArmor) to your keywords didn't you?

It shouldn't make any difference but I only added BikiniArmor. I'll do a dungeon speed-run later to test. 

[Corsayr]

2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

@Corsayr

You attached both keywords (FemaleFit and BikiniArmor) to your keywords didn't you?

It shouldn't make any difference but I only added BikiniArmor. I'll do a dungeon speed-run later to test. 

True I do use both

[Lupine00]

18 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

ou attached both keywords (FemaleFit and BikiniArmor) to your keywords didn't you?

It shouldn't make any difference but I only added BikiniArmor. I'll do a dungeon speed-run later to test. 

I only have bikini armor, do not have female fit.

 

I have a suspicion adding it will fix the problem ... but ... shouldn't be necessary?

[Monoman1]

49 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I have a suspicion adding it will fix the problem ... but ... shouldn't be necessary?

Shouldn't be, no. 

I don't have the _MWA_FemaleFitOnly keyword on my bikini armors either, Only survivals bikini armor keyword. 

I took a speedrun through bleak falls and none of the bikini armors were male and there are 6/7 chests in bleak falls. 

 

You mentioned picking bikinis off of Npcs. How are they being added exactly? If you're taking from an Npc then the armor is assumed to fit the Npc unless it already has an initialized fit. But bikinis from containers should definitely be female. 

The only other thing I can think of is the basic overriding of the armor record by maybe a patcher type mod. Requiem for the indifferent has caught me out a few times with this. (I know you don't use requiem but maybe something else?)

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

You mentioned picking bikinis off of Npcs. How are they being added exactly? If you're taking from an Npc then the armor is assumed to fit the Npc unless it already has an initialized fit. But bikinis from containers should definitely be female. 

Male NPCs, so they dropped male bikinis. But this was rare. I mainly got bikinis from chests.

 

Since I put the female fit only flag in the ESP, I've only seen female bikinis, even when I'm looting men.

 

I have the drop rates turned up quite high, like Corsayr, but rarely see bikinis in chests, super-rarely on NPCs, and never on merchants.

Do I need to enable something more?

 

I've rebuild the lists, it seems to make no difference.

[Corsayr]

16 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Male NPCs, so they dropped male bikinis. But this was rare. I mainly got bikinis from chests.

 

Since I put the female fit only flag in the ESP, I've only seen female bikinis, even when I'm looting men.

 

I have the drop rates turned up quite high, like Corsayr, but rarely see bikinis in chests, super-rarely on NPCs, and never on merchants.

Do I need to enable something more?

 

I've rebuild the lists, it seems to make no difference.

Alter the % chance of each type of bikini increasing them so the % chance of no drop goes down. 

 

That will make more sense when you are looking at the MCM menu in SLS ? honest!

[Monoman1]

48 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Male NPCs, so they dropped male bikinis. But this was rare. I mainly got bikinis from chests.

 

Since I put the female fit only flag in the ESP, I've only seen female bikinis, even when I'm looting men.

 

I have the drop rates turned up quite high, like Corsayr, but rarely see bikinis in chests, super-rarely on NPCs, and never on merchants.

Do I need to enable something more?

 

I've rebuild the lists, it seems to make no difference.

Hmm. It sounds like Survivals 'Bikini entry' list is not making it into the winning override container records. 

Load your entire load order in TesEdit and check the container records in survival. Make sure it's leveled list makes it through on a few of the containers. Might be a smash thing. 

[Lupine00]

8 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Hmm. It sounds like Survivals 'Bikini entry' list is not making it into the winning override container records. 

Load your entire load order in TesEdit and check the container records in survival. Make sure it's leveled list makes it through on a few of the containers. Might be a smash thing. 

I had excluded SLS and MWA from the Smash, but TAWoBA was in it from the start, so SLS/MWA wasn't as excluded as I thought.

 

Some SLS container changes are being overridden, but not all. So, it sort of explains it, but shouldn't explain all of it. Strange.

 

A bit nervous of rebuilding a patch so far into a game, but in theory should just fix these levelled lists...

[Monoman1]

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

A bit nervous of rebuilding a patch so far into a game, but in theory should just fix these levelled lists...

Could just manually forward the records on the containers. A bit tedious but at least you could be certain. Personally, I rebuild and make changes all the time. Probably why I never make it past level 20 though

Let me know how it goes bikini wise afterwards. 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Let me know how it goes bikini wise afterwards. 

I had a lot of problems rebuilding the Smash, but eventually got it working OK.

It really came down to deleting the old patch and building it fresh, instead of using the update process - clearly, that's flawed somehow.

Another issue is that you have to be careful about patching in a way that changes what models an AA loads.

Change that in a running game, where the models have been loaded once, and it seems to cause CTD to swap them for some other model.

That's not a Smash specific problem, but I'd hand-edited AAs on the old patch, so I had to figure out those edits again on the new one.

I have it set up so future patches won't build that problem in now.

[Lupine00]

I continue to have some issues with TAWoBA. I don't know if these are new issues, or old ones that I only came across because I'm seeing more bikini pieces now.

I don't believe they're anything to do with MWA, but I'm curious if other TAWoBA users have come across them.

 

Specifically, certain Falmer heavy pauldrons cause an instant CTD if I loot them. Very reliable, 100% reproducible, and nothing intermittent about it: just those items, and always those items.

 

I looked at them in Tes5Edit, and there was nothing remarkable about them.

It must be related to the NIF they use.

 

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

Already discovered/solved?

 

I'd investigate further, but a bit pushed for time right now.

[Corsayr]

Just now, Lupine00 said:

I continue to have some issues with TAWoBA. I don't know if these are new issues, or old ones that I only came across because I'm seeing more bikini pieces now.

I don't believe they're anything to do with MWA, but I'm curious if other TAWoBA users have come across them.

 

Specifically, certain Falmer heavy pauldrons cause an instant CTD if I loot them. Very reliable, 100% reproducible, and nothing intermittent about it: just those items, and always those items.

 

I looked at them in Tes5Edit, and there was nothing remarkable about them.

It must be related to the NIF they use.

 

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

Already discovered/solved?

 

I'd investigate further, but a bit pushed for time right now.

I went through and deleted all the TAWoBA items that are not in TAWoBA Break and that seemed to fix that. I think the person that made break had similar issues and just didn't do the scrips on the bad parts.

 

 

[Corsayr]

I thought of another thing, are you using the patches? 

 

Do not use rebalance, it seems to cause a lot of issues. 

 

 

[Lupine00]

29 minutes ago, Corsayr said:

I thought of another thing, are you using the patches? 

I'm not using any of them.

 

I can't recall if my ESP is the clean original from somewhere, or was an edited one posted here.

I think it was posted here, with the bikini keywords added - but that predated female-fit-only, which I added myself.

 

It might have some slot changes made by that poster, which ... as we all know ... could cause problems.

You cannot just change the slots of an armor piece in the ESP without fixing the NIF flags too - though if it's not a replacer part you can probably get away with it.

 

 

Maybe my ESP has the slot corrected on those pauldrons by the helpful poster, and that doesn't match the NIF?

 

But my experience is that TAWoBA is a work-in-progress, and quite a mess; badly balanced, badly named, and badly slotted items with unnecessary overlaps/conflicts.

 

e.g.

Why can't I wear a tasset together with panties?

They render perfectly well together. If it's just to stop armor stacking, reduce the armor on the panties!

 

 

Or can't mix gorget with collar ... I'll never get to wear a gorget then. Shame about all those nice armor pieces.

 

And why are bikini boots measurably worse than equivalent vanilla boots, even though they cover the same amount?

There's no slot conflict between them, (or regular boots) and the thigh pieces, so both allow that extra armor stacking.

 

The effort required to review all those NIFs ... insane.

 

I can see a case for a mini bikini mod, where there are simply less kinds.

TAWoBA is appropriate for re-gearing every female warrior in the game, but overkill for player loot options.

[Corsayr]

33 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Maybe my ESP has the slot corrected on those pauldrons by the helpful poster, and that doesn't match the NIF?

If the nif and esp don't match the item is invisible in game

 

37 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

And why are bikini boots measurably worse than equivalent vanilla boots, even though they cover the same amount?

There's no slot conflict between them, (or regular boots) and the thigh pieces, so both allow that extra armor stacking.

I thing NT scaled bikini armor to be the same av if you wear all pcs, so boots are worse cuz you get thigh guards

 

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Corsayr said:

so boots are worse cuz you get thigh guards

I'm not disagreeing, but ...

... as I observed, you can mix thigh guards with vanilla boots - except in SLS bikini curse, so that doesn't really hold up as an argument outside of SLS.

It might be the reasoning that was used, but it's broken reasoning.

Thigh guards should be balanced against bikini armor as a whole, not against boots specifically.

 

If it's meaningful to attempt to balance bikini armor at all?

 

You pay a significant price in inconvenience - clicks and inventory faff, just tedious busywork - so a few extra armor wouldn't be a big deal.

In practice, you can still cap armor with bikinis, it's just more clicks. Even if you wear the rubbish boots.

 

If we want to talk balance - the mod that makes bikinis all light armor makes a lot of sense - but one stat for armor was broken anyway. It's a Skyrim design fail.

 

But if we're talking fun... I want the bikini armor to be good enough to play the game, and a bit better or worse than vanilla is all the same. I'd wear the bikini boots if they looked nicer, but they look almost exactly like vanilla boots!

 

If I can't have any stamina because I want pretty boots, that's not fun!

Or I can do it, but I have to make massive bulk keyword additions that mean that I can now sell vanilla hand and foot items to vendors as bikini parts, it spoils a feature in SLS a bit.

 

Vanilla gloves could be contraband, and cause the curse - if I could easily tell they were going to.

 

This raises another issue - sometimes you'll find your stamina is being killed, and you don't even know what item is causing it.

I was wearing some gloves I thought were 'bikini' but they weren't. But how can gloves be bikini anyway? How can a guard tell?

 

It's sort of stupid. For boots, gloves and headgear, it should go on sexy or slooty, bikini flag shouldn't even be valid on those items.

Bikini flag should only apply or be needed for "body" items.

 

Conflating boots that came with TAWoBA with 'bikini' is a broken reason, because there is nothing special about those boots apart from their sub-standard armor values. They often have the exact same coverage as vanilla boots. Same with the gloves.

 

I can flag boots from any other mod as bikini.

But why should I have to?

 

It makes no sense. Unless somebody with a master's degree in nonsense can explain to me what bikini gloves are?

There's clearly no such thing!

That's why SLAX doesn't offer you the chance to set a bikini flag on BOOTS, only high-heels - because that should be the flag that makes a difference to boots. Mods shouldn't have to grub through every single slot on the PC looking for flags, and wearing some sexy boots shouldn't render your entire outfit sexy either. Slot checks are extremely slow and costly, and they should be minimised if they can.

 

Letting boots or gloves be flagged bikini taints the entire WornForm check with bikini when the character is not wearing a bikini.

This then forces individual slot checking, which is a fraught business for bikinis that are in variant slots.

The answer is don't flag everything bikini. And don't require that. Use it wisely.

 

And those guards roll their eyes at me  

 

 

So to sum it up:

 

1) clarity - a display in the MCM that shows - by any practical means - what items are considered bikini-curse friendly are what are not, would be a big help.

 

2) immersion - only body items (bras, panties, nipple-covers, one-piece suits with a bikini look, etc) should depend on the bikini flag to be curse friendly or legal by license.

 

3) visual appeal - slooty/sexy flag should determine what guards will allow - regardless of bikini - the guards are judging based on what they like the look of, and a "bikini" armor that looks like a tank should not count for license purposes.

 

4) curse - for the curse, at least boots should be free-for-all. Wear any boots, curse doesn't care.

 

5) balance - for balance, any gear that has too many AP for its slot could be considered non-curse-friendly, and contraband. This would be good for later game, where your armor would really be impaired. Or you could just buy an armor license...

[Lupine00]

And the corollary to this bikini curse issue...

 

I'm only bothered by this because I chose to go bikini license only to make my play harder.

I put the armor license price up to infeasible, so I can't buy one, except maybe a short term one for emergency.

 

If you have reasonably priced armor licenses, then the whole bikini thing collapses and there's no reason to put up with all that bother.

 

 

An option to make armor licenses (or other types too) unavailable at times or for reasons, would make this play more interesting.

[Lupine00]

While I'm on this... A bug in licenses...

 

I had (long) current licenses for armor/magic/weapon with 2 days left on them.

 

I bought new licenses, knowing I'd lose two days of value on the old licenses, but worth it not to get stripped coming into town in a week.

 

I bought bikini, magic and weapon licenses, these were long, short and long respectively.

The bikini license was new - had no bikini license.

 

• My new (long) bikini license was for 28 days - correctly.
• My new (short) magic license was for 7 days - correctly.
• My new (long) weapon license was for 5 days ... 5 days?!

 

Five? Where did it get that from? I paid "long" price and got a five day license. (Basically 3 more days than I had already).

I still had the other weapon license with 2 days left on it.

 

 

So, it seems in some case (maybe weapons only), if you buy a long license, while you already have one, you might get some weird duration on the new long license?

 

 

I just put it down to RP, and decided that the guard cheated me "Because women are too stupid to check their paperwork properly or understand calendars anyway."

 

Or was that the actual intent?  

[Monoman1]

I'm sort of skimming here as I don't have a lot of time but:

 

1. I've decided to exclude gauntlets, helmets and boots* from the bikini curse. I'll say, however, that I am concerned about armor rating balance by this move. I think it might be OP as hell. 

*Boots - I might make the requirement that they are heels for the curse at least for armored boots. Even though that doesn't make a whole lot of sense as regards the curse. 

 

2. Licence expiry - have you tried dropping the offending licences and pick it back up. All licences use the same functions for expiry so I'm not sure what happened there but I think dropping will help. Might be something about buying a new licence when you already have one. 

 

3. BTW you can use clothes boots no problem with the curse. Clothes aren't checked in any slot except body. 

 

4. Armor mods are a mess in general in my experience and balancing is required in 95% of mods and yes I have seen crashes with stock bikini parts. Pain. In. The. Ass. But there is nothing I can do about any of this. 

 

5. I not sure I agree with the assertion that the bikini flag should only apply to the body slot. I have many items I would consider conservative clothing that don't occupy the body slot. 

 

6. I've only been aware of SLAX being out for a week or that. But I think you understand that I can not depend on a user wanting to install another mod (experience has taught me) so I have to provide flags of my own. I will of course be adding support for SLAX so:

How can I check that SLAX and not SLAR is installed?

And what should I check to determine if an item is:

A) a bikini part that will satisfy the bikini curse

B) a body clothing item that would be considered slutty enough to not trigger the bikini curse. 

C) an armor item that MWA should fit to females only

 

There are so many disparate armor description systems that it's not something that's going to be done overnight. I alone have 3 off the top of me head (STA, MWA, SLS)

 

7. I might see if I can add extra Frostfall warmth to the half naked cover as your bikini experience increases. 

 

8. Please be patient. Time is not a friend of mine. 

 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

2. Licence expiry - have you tried dropping the offending licences and pick it back up. All licences use the same functions for expiry so I'm not sure what happened there but I think dropping will help. Might be something about buying a new licence when you already have one. 

I think I found another issue too.

 

If you buy two licenses in quick succession, you seem to be able to start to buy the second license before the first finishes processing, and it simply gets lost altogether in that case.