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Mod Case Study: Sexy Bandit Captives (Part 1 - Initial Review and Cleaning)


Happy Saturday everyone! Our snap poll yesterday ended with Sexy Bandit Captives winning, so we'll focus on getting this one up and running today. If you recall our last look at this mod, we found a lot of technical problems in it that we're going to need to address before the mod can integrate into my build. We'll be doing this is a full-scale mod case study, so I'll be breaking down the process step by step and going into more detail than usual.

 

Nerd Time

Spoiler

Before we start, let's do our daily Star Trek lore review. Our numbers today are 1787 and 1736.

 

  • NCC-1736 was part of the Achernar class authorization of Stardate 5930. She was originally planned as U.S.S. Quindar. According to Ships of the Star Fleet, she was commissioned in 2265 and later refitted to Endeavor specifications in 2282. FASA indicates that she commissioned as U.S.S. Ticonderoga in 2255 (as an Achernar), and was still in the process of upgrading to Endeavor specifications in 2286. Finally, Star Fleet Battles lists her as Kursk and indicates she was a CB some time after 2280. FASA does not provide any further history on this ship in its TNG sourcebook. If I had to guess, I'd say that Quindar and Kursk were interim names and Ticonderoga was the real name she commissioned under. She was built as an Achernar in 2265, then went in for refitting to Endeavor in 2280. She was scheduled to complete the refit in 2282, but this was repeatedly delayed and at some point morphed into an upgrade to CB specifications. By 2290 she was back in service (or at least the Klingon Empire thought she was) and she was featured in war planning exercises at the Elite Command Academy on Qo'noS. We don't know Ticonderoga's fate, though if she survived long enough its likely she refitted to CX and then decommissioned some time around the 2320s.
  • NCC-1787 was planned as U.S.S. Pari as part of the big Achernar order in 5930. In the Prime Universe, it doesn't appear that she was ever built. In the Kelvin Divergence, this NCC was used to order a replacement for U.S.S. Newton (NCC-1727) some time after 2258 but before 2262. She was a Newton class dreadnought similar to 1727.
    image.png.99375bbe3d51153b838721c8faa81540.png
  • Like the Einstein class, the Newton class also exists in the Prime universe, though possibly only as a single ship. While the Bon Homme Richard authorization planned 1727 to be U.S.S. EssexEssex was eventually reprogrammed as an upgrade to NCC-1697 and 1727 was reverted to an earlier program aimed at replacing the now-obsolete Nimitz class dreadnoughts. It appears that this ship was originally planned to be U.S.S. Littoria and would have given that name to the class. However...
  • U.S.S. Newton, NCC-3822, was initially authorized as a Keppler class fleet tug on Stardate 3640. We don't know exactly when she was originally meant to be built, but its likely the construction period was roughly concurrent with the Bon Homme Richard cruisers. At the same time, we know that U.S.S. Newton actually completed as a BHR cruiser under NCC-1951 and participated in the Klingon War of 2256-2257. Based on the lore from the Four Years War period of a large number of BHR cruisers coming online to fight the Klingon invaders, I suspect that the under-construction 3822 was finished as a hodge-podge auxilliary cruiser that looked something like the SSD below. It may have had 2-3 photon torpedo tubes (Drone-A launchers, not "hot" photons with warp power charging and stasis chambers) added similar to other auxilliary heavy cruisers, but it would have fallen short of a 'native built' BHR in capabilities, even if its likely she did have the phaser refit from launch.
    image.png.8021aaaa152684e4570efdc72a0ed907.png
    We know that this ship fought in the Klingon War of 2256-2257, but given her limited capabilities and the fact that the lead ship for a new class was named after her, it's safe to say that she was destroyed in the war and that Newton 1727 was renamed in her honor. 

 

Getting Started - Assessing The File Contents

Spoiler

Before we start editing anything in this mod, we want to start by looking at the file contents in MO2. You can also use Vortex for this purpose, but in my experience MO2 is better suited for detail oriented modding, especially in terms of managing assets. This mod has a FOMOD installer, so we'll click through each screen to make sure all of our options are set up the way we want them.

 

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We'll be installing the KS Hairdo, UNP body version, since we have BHUNP bodies in my setup. Once its installed, we'll click the check box next to the mod to activate it. Immediately, we can see from the icons next to it, this mod has asset conflicts.

 

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We'll right click on the mod and then click the "information" button so we can learn more.

 

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In the "conflicts" tab, we can see which files are interacting with other mods. Most of them are just conflicts with Skyrim itself, and the last one is a redistribution of an asset from The Eyes of Beauty. Those conflicts we'll let go through without any special management. But the conflict with the Skyrim Particle Patch for ENB is one that, just to be safe, we'll manage. We want the particle patch to win, so let's right click on fxglowspotlinear.dds and choose "hide." 

 

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Reviewing The Plugin

Spoiler

Now let's look at the plugin. We'll use SSEEdit for this, but even before we go into it we can see that this mod is an uncompacted plugin. We'll want to look at its record count to see if its a candidate for converting to a compact, ESL-flagged plugin in order to reduce its use of load order space. 

 

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After we load up everything in xEdit, let's click on Sexy Bandit Captives and see what it has to offer.

 

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So this mod has 9547 records. That's enough that converting it for ESL will require some work. Moreover, this mod recently restarted active development, so we'll leave it be for now. Once the mod stabilizes, it might be feasible to chop it into more than one part and then flag each piece separately. Even though it would result in more plugins, if they all fit into the reserved space for compact plugins, it'll still free up the E9 load order slot for another large mod. But that's a project for another day!

 

One of my main rules for modding is to never trust the author to get it right. I wish I could, but in my experience, even top tier mod authors let dirty edits or errors pass through into their products. So we're going to fully scrutinize and clean this mod before we do anything else. There are five main cleaning activities we need to do, in this order:

 

  1. Check for errors and fix them
  2. Check for deleted records; we need to undelete and disable these records (UDR). 
  3. Check for identical-to-master records; we need to remove these
  4. Check for deleted navmesh; we need to repair these in the Creation Kit.
  5. Check for corrupted navmesh edge links; we can fix these in xEdit.

 

 

Checking for Errors and Deletions

Spoiler

 

To check for errors, we just right click on the plugin and choose "check for errors." Fortunately, the report comes back with no errors!

 

 

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Next, we need to fix any deleted records. To do this, we need to filter the plugin for cleaning. Here's a summary of how to do this from the last case study:

 

Now let's look at the cleaning report. We know the mod has at least one dirty entry from that odd deletion with an editor ID. As an aside, if you want to follow this step you need to do a couple of things. 

 

First, in MO2 you need to add a specific argument to the SSEEdit executable, as shown below:

 

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This will enable some additional options in the SSE Edit menus. As illustrated below, two different settings need to be checked in order to enable manual cleaning. 

 

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With that done, let's filter this mod for cleaning and see what comes up on the undelete-and-disable-references report.

 

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Well, there's good news and there's bad news, isn't there? The good news is that other than navmesh, there's no deletions. The bad news is that this mod has 15 deleted navmeshes. That's really unacceptable and we are going to have to go back and fix every one of these later. For now, however, we'll just write down those error messages and save the repairs for our next chapter.

 

Checking for Identical-to-Master Records and Fixing Navmesh Edge Links

Spoiler

Next, let's check for Identical to Master Records, but right clicking and choosing the option shown below.

 

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Fortunately, there was very little in the way of problems here. It appears that this mod contains a wild ITM of the basic battle axe, which in turn injected an unnecessary header into the file. The ITM report removed both of these.

 

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Even though we need to do a bunch of navmesh repair, let's do some preliminary fixes on the edge links. A mod having deleted navmesh pretty much guarantees it'll have edge link problems too, since if the author didn't fix the deletions, they certainly didn't fix the edge links. We'll look at these by going into the script menu and choosing "Skyrim - Clean Navmesh Edge Links"

 

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The result is pages and pages of this stuff:

 

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We'll need to go back and do this again once we repair the navmesh deletions, because that'll almost surely reveal more issues. 

 

Previewing The Conflicts

Spoiler

Our next order of business will be repairing the busted navmesh, but let's briefly filter this mod to look at conflicts and get a general idea of what else is going on with it.

 

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Here's what we see after we filter it:

 

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So we've got all kinds of conflict. Some of it is top-level cell data, like SwindlersDen01, which contains information about lighting, music, encounter zone assignments, and so forth. This is a routine issue that we see all the time in mods and it's nothing to worry about. We'll cover patching them in future volumes.

 

Underneath the top-level cell data, we have object references and ACHR references (placed NPCs). These require a little more analysis since based on context we may let other mods wipe out data, selectively, from Sexy Bandit Captives. In other cases, like the one shown below, we'll create a patch to merge together two different mods' changes.

 

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The Form ID lists are a similar case - we just need to patch together all the different edits so no mod loses any of its functionality.

 

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The locations are an interesting case; location records are one of the rare records that the game patches up automatically. See the yellow boxes below? We'll look at these for educational purposes, but they almost never require special attention. However, other records do need attention, and we don't want to neglect them since they can result in problems ranging from cosmetic issues (like here) to full-on loss of function (in the second screen shot, failing to patch this record would break Lawbringer for that location).

 

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The cure disease effect is another one where we need to patch the record if we don't want to choose between one mod or another. The effect adds new Sexy Bandit Captives related functions to the Cure Disease potion, but in doing so it reverts changes made by CACO. By patching it, we'll ensure that both mods work.

 

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The packages and statics are similar cases that need to be patched together for multiple mods. Finally, there's the worldspace records. Those are just like the interior cell records we talked about earlier, though they also contain the broken navmesh.

 

The Epic Quest For Screenshots

Spoiler

That's it for today! Tomorrow, we'll clean the defective navmesh and then start working through the conflicts. Before we wrap up, however, let's visit some of the mod locations and see how the new captives look.

 

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This is a pretty big red flag, reminiscent of the code that caused outrage with Maximum Carnage a while back. As someone who has to start many new games at short intervals, nuisance code like this can be a real problem, and we'll be discussing how to mitigate or remove content like this in the future.

 

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Accepting the EULA shown in the first screenshot causes visual and tactical effects in a scripted sequence. Under other circumstances, this would look nice, but in this context its problematic. Moreover, can you imaging how much time the author spent putting this nuisance feature into this mod? Surely it would have been more than enough time to fix all the deleted navmesh. Honestly, I find features like this pretty upsetting - like, I'm almost ready to uninstall this mod right now and take it off my modding plan. But since its a case study mod, we'll see it through to the end.

 

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We'll need to pay very close attention to how this soft mod support function works as it might require work to make it compatible with compacted versions.

 

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"Hey Lucan, nice painting but where's the damn note that starts this mod?!"

 

"Uh, I don't know Mr. Dragonborn. I'm sure it's around here somewhere."

 

"I guess I'll need to find it in the CK later in the series to fix it so that it's actually accessible."

 

"That sounds like a great idea, Mr. Dragonborn. Now, how'd you like to help me find a golden dragon claw??"

 

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Ah, I see. It's upstairs in Lucan's bedroom. As part of this series, we'll discuss how to place a copy of the quest-starting note in the Alternate Perspective starting room to avoid a use case where this mod's content gets suppressed for an extended period of time if the user doesn't happen to find the note.

 

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We'll also need to make sure the Resting Pilgrim Inn's barkeeper qualifies to advance this quest. I'm sure having to jump through a lot of hoops just to get screen shots of the captives, huh?

 

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"Sorry Dragonborn, talking to me isn't enough to enable the mod either. You need to go to the Pale and talk to someone there."

 

"Uh, thanks Hulda. Guess I need to get my heavy winter cloak ready."

 

"Good idea. Though if you're feeling chilly, Saadia could get you warmed up before you leave."

 

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"There have been some rumors." 

 

"Thank you for gracing me with six whole syllables, my Jarl. I too have heard rumors that this mod actually contains Sexy Bandit Captives."

 

"Here is what is known."

 

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Hopefully this means that, at a minimum, the mod is enabled for Frostmere Crypt now. Let's go take a look at it.

 

After all that work, I was able to find one of the captives inside Frostmere Crypt. Her outfit seems to be fitting well, though I'm not sure what's up with that magic visual on her. I can't really say if that's functioning as intended or not. 

 

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I visited a few more location that this mod touches, and they did not have any captives, so it looks like this game doesn't actually touch the game world except through tis narrative. I'm unclear if the rest of the content opens up in response to finishing the Frostmere quest or if all of the locations are locked down behind a setup similar to the bounty questions - that's something we can dig into deeper as we move forward with integrating this mod.

 

I'm not going to lie, my first experience with this mod raised some red flags. I'm not willing write it off yet, but between the way it started up and the "legal notice" on its download page, I'm not anticipating an especially modder-friendly experience working with this title. However, dealing with the parlor school of mod authoring is, for better or worse, an essential part of the hobby, and we'll discuss its implications for getting this mod to work properly in a complex load order at the appropriate time.

 

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Tomorrow we'll continue this series by walking through the process of repairing the navmesh. If time permits, we'll also do our first round of conflict resolution. See you soon!

 

Edited by gregaaz

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A little preview of what's to come, this mod contains PEX files distributed without source code that also contain hardcoded references to other plugins. We'll be discussing this at length in future sessions, but this is a major compatibility challenge for advanced setups that have user-compacted files or merged plugins. Stay tuned, and we'll discuss how to prevent a feature like this from breaking.

 

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This is a pretty big red flag, reminiscent of the code that caused outrage with Maximum Carnage a while back. As someone who has to start many new games at short intervals, nuisance code like this can be a real problem, and we'll be discussing how to mitigate or remove content like this in the future.
Accepting the EULA shown in the first screenshot causes visual and tactical effects in a scripted sequence. Under other circumstances, this would look nice, but in this context its problematic. Moreover, can you imaging how much time the author spent putting this nuisance feature into this mod? Surely it would have been more than enough time to fix all the deleted navmesh. Honestly, I find features like this pretty upsetting - like, I'm almost ready to uninstall this mod right now and take it off my modding plan. But since its a case study mod, we'll see it through to the end.

I thought pretty much the same (well not the uninstall thingy, that came after you mentioned the bugs you found in your blog ... yeah should've checked for those myself ... I did improve since then ... a little ^^), but all the time invested into such a totally useless and annoying "feature". IF I want to modify your mod, I will.

Even the Berne convention regulations do not override "fair use regulations" (assuming something like that exist in your country of residence) for private usage (if they did, you would not be allowed to scribble notes to the side of a book, because that's essentially changing the protected work).

Sad thing is, it kinda dampens my hope the Author(s) of that mod will take well to this blog or feel inspired by it to fix the problems with their otherwise promising mod. A shame, but well maybe I will get surprised in that regard.

Anyway looking forward to the next installment, though truth to be told I'm likely not following suite. I'm more likely to wait and see if the mod gets fixed or if not go without it. It's just looks like more hassle than it is worth to me.

Edited by Talesien
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A previous version of this mod was stolen by a bandit site and claimed by them as their own.

I fully sympathize with the author not distributing source because of this. Same for the legal notices.

That said - authors come and go - and I won't install a mod in my load order that does not have source.

It is just not worth the risk of abandonware, no matter how good the mod is.

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Very informative read. It shows in great detail how founded in reality my own  internal concerns for this mod were, as far as integrating it would be. Thank you for looking into this. 

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1 hour ago, Talesien said:

I thought pretty much the same (well not the uninstall thingy, that came after you mentioned the bugs you found in your blog ... yeah should've checked for those myself ... I did improve since then ... a little ^^), but all the time invested into such a totally useless and annoying "feature". IF I want to modify your mod, I will.

A.) Even the Berne convention regulations do not override "fair use regulations" (assuming something like that exist in your country of residence) for private usage (if they did, you would not be allowed to scribble notes to the side of a book, because that's essentially changing the protected work).

B.) I'm likely not gonna tell the Author(s) so they will never find out, much less be able to do anything about it. Well, and then I'm a FOSS fan who is likely to modify such a file even if I find no real need to do so, just to do it and spite that message. ?

Sad thing is, it kinda dampens my hope the Author(s) of that mod will take well to this blog or feel inspired by it to fix the problems with their otherwise promising mod. A shame, but well maybe I will get surprised in that regard.
Anyway looking forward to the next installment, though truth to be told I'm likely not following suite. I'm more likely to wait and see if the mod gets fixed or if not go without it. It's just looks like more hassle than it is worth to me.

 

After my initial outrage wore off, I rephrased my reaction to be a little more neutral in tone, but that experience was pretty concerning. Up until that point, I was feeling pretty confident about the mod, but when I saw that - and when I subsequently discovered some of the other closed source related problems in this one, it was dismaying. 

 

And then of course there's the script problems, which showed up in the papyrus log. Pages and pages of issues like this:

 

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I don't mind doing the leg work to fix glitchy scripts, but its so much more difficult when you add the other layers of frustration that come with having to decompile pex files. And I agree, the way the author presents the mod to the community and the way they communicate on the mod page, it does concern me a little about their reaction. I write these case studies to help people become better modders, but I recognize that it can cause hard feelings with the mod author and in a case like what I'm seeing here I don't see a good way to avoid that without downplaying or straight up not covering the technical issues I'm seeing.

 

1 hour ago, fred200 said:

A previous version of this mod was stolen by a bandit site and claimed by them as their own.

I fully sympathize with the author not distributing source because of this. Same for the legal notices.

That said - authors come and go - and I won't install a mod in my load order that does not have source.

It is just not worth the risk of abandonware, no matter how good the mod is.

 

Yeah, I feel the author's pain. A long time ago, in a different community, someone stole my work and de-attributed me off of it. It was a hard decision to file the DMCA report, knowing that the collateral damage from the takedown would make it harder for the community to sustain its legitimate activities, but on the other hand, what else was I supposed to do? But putting in nuisance code like this or closed-sourcing the scripts is just punishing the legitimate users. If someone wanted to publish a pirated copy, the same tools that legitimate modders use to fix problems in the mod can facilitate unethical shenanigans. There are better ways to deal with plagiarism than punishing the community.

 

59 minutes ago, yorpers said:

Very informative read. It shows in great detail how founded in reality my own  internal concerns for this mod were, as far as integrating it would be. Thank you for looking into this. 

 

I'm not quite ready to give up on this one, but I have an ominous feeling that if I don't make a major breakthrough in finding and addressing the root cause of all these problems - or at least addressing them without having to recompile hundreds of closed source scripts - that my patience is going to run out before the problems all get addressed.

 

And that's a shame, because this is a good mod. I still have some older versions (in the archives for some of my older Skyrim builds) from before it went closed source that I might fall back on, but it always dismays me to have to turn my back on the latest features and additions. It's kind of a lose-lose situation either way :( 

 

Glad you found it informative though! I'll stick with it, at a minimum, through the navmesh repair because that's a topic I think the community really benefits from having more exposure to and examples of.

Edited by gregaaz
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17 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

I'm not quite ready to give up on this one, but I have an ominous feeling that if I don't make a major breakthrough in finding and addressing the root cause of all these problems - or at least addressing them without having to recompile hundreds of closed source scripts - that my patience is going to run out before the problems all get addressed.

 

And that's a shame, because this is a good mod. I still have some older versions (in the archives for some of my older Skyrim builds) from before it went closed source that I might fall back on, but it always dismays me to have to turn my back on the latest features and additions. It's kind of a lose-lose situation either way :( 

 

Glad you found it informative though! I'll stick with it, at a minimum, through the navmesh repair because that's a topic I think the community really benefits from having more exposure to and examples of.

I always wanted to try it back in the day, but never got around to it. Now I have quite the load order that I really don't want to introduce something like that into. Getting a 1000+ plugin list to behave properly isn't easy, as you obviously know. I've kind of developed a very strict installation policy because of it. 

 

Navmesh repair will definitely peak my interest.?

 

I have my own mod that I need to FINALLY AT SOME POINT go back and fix navmesh in. The first mod I ever made turned into this behemoth. 

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Went from a small room...to a house...to a house with a dungeon...to a house with a dungeon to another dungeon....to a world space half the size of solsthiem with an underground system that I think is bigger than blackreach.

 

Mistakes were made though and I destroyed an entire cell in blackreach that I have later fixed. Some deleted navmesh remains though. Not bad really for learning creation kit as I go.? I thought I lost the mod for years until I downloaded net script framework and realized all the crashes my mod was throwing off were related to textures I had made saved in 1444x1444 that worked back in LE but not in SE.

 

Kind of a shame I never finished the mod. The last thing I learned how to do in CK was quests and scripting for quests. I found it so annoying I gave up on the project. Now it's just this nostalgic place I go to fight enemies that I gave like 6000 health to and one shot me if I fuck up.?

 

So yeah it would be nice to see how undeleting navmesh works. I get pathing CTD on occasion and I have always had the thought in the back of my mind that one of my deleted navmeshes in that mod might be the culprit. Either way it will be worth fixing on my end when I eventually go back to working on that mod to add occlusion planes to help with the fps drops I get in a few areas.

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My last post did not include Thanks for the work you are doing.

Following your process is a great help to me, no matter what mod I work on.

So Thanks!

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This mod is COMPLETELY GAME BREAKING if you ever try to uninstall it.  Riddled with bugs to the point that I avoid this one like the Plague!

BUT if you're going through all of the effort to try to fix this one and get it up and running for Special Edition I would like to recommend the following:

1)  A THOROUGH  UNINSTALL feature in the MCM so that way we can remove this mod if for whatever reason we want to remove it. 

 

2) For Bandit Player Characters a way for the NPC to detect if you're part of the "BanditAllyFaction" and if you are, treats you like another one of their bandit "masters"  instead of constantly begging to be rescued, and having the appropriate options to use the captive as another bandit would.   Alternatively you could have a dialogue option right at the beginning that allows you to correct this mis-conception.   "Oh... I think you got the wrong idea Girl... I'm here to use you! Now get on your knees!"  or something along those lines etc... you could have multiple options.   Maybe she tries to convince you again and you can have another alternate response "This Again!  Let me show you what you should be using your mouth for!"  etc. flavor it up.   Once this happens she then views you as another one of her captors instead of an ally of any kind. 

3) punishment/Dance for me/service modes that you can put the captives in.  (I.E. they will serve you complimentary drinks or skooma or offer "services" etc.). 

 

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