Quote

Especially once you download the patched version in the comments of said mod.

There's a patched version? Do you happen to have a link handy?

Edit: I think I found it:

6 hours ago, Sidewasy said:

There's a patched version? Do you happen to have a link handy?

 

Edit: I think I found it:

 

I was actually thinking of this patch:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/31111-slaverun-20140824-enforcer-v5/?do=findComment&comment=1055276

Note: it's complete. No need to download the original version. It will overwrite everything.

Thanks.

I prefer to be a slave trader, can to train NPCs and trade slaves. Immersive quest related to some original NPCs.

2 hours ago, raven_7 said:

I prefer to be a slave trader, can to train NPCs and trade slaves. Immersive quest related to some original NPCs.

The plan (for now) is to entirely delegate the "slaver" part to another mod which is already great for that : Paradise Halls (Extended)

You'll be able to sell your PAHE slaves into Slaverim

Just recently came across this blog, and it is nice to see someone picking off if not the original mod but at least the general idea of it all. At this point, I am wary though if the mod gets done - seen enough mods just getting abandoned. So first I wish you the willpower to see it through, and that no real life issues drag you down or something!

Slaverun has always been one of my favourite mods, and so I wanna just through in some ideas, wishes and thoughts around - maybe it helps you out, inspires you or at least makes it clear what you will definatly not have in your mod. Will be a fair bit of text though I am afraid, I tried to structure it as best as possible ?

1. Thoughts on Slaverun

As mentioned, I really liked Slaverun. And hated several aspects of it. What I liked was actually that it was not simply a "framework", but that it had several characters with their own quirks and storybits. It gave the whole fucking and humiliating etc some context, and in many cases improved immersion to me that it was not just a series of fucking-animations.

I also liked stuff like the jobs you had to to, and the escalation of things becoming more and more depraved. The char was truly used and abused, mentally, physically - you were not some Dragonborn or something, but a slave-whore. Yet still there was more to do than just getting fucked x-times a day like some other mods seem to prefer. And stuff like the little "play" in Solitude, the stagecoach-questlines etc - those were really fun imho.

What however was abysmal - the often way too long dialogue-sequences. They sometimes took ages, and were also a little illogical in their writing. Not to mention the slave-girl you were supposed to care about, her mom, the preset background of your char - and then things escalated a little too quickly the first minutes. Back and forth of dialogue, first your char gives in, then disagrees again, gets whipped, then supposed to train, and suddenly were are already at fucking dogs and horses the first minutes - all in front of the city-gates...

Locations you seem already to create for these activities, so no longer a slave-bureau in the Palace Hallways - something I truly disliked as well.

I also never cared much for the arena-fighting, and the gladiator-stuff in the latest updates were also not really my cup of tea.  And the constant back and forth between quest-chars....go to Markarth, tell this to this guy, he says "NO!", go back to Pike, he sends you AGAIN to Markarth etc...absolutely painful quest-design imho.

2. General thoughts on "Slaverim"

i read through the blogs so far to get an idea of the direction. Not entirely sure yet though what to really expect. Less predetermined player-char (no Ivana, mom, family etc) surely is good though.

I hope however the mods still keeps somewhat of a story to it, an overarching idea that keeps it together. Gonna say more on that below. I also hope the plan is not too ambitious at first, and we just get a functioning "Slavecity" in Whiterun before maybe the mods branches out to other places. In fact, I'd rather have a Slave-Whiterun that is totally twisted and depraved with loads of events and scenes and stuff happening than having my char run all over Skyrim

3. Potential Story

As said above - some kind of overarching story holding it together would help in some aspects, like immersion, and context to what is going on. I am not saying this "story" needs to take front and center stage all the time, just that it is kinda "there" to explain why things happen, why the char is supposed to do that etc.

An example of what I mean: So an evil enslaving organization suddenly appears in whiterun, and we suddenly have naked women abused on the streets...why? Just because .... is of course an idea. Or maybe have somebody else responsible - like Molag Bal, the Daedric Prince of Rape, slavery, abuse etc.

The mod, chars, quests etc. could hint at various points that in the background something sinister and powerful is at work. That it is Molab Bals influence that had corrupted Whiterun without anyone actually being aware of it etc. It doesn't even need him being there and using the player char as pawn or whatever - but it could give reasons and background to potential quests and tasks given to the player?

Slaverun HAD Daedra appear as well, but never seemed to commit to it. Just an idea, but again, Molag Bal being the secret "creator" of Slaverun/rim could give lots of potential I think

4. Characters

One thing I would hope to see is characters that are not just task-givers, but have certain personalities to them, making them feel more "real". Chars that you despise, hate, fear, loathe etc. Difficult I guess in a mod, and I already complained about too much dialogue in Old Slaverun.

Yet I still think it is a powerful way to make the mod feel more interesting if all chars (slavers, neutrals, slaves) added to the mod have some kind of quirk, personality etc that could shine through when talking to the player. Some ideas on that follow, with examples/templates/archetypes:

Head of the Slaver Guild: You only see him now and then, but when he talks he comes across as cold, humourless, no nonsense. He wants money, influence, power, the fate of the slaves is of no concern to him. They are merely tools, merchandise, and he barely acknowledges them as human beings...maybe an Imperial, or Breton

Master Torturer/Slave Trainer: A strange fellow that has a tendancy to talk to his slave-victims like pets, animals. He is never rude, but rather friendly. Even when he exacts the most brutal and humiliating tortures. He would act like he is sad to see the slave failed to obey, express hope she would become better after some more training etc. Not the brute, sadistic type on the surface, but even more despicable with the way torture and brutality seems normal to him...

The Enforcer: The one who captures new slaves and returns escaped ones etc. Maybe an Orc. Brutish, totally sadistic. he loves to inflict pain. Maybe  - if indeed an Orc, he was never a chief so didn't have womeon for himself, and now lives out his power fantasies over females he can fuck and rape whenever he wants.

The moneycounter: The Guildmasters first officer. Gives tasks and quests and runs the daily business. Maybe comes across like a simple accountant or bureaucrat. Very by the numbers, maybe using lots of "complicated words" to show he is superior to not only the slaves, but his fellow colleagues as well. Maybe arrogant and snobbish, and shwoing this clearly to the dirty slave-sluts grovelling at his feet

The normal dude: A henchman, maybe a bit younger, who is kinda conflicted on all this. He is in mostly for the money, but has a hard time with his conscience, often showing pity or mercy on the slaves, though he has to be careful with it. A char like this can be useful to offer different approaches to events or quests maybe, and provide the char with information and exposition which the other chars above would NEVER share with a character like the player

Training:

I make this one hopefully a bit shorter - but training and breaking the slave should be "escalating" step by step. In the original Slaverun, we got way too fast to stuff like fucking dogs and trolls and undead.

I hope the training component is starting slowly - getting accustomed to being nude, performing sexual acts in public, whipping etc. Then regular fucking, with one man, other females, and groups.

Animals and monsters should be brought in only towards the end - I personally like it, other mod-users not so much, maybe providing an optional path...however, as I see it: fucking a dog should be one last thing of training to really hammer home the fact how low the player char is - even beneath animals. It should be like the final test and show of "force" - does the player obey and do it, does she still complain etc?

Also fucking monsters and beasts - could happen earlier as punishment. Too many complaints? Too much talking back, resisting? Have fun in the kennels.

The Mod "Maria Eden" has already some nice training sessions too in that regard (though that mod simply lacks the story-framework I would love Slaverim to have)

Deviant Devices:

Now I already understand you seem to really like the DD. Personally I jsut wanna express my hope that it might be possible to configure what a "Maid Outfit" or "Adventurer Outfit" is, maybe in MCM or something.

Its merely a personal fetish pof course, but I just HATE high heels, hobble skirts, latex suits etc. I prefer my slave-girls naked, barefoot, at best chains around their ankles and collars around their necks. So being "forced" to have the toon run around in some DD-Heels or something? Would be a true turn-off at least for me...^^

Last random thoughts:

What would be cool is if this mod (if you get it off the ground) could become kinda "modular" - not sure if it is even possible what I think of,  Inever modded. But that "Slave-Whiterun" and the training grounds etc, and the chars all are the groundwork, and other modders feeling like it could easily add additional quests and stuff. For example add a questline/slaver outpost to Riften etc.

That would be kind of cool and might be the best way to keep the mod somewhat alive even if you one day stop supporting it...

Now I am done - sorry for the wall of text!

1 hour ago, jxm said:

Just recently came across this blog, and it is nice to see someone picking off if not the original mod but at least the general idea of it all. At this point, I am wary though if the mod gets done - seen enough mods just getting abandoned. So first I wish you the willpower to see it through, and that no real life issues drag you down or something!

 

Slaverun has always been one of my favourite mods, and so I wanna just through in some ideas, wishes and thoughts around - maybe it helps you out, inspires you or at least makes it clear what you will definatly not have in your mod. Will be a fair bit of text though I am afraid, I tried to structure it as best as possible ?

 

1. Thoughts on Slaverun

As mentioned, I really liked Slaverun. And hated several aspects of it. What I liked was actually that it was not simply a "framework", but that it had several characters with their own quirks and storybits. It gave the whole fucking and humiliating etc some context, and in many cases improved immersion to me that it was not just a series of fucking-animations.

 

I also liked stuff like the jobs you had to to, and the escalation of things becoming more and more depraved. The char was truly used and abused, mentally, physically - you were not some Dragonborn or something, but a slave-whore. Yet still there was more to do than just getting fucked x-times a day like some other mods seem to prefer. And stuff like the little "play" in Solitude, the stagecoach-questlines etc - those were really fun imho.

 

What however was abysmal - the often way too long dialogue-sequences. They sometimes took ages, and were also a little illogical in their writing. Not to mention the slave-girl you were supposed to care about, her mom, the preset background of your char - and then things escalated a little too quickly the first minutes. Back and forth of dialogue, first your char gives in, then disagrees again, gets whipped, then supposed to train, and suddenly were are already at fucking dogs and horses the first minutes - all in front of the city-gates...

 

Locations you seem already to create for these activities, so no longer a slave-bureau in the Palace Hallways - something I truly disliked as well.

 

I also never cared much for the arena-fighting, and the gladiator-stuff in the latest updates were also not really my cup of tea.  And the constant back and forth between quest-chars....go to Markarth, tell this to this guy, he says "NO!", go back to Pike, he sends you AGAIN to Markarth etc...absolutely painful quest-design imho.

 

2. General thoughts on "Slaverim"

 

i read through the blogs so far to get an idea of the direction. Not entirely sure yet though what to really expect. Less predetermined player-char (no Ivana, mom, family etc) surely is good though.

 

I hope however the mods still keeps somewhat of a story to it, an overarching idea that keeps it together. Gonna say more on that below. I also hope the plan is not too ambitious at first, and we just get a functioning "Slavecity" in Whiterun before maybe the mods branches out to other places. In fact, I'd rather have a Slave-Whiterun that is totally twisted and depraved with loads of events and scenes and stuff happening than having my char run all over Skyrim

 

3. Potential Story

 

As said above - some kind of overarching story holding it together would help in some aspects, like immersion, and context to what is going on. I am not saying this "story" needs to take front and center stage all the time, just that it is kinda "there" to explain why things happen, why the char is supposed to do that etc.

 

An example of what I mean: So an evil enslaving organization suddenly appears in whiterun, and we suddenly have naked women abused on the streets...why? Just because .... is of course an idea. Or maybe have somebody else responsible - like Molag Bal, the Daedric Prince of Rape, slavery, abuse etc.

 

The mod, chars, quests etc. could hint at various points that in the background something sinister and powerful is at work. That it is Molab Bals influence that had corrupted Whiterun without anyone actually being aware of it etc. It doesn't even need him being there and using the player char as pawn or whatever - but it could give reasons and background to potential quests and tasks given to the player?

 

Slaverun HAD Daedra appear as well, but never seemed to commit to it. Just an idea, but again, Molag Bal being the secret "creator" of Slaverun/rim could give lots of potential I think

 

4. Characters

 

One thing I would hope to see is characters that are not just task-givers, but have certain personalities to them, making them feel more "real". Chars that you despise, hate, fear, loathe etc. Difficult I guess in a mod, and I already complained about too much dialogue in Old Slaverun.

 

Yet I still think it is a powerful way to make the mod feel more interesting if all chars (slavers, neutrals, slaves) added to the mod have some kind of quirk, personality etc that could shine through when talking to the player. Some ideas on that follow, with examples/templates/archetypes:

 

Head of the Slaver Guild: You only see him now and then, but when he talks he comes across as cold, humourless, no nonsense. He wants money, influence, power, the fate of the slaves is of no concern to him. They are merely tools, merchandise, and he barely acknowledges them as human beings...maybe an Imperial, or Breton

 

Master Torturer/Slave Trainer: A strange fellow that has a tendancy to talk to his slave-victims like pets, animals. He is never rude, but rather friendly. Even when he exacts the most brutal and humiliating tortures. He would act like he is sad to see the slave failed to obey, express hope she would become better after some more training etc. Not the brute, sadistic type on the surface, but even more despicable with the way torture and brutality seems normal to him...

 

The Enforcer: The one who captures new slaves and returns escaped ones etc. Maybe an Orc. Brutish, totally sadistic. he loves to inflict pain. Maybe  - if indeed an Orc, he was never a chief so didn't have womeon for himself, and now lives out his power fantasies over females he can fuck and rape whenever he wants.

 

The moneycounter: The Guildmasters first officer. Gives tasks and quests and runs the daily business. Maybe comes across like a simple accountant or bureaucrat. Very by the numbers, maybe using lots of "complicated words" to show he is superior to not only the slaves, but his fellow colleagues as well. Maybe arrogant and snobbish, and shwoing this clearly to the dirty slave-sluts grovelling at his feet

 

The normal dude: A henchman, maybe a bit younger, who is kinda conflicted on all this. He is in mostly for the money, but has a hard time with his conscience, often showing pity or mercy on the slaves, though he has to be careful with it. A char like this can be useful to offer different approaches to events or quests maybe, and provide the char with information and exposition which the other chars above would NEVER share with a character like the player

 

Training:

 

I make this one hopefully a bit shorter - but training and breaking the slave should be "escalating" step by step. In the original Slaverun, we got way too fast to stuff like fucking dogs and trolls and undead.

 

I hope the training component is starting slowly - getting accustomed to being nude, performing sexual acts in public, whipping etc. Then regular fucking, with one man, other females, and groups.

 

Animals and monsters should be brought in only towards the end - I personally like it, other mod-users not so much, maybe providing an optional path...however, as I see it: fucking a dog should be one last thing of training to really hammer home the fact how low the player char is - even beneath animals. It should be like the final test and show of "force" - does the player obey and do it, does she still complain etc?

 

Also fucking monsters and beasts - could happen earlier as punishment. Too many complaints? Too much talking back, resisting? Have fun in the kennels.

 

The Mod "Maria Eden" has already some nice training sessions too in that regard (though that mod simply lacks the story-framework I would love Slaverim to have)

 

Deviant Devices:

 

Now I already understand you seem to really like the DD. Personally I jsut wanna express my hope that it might be possible to configure what a "Maid Outfit" or "Adventurer Outfit" is, maybe in MCM or something.

 

Its merely a personal fetish pof course, but I just HATE high heels, hobble skirts, latex suits etc. I prefer my slave-girls naked, barefoot, at best chains around their ankles and collars around their necks. So being "forced" to have the toon run around in some DD-Heels or something? Would be a true turn-off at least for me...^^

 

Last random thoughts:

 

What would be cool is if this mod (if you get it off the ground) could become kinda "modular" - not sure if it is even possible what I think of,  Inever modded. But that "Slave-Whiterun" and the training grounds etc, and the chars all are the groundwork, and other modders feeling like it could easily add additional quests and stuff. For example add a questline/slaver outpost to Riften etc.

 

That would be kind of cool and might be the best way to keep the mod somewhat alive even if you one day stop supporting it...

 

Now I am done - sorry for the wall of text!

At least it is an interesting wall of text

1- Not much to say for me here as we seem to agree on most of what you said (not a fan of overused animal content nor the coliseum).  On the dialogues, I think the issue with Slaverun was that there was little to no interaction from the player.  To me, it's important to have the slave be quit while being given orders or when she has to, but I'll try not to make them too long or design a dialogue tree to have some interaction with the scene.

2- Anything that aims to replace Slaverun will have to be ambitious, and I've seen a lot of comments asking for content in city X or Y.  But it's really endgame content here, Whiterun and the mechanics are the first step.  It will take time and my code will probably be bloody at first, but Rome wasn't built in one day.

3&4- At first, I wanted little to no story.  Of course there needs to be a reason for the slavers to be here, but I wanted to avoid characters like Bellamy and the gang.  I wanted things to be really crude and have the PC be truly lonely, facing only generic NPCs that could be killed and replaced.  But I guess it could make things boring really fast.  I liked the kind of characters you described, though, so I guess a mix of interesting but distant characters could be a good compromise.  The Bellamy-romance kind of content is something that is incompatible with what I want to do.

5- It is a conflicting point.  My original plan is to seclude the player (and the other 'new slaves') in an underground training camp.  Getting out of here would be a reward for good behavior, and it makes more sense than simply releasing the player in the city after the initial training steps.  But the downside is that I have to make it reeeaally entertaining to not make the player feel trapped for too long.  A solution could be to have some parts of the training outdoors.

DD- Hehhhh I understand what you mean.  People's relation with DD is generally either love or hate.  I like the 'locking' mechanisms of DD, whereas Maria Eden approach is more voluntary if I'm not mistaken.  I'll try to make things modular and make some DD items avoidable but at first it'll be DD-only I'm afraid.  One step at a time.

To be honest, the flame to develop the mod is still there.  I'm having a lot of fun in the CK.  But after a lonely year of lockdown, I try to keep myself as much busy as possible and keep a healthier lifestyle (less wanking, more sports, reading, that sort of things).  And as I develop at work during the day, sometimes I'm just too tired to develop when back home.  It's not a death warrant for the mod, though, I just want to be clear that things will progress at their own speed, and I'll always be open for comments and suggestions in these blogs.  Well 'always' as long as I'm here, but Loverslab is a great place  

Thing with adding a story is, you risk running into Vodoo Shark territory, where the explanation generates more plot holes than the original question. My recommendation would be to just not bother explaining why the slavers are there.

On 5/2/2021 at 6:47 AM, mangalo said:

 

I also use those NPCs overhaul mods, I can understand the appeal   The thing with generic NPCs is that I don't have exclusive control on them, someone could be using some mod or play some quest involving those NPCs that could break something in Slaverim.  A fair trade-off is to include them, but not as essential parts of the mechanics.

The way I see Maid Save is first to sell you to some generic NPC (that has a home in the city), though.  For added NPCs, I'll try making them not too ugly (Kenjoka tried that too by using Apachii hair etc).

 

About the initial shaving, I'll probably only do it if I manage to shave other NPCs using scripts.  From what I've understood, it's not as simple as it sounds to change a NPC hairstyle dynamically.  If I can't force every slave to be shaved, it doesn't make sense to shave the player.

 

For the slaver part, I'll probably require the use of "Paradise Halls Extended" which is already the perfect mod for that.  The idea is to allow the player to sell captured slaves and get gold depending on their training.

I don't think so. Using slaverun also means that you can't do "break something", right? I am very fond of messing up those beautiful and famous NPCs.?
Also, I have a lot of mods, and the dialogue is very messy and heavy. I recommend using magic to perform some actions, such as enslaving or punishing NPCs, rather than using dialogue.

Slaverun remains as one of my favorite mods for the sheer amount of content and quality it has offered, so seeing an expanded version being teased is always a welcome concept even if it doesn't get off the ground.

My tastes with Slaverun tend to prioritize around Enforcer primarily, the story content could be interesting but I generally use the debug menu to cause the world to be plunged into slavery. Enforcer I find to be one of the greatest sex calling matchmakers. So while the story should focus on Whiterun or whatever, I do hope a true effort would also include Enforcer in all its greatness with options to still allow the world to be in slavery.

There are some bugs with Slaverun's Enforcer I would like to see ironed out. In the Slave/Free balance, you would think setting sex calls to be equal would result in any NPC being called, yet I found that slaves tended to still gain priority due to it being the first cycle. I also found the attire options tended not to do anything; setting an NPC to naked still resulted in them wearing boots in the same way that "naked with boots" would do. A temporary fix for both I found was to set all NPCs to slaves and give them naked slave outfits, but it would be nice to have the menu options work properly.

I am not sure it is possible, but one big flaw of Enforcer's system was that it would unequip but not remove stuff from a NPC's inventory. This most notably resulted in Enforcer stripping the NPC's hands, thus removing the weapon, only for them to reequip it at some point. It isn't visually appealing to see a bunch of NPCs that are naked but also have weapon sheathes.

Ideally it would be nice to have something in Slaverun to manage the wilderness better. I would also suggest getting rid of the same cell checks for the player that Slaverun had for this reason; modifying Slaverun to allow sex in the wilderness tended to result in a lot of errors about "player pussy being occupied" due to NPC cell detection unless said checks were removed; which I also have found to not cause any issues (not even being teleported to the giant camp).

With the expanded options, hopefully there would be nice debug settings to set all to street sluts or whatnot. Or ideally a better way would be some distribution of the different ranks, perhaps with percentage values for weight, along with configuring the outfits for each rank. I feel like the most important element for a mod like this is user customization and options; the MCM is a player's best friend and the more options the better I say. Like one thing I would hope for is the ability to change how many tokens you need to advance or if it is even possible to advance (say a -1 value).

I support a heavily script heavy area like Whiterun, but my hope is that there will be lightweight support for the world for those of us that want to make our entire world Slaverun oriented, sorta like how the original did it albeit with some limitations. I don't need loads of complex scenes (even though those would be nice to play with), just a nice generalized system. My ideal mod would be one that throws a million different options, perhaps even across multiple MCM areas, just to allow for the ideal custom setup without needing to tear apart the mod and alter a ton of code.

A little though on escape: If the mod lacks an escape feature, then it's more of a playable failure state than a quest. I'd suggest you add an escape option with the first build where the player can be enslaved. It could be something as simple as a button in the MCM that unenslaves you.

You could make the training modular. What I  mean is that you could compose the training of a training handler and several lessons, which are each quests in their own right. This would allow adding, removing or altering lessons without changing the main training handler. The same principle could also be applied to the punishments. Another advantage would be that then you could crowdsource the training scenes.

18 minutes ago, Sidewasy said:

You could make the training modular. What I  mean is that you could compose the training of a training handler and several lessons, which are each quests in their own right. This would allow adding, removing or altering lessons without changing the main training handler. The same principle could also be applied to the punishments. Another advantage would be that then you could crowdsource the training scenes.

That's something I'd like to do, but I'm not sure how to organize...  There needs to be a fine tuned balance in the initial training in the sense that I can't break the game by keeping the player jailed for too long in the grounds (otherwise people will feel trapped by the mod).  But yeah, after an initial training I'd like to have additional training as punishments etc.  

40 minutes ago, mangalo said:

That's something I'd like to do, but I'm not sure how to organize...  There needs to be a fine tuned balance in the initial training in the sense that I can't break the game by keeping the player jailed for too long in the grounds (otherwise people will feel trapped by the mod).  But yeah, after an initial training I'd like to have additional training as punishments etc.  

How about a system where the player needs to collect a number of points over the trainings to 'graduate'. The points per lesson, and the points needed to graduate could be set via the MCM. Each lesson then scores the player on a 0% - 100% scale, and the points awarded is 'score * scorePerLesson'. How the scoring would work would depend on the specifics of the lesson. Obviously something that just consists of watching a sex scene should automatically give 100%. Maybe something along the line of an etiquette lesson scoring you based on your dialogue choices.

That would allow players who want a brutal and lengthy training to set it so, and players who just want to get it over in a hurry can also do so.

I actually want something a bit similar to the original installment of slaverun, and then an on/off button for certain stuff others may not like.

I know I myself can be into stuff others may not fancy like petplay/ponyplay. It's something I want a lot, but I know that's not for everyone. Overall I just want something where I can immerse myself as a slave, even when all quests/missions are done. Perhaps have a master/mistress you can do stuff with, or your master/mistress will force you to do stuff with others, spent time tied, sleep next to their bed on the floor or in a cage, do humiliating stuff, do walk of shames, punishments, farm work, branding, forced to crawl on all fours, and what not. I would love the ability to continue such stuff at any moment, plus see other npcs going through similar experiences to some degree.

Seeing bdsm decor around towns, bdsm themed rooms and such is really good for selling that immersion of everything being enslaved. Especially if you can engage with all the stuff.

But I don't know the hurdles of these things. I have no knowledge when it comes to modding. I absolutely admire when people are able to create mods like this. It's really impressive and it just makes me so happy. Mods are the reason skyrim can remain my favorite game.

Also I noticed some say they don't like modern bdsm stuff. I personally like it, as I have a fetish for latex/leather and stuff, but I can understand some may not be as into it and or find it immersion breaking. One of my favorite mods is the rubber facility, but it lacks the ability to continue living there and engage with the content. I don't know if everyone can win here, I'm already wishing for a lot ?

Thank you for making these mods. Many of us truly appreciate it!

Hey, just a quick heads-up that you all deserve   First of all thanks for your comments, due to real life occupations I didn't have that much time to focus on modding, so having people suggest ideas is always a good thing.  In the last two months I basically tried to resurrect my broken skyrim install, and finally more-or-less managed to do so (psa: don't use file optimizers on your whole mod directory).  Special thanks to Microsoft for their broken updates which made me pull my hair when CTDing.

Good news is that I didn't lose the progress made so far, now I just need a little bit of free time

@mangalo, glad to hear from you.

On 11/14/2021 at 3:15 PM, Tempest_Art said:

Adrianne want to be Street Slut

Perhaps with the male gender being the superior gender, should Hulda and Arcadia be replaced as the owners of their businesses. Lore wise after Whiterun is taken over females that own business will be forced to hand over the deeds to their business to men. They would still work inside there, however not own it and whenever they would need to service the new owner. Also Tempest_Art, I think that Adrianne would be best to just be permanently inside the Warmaiden's as she is married to Ulfberth War-Bear. He could take on a new male apprentice to take over her job. Also with Elisif, I think her owner would depend on who you sided with during the civil war, Ulfric if you sided with the Stormcloaks (throw in Rikke as well) and Tullius if you sided with the Imperials.

It would also be nice if the world itself managed itself like the progression of this mod isn't dependent on you, such as a slaver groups actively raid bandit dens and sorcery hives and enslave both male and female enemies. Also going back to a previous idea I had was using enslaved males as Gladiators. This is where slave progression can happen behind the scenes. Male slaves initially start as gladiatorial slaves and battle other male slaves. These battles are not lethal and end with the bleedout animation. If the male looses a consecutive number of battles they would be sold into hard labor such as a farm or mine, however if the male wins a consecutive amount of battles they would be retired and sold to a dairy as a stud. Between matches the victors of the battles fought previously would have their pick of the female slaves currently living in the doghouse quarters. A price to pay when living in a place without rent. If they get pregnant, the child, when grown up,  would cost more money. Think about it like dog competitions, because their parent won this many best of breed competitions it adds to the price of the puppies born to them.

Edit:

When the slavers go out to raid those dens they could use the mod PAH Slave Cart 0.1. What need to be thought about is how large a slaver party could be and perhaps have 2 carts per party, each cart holds 5 people. The number of carts that the slaver organization has at it's disposal could depend on it's wealth, which it get's from the bets placed on gladiator slaves, leasing slaves, devious device sales, and selling slaves. Also I have another idea on what to do with rambunctious slave women. Perhaps they would be rented to inns and kept in a cage for the use when men want to have a challenge like the women are wild animals.

On 7/11/2021 at 1:19 PM, mangalo said:

 

At least it is an interesting wall of text

 

1- Not much to say for me here as we seem to agree on most of what you said (not a fan of overused animal content nor the coliseum).  On the dialogues, I think the issue with Slaverun was that there was little to no interaction from the player.  To me, it's important to have the slave be quit while being given orders or when she has to, but I'll try not to make them too long or design a dialogue tree to have some interaction with the scene.

The dialogs were ok. But i wish i could click to speed up the transaction. If you like me, and restart over and over, its quiet painful to watch dialogs end.

On 7/11/2021 at 1:19 PM, mangalo said:

3&4- At first, I wanted little to no story.  Of course there needs to be a reason for the slavers to be here, but I wanted to avoid characters like Bellamy and the gang.  I wanted things to be really crude and have the PC be truly lonely, facing only generic NPCs that could be killed and replaced.  But I guess it could make things boring really fast.  I liked the kind of characters you described, though, so I guess a mix of interesting but distant characters could be a good compromise.  The Bellamy-romance kind of content is something that is incompatible with what I want to do.

I kind of like the story. But what i did not like is the main quests are still active. So if you went to Jarl, you start automatically the main quest which feels misplaced.

And another thing was bugged me a lot was the fact that the guards, when you were a slave, harassed you with "I know you" or nudity law. I thought always as a slave you are supposed to be naked and being used in public. So that did not make sense to me.

But as far as story goes, i think to make more sense of the slave trading would be an alternative start where you are a captive from the start and not stumble into slavery.

It could be determined if you are submissive character or a dominant one. Depending on the choices you would have different outsets to progress. Well, thats just a thought anyway.

On 7/11/2021 at 1:19 PM, mangalo said:

5- It is a conflicting point.  My original plan is to seclude the player (and the other 'new slaves') in an underground training camp.  Getting out of here would be a reward for good behavior, and it makes more sense than simply releasing the player in the city after the initial training steps.  But the downside is that I have to make it reeeaally entertaining to not make the player feel trapped for too long.  A solution could be to have some parts of the training outdoors.

Mm. sounds like my thought. This would be actually great.

I think that a slaver camp should be outside the city in general. In the original mod it made not much sense for me to have the slaver trainer outside the gate. Just alone the walk back and forth. A more secluded area where the city population does not see it would make more sense.

I think there are many wishes and not everything can be realized. Its very ambitious in itself to create a mod like that. So that takes a lot of willpower to stay with the mod development. I dearly wish you the best to accomplish that. Most certainly i am looking forward to see this mod become real.

An idea about the tokens that street sluts and houseslaves will have to collect: You could make it a stamp. As in, after servicing an NPC the player gets a stamped, which could be implemented using slave tats. That would be comparable to "Slaves of Tamriel" where the slaves get the number of ore they mined marked on their chest.

My thoughts:

1)  Since you're already using Paradise Halls, you could have the slavers come from the Fellglow Slavers Camp.

2)  If you are using PAH Diary of Mine and if you want to have something similar to Bellany training the PC in how to train a slave, you could turn this into a bit of a tutorial on a very in depth mod.  Potentially by giving the PC a slave to train then walking through how different traits mean training A isn't as effective and training B is very effective.

3)  If I were making this, my quest-line quests and radiant quests would generally fall under a couple different types:

    a)  Bounty quests.  "Here is a specific target somebody wants."  That target is often a noble or some other "special" target, possibly with a guard or two, and maybe with a few other traveling companions.  You get a quest marker to go capture them.  They could be marked as essential to force a bleed-out animation so you can definitely capture them or this could be a quest that can easily be failed.  A bonus on this could be for other characters who are with them.  And maybe add a standing quest for Salonia Carvain, one of the nobles who is on the way to the wedding in Solitude and has become hopelessly lost.  That way when we randomly see her in our travels we can get a nice bonus.

    b)  Raiding quests.  "We need 5 slaves.  This bandit camp seems like a good place to get them."  In some cases this may be a suggestion and any 5 slaves will do (in fact the bandit camp may not even have enough female bandits so you may need to get the rest somewhere else).  A modification on this could be slaves who are under a specific label, since PAH saves that even if they are renamed.  Some jarls may want Stormcloak or (if you have one of the many mods that adds female Imperil soldiers) Imperial soldiers.  Some characters may want a necromancer or a pyromancer or something.

    c)  Artifact quests.  "We think there is an artifact we can use (or that somebody wants) in this ruin."  At that point it acts like a vanilla radiant quest.  Artifacts could be devious devices, devices with some curse/enchantment that the slavers want to learn, or even a new potion they can use.  If they aren't actively developing new methods they could fall behind, after all.

    d)  Crafting quests.  "Our trainers need 5 potions of potency so they can go even longer."  (regenerate magica are often called this).  "Our trainers need 3 potions of vigor for some of their longer training sessions."  (regenerate stamina).  "Our trainers need 7 healing potions for when slaves need extra punishment."  Potentially also include the special potions from recent versions of PAH Diary of Mine.

At this point the quests are very much in line with the rest of the game and what the PC is probably good at, which is probably what they'd be sending the PC to do.

4)  If I were making this, I would have the slavers send a delegation to enslave cities, because this is a political thing.  The PC could then be asked to go along, not as a member of the delegation (although a very high speech check for a male PC might allow them to join in negotiations), but instead as help.  The quest givers are literally the members of the delegation and are around town during the process (jarl's residence, central market area, inn, etc).  At this point a story can easily be told via a few quests, rather than with huge blocks of dialogue.

"Hrongar might support us, but he thinks we're all milkdrinkers.  Bring us 5 bandits from this bandit camp to show him we know how to fight."

"Avenicci has been very reluctant to help us, and we've realized why.  To solve his little problem with slavegirls, we need you to make 8 potions of potency that we'll give to him."

"Now that Hrongar is on our side, he has informed us that Balgruuf once fell in love with a noble from Cyrodiil who spurned him.  He's still bitter about her rejection.  We have discovered that she is on her way to a masquerade in Solitude, and should be traveling along the road from Falkreath to Rorikstead.  We want to give her to Balgruuf as a gift to show him what we have to offer."

"Farengar has been very helpful and has informed us of a type of ancient Nord slave suit.  He has even uncovered that there is one in this ruin.  Now that you've captured the perfect slave for Balgruuf, we want to dress her perfectly for when we present her to him.  While we train her, go get it." (since Farengar already has slave collars it's reasonable that he's on their side from the start)

Something like this would add the story that I think for many is a major draw of this mod without having a bunch of long, unskippable scenes that got very old very fast in Slaverun Reloaded (I have not been able to get the original mod to work in SSE so maybe that was different).

5)  For a male PC, I would at some point gift them with a slave to help in combat.  We could even get a choice of several different specializations.  For instance, a restoration specialist, a destruction specialist, a heavy armor specialist, or a sneak specialist.

6)  You and/or others have mentioned having levels of slavery that are largely how much people accept it.  I would also include the rules/laws in that.  If the levels are 0-4, then 0 is no slavery, 1 is there are slaves but the local women aren't being enslaved or having their rights trampled on, 2 is women have to start paying tolls and fees and stuff, 3 is women can't have businesses and have to pay large fees for freedom licenses, and 4 is all the women are slaves.  This would make it so that going from 0 to 1 is something a lot of female NPCs might be ok with or even want.  Hulda might want some more help at the inn for instance, and none of them think it will progress to 4, at least not in this hold.  This would set up for something like the Slaverun Reloaded Falkreath quest, but in a way that actually makes sense.

7)  As a reward for male PCs who do extra well (somewhat like how the Dark Brotherhood has extra rewards if you do quests just right), here's my idea for a quest to go from stages 2-3 (as I described them) in Whiterun.  "We need you to go out and bring back Hulda, Carlotta, Arcadia, and Ysolda.  They are all in violation of our new law forbidding women from owning businesses."  (note that Ysolda is basically running a business, and the rest of the female merchants have husbands)  At this point we can go talk to them and convince them to come along with an Intimidation (You need to come with us right now) or Persuasion (I need you to follow me, but don't worry, everything's fine) check.  After this is done, these NPCs are gone for a few days before they come back and do mostly their normal thing, but have a different dialogue and clothes (and potentially a male NPC/slaver's guild member hanging out who owns them and their business).  Assuming that the PC is male and has done whatever extra stuff is defined, he is given a gift, Carlotta.  Her house can then be given to him and turned into a BDSM paradise (for the PC at least.  Carlotta's opinion may not be the same, but does that matter?) and every day you can collect her profits from her, similar to what happens in marriage.  But maybe I'm the only one who thinks that specific event would be hot.

8  I would make the No Kids mod a requirement.  https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/56942

9)  I like the idea of a few dungeons that we have to clear out for special purposes.

-Perhaps one of them can then be a trap for female adventurers (similar to Rannveig's Fast, but not lethal and maybe using stun runes or something).  This one has the added bonus that we could try to convince mercenaries and adventurers we meet to go there, and maybe even meet them later after they took our advice.

-Maybe the slavers want to clear out Helgen of bandits and turn it into a "respectable" place again.  It has dungeons and a torture, I mean training room.  And it's close enough to Cyrodiil for cross border raids if they feel Skyrim needs more women to meet their insatiable lusts.  This could be a decent way to incorporate Beyond Skyrim Bruma at some point far into the future if you feel so inclined.

10)  I think this should have an alternate start.  The slave route is probably through Simple Slavery+, as others have said.  But an alternate start for a slaver PC in which you are new and your first quest is something like "we've heard about a lot of Imperial troops around Helgen and we want you to check it out and see if this is a potential threat to our organization" would make sense.  At that point upon returning and telling them that a dragon destroyed Helgen, they could ask you to spend some quality time with a slave while they send somebody else to confirm your crazy sounding story.  Or, if you do an Simple Slavery+ alternate start into this mod, they may send you there as a slave adventurer, then punish the PC for making up such a crazy story while somebody competent goes to check it out.  When it's confirmed, they don't apologize for the punishment but reinstate the PC as an adventurer slave.  And for a female PC who tries to be a slaver, telling such a ridiculous story could get the PC enslaved, and after they discover it's true, well, she's already part way through her training and addicted to the potion...

11)  If you have a mine or something for male slaves like bandits we capture, and the potion given to female slaves is cum based, why not extract that from them in the mine?  Have a few slavegirls whose job is to fill vials out of a hole in the wall or something.  If you really want to prize efficiency, put the poor miners in chastity and require them to cum by the hole 3 times a day or something.  Because the logistics of making this potion for all the slavegirls means somebody needs to do something like this, and the slavers and good citizens would probably rather be enjoying slavegirls than getting milked by them.

12)  I would have the price the PC pays and gets when buying and selling somewhat based on the slavery level of the town and the gender of the merchant.  For buying and selling from the same gender, there isn't a change, but it makes sense that if women are slaves a woman would get a worse price, and it also makes sense that a woman in an enslaved town might offer a better price to an important member of the slaver's guild in the hopes of better treatment from the guild.  Sexlab Survival has a similar mechanic, so maybe this could be handled by that mod (a potential soft requirement), although that mod is not intended to work with a male PC.

13)  At some point you could add 2 opposing factions.  One is a group trying to end slavery, who in the main quest could be an option to end slavery in Skyrim for a free ending.  The other is a group trying to make the men slaves.  Why add this second faction?  Because then we can capture, enslave, and train dominatrices.  This faction could also be a way to introduce rescue quests.

14)  Ponygirls.  This idea isn't really fleshed out beyond maybe selling pony gear and letting us outfit slaves as pack-ponies.

One thing I enjoyed about slaverun, was the ambience in the cities.  I didn't care for all the DD stuff, but the ambience of having to be careful, the potential for humiliating circumstances, (even without enslavement), was what I liked about it.  The story part didn't really make sense considering they let you off the leash, gave you weapons etc.

It would be nice if you could generate a feeling of fear for a player who isn't playing a slave.